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  • One more to go.

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    • RE: AOS S6 E2 Yes, Yo-Yo. My mistake. But one more thing - unless it was a fake cover, there's also the magazine Snowflake flips through in the truck that they stole from the convenience store. Not sure if there was a date anywhere on it.

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    • Marvelus' crazy theory.


      In Runaways, we see how Chase is an adult (a few years older, approximately 5) in Victor's time machine. What if in Season 3 or 4 the Snap takes place in the show. And all of the Runaways but Chase get dusted. This will allow Chase to grow old and the rest of the team not and will allow them to continue the show. What do you think? That would be pretty dope

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    • Longtime lurker here, pretty invested into the MCU and particularly continuity and timeline stuff. I though I'd jump in on the discussion with my 2 cents about where AoS S6 is in the timeline.

      So, the announcement by the showrunners that basically amounted to "haHA nope we ain't following the films anymore and we're not even gonna offer an explanation why!" honestly really infuriated me. You can't create a connected universe that's really closely woven and then just . . . not do that all of the sudden.

      Then I got thinking, specifically about the end of S5. Conventional wisdom dictates that S5 takes place directly before Infinity War for two reasons, yes? One, Tony Caine asks Daisy "Have you seen all this weird stuff happening in New York?" and two, many characters discuss Thanos' impending arrival on Earth. Plus, as I recall, Word of God was that the show's ending few episodes took place more or less concurrent to the movie. However, the beginning of S6 really just drives at the idea that we're pre-Snap. As pointed out previously, the chance that EVERY character would have survived is incredibly small, and even if they ALL survived the Snap, there's no way nobody would be talking about it. I know the Agents have been through a lot, but half the world disappearing? Nobody's prepared for that emotionally - Endgame's first half shows us that.

      The last direct point of contact between AoS and the main MCU timeline, as I recall, was the integration of the Sokovia Accords back in S3, so in 2016. S4 takes place a few months later after Daisy has been on the run as Quake, and then all of S5 happens after that, with S6 set a year later. Forgive me for not recalling the exact amount of time elapsed during each season, but is it possible that we truly are still pre-Snap in AoS?

      Think about it - could S4 take place largely in late summer of 2016? (a few months after the Sokovia Accords) S5 picks up directly afterwards and half of it takes place in the future, so what if the Agents returned not long after they left, placing them in early 2017? The only problem with this I can think of is that Fitz was detained for a few months, but if it was only, like, 2 months, then early 2017 still works. Then S5's second half takes place in early 2017, and that bounces us to a year later in early 2018 for S6, which is still pre-Snap.

      Of course, that still leaves the references to IW at the end of AoS S5 hanging, but "weird stuff in New York" could be a lot of different things, including the events of any of the Netflix shows. Thanos was a cosmically known, very dangerous entity. Given that it was established that the Confederacy was really just trying to take advantage of HYDRA, perhaps their hand-wringing of "Thanos is on his way!" was really just sensational to make the humans afraid and more likely to comply, and Thanos, in reality, was still a good ways off from coming to Earth.

      I'm pretty prepared for you fine people to come back with a couple good reasons this explanation is flawed, so I'm partially posting this hypothetical just so that I can know why it doesn't work. In conclusion, if it's not too much trouble, please let me know the ways in which I'm wrong. You all are awesome for the continuity work you do in this universe, and it's really, really disappointing and honestly a little gross that the showrunners of AoS have basically said "do the work for us.

      - Master Tej -

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    • Don't stress too much. No one have ever said they have stopped fromo following the films. It is just the stupid media jumping the gun... Also: "Some people move on"... In Endgame we have seen people mourning but others do not. We see people playing Fornite, kids being happy on the streets, family having kids... Restaurants, bars, etc. Also Marvel Ent. posted s video about Season 6 and there they say explicitly: "Agents are not the ones that stay in bed and cry". It is like Marvel giving us tease thst the Agents have survived the Snap. Which is not impossible at all.

      And no. We csnnot move AoS previous seasons as you suggest. Season 4 picks about 9 months after the Sokovia Accords. Then in S4 we have an explicit date which cannot be ignored about April 17th 2017. And it is mentioned that date was going to be the day after that. Then we move in May 2017 and we see a lot of events which spans from May to November 2017 in AoS5E5. It has been 6 months since Fitz got arrested. Then in S5 we are expliclitly told that the Destruction of Earth is meant to happen in 2018. Also S4 references Doctor Strange's events from Hong Kong.

      Okay now you can tell me... "but what if in this universe the destruction is set to take place in 2017", the answer is: "nope". Because the loop does not bresk until Coulson gives Quake the serum. So we are in 2018. And we connect to Thanos and Black Order's attack... We are in 2018. We cannot move anything. Don't try to "fix it" there is nothing to get fix. The timeline is okay. The agents moved on and continued with their adventures. The Avengers did not because they felt guilty as they were in the forefront and they could reverse it but failed.

      The entire cast if Spider-Man died. The cast of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. did not. Full convenience? Yes. But that is the storyline they are taken. We have nothing bt to enjoy.

      Also it's been more than a year since the Snap. Maximum 13-15 months. Why would they talk about it? It is over. Not turning back. Just wsit and you will see how they will mention the Snap somehow. It is not the end of the world. It is still connected. Just enjoy and try to view the MCU's installments as an independent product just as we do when it comes to make the timeline.

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    • Timeline Discussion (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Marvelus)

      The only differences are that users can thumbs up each other's comments and (my particular issue) they're easier to find, because on Forum Threads, instead of a "Recent Wiki Activity" tab at the top right corner, there's a "Recent Forum Threads" tab. Since this thread is always active, it would always be there and thus be easier to find.

      Everything else is very functionally the same.

      Could you link some of this stuff so I can have a look?

      Marvelus wrote: One more to go.

      Why, what happens at 13?😳


      Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (Mrmichaelt, Master Tej, Marvelus)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: RE: AOS S6 E2 Yes, Yo-Yo. My mistake. But one more thing - unless it was a fake cover, there's also the magazine Snowflake flips through in the truck that they stole from the convenience store. Not sure if there was a date anywhere on it.

      Didn't notice any dates there but maybe.

      Master Tej wrote: Longtime lurker here, pretty invested into the MCU and particularly continuity and timeline stuff. I though I'd jump in on the discussion with my 2 cents about where AoS S6 is in the timeline.

      So, the announcement by the showrunners that basically amounted to "haHA nope we ain't following the films anymore and we're not even gonna offer an explanation why!" honestly really infuriated me. You can't create a connected universe that's really closely woven and then just . . . not do that all of the sudden.

      Then I got thinking, specifically about the end of S5. Conventional wisdom dictates that S5 takes place directly before Infinity War for two reasons, yes? One, Tony Caine asks Daisy "Have you seen all this weird stuff happening in New York?" and two, many characters discuss Thanos' impending arrival on Earth. Plus, as I recall, Word of God was that the show's ending few episodes took place more or less concurrent to the movie. However, the beginning of S6 really just drives at the idea that we're pre-Snap. As pointed out previously, the chance that EVERY character would have survived is incredibly small, and even if they ALL survived the Snap, there's no way nobody would be talking about it. I know the Agents have been through a lot, but half the world disappearing? Nobody's prepared for that emotionally - Endgame's first half shows us that.

      The last direct point of contact between AoS and the main MCU timeline, as I recall, was the integration of the Sokovia Accords back in S3, so in 2016. S4 takes place a few months later after Daisy has been on the run as Quake, and then all of S5 happens after that, with S6 set a year later. Forgive me for not recalling the exact amount of time elapsed during each season, but is it possible that we truly are still pre-Snap in AoS?

      Think about it - could S4 take place largely in late summer of 2016? (a few months after the Sokovia Accords) S5 picks up directly afterwards and half of it takes place in the future, so what if the Agents returned not long after they left, placing them in early 2017? The only problem with this I can think of is that Fitz was detained for a few months, but if it was only, like, 2 months, then early 2017 still works. Then S5's second half takes place in early 2017, and that bounces us to a year later in early 2018 for S6, which is still pre-Snap.

      Of course, that still leaves the references to IW at the end of AoS S5 hanging, but "weird stuff in New York" could be a lot of different things, including the events of any of the Netflix shows. Thanos was a cosmically known, very dangerous entity. Given that it was established that the Confederacy was really just trying to take advantage of HYDRA, perhaps their hand-wringing of "Thanos is on his way!" was really just sensational to make the humans afraid and more likely to comply, and Thanos, in reality, was still a good ways off from coming to Earth.

      I'm pretty prepared for you fine people to come back with a couple good reasons this explanation is flawed, so I'm partially posting this hypothetical just so that I can know why it doesn't work. In conclusion, if it's not too much trouble, please let me know the ways in which I'm wrong. You all are awesome for the continuity work you do in this universe, and it's really, really disappointing and honestly a little gross that the showrunners of AoS have basically said "do the work for us.

      - Master Tej -

      Season 3 ends in June 2016, with the epilogue "6 months later" in December 2016.

      Season 4 explicitly takes place in March-May 2017 due to Hope's birthday (see here for the evidence), and that fits as "6 months" after Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot, which we know takes place between Season 3 and its epilogue and at least "few months" after Civil War (Mace became the Patriot a few months after Civil War).

      Season 5 shows the 6.5 months Fitz then spent in prison, up to late November 2017. The agents then return from the future after that, specifically in December 2017 (see here for the evidence).

      A few months later, Season 5 ends simultaneously with Infinity War. I would agree with you that the New York line alone is not inflexible, but the fact that the follow-up episodes specifically talk about how Thanos has already started attacking Earth and show the WHiH news coverage of the Attack on Greenwich Village, it's explicit (plus confirmed by the showrunners).

      And regardless, the end of Season 5 is explicitly early 2018 (in The Last Day it shows events from the same day as the end of Season 5, just the original timeline, and says "Zephyr One 2018", it's also "2 years" since 2016 and "4 years" since 2014, just a few months after December 2018), and Infinity War is very very firmly the first half of 2018 (see here for that evidence).

      There's no avoiding it, Season 5 ends simultaneous with Infinity War, and Season 6, set 13 months later, is during the Snap period. The nine returning characters so far, ten including Coulson because we know he survived the Snap since he lived for weeks after Season 5, not seconds (eleven once Deke shows up) just all survived, however unlikely that is, and in the 13 months the agents have had to move on to face the new threats.

      I justify a few things in my head as being Snap-related. The new bunch of agents perhaps to fill the gaps left behind, and Marcus' husband having died what seems like about a year-ish ago. He doesn't mention how and it's been written like he died from cancer or something, but if you watch it with the Snap in mind, you can see how it could be construed as an unspoken understanding between the characters that they lost loved ones 13 months ago.

      Marvelus wrote: Don't stress too much. No one have ever said they have stopped fromo following the films. It is just the stupid media jumping the gun... Also: "Some people move on"... In Endgame we have seen people mourning but others do not. We see people playing Fornite, kids being happy on the streets, family having kids... Restaurants, bars, etc. Also Marvel Ent. posted s video about Season 6 and there they say explicitly: "Agents are not the ones that stay in bed and cry". It is like Marvel giving us tease thst the Agents have survived the Snap. Which is not impossible at all.

      And no. We csnnot move AoS previous seasons as you suggest. Season 4 picks about 9 months after the Sokovia Accords. Then in S4 we have an explicit date which cannot be ignored about April 17th 2017. And it is mentioned that date was going to be the day after that. Then we move in May 2017 and we see a lot of events which spans from May to November 2017 in AoS5E5. It has been 6 months since Fitz got arrested. Then in S5 we are expliclitly told that the Destruction of Earth is meant to happen in 2018. Also S4 references Doctor Strange's events from Hong Kong.

      Okay now you can tell me... "but what if in this universe the destruction is set to take place in 2017", the answer is: "nope". Because the loop does not bresk until Coulson gives Quake the serum. So we are in 2018. And we connect to Thanos and Black Order's attack... We are in 2018. We cannot move anything. Don't try to "fix it" there is nothing to get fix. The timeline is okay. The agents moved on and continued with their adventures. The Avengers did not because they felt guilty as they were in the forefront and they could reverse it but failed.

      The entire cast if Spider-Man died. The cast of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. did not. Full convenience? Yes. But that is the storyline they are taken. We have nothing bt to enjoy.

      Also it's been more than a year since the Snap. Maximum 13-15 months. Why would they talk about it? It is over. Not turning back. Just wsit and you will see how they will mention the Snap somehow. It is not the end of the world. It is still connected. Just enjoy and try to view the MCU's installments as an independent product just as we do when it comes to make the timeline.

      Editing this in because Marvelus posted moments before I did so I didn't see it until after.

      Our replies combined should hopefully really get across that there's just no way around it.

      I don't quite agree that it's not a problem with the agents not being snapped because the other groups we know had to all die or survive were only groups of five or six, where you have a 1 in 32 or 1 in 64 chance. Here we have a 1 in 1024, soon to be 1 in 2048 chance, 16-to-32 times as unlikely. But it just has to be accepted, unless the show later provides an explanation.

      I also think they would still talk about it so it's not a case of "Why would they be talking about it?", it's weird that it doesn't come up at all. But the 13 months does allow for a tiny bit of wiggle room for them just moving on from discussing it.

      Can you provide a link to that video, Marvelus? I'm curious.


      Runaways (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: Marvelus' crazy theory.


      In Runaways, we see how Chase is an adult (a few years older, approximately 5) in Victor's time machine. What if in Season 3 or 4 the Snap takes place in the show. And all of the Runaways but Chase get dusted. This will allow Chase to grow old and the rest of the team not and will allow them to continue the show. What do you think? That would be pretty dope

      Probably not the intention, but I like the idea.


      The Punisher: Season 2 (additional)

      Just so you know guys, I went back and finished the The Punisher: Season 2 notes. Here's the conclusion (ignore the A1, A2 etc., that's to do with earlier parts of the notes):

      BEJT wrote: Saturday, April 28, 2018 = A1
      Episode 1 beginning to minute 46ish (beginning to minute 2ish, minute 2ish to minute 45ish flashbacks to day before, minute 45ish to minute 46ish).

      Sunday, April 29, 2018 = A2
      Episode 1 minute 46ish to end. Episode 2 beginning to end. Episode 3 beginning to minute 7ish.

      Monday, April 30, 2018 = A3
      Episode 3 minute 7ish to end.

      Tuesday, May 1, 2018 = A4
      Episode 4 beginning to minute 29ish.

      Wednesday, May 2, 2018 = A5
      Episode 4 minute 29ish to end. Episode 5 beginning to minute 10ish.

      Thursday, May 3, 2018 = A6
      Episode 5 minute 10ish to end.

      Friday, May 4, 2018 = A7
      Episode 6 beginning to minute 17ish.

      Saturday, May 5, 2018 = B1
      Episode 6 minute 17ish to minute 21ish.

      Sunday, May 6, 2018 = C1
      Episode 6 minute 21ish to minute 22ish.

      Monday, May 7, 2018 = D1
      Episode 6 minute 22ish to minute 26ish.

      Tuesday, May 8, 2018 = D2
      Episode 6 minute 26ish to end. Episode 7 beginning to minute 9ish.

      Wednesday, May 9, 2018 = E1 + F1 + G1 + H1 + I1
      Episode 7 minute 9ish to minute 21ish.

      Thursday, May 10, 2018 = J1 + K1
      Episode 7 minute 21ish to minute 28ish.

      Friday, May 11, 2018 = K2
      Episode 7 minute 28ish to end. Episode 8 beginning to end.

      Saturday, May 12, 2018 = K3 + L1 + M1
      Episode 9 beginning to minute 10ish.

      Sunday, May 13, 2018 = N1
      Episode 9 minute 10ish to end.

      Monday, May 14, 2018 = N2
      Episode 10 beginning to minute 9ish.

      Tuesday, May 15, 2018 = N3
      Episode 10 minute 9ish to end. Episode 11 beginning to end. Episode 12 beginning to end. Episode 13 beginning to minute 9ish.

      Wednesday, May 16, 2018 = N4 + O1
      Episode 13 minute 9ish to minute 49ish.

      Thursday, May 17, 2018 = P1
      Episode 13 minute 49ish to minute 53ish.

      Friday, August 17, 2018 = Q1
      Episode 13 minute 53ish to end.

      I will write up the updated version of the 2018 problem for you guys to assess where we're at.


      Andre's Powers (additional)

      I thought I'd write to you guys to say that I think I've worked out Andre's powers, because it relates to the timeline notes write-ups. I got really confused in Episode 7 with whether Tyrone is in a vision world like Tandy in Episode 6 or if he's in the real world.

      I think when Andre touches someone, he basically gets a set of records for that person, chronicling their best hopes and worst despairs. Once he has that collection, he has some control over the person's head. If he doesn't remain in contact with them, while he's mentally in the record shop part of the cloak's dimension he can "put a record on" and while the person continues to be in the normal real world, they start thinking and seeing things that aren't the way things really are - so Tyrone started to think Tandy doesn't care about him, and then when Mayhem changed the record, he saw the ballerinas and the ambulances that weren't really there.

      However, if Andre remains in contact with the person, like with Tandy, he can properly induce their mind into a dream world while they're unconscious - the worlds of the hopes/despairs from the records.

      Usually he is entirely in control. He touches someone and his mind goes to the cloak's dimension alone. However, when he touches Chantelle, due to her spiritual control she manages to follow him into the cloak's dimension.

      When Tandy is breaking out of his control, she briefly gets halfway out - if layer 1 is the real world, layer 2 is the cloak's dimension, and layer 3 the vision worlds, she manages to break out from 3 into 2, but he forces her back into layer 3 when she tries to destroy the record (she thinks she's broken out fully into layer 1, but she's back in layer 3, where he "kills" Tyrone).

      And they definitely cannot be actual alternate realities, the way Tandy breaks out of consciousness in them and moves between them and slips in and out and they remix and mix around and sometimes are only just enough to mess with someone's mind. It's purely vision stuff to do with the cloak's dimension.

      Andre having some control over minds (which matches what Tyrone says about how he messed with his head) also would link to how he kills Chantelle. When he stops the heartbeat record, he's in some way affecting her real world head to stop functioning.

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    • What happens when it reaches 13? You would have to wait and see huhahahaha

      "Some people move on. But not us.": https://youtu.be/XGKrtHgHAq0

      Great work in Punisher S2.

      Obviously it is not the intention with Chase in Runaways. But now they can make it work.

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    • BEJT wrote:
      ===Timeline Discussion (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Marvelus)===

      The only differences are that users can thumbs up each other's comments and (my particular issue) they're easier to find, because on Forum Threads, instead of a "Recent Wiki Activity" tab at the top right corner, there's a "Recent Forum Threads" tab. Since this thread is always active, it would always be there and thus be easier to find.

      Everything else is very functionally the same.

      Could you link some of this stuff so I can have a look?

      Since the Timeline is more of a general thing that needs to be updated on the Wiki with each release, its related discussions would probably be posted in the General Discussion Board.

      As you can see when you open the link, on the right side of the screen, there is a column called "Forum Activity", which features the last 5 threads across all forum boards to have been replied to.

      Forum threads, like these threads, cap out at 500 posts. You can also give "likes" to each comment, though they're called "Kudos" on here. And you can also tag threads, so you could specifically go to the Timeline page, and below it, find links to forum posts tagged as being about the timeline, like these discussions.

      The main thing is the easier accessibility for people who want to dive deeper into the analysis of the timeline, but there are a few purely cosmetic changes as well. Functionally, posting a message on someone's wall or making a forum thread is very much the same.

      Here's a popular thread in the General Discussion Board that features a good amount of responses; Did Vision Kill Ultron?

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    • I don't know if these topics have been discussed or anything.  After watching Endgame I went a few weeks trying to get myself to be okay with not focusing so heavily on the idea of the one continuity since there's just no way for the shows we have left to logistically acknowledge the snap.  Still, the part of me that's been so invested in this for years has two questions:

      1) Since the Netflix, Hulu, and Freeform shows don't mention Thanos at all, could it be possible that they take all place in the timeline that Thanos left in 2014, leading to things staying pretty much the same on Earth except Infinity War doesn't happen?

      (((SHIELD Spoilers ahead)))))))

      2) I know Agents of SHIELD's big mistake was acknowledging Thanos at all.  Jumping ahead only one year and staying in the a timeline with Thanos very much in it means it should be real dusty, and I just can't accept that half the world disappeared and SHIELD is focused on weird anomalies instead of helping with the logistics of healing from the mass disappearance, which HAS to take more than a year, it just has to.  Other communities I'm in have suggested the theory that when they avoided cracking the Earth, they didn't just escape that timeline, but also the timeline where the Snap happened.  It would help explain the lack of a world that should still be very much in mass mourning, but I needed to see the butterfly.  I needed to figure out why Graviton being beaten in Chicago meant Thanos' forces attacking New York but not getting all the stones, and apparently caused a rift in space that happened to be in the exact position to crack Fitz' cryoship in half.  I'm sure that once we find out what exactly Sarge and co are up to, things will either make more or less sense, but do you think that it's possible that breaking the cracked-Earth loop somehow stuck the show on a separate timeline from the movies?  

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    • Until we are explicitly told by Marvel Television, Marvel Studios or Agents of SHIELD itself, we are still in the MCU. Also, just because the Decimation was large in scale does not make it any different from any other mass tragedy. People move on surprisingly fast.

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    • I am really getting annoyed at how people try to find a way to remove the TV shows from MCU continuity. Nothing personal, Nox I like you.

      Don't need to overthink about it. We are good.

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    • I understand that sentiment, I guess I just don't see different timelines as different continuities.  I've been fascinated by periods like Fury's Big Week or the overlap of Jessica Jones S1/Agents of Shield S2 and how we have different things happening in different places but it's still all MCU.  I can see myself accepting that some of these things take place in branching timelines but in the same MCU, still with a correct chronological viewing order which is why I got so interested in the timeline in the first place.  It's just my way of thinking and I was just curious if that where your guys' heads were at too, doesn't seem like it and that's cool

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    • I don't feel the need to come up with a complicated and potentially convoluted in-universe explanation when I can just ignore what the producers said and go from there. We're in the embryonic stages of multiverse/time travel so we shouldn't rush to using it to explain every little hole.

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    • Yeah, we can agree to disagree on whats more convoluted.  I'm of the mind that assumiing trillions of beings died just a year ago and every character we see on screen doesn't care about it enough to talk about it is more of a mental backflip.  But I 100% understand wanting so badly for this all to be on one single line.  Believe me it took a whole lot of contemplation to start to entertain the idea of branches on that line and I'm still not completely there.  Just starting to not completely dismiss it.

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    • I had forgotten what I originally came to this page for!! What day in February '17 did everyone land on for the Cloak and Dagger season 1 finale?  I wanted to start working season 2 into my mastercut and seeing if it overlaps with Daredevil and/or Thor Ragnarok

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    • Nox23 wrote: I had forgotten what I originally came to this page for!! What day in February '17 did everyone land on for the Cloak and Dagger season 1 finale?  I wanted to start working season 2 into my mastercut and seeing if it overlaps with Daredevil and/or Thor Ragnarok

      I settled on early March most likely March 1st (the day after Mardi Gras) actually, rather than a date in late February. Basically, right before the reports of murders attributed to Ghost Rider in AOS Season 4.

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    • Thanks! And I'm so grateful for the super specific chirons in episode 3

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    • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (Marvelus, Nox23, Edward Zachary Sunrose, Mrmichaelt)

      Marvelus wrote: What happens when it reaches 13? You would have to wait and see huhahahaha

      "Some people move on. But not us.": https://youtu.be/XGKrtHgHAq0

      Great work in Punisher S2.

      Obviously it is not the intention with Chase in Runaways. But now they can make it work.

      Oh right I saw that video. I just didn't think too much of that comment because it's not the intent, but yeah, it works.

      Nox23 wrote: I don't know if these topics have been discussed or anything.  After watching Endgame I went a few weeks trying to get myself to be okay with not focusing so heavily on the idea of the one continuity since there's just no way for the shows we have left to logistically acknowledge the snap.  Still, the part of me that's been so invested in this for years has two questions:

      1) Since the Netflix, Hulu, and Freeform shows don't mention Thanos at all, could it be possible that they take all place in the timeline that Thanos left in 2014, leading to things staying pretty much the same on Earth except Infinity War doesn't happen?

      (((SHIELD Spoilers ahead)))))))

      2) I know Agents of SHIELD's big mistake was acknowledging Thanos at all.  Jumping ahead only one year and staying in the a timeline with Thanos very much in it means it should be real dusty, and I just can't accept that half the world disappeared and SHIELD is focused on weird anomalies instead of helping with the logistics of healing from the mass disappearance, which HAS to take more than a year, it just has to.  Other communities I'm in have suggested the theory that when they avoided cracking the Earth, they didn't just escape that timeline, but also the timeline where the Snap happened.  It would help explain the lack of a world that should still be very much in mass mourning, but I needed to see the butterfly.  I needed to figure out why Graviton being beaten in Chicago meant Thanos' forces attacking New York but not getting all the stones, and apparently caused a rift in space that happened to be in the exact position to crack Fitz' cryoship in half.  I'm sure that once we find out what exactly Sarge and co are up to, things will either make more or less sense, but do you think that it's possible that breaking the cracked-Earth loop somehow stuck the show on a separate timeline from the movies?  

      Nothing from Netflix, Hulu, or Freeform has passed Infinity War yet anyway. The only one that will in the near future is Jessica Jones: Season 3 which is due out at this point in likely early June. Runaways: Season 3 might not even cross Infinity War so it could be potentially until a possible Cloak & Dagger: Season 3 next year before we get anything else catching up.

      You don't need to warn about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. spoilers. The unspoken rule here is that you only need to worry about spoilers if a full season comes out at once (Netflix) so people will be at different points, or with films.

      We've addressed the idea of a separate timeline at the end of Part 11. Have a look from this point at my conversation with Edward Zachary Sunrose.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Until we are explicitly told by Marvel Television, Marvel Studios or Agents of SHIELD itself, we are still in the MCU. Also, just because the Decimation was large in scale does not make it any different from any other mass tragedy. People move on surprisingly fast.

      I do agree that it's hard to think they wouldn't mention it at all, but it's not impossible that they've moved on just enough. That all there is to say has been said, and now of course they're just caught up in a more pressing matter.

      Marvelus wrote: I am really getting annoyed at how people try to find a way to remove the TV shows from MCU continuity. Nothing personal, Nox I like you.

      Don't need to overthink about it. We are good.

      Nox23 wrote: I understand that sentiment, I guess I just don't see different timelines as different continuities.  I've been fascinated by periods like Fury's Big Week or the overlap of Jessica Jones S1/Agents of Shield S2 and how we have different things happening in different places but it's still all MCU.  I can see myself accepting that some of these things take place in branching timelines but in the same MCU, still with a correct chronological viewing order which is why I got so interested in the timeline in the first place.  It's just my way of thinking and I was just curious if that where your guys' heads were at too, doesn't seem like it and that's cool

      Thanks for having a good conversation about it. If they can find a way to explain it through branched timelines that works with the rules of the universe and comments in films, then obviously we'll accept it. I really don't like the idea, but it'll just be the way it is.

      However, at the moment I wouldn't say it's just about a matter of preference - we have no current reason to believe it beyond a fan theory (which I personally think doesn't make sense anyway). Until otherwise confirmed the default is that it's the same timeline.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: I don't feel the need to come up with a complicated and potentially convoluted in-universe explanation when I can just ignore what the producers said and go from there. We're in the embryonic stages of multiverse/time travel so we shouldn't rush to using it to explain every little hole.

      Well yeah. We don't know how the multiverse works yet as I discussed before, and with the writers/directors disagreeing and the film apparently not as clear as I thought it was on what happens to the timelines in relation to returning Infinity Stones and what does and doesn't cause splits and branches etc.... it's just too early to say anything really.

      Man, when I said that I didn't like the idea of multiverse and all that because of how messy it could get. I think we're already feeling that.

      Nox23 wrote: Yeah, we can agree to disagree on whats more convoluted.  I'm of the mind that assumiing trillions of beings died just a year ago and every character we see on screen doesn't care about it enough to talk about it is more of a mental backflip.  But I 100% understand wanting so badly for this all to be on one single line.  Believe me it took a whole lot of contemplation to start to entertain the idea of branches on that line and I'm still not completely there.  Just starting to not completely dismiss it.

      Again, I agree that it's very strange, but I don't think it makes sense to assume it's another timeline just because of that, especially when the rules and comments (as discussed at the end of Part 11) don't really support that. I don't think it's just about preference, I think it's about the fact that in taking it to be the same timeline for now, while we are making some character assumptions, we are not making universe/continuity assumptions, just sticking to what we know and have been told and fitting the things around that. Fitting the characters to the universe rather than fitting the universe to the characters.

      So far, all the "alternate timeline" theory is is a theory (that also doesn't have precedent yet).


      Timeline Discussion (Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Since the Timeline is more of a general thing that needs to be updated on the Wiki with each release, its related discussions would probably be posted in the General Discussion Board.

      As you can see when you open the link, on the right side of the screen, there is a column called "Forum Activity", which features the last 5 threads across all forum boards to have been replied to.

      Forum threads, like these threads, cap out at 500 posts. You can also give "likes" to each comment, though they're called "Kudos" on here. And you can also tag threads, so you could specifically go to the Timeline page, and below it, find links to forum posts tagged as being about the timeline, like these discussions.

      The main thing is the easier accessibility for people who want to dive deeper into the analysis of the timeline, but there are a few purely cosmetic changes as well. Functionally, posting a message on someone's wall or making a forum thread is very much the same.

      Here's a popular thread in the General Discussion Board that features a good amount of responses; Did Vision Kill Ultron?

      Seems fairly similar other than the kudos thing, so if there are some slight advantages then it could be worth it for Part 13.

      Do you still get notifications through the envelope icon in the top right?


      Cloak & Dagger: Season 1 (Nox23, Mrmichaelt)

      Nox23 wrote: I had forgotten what I originally came to this page for!! What day in February '17 did everyone land on for the Cloak and Dagger season 1 finale?  I wanted to start working season 2 into my mastercut and seeing if it overlaps with Daredevil and/or Thor Ragnarok

      Mrmichaelt wrote: I settled on early March most likely March 1st (the day after Mardi Gras) actually, rather than a date in late February. Basically, right before the reports of murders attributed to Ghost Rider in AOS Season 4.

      Yeah it's posted as March 1st. Cloak & Dagger: Season 1 is all up on the 2017 page, Nox23.

      Nox23 wrote: Thanks! And I'm so grateful for the super specific chirons in episode 3

      I don't know what that means.

        Loading editor
    • "I don't quite agree that it's not a problem with the agents not being snapped because the other groups we know had to all die or survive were only groups of five or six, where you have a 1 in 32 or 1 in 64 chance. Here we have a 1 in 1024, soon to be 1 in 2048 chance, 16-to-32 times as unlikely. But it just has to be accepted, unless the show later provides an explanation.

      I also think they would still talk about it so it's not a case of "Why would they be talking about it?", it's weird that it doesn't come up at all. But the 13 months does allow for a tiny bit of wiggle room for them just moving on from discussing it." (Putting this message from BEJT in quotations because I don't actually know the correct formatting for quoting somebody else, plz forgive I'm new to conversation threads like this).

      The above is what I agree with. Half of all life disappearing means they lost somebody. Even with the overwhelmingly unlikely odds of the entire team in AoS surviving, there's still other factors to consider, like family - May's parents, Daisy's dad, Mack's brother or ex-wife, Davis' kid - all could have died, not to mention family or friends we don't know about.

      To be sure, I'm not arguing that AoS takes place before IW. Like I said, the theory I posted previously was mainly something I posted so I could see it proved wrong. I know about as much about the timeline as the showrunners seem to - broad strokes that give me a decent idea but lead to mistakes without the smaller timeline details. So I'm not arguing for AoS being before IW, I'm just agreeing that this is maddeningly sloppy and careless by the AoS team - make no mistake, multiple people in S.H.I.E.L.D., whether main or side characters, lost somebody to the Snap. A year on, the world would still be in mourning and chaos. Look at the US with 9/11 - we still have moments of silence every year on the day of. The cleanup of the WTC site took 9 months. The Snap was an event that, to its fictional universe, was several times larger and more catastrophic. As we see in Endgame, the world still bears the scars of Thanos even 5 years on, and we should see the same in AoS.

      I wish AoS had a larger following of fans to cause more of an uproar over this - maybe, at that point, they'd change their tune and at least overtly acknowledge the Snap, even if only in small ways.

      Another quick question - I read somewhere that a recent official MCU guidebook published a full timeline that claimed some icky stuff, like Iron Man taking place in 2010 and Fury's Big Week in 2011 (to coincide with, I suspect, Fury's line in Avengers about the Puente Antiguo incident being "a year prior"). Is this something with which anybody is familiar?

      - Master Tej -

        Loading editor
    • BEJT wrote:

      Timeline Discussion (Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Since the Timeline is more of a general thing that needs to be updated on the Wiki with each release, its related discussions would probably be posted in the General Discussion Board.

      As you can see when you open the link, on the right side of the screen, there is a column called "Forum Activity", which features the last 5 threads across all forum boards to have been replied to.

      Forum threads, like these threads, cap out at 500 posts. You can also give "likes" to each comment, though they're called "Kudos" on here. And you can also tag threads, so you could specifically go to the Timeline page, and below it, find links to forum posts tagged as being about the timeline, like these discussions.

      The main thing is the easier accessibility for people who want to dive deeper into the analysis of the timeline, but there are a few purely cosmetic changes as well. Functionally, posting a message on someone's wall or making a forum thread is very much the same.

      Here's a popular thread in the General Discussion Board that features a good amount of responses; Did Vision Kill Ultron?

      Seems fairly similar other than the kudos thing, so if there are some slight advantages then it could be worth it for Part 13.

      Do you still get notifications through the envelope icon in the top right?

      Yes, you get notifications from forum threads through the envelope icon. 

        Loading editor
    • Probably June 14th. It really took so long

        Loading editor
    • Nox23 wrote: I understand that sentiment, I guess I just don't see different timelines as different continuities. I've been fascinated by periods like Fury's Big Week or the overlap of Jessica Jones S1/Agents of Shield S2 and how we have different things happening in different places but it's still all MCU. I can see myself accepting that some of these things take place in branching timelines but in the same MCU, still with a correct chronological viewing order which is why I got so interested in the timeline in the first place. It's just my way of thinking and I was just curious if that where your guys' heads were at too, doesn't seem like it and that's cool

      It's fine if you like that idea. I personally am not fond of it, since the whole point of the MCU is that it all takes place within the same shared universe, rather than in seperate unrelated timelines.

      All such a thing would end up accomplishing is basically provide additional ammo to all the naysayers who've been denying the canonicity of all the MCU shows to just further dismiss them all as being non-canon.

      Master Tej wrote:
      The above is what I agree with. Half of all life disappearing means they lost somebody. Even with the overwhelmingly unlikely odds of the entire team in AoS surviving, there's still other factors to consider, like family - May's parents, Daisy's dad, Mack's brother or ex-wife, Davis' kid - all could have died, not to mention family or friends we don't know about.

      To be sure, I'm not arguing that AoS takes place before IW. Like I said, the theory I posted previously was mainly something I posted so I could see it proved wrong. I know about as much about the timeline as the showrunners seem to - broad strokes that give me a decent idea but lead to mistakes without the smaller timeline details. So I'm not arguing for AoS being before IW, I'm just agreeing that this is maddeningly sloppy and careless by the AoS team - make no mistake, multiple people in S.H.I.E.L.D., whether main or side characters, lost somebody to the Snap. A year on, the world would still be in mourning and chaos. Look at the US with 9/11 - we still have moments of silence every year on the day of. The cleanup of the WTC site took 9 months. The Snap was an event that, to its fictional universe, was several times larger and more catastrophic. As we see in Endgame, the world still bears the scars of Thanos even 5 years on, and we should see the same in AoS.

      I wish AoS had a larger following of fans to cause more of an uproar over this - maybe, at that point, they'd change their tune and at least overtly acknowledge the Snap, even if only in small ways.

      I don't quite agree that the world would necessarily be in chaos 1 year after the snap. If anything, Endgame suggested that Earth was doing relatively well compared to other places in the universe. They had the Avengers to maintain order, they got confirmation of Thanos' death and the destruction of the Infinity Stones, meaning that, as far as they knew, their loved ones were gone forever, but at least there's no threat of similar decimations in the future.

      The 9/11 comparison doesn't quite work because there really isn't any kind of fear of future attacks and the culprit is dead. The threat, for all intents and purposes, is over and done with.

      Yes, people are going to mourn and have trouble adjusting, as seen with the people Captain America was talking to and, of course, the Avengers themselves. But we also see that businesses are running, people are still going to work and doing their jobs and kids are asking the Hulk for autographs. Life moved on, albeit slowly and reluctantly.

      The agents, of all people, are the ones most likely to accept that there's no going back (as far as they know) and that the only choice is to move forward and try to protect those who remain.

      Master Tej wrote:
      Another quick question - I read somewhere that a recent official MCU guidebook published a full timeline that claimed some icky stuff, like Iron Man taking place in 2010 and Fury's Big Week in 2011 (to coincide with, I suspect, Fury's line in Avengers about the Puente Antiguo incident being "a year prior"). Is this something with which anybody is familiar?

      - Master Tej -

      There are a lot of contradictory dates regarding the timeline from Iron Man to The Avengers. The User BEJT wrote a blog on the matter which calculated the most likely dates using all of the available evidence.

        Loading editor
    • Formatting (Master Tej)

      Master Tej wrote: (Putting this message from BEJT in quotations because I don't actually know the correct formatting for quoting somebody else, plz forgive I'm new to conversation threads like this).

      If you're on a device with a mouse, hover over the message you want to quote, and there should be a button labelled "quote". If you click that, it will take you down to the reply box and will now have the quote inside it, preceded by:

      "<div class="quote">
      [Insert Name Here] wrote:"

      And followed by:

      "</div>"

      Then just type under that. If you want to reply to multiple messages, you can quote a message, then select the text in the reply box and cut it, pasting it onto some temporary file or tab. Then go back, quote another message, cut that and paste it onto the same file under the first quote, etc. so you can reply to multiple.


      Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (Master Tej, The Wikia Editor)

      Master Tej wrote: The above is what I agree with. Half of all life disappearing means they lost somebody. Even with the overwhelmingly unlikely odds of the entire team in AoS surviving, there's still other factors to consider, like family - May's parents, Daisy's dad, Mack's brother or ex-wife, Davis' kid - all could have died, not to mention family or friends we don't know about.

      To be sure, I'm not arguing that AoS takes place before IW. Like I said, the theory I posted previously was mainly something I posted so I could see it proved wrong. I know about as much about the timeline as the showrunners seem to - broad strokes that give me a decent idea but lead to mistakes without the smaller timeline details. So I'm not arguing for AoS being before IW, I'm just agreeing that this is maddeningly sloppy and careless by the AoS team - make no mistake, multiple people in S.H.I.E.L.D., whether main or side characters, lost somebody to the Snap. A year on, the world would still be in mourning and chaos. Look at the US with 9/11 - we still have moments of silence every year on the day of. The cleanup of the WTC site took 9 months. The Snap was an event that, to its fictional universe, was several times larger and more catastrophic. As we see in Endgame, the world still bears the scars of Thanos even 5 years on, and we should see the same in AoS.

      I wish AoS had a larger following of fans to cause more of an uproar over this - maybe, at that point, they'd change their tune and at least overtly acknowledge the Snap, even if only in small ways.

      I actually think the showrunners (Jed, Mo, and Jeff) know a bit about the timeline, just in this case they've had to forego that. I also think that they actually sometimes use the wiki - just certain bits and pieces give me that impression - which makes me worry that the "73 years, 261 days" line is because of the previous March 2018 placement😕.

      But I need to remember that it's not my responsibility to do their job. If they make a mistake because they relied on me, it's not my fault. I don't work for them, it's their choice to blindly trust the wiki if they do, same with that bad (unofficial) "official" timeline a few months ago (and usually I will be happy for people to blindly use the wiki, just sometimes there are mistakes left up that haven't been dealt with yet and/or there's a delay because the wiki says something when something is made but by the time it's out the wiki has changed).

      I don't think it's sloppy or careless on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s part, I just think it's an unfortunate consequence of schedule worries and poor Marvel Studios-Television communication, just perhaps not handled as cautiously or carefully as it could have been.

      The only justification I can give, and I don't think it's ideal at all, is that the world is scarred, just we only see the agents, a bar, a shop, a basketball court. Not wider scale stuff. It doesn't really fit, it just isn't absolutely 100% impossible with contradiction.

      The Wikia Editor wrote: It's fine if you like that idea. I personally am not fond of it, since the whole point of the MCU is that it all takes place within the same shared universe, rather than in seperate unrelated timelines.

      All such a thing would end up accomplishing is basically provide additional ammo to all the naysayers who've been denying the canonicity of all the MCU shows to just further dismiss them all as being non-canon.

      Agreed on both counts.

      The Wikia Editor wrote: I don't quite agree that the world would necessarily be in chaos 1 year after the snap. If anything, Endgame suggested that Earth was doing relatively well compared to other places in the universe. They had the Avengers to maintain order, they got confirmation of Thanos' death and the destruction of the Infinity Stones, meaning that, as far as they knew, their loved ones were gone forever, but at least there's no threat of similar decimations in the future.

      The 9/11 comparison doesn't quite work because there really isn't any kind of fear of future attacks and the culprit is dead. The threat, for all intents and purposes, is over and done with.

      Yes, people are going to mourn and have trouble adjusting, as seen with the people Captain America was talking to and, of course, the Avengers themselves. But we also see that businesses are running, people are still going to work and doing their jobs and kids are asking the Hulk for autographs. Life moved on, albeit slowly and reluctantly.

      The agents, of all people, are the ones most likely to accept that there's no going back (as far as they know) and that the only choice is to move forward and try to protect those who remain.

      All good points that help just make it feel that tiny bit plausible.

      Also I'm sure that they do commemorate anniversaries and things, but the 1-year anniversary would be weeks before Season 6.


      November 2018 (Unofficial) "Official" Timeline (Master Tej, The Wikia Editor)

      Master Tej wrote: Another quick question - I read somewhere that a recent official MCU guidebook published a full timeline that claimed some icky stuff, like Iron Man taking place in 2010 and Fury's Big Week in 2011 (to coincide with, I suspect, Fury's line in Avengers about the Puente Antiguo incident being "a year prior"). Is this something with which anybody is familiar?

      - Master Tej -

      Oh, there we go, the timeline I just referred to. Yes, we're very much aware and had long conversations about it for weeks. A guidebook published an incorrect timeline but it was explained by articles that it is in fact not the official MCU timeline. It's an MCU timeline in a licensed book, but the people behind it don't have the authority.

      I also, for reasons talked about long ago (when it happened), am fairly sure that it was unfortunately based off the wiki timeline when they started writing c. July 2017, post-Homecoming, pre-Phase One corrections, and with Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Infinity War then just guessed by them after the fact - getting 2 out of 3 of those wrong.

      Luckily, the majority of the Internet has moved on/forgotten it/tossed it aside I think.

      The Wikia Editor wrote: There are a lot of contradictory dates regarding the timeline from Iron Man to The Avengers. The User BEJT wrote a blog on the matter which calculated the most likely dates using all of the available evidence.

      I'm actually kind of embarrassed by that blog now because it was written almost 2 years ago and my processes have improved a fair amount😂. But it nonetheless gets the sentiment across, and thank you for linking it. I'll rewrite it much better one day, but the answer is fairly standout regardless, it's not urgent to rewrite it because the result will be the same.


      Timeline Discussion (Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Yes, you get notifications from forum threads through the envelope icon. 

      OK cool. Sounds like we should probably do that for Part 13 then, thanks for the suggestion. Seems like there's no detriment to that.


      Jessica Jones: Season 3 (me, Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: Probably June 14th. It really took so long

      I agree, since obviously my formulae gave May 24th as the expected date, so it should be closer to early June than late June - but with Black Mirror: Season 5 coming out on June 5th, I highly doubt that it would be June 7th. 14th seems logical.

      The first teaser for The Punisher: Season 2 came 17 days before the season so when the first teaser picture coming on May 6th made me confident my result was about right for a c. May 24th release date. However, the date announcement teaser for The Punisher came out 15 days before the show (the closest to the release they've ever done it) so it became clear in the last couple of weeks that it would be a bit later than May 24th. Should be a date announcement in the next week or so.

      I'm glad though that they're giving it a tiny bit more build-up than The Punisher: Season 2, which felt like Netflix saying, "Oh yeah anyway it's out in 2 weeks" like they just didn't care. I'm also glad that the show gets a kind of special place in the June 2019 releases video, like they do still care a bit.

        Loading editor
    • That was cute. They left the Marvel show for the post-credit scene. Would've been cuter if they'd bothered to give us a date.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: That was cute. They left the Marvel show for the post-credit scene. Would've been cuter if they'd bothered to give us a date.

      Yeah, it's a bit of 'what's the big secret at this point, marketing people?' but at least the video narrows it to 50:50 between June 7 or June 14.
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    • This episode of Cloak and Dagger isn't even halfway over, and it's already shot itself in the foot, timeline-wise.

      The present day is supposed to be 8 years and 8 months after the Roxxon Oil Rig explosion. So 104 months. The episode starts 96 months (aka 8 years ago), then another flashback takes place 92 months ago (aka 7 years and 8 months ago), and the 92 months ago flashback is when the explosion takes place. That is so wrong.

      The first flashback should be 108 months ago (4 months prior to the explosion) and the second should be 104 months ago (the night of the explosion, 8 years and 8 months prior to the present day).

      How can this show be so amazing with the voudon research, and yet so bad at keeping its internal timeline consistent?

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    • Jessica Jones: Season 3 (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Mrmichaelt)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: That was cute. They left the Marvel show for the post-credit scene. Would've been cuter if they'd bothered to give us a date.

      They did that for The Punisher as well with the January 2019 releases, but then deleted the video.

      I don't really get why they hold back the date on this stuff.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Yeah, it's a bit of 'what's the big secret at this point, marketing people?' but at least the video narrows it to 50:50 between June 7 or June 14.

      Didn't think about that - the fact that the video is just for the first half of June. I assumed 7th or 14th, but didn't click that it's definitely 7th or 14th. With Black Mirror out on the 5th, Jessica Jones is most likely the 14th.


      Cloak & Dagger (Marvelus, Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      Awesome! Doesn't 100% line up since Luke is more shady as of September 2017, but I'm sure that the intention is also just for it to be set after Luke Cage: Season 2 due to it releasing a year later. It works well enough.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: This episode of Cloak and Dagger isn't even halfway over, and it's already shot itself in the foot, timeline-wise.

      The present day is supposed to be 8 years and 8 months after the Roxxon Oil Rig explosion. So 104 months. The episode starts 96 months (aka 8 years ago), then another flashback takes place 92 months ago (aka 7 years and 8 months ago), and the 92 months ago flashback is when the explosion takes place. That is so wrong.

      The first flashback should be 108 months ago (4 months prior to the explosion) and the second should be 104 months ago (the night of the explosion, 8 years and 8 months prior to the present day).

      How can this show be so amazing with the voudon research, and yet so bad at keeping its internal timeline consistent?

      I give up. I GIVE UP.

      Thank you for the warning. Jeez, that's just effing ridiculous. I guess it just has to be ignored with the many, many pieces of evidence otherwise, and we have to add 12 months to the flashbacks. But that's just so stupid. I cannot believe this show.

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    • BEJT wrote: I give up. I GIVE UP.

      Thank you for the warning. Jeez, that's just effing ridiculous. I guess it just has to be ignored with the many, many pieces of evidence otherwise, and we have to add 12 months to the flashbacks. But that's just so stupid. I cannot believe this show.

      Stay strong, BETJ. We'll get through it somehow...
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    • We are with you man.

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    • Are they really that bad at keeping up with the timeline or are they trying to retcon so that the explosion was 7 years before Season 1? I don't see any reason why they would want to do that, so it must be the former.

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    • BEJT wrote: Awesome! Doesn't 100% line up since Luke is more shady as of September 2017, but I'm sure that the intention is also just for it to be set after Luke Cage: Season 2 due to it releasing a year later. It works well enough.

      So just clarifying 2 things from "Blue Note". I haven't seen Luke Cage season 2 yet but from what I gather - Karen Page's article is in reference to a battle between Luke and Bushmaster? And I guess it will be concluded Solomon had an out of date newspaper since LC S2 ended in September 2017 but C&D S2 is during November 2017. EDIT: I remembered reading in LC S2 ep 8 Misty mentioned Brigid had moved to New Orleans around the time Brigid mentioned her past work during whatever ep. of C&D that was.
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    • Ooh wow just got done watching the new Cloak and Dagger and I definitely think the show pulled a Sony with those unavoidably wrong timestamps. I wouldn't see it as too far a stretch that the newspaper isn't super current, maybe Solomon had kept it for a while and took it out now during this crisis of ethics. Or maybe Luke's crime boss ways only lasted a month.

      I sure do hope the timestamps can just be ignored. I spent last night cutting together the first 4 episodes into the rest of the MCU and it was so much work lining up events from the season 2 premiere with the Iron Fist finale and Daredevil 306. The nonlinear storytelling in 202 didn't help matters either. Then I watch Blue Note and I'm really hoping the the show doesn't shift itself and render all that work completely fruitless. Though it was cool peppering Mayhem and the 242/236/200/122/etc day flashbacks into the other 2017 events.

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    • Yeah. That "8 years thing" was just Marvel. Not Sony.

      I think it is definitely an old newspaper. I am worried that C&D might want to use the dste from the pilot which dates 1st season around 2015

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    • Oh yeah, I guess marvel did have full production control over homecoming, so definitely their bad then. I have to think there's a show Bible that could avoid stuff like this but man it's definitely annoying

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    • Mrmichaelt wrote:

      So just clarifying 2 things from "Blue Note". I haven't seen Luke Cage season 2 yet but from what I gather - Karen Page's article is in reference to a battle between Luke and Bushmaster?

      It's just a generic "Luke Saves Harlem" headline, I believe. So it could really be referring to anything.

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    • Mrmichaelt wrote: Stay strong, BETJ. We'll get through it somehow...

      Marvelus wrote: We are with you man.

      I've seen it now. Ridiculous.

      I'm also not sure whether we should place the 85 months ago flashback 85 months ago or 97 months ago. 85 would be specifically because it says 85, 97 because all other flashbacks are + 12 to what they say. I think I'm leaning towards just 85 as it says.

      DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: Are they really that bad at keeping up with the timeline or are they trying to retcon so that the explosion was 7 years before Season 1? I don't see any reason why they would want to do that, so it must be the former.

      Exactly, there's no reason. It's just stupid. Just so stupid.

      The show also this year has established Tyrone as 9 at the time of the accident and 18 now, meaning it is at least 8 years, 1 day since the accident. So even in this season alone it couldn't be 7 years, 8 months.

      To quote Luke Skywalker, "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong."

      I wish they would do more research.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: So just clarifying 2 things from "Blue Note". I haven't seen Luke Cage season 2 yet but from what I gather - Karen Page's article is in reference to a battle between Luke and Bushmaster? And I guess it will be concluded Solomon had an out of date newspaper since LC S2 ended in September 2017 but C&D S2 is during November 2017. EDIT: I remembered reading in LC S2 ep 8 Misty mentioned Brigid had moved to New Orleans around the time Brigid mentioned her past work during whatever ep. of C&D that was.

      I've seen the episode now - the clip pre-episode didn't include that it was Karen Page. That makes things a bit more complicated, since Karen would've been fired just days before this. However, having seen the full scene I also think it's fine. Tyrone says something like "I don't know this one", like this is isn't necessarily today's paper. If it's a few days old, which certainly happens in cafes in the U.K. at least, it's fine.

      I don't think it's a Bushmaster reference because we're almost 2 months on from Luke Cage: Season 2, I think it's just something Luke has done in Harlem recently off-screen. I think the Screen Rant article makes the mistake of trying to assume it's a specific event from the show. I really don't think that this reference is meant to be read into too much, and that it's just supposed to be something post-Luke Cage: Season 2 because it's a throwaway reference that isn't supposed to confuse audiences, just fit with "Oh this is something that happened since I last saw Luke".

      Luke has become a bit more shady by the end of Season 2 but he still wants to be the hero of Harlem, just through some dodgy means at times. I think it works fairly OK.

      Nox23 wrote: Ooh wow just got done watching the new Cloak and Dagger and I definitely think the show pulled a Sony with those unavoidably wrong timestamps. I wouldn't see it as too far a stretch that the newspaper isn't super current, maybe Solomon had kept it for a while and took it out now during this crisis of ethics. Or maybe Luke's crime boss ways only lasted a month.

      I sure do hope the timestamps can just be ignored. I spent last night cutting together the first 4 episodes into the rest of the MCU and it was so much work lining up events from the season 2 premiere with the Iron Fist finale and Daredevil 306. The nonlinear storytelling in 202 didn't help matters either. Then I watch Blue Note and I'm really hoping the the show doesn't shift itself and render all that work completely fruitless. Though it was cool peppering Mayhem and the 242/236/200/122/etc day flashbacks into the other 2017 events.

      As much as I prefer Marvel to Sony, don't let Marvel off the hook on this one. Sony get the blame for that, but Kevin Feige talked about it being intentional and, somehow, thought through. And there's no reason Sony would have been the ones to put that, especially when there's a line of dialogue as well so it couldn't just be a mistake from the edit.

      I think the newspaper is from the last month at some point, and yeah, I think Luke still does some jobs around town, but he spends a lot of his time being a crime boss. New York also, at least as of September, didn't see him as a crime boss - they still saw him as a hero and were writing raps to celebrate him and everything.

      Give me another day or two and the notes for Cloak & Dagger: Season 2, Episodes 1-8 will be completed, including the timings for the non-linear events. There's some temporary stuff up on the draft page currently but I've realised I made a few mistakes and am redoing it.

      But as for the exact order of overlapping events of Iron Fist: Season 2, Daredevil: Season 3, and Cloak & Dagger: Season 2 - we will get to that. We haven't had to work that out yet because we haven't been writing those events up.

      Marvelus wrote: Yeah. That "8 years thing" was just Marvel. Not Sony.

      I think it is definitely an old newspaper. I am worried that C&D might want to use the dste from the pilot which dates 1st season around 2015

      Marvelus and I are on the same wavelength about not letting Marvelus off on this one.

      I don't think it's that old a newspaper, just the last month or so. And again, no, I don't think this reference is supposed to be particularly read into.

      Nox23 wrote: Oh yeah, I guess marvel did have full production control over homecoming, so definitely their bad then. I have to think there's a show Bible that could avoid stuff like this but man it's definitely annoying

      The show in both seasons has been appalling in its timeline consistency.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: It's just a generic "Luke Saves Harlem" headline, I believe. So it could really be referring to anything.

      Exactly. I think just a recent small event. It's the New York Bulletin they're reading so it doesn't have to be an event of big enough scale to have made national news.


      By the way guys, at 31 minutes you see a poster for a Halloween event (there's actually a continuity error where it changes position between shots), which does fit with the correct time of year, since it's very early November (probably just left the poster up a bit too late).

        Loading editor
    • Wasn't the newspaper wrote by Karen? Ohhhhh!!! Now I know from when the newspaper is. By Season 2 E 13 of Luke Cage, Black Mariah ordered her old allies to get killed. Several incidents and shootings took place and Luke Cage got involved in defending Harlem. Saving people. So yes, Luke Cage saves Harlem. The newspaper must be from September 2017 referring to Season 2 E13 storyline. We might even move a little bit later the scenes to the end of the month.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, cool, looks like the sane solution is to deem Solomon's newspaper as an outdated one he kept for posterity or found it in the cafe.

      Marvelus wrote: Wasn't the newspaper wrote by Karen? Ohhhhh!!! Now I know from when the newspaper is. By Season 2 E 13 of Luke Cage, Black Mariah ordered her old allies to get killed. Several incidents and shootings took place and Luke Cage got involved in defending Harlem. Saving people. So yes, Luke Cage saves Harlem. The newspaper must be from September 2017 referring to Season 2 E13 storyline. We might even move a little bit later the scenes to the end of the month.

      Interesting. Promising.
        Loading editor
    • This are the notes i made the other night of the different episodes and stopping points before I cut the video together, just for kicks. It's a mess lol but it's fun.

         IF 209 Rec center aftermath
         DD 305 Dex’s tantrum
         IF 209 Sisters start on tattoo
         DD 305 Karen tells Foggy
         IF 209 Walker knocks out Misty
         DD 306 Foggy questions Karen
         IF 209 to end
         IF 210 Davos defeated
         CD 201 Opening
         DD 306 Dex hits alarm
         IF 210 fight aftermath
         DD 306 Dex sees article
         CD 201 Tandy’s offer to Mikayla
         IF 210 Collen/Mrs Yang truce
         AoS 505 Fitz tosses magazine
         CD 201 Spying on Evita
         DD 306 Nadeem talks to Hattley
         IF 210 Danny and Ward leave
         CD 201 Tandy and Ty argue
         DD 306 to end
         DD 307 Fisk smiles
         DD 308 Dex with vacuum
         CD Ty and Tandy wait in nightclub
         CD 203 48 hours ago
         CD 201 to end
         CD 202 Beginning (Ty and Tandy argue again)
         CD 202 Brigid: Calls cops
         CD 202 Brigid: Bookending bar scenes, throws up, wanders streets
         CD 203 36 hours earlier (still night time, wrong timestamp)
         DD 307 Matt recaps with Maggie
         CD 202 Mayhem: Crime scene
         DD 307 Bulletin Crime Scene
         CD 202 Tandy: blows up at Mikayla
         CD 202 Tyrone: Visits Auntie, shows Evita his powers
         DD 307 Matt visits Betsy
         CD 202: Tandy dances and reflects
         DD 307 to end
         DD 308 Julie is killed
         CD 202 Tandy: Meets Andre, envisions her dad
         CD 202 Tyrone: Attempts Veve, Shows up in ambulance
         CD 202 Mayhem: Visits victim’s home
         CD 202 Tandy: Missing Posters, Goes to Mikayla @ hospital
         DD 308 Nadeem leaves Dex with lawyer
         CD 202 Tyrone: Tries veve again, Evita shows up, Hospital
         CD 202 Tandy: Meets Mayhem at Ambulance sight, Mayhem kills driver
         CD 202 Tyrone: Finds Brigid, appears when Mayhem kills driver
         CD 203 Trio regroups at church
         DD 308 Foggy rescues Karen
         CD 203 Mina and Mayhem’s hideout
         DD 308 Felix picks up Dex
         CD 203 Mayhem with Delgado
         DD 308 Nadeem stitches himself
         CD 203 Strip club confrontation 
         DD 308 Fisk consoles Dex
         CD 203 Ambulance aftermath
         DD 308 Matt hears Maggie
         CD 203 to end
         CD 204 Tandy’s idea
         DD 309 Matt confronts Father Lantom
         CD 204 Police Station
         DD 309 Nadeem is framed
      
        Loading editor
    • Jessica Jones S3 synopsis came out recently and said that Trish had her new recently adquired powers. I know every Netflix show acts as if they were separate by a few months, but we could use this to potentially place Jessica Jones S3 in Late 2017. So we would have Cloak & Dagger S2, Iron Fist S2, Daredevil S3 and Jessica Jones S3 happening at the same time... Wow!!

        Loading editor
    • I haven't watched the episode yet but I've just seen a clip from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. where Enoch says they are planning to orbit Jupiter for another 72 years, 312 days (before leaving for the Lighthouse to deliver Fitz). This would mean it can't be later than February 18, 2019, which doesn't work.

      I don't really know what to do about this.

        Loading editor
    • It's all a mess. I remember when Elledy predicted that like the comics, the continuity in the MCU will get ignored, but maybe we may have to consider the team returning in Early-mid 2018 and Episode 5 of Season 5 being set in December 2017.

        Loading editor
    • This has nothing to do with Rewind or when they return. The reason it's no later than February 18, 2019 is because the latest Fitz could possibly wake up is December 27, 2091, and February 18, 2019 is 72 years, 312 days before that.

        Loading editor
    • Can you explain it to me again? xD, I just watched first episode.

        Loading editor
      • Fitz goes to sleep for approximately "74 years" (doesn't have to literally be 74 years, 0 days).
      • The team are in "Earth Year 2-0-9-1" in Season 5, Part 1. Plus that's supported by the 2017 + "74 years later". If they left the future as early as possible, December 31, 2091 (you could just about make the argument that maybe they were only sent to 2091 and were there into the first few days of 2092 but there's no indication of this and it doesn't really help to just gain a few days), then since Fitz wakes 4 days prior, the latest he can possibly have woken is December 27, 2091.
      • The opening scene of Season 6, where Enoch and Fitz are attacked, is "73 years, 261 days" before Fitz wakes up, but even if Fitz were to wake as late as possible, December 27, 2091, the latest this scene could be is then April 10, 2018. Except the scene is implied to a) be after The End, just due to the way these stories are told, and b) in the new timeline. I've been making notes about the exact details of what happened after the ship was split in two to try and work out a way that this could have also happened in the original timeline and the divergence point only occurred a while after the ship is split, at the time of The End.
      • But now, Enoch also says that as of Season 6, Episode 3, he plans to orbit Jupiter for another "72 years, 312 days". So the latest Season 6, Episode 3 could possibly be, if Fitz were to wake on the latest possible date of December 27, 2091, is February 18, 2019. But the show is 13 months on from Season 5 (true, they didn't explicitly say it's the one-year anniversary of Coulson's death but it's very strongly implied in Episode 1), and Season 5 cannot take place in February 2018.

      I wonder if this is because they saw the January 2018 placement on the wiki timeline when they started to write Season 6. But again, it's not our fault if they blindly trusted the wiki, and also, the 2091 stuff didn't have to be December. They could have given themselves more leniency if they just said 100andsomething days, allowing you to add from whatever dates the events are taking place and still end up in 2091.

        Loading editor
    • I see. I am kind of bussy with University, but I will see how we can crack that puzzle.

        Loading editor
    • Between the time Fitz should be frozen and the C&D mess with flashbacks this week, it's obvious that Loeb doesn't care about a cohesive timeline with the shows. I guess he figures most of the audience doesn't pay attention and could care less. It's the same reason I'm sure he'll use the "pre snap" argument for every future season of a show he is involved in. Even if it doesn't make sense. 

        Loading editor
    • Don't be too hard on Loeb. We don't if it is his choice, and I am fairly sure that at one point the TV Shows will address the Snap. They just have to find the best way to make it fit.

        Loading editor
    • It already doesn't fit, though. He and the rest of the cast and crew keep saying that Season 6 takes place before the Snap, which makes absolutely no sense because the last few episodes of Season 5 clearly took place around the same time as Infinity War and now it's a year later.

        Loading editor
    • Loeb isn't behind that kind of thing. He's different to Feige (and Feige isn't really behind that kind of thing either), in that what he shepherds is more disparate - a chunk is Netflix, a chunk (now just one show) is ABC, Cloak & Dagger is kind of its own thing, Runaways is kind of its own thing, he's got the new Spirits of Vengeance chunk apparently happening, plus he works on non-MCU stuff like Legion and The Gifted - and also that he isn't governing the Marvel Cinematic Universe in the way Feige is. The combination of these things means Feige is overseeing one large franchise and its convergences and overlaps and where everything is at at any given point and is the one setting the Marvel Cinematic Universe out. Loeb is overseeing mini-franchises (and several of them) within a larger franchise more than Feige is because it's not like the TV stuff is all headed in one direction and is beholden to Feige's laws essentially.

      I do have a problem with his sometimes feeble excuses and the way he phrased the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. thing, but he's in a difficult position.

        Loading editor
    • It is after the Snap. And they will make that way when the time comes. The continuity is fine.

        Loading editor
    • So then why are the cast and crew saying otherwise?

        Loading editor
    • My message was just a response to Rman823.

      As I've said before on the discussion, I have a problem with the specific comment about leaving it to timeline people to work it out for them. And I think they should've just explained it as "It's been a year and they've moved on".

      I think they decided on this excuse because they thought, "Most people won't think too much about that problem, so then we don't have to deal with people criticising the improbability of them all surviving and moving on if we just say it's before the Snap - most people will be satisfied and it is an easy answer."

        Loading editor
    • BEJT wrote:

      I wonder if this is because they saw the January 2018 placement on the wiki timeline when they started to write Season 6. But again, it's not our fault if they blindly trusted the wiki, and also, the 2091 stuff didn't have to be December. They could have given themselves more leniency if they just said 100andsomething days, allowing you to add from whatever dates the events are taking place and still end up in 2091.

      Since those two scenes take place after the timeline is changed, maybe we can just ignore those statements since in this timeline they don't actually make it to the future? Like, maybe in this new timeline, Fitz would have woken up on 2092 for some reason?

        Loading editor
    • That is a clever resolution.

        Loading editor
    • I'll respond to stuff later.

      I'm rewatching last week's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before I watch Episode 3, and paused on the magazines in the store at the beginning to see if I could place them.

      The ones I could make out, I got:

      • The August 2018 issue of Vogue with Saoirse Ronan on the cover.
      • The August 2018 issue of GQ with Travis Scott and Kylie Jenner on the cover.
      • The August 2018 issue of Cosmopolitan with Mila Kunis on the cover.
      • And the Summer 2018 issue of Esquire with...



        Chadwick Boseman on the cover😂😂😂.
        Loading editor
    • Hahahaha

        Loading editor
    • Cloak & Dagger (Marvelus, Mrmichaelt)

      Marvelus wrote: Wasn't the newspaper wrote by Karen? Ohhhhh!!! Now I know from when the newspaper is. By Season 2 E 13 of Luke Cage, Black Mariah ordered her old allies to get killed. Several incidents and shootings took place and Luke Cage got involved in defending Harlem. Saving people. So yes, Luke Cage saves Harlem. The newspaper must be from September 2017 referring to Season 2 E13 storyline. We might even move a little bit later the scenes to the end of the month.

      Eh, Luke didn't really do anything helpful there, and that isn't really a "Harlem Rumble". Again, I don't think it's an event we've seen. It's just a small Luke Cage event.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Yeah, cool, looks like the sane solution is to deem Solomon's newspaper as an outdated one he kept for posterity or found it in the cafe.

      Yeah but it doesn't have to be more than a few weeks out of date. So long as it was before the main events of Daredevil: Season 3.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Interesting. Promising.

      I would personally just assume it's from a skirmish in October 2017.


      October-November 2017 (Nox23, Marvelus)

      Nox23 wrote: This are the notes i made the other night of the different episodes and stopping points before I cut the video together, just for kicks. It's a mess lol but it's fun.

         IF 209 Rec center aftermath
         DD 305 Dex’s tantrum
         IF 209 Sisters start on tattoo
         DD 305 Karen tells Foggy
         IF 209 Walker knocks out Misty
         DD 306 Foggy questions Karen
         IF 209 to end
         IF 210 Davos defeated
         CD 201 Opening
         DD 306 Dex hits alarm
         IF 210 fight aftermath
         DD 306 Dex sees article
         CD 201 Tandy’s offer to Mikayla
         IF 210 Collen/Mrs Yang truce
         AoS 505 Fitz tosses magazine
         CD 201 Spying on Evita
         DD 306 Nadeem talks to Hattley
         IF 210 Danny and Ward leave
         CD 201 Tandy and Ty argue
         DD 306 to end
         DD 307 Fisk smiles
         DD 308 Dex with vacuum
         CD Ty and Tandy wait in nightclub
         CD 203 48 hours ago
         CD 201 to end
         CD 202 Beginning (Ty and Tandy argue again)
         CD 202 Brigid: Calls cops
         CD 202 Brigid: Bookending bar scenes, throws up, wanders streets
         CD 203 36 hours earlier (still night time, wrong timestamp)
         DD 307 Matt recaps with Maggie
         CD 202 Mayhem: Crime scene
         DD 307 Bulletin Crime Scene
         CD 202 Tandy: blows up at Mikayla
         CD 202 Tyrone: Visits Auntie, shows Evita his powers
         DD 307 Matt visits Betsy
         CD 202: Tandy dances and reflects
         DD 307 to end
         DD 308 Julie is killed
         CD 202 Tandy: Meets Andre, envisions her dad
         CD 202 Tyrone: Attempts Veve, Shows up in ambulance
         CD 202 Mayhem: Visits victim’s home
         CD 202 Tandy: Missing Posters, Goes to Mikayla @ hospital
         DD 308 Nadeem leaves Dex with lawyer
         CD 202 Tyrone: Tries veve again, Evita shows up, Hospital
         CD 202 Tandy: Meets Mayhem at Ambulance sight, Mayhem kills driver
         CD 202 Tyrone: Finds Brigid, appears when Mayhem kills driver
         CD 203 Trio regroups at church
         DD 308 Foggy rescues Karen
         CD 203 Mina and Mayhem’s hideout
         DD 308 Felix picks up Dex
         CD 203 Mayhem with Delgado
         DD 308 Nadeem stitches himself
         CD 203 Strip club confrontation 
         DD 308 Fisk consoles Dex
         CD 203 Ambulance aftermath
         DD 308 Matt hears Maggie
         CD 203 to end
         CD 204 Tandy’s idea
         DD 309 Matt confronts Father Lantom
         CD 204 Police Station
         DD 309 Nadeem is framed
      

      I'm not going to spend too much time going through this, I'll just let you know once we've worked it all out. And I'll let you know when I've posted the timings of Cloak & Dagger: Season 2, Episodes 2 and 3, which will be very soon, next day or two.

      Marvelus wrote: Jessica Jones S3 synopsis came out recently and said that Trish had her new recently adquired powers. I know every Netflix show acts as if they were separate by a few months, but we could use this to potentially place Jessica Jones S3 in Late 2017. So we would have Cloak & Dagger S2, Iron Fist S2, Daredevil S3 and Jessica Jones S3 happening at the same time... Wow!!

      Yeah, it's very possible this is another "Last season was recent... over a year ago". It would be good to avoid the Snap and also when Loeb inevitably says it's pre-Snap it would be nice to actually be able to fit that, though it would admittedly be annoying to have a) four simultaneous shows' events and b) break the Netflix chronological order at the last minute.


      Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (me, Marvelus, Rman823, Greater good, DaenerysTheMadKhal58)

      BEJT wrote: I haven't watched the episode yet but I've just seen a clip from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. where Enoch says they are planning to orbit Jupiter for another 72 years, 312 days (before leaving for the Lighthouse to deliver Fitz). This would mean it can't be later than February 18, 2019, which doesn't work.

      I don't really know what to do about this.

      I've seen it now. Still don't know what to do.

      Marvelus wrote: It's all a mess. I remember when Elledy predicted that like the comics, the continuity in the MCU will get ignored, but maybe we may have to consider the team returning in Early-mid 2018 and Episode 5 of Season 5 being set in December 2017.

      BEJT wrote: This has nothing to do with Rewind or when they return. The reason it's no later than February 18, 2019 is because the latest Fitz could possibly wake up is December 27, 2091, and February 18, 2019 is 72 years, 312 days before that.

      Also as mentioned before, I'm still working on a full updated analysis of the 2018 problem. But no, as I explain in that analysis, no matter what they return in December 2017.

      Marvelus wrote: Can you explain it to me again? xD, I just watched first episode.

      BEJT wrote:

      • Fitz goes to sleep for approximately "74 years" (doesn't have to literally be 74 years, 0 days).
      • The team are in "Earth Year 2-0-9-1" in Season 5, Part 1. Plus that's supported by the 2017 + "74 years later". If they left the future as early as possible, December 31, 2091 (you could just about make the argument that maybe they were only sent to 2091 and were there into the first few days of 2092 but there's no indication of this and it doesn't really help to just gain a few days), then since Fitz wakes 4 days prior, the latest he can possibly have woken is December 27, 2091.
      • The opening scene of Season 6, where Enoch and Fitz are attacked, is "73 years, 261 days" before Fitz wakes up, but even if Fitz were to wake as late as possible, December 27, 2091, the latest this scene could be is then April 10, 2018. Except the scene is implied to a) be after The End, just due to the way these stories are told, and b) in the new timeline. I've been making notes about the exact details of what happened after the ship was split in two to try and work out a way that this could have also happened in the original timeline and the divergence point only occurred a while after the ship is split, at the time of The End.
      • But now, Enoch also says that as of Season 6, Episode 3, he plans to orbit Jupiter for another "72 years, 312 days". So the latest Season 6, Episode 3 could possibly be, if Fitz were to wake on the latest possible date of December 27, 2091, is February 18, 2019. But the show is 13 months on from Season 5 (true, they didn't explicitly say it's the one-year anniversary of Coulson's death but it's very strongly implied in Episode 1), and Season 5 cannot take place in February 2018.

      I wonder if this is because they saw the January 2018 placement on the wiki timeline when they started to write Season 6. But again, it's not our fault if they blindly trusted the wiki, and also, the 2091 stuff didn't have to be December. They could have given themselves more leniency if they just said 100andsomething days, allowing you to add from whatever dates the events are taking place and still end up in 2091.

      Marvelus wrote: I see. I am kind of bussy with University, but I will see how we can crack that puzzle.

      Good luck with university.

      Rman823 wrote: Between the time Fitz should be frozen and the C&D mess with flashbacks this week, it's obvious that Loeb doesn't care about a cohesive timeline with the shows. I guess he figures most of the audience doesn't pay attention and could care less. It's the same reason I'm sure he'll use the "pre snap" argument for every future season of a show he is involved in. Even if it doesn't make sense. 

      Marvelus wrote: Don't be too hard on Loeb. We don't if it is his choice, and I am fairly sure that at one point the TV Shows will address the Snap. They just have to find the best way to make it fit.

      Greater good wrote: It already doesn't fit, though. He and the rest of the cast and crew keep saying that Season 6 takes place before the Snap, which makes absolutely no sense because the last few episodes of Season 5 clearly took place around the same time as Infinity War and now it's a year later.

      BEJT wrote: Loeb isn't behind that kind of thing. He's different to Feige (and Feige isn't really behind that kind of thing either), in that what he shepherds is more disparate - a chunk is Netflix, a chunk (now just one show) is ABC, Cloak & Dagger is kind of its own thing, Runaways is kind of its own thing, he's got the new Spirits of Vengeance chunk apparently happening, plus he works on non-MCU stuff like Legion and The Gifted - and also that he isn't governing the Marvel Cinematic Universe in the way Feige is. The combination of these things means Feige is overseeing one large franchise and its convergences and overlaps and where everything is at at any given point and is the one setting the Marvel Cinematic Universe out. Loeb is overseeing mini-franchises (and several of them) within a larger franchise more than Feige is because it's not like the TV stuff is all headed in one direction and is beholden to Feige's laws essentially.

      I do have a problem with his sometimes feeble excuses and the way he phrased the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. thing, but he's in a difficult position.

      Marvelus wrote: It is after the Snap. And they will make that way when the time comes. The continuity is fine.

      Greater good wrote: So then why are the cast and crew saying otherwise?

      BEJT wrote: My message was just a response to Rman823.

      As I've said before on the discussion, I have a problem with the specific comment about leaving it to timeline people to work it out for them. And I think they should've just explained it as "It's been a year and they've moved on".

      I think they decided on this excuse because they thought, "Most people won't think too much about that problem, so then we don't have to deal with people criticising the improbability of them all surviving and moving on if we just say it's before the Snap - most people will be satisfied and it is an easy answer."

      DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: Since those two scenes take place after the timeline is changed, maybe we can just ignore those statements since in this timeline they don't actually make it to the future? Like, maybe in this new timeline, Fitz would have woken up on 2092 for some reason?

      Unfortunately, no. They don't know the timeline has changed. They think they have to get back into cryo-freeze to get to the team in 2091. From their perspective, this is purely following on from Rewind. Enoch told him they're in 2091. Fitz went to sleep, but they were attacked a while later. They have to get back to the chamber so they can continue to wait until 2091.

      Marvelus wrote: That is a clever resolution.

      I wish it could work. The only things I can think of are:

      • Enoch is talking about these aliens' "years", not Earth years (it can't be Jupiter years because one Jupiter year is 12 Earth years, 1200% when you want 99%). This is highly unlikely, as the universal translators are in play and one would surmise from that that it converts the units as well (the same reason I don't think Thanos' "almost 20 years" line is Zen-Whoberi years and not Earth years), but also it would be very coincidental for the aliens' years to be so close to Earth years, as well as the number of days in the year to be similar.
      • Enoch plans on returning to Jupiter for a bit after the Lighthouse events, perhaps to wait for the hopeful reconstruction of Earth, and he's adding the two lengths of time. This is really reaching. It also doesn't account for the Episode 1 261 days line - sure, that can be separately dealt with as I've mentioned, with its own stretch of the imagination working out how it could fit into the stem timeline for the first couple of months after it, but that's also a stretch and it seems odd to not have the Episode 1 and Episode 3 scenes 314 days apart when they couple like that. And if this happens again, it doesn't account for that either.
      • Season 5, Episodes 1-4 span a few months. They arrive in late December 2091 but by Episode 4 it's Spring 2092. Fitz wakes a few days before he arrives in Episode 4, so he wakes in Spring 2092, thereby allowing the opening scene of Season 6 to be after the timeline split and Season 6 to be Spring/Summer 2019, because the date they are due to wake is later. But there's no way Episodes 1-4 span a few months.

      Maybe we can do something with the fact that it's a new timeline somehow meaning Enoch is planning for 2092 instead, but I don't see how.

      By the way, the episode also says Fitz died over a year ago, so now we do have explicit confirmation that it's over a year since Season 5.

      BEJT wrote: I'll respond to stuff later.

      I'm rewatching last week's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before I watch Episode 3, and paused on the magazines in the store at the beginning to see if I could place them.

      The ones I could make out, I got:

      • The August 2018 issue of Vogue with Saoirse Ronan on the cover.
      • The August 2018 issue of GQ with Travis Scott and Kylie Jenner on the cover.
      • The August 2018 issue of Cosmopolitan with Mila Kunis on the cover.
      • And the Summer 2018 issue of Esquire with...



        Chadwick Boseman on the cover😂😂😂.

      Marvelus wrote: Hahahaha

      As for what it means for the timeline: not much. It's the issues from when they filmed it. Personally, if I were them I would make some fake covers because obviously you can't predict what the July 2019 or whatever magazine cover will be, but the magazines don't have to match the real world so if you make a fake cover it could be any date. But it's more effort, I get just using those magazines. We can just assume them old.

      I also jotted down the exact quotes from that yellow leaflet:

      • "WHISKEY LIQUOR ESTABLISHMENT hereby declares its intention(s) to apply for a Retail Drink License, Sunday Sales and N64 Retail Malt Beverage Drink License no later than Sept. 20, 2018."
      • "SALE OF CAIRE ESTATE: COMMISSIONER'S SALE CAIRE CIRCUIT COURT Case No. 5254234 Division II Nationstar Real ESTATE LLC dba Mortgage Company PLAINTIFF vs. MATTHEW JOSEPH DEFENDANTS BY VIRTUE OF A JUDGMENT RENDERED JULY 17, 2018. BY THE CITY JUDGE, IN THE ABOVE CAUSE I SHALL PROCEED TO OFFER FOR SALE At the CAIRE ESTATE Court House Door550 Yorkshire Street To the highest or best bidder at public auction on Tuesday, August 14, 2018, at 10:00 a.m.."

      It's not clear to me what the leaflet is, but it seems very possible to me that it's not new.


      Avengers: Endgame Rewatch (additional)

      I forgot to mention, I saw Endgame a second time on Monday. Aside from a further quote about the way this alternate timeline stuff works which I caught - I've gone into that on the thread discussing all that mess - there were just a few more things I caught:

      • The Wakanda scene at the end is I believe a full moon, which would suggest (if it's c. June/July 2023) it's the night of June 3rd or July 3rd locally, so June 3rd or July 3rd daytime U.S..
      • Alexander Pierce says they've had the Tesseract for about 70 years. However, I didn't catch if he says a word before "70". I have a feeling he either says "almost" or "over". I will obviously look out for it the next time I watch in a few weeks. "Over" would of course be a mistake, but it doesn't matter, the film explicitly says "1945" and "2012".
      • In Tony's final recorded message, he says something like "If you told me 10 years ago that we weren't alone in the universe, I..." something something. I think he doesn't actually say "I wouldn't have believed you" as you would expect, he says something a bit more complicated. Again, I'll try to pick up on it more next time. But obviously that doesn't really work, since 2013 was 10 years ago, after he had encountered aliens. It doesn't matter because again, the film explicitly says "2012" and "9 years" after "2014". You can't really say "He's rounding" in this case because it's not that he's referring to a time before he would've believed: 2011 or early 2012, he's specifically constraining all his alien encounters to the last 10.0 years. But oh well, and also the quote might actually work when I catch it all.

      Otherwise the film is pretty spot on with its timeline.

      As for how many days pass:

      • Thursday, day of the Snap
        • Hawkeye opening.
      • Thursday, 21 days after the Snap
        • Captain Marvel credits scene.
          • It takes Carol only about 12 hours or so to transport Tony back, so she could leave the day before she picks him up.
        • Thanos destroys the Infinity Stones.
          • 2 days before 23 days after the Snap.
      • Friday, 22 days after the Snap
        • Carols saves Tony.
          • Tony says it's Day 22. Assuming Day 1 was the day after the Snap and not the day of, because Tony cannot take more than a day to get back, otherwise he'd run out of oxygen as there's less than a day left of that, and after he gets back it's 23 days since the Snap, so it can't really only be 21 days after currently.
      • Friday/Saturday, 22/23 days after the Snap
        • Carol returns Tony.
      • Saturday, 23 days after the Snap
        • The team discuss what to do. They head to space.
          • Said to be 23 days. Said that Thanos destroyed the stones 2 days ago.
        • The team kill Thanos.
          • Again said that Thanos destroyed the stones 2 days ago, so still the same day.

      5 years later.

      • Day 1
        • Support group.
        • Scott gets out.
      • Day 5
        • Natasha in the facility.
        • Scott tells them his idea.
          • Would take about 4 days to travel from San Francisco.
      • Day 6
        • Visit Tony.
        • Hulk diner.
        • Tony cracks it.
      • Day 7
        • Test with Scott.
        • Tony arrives.
      • Day 8
        • Pick up Thor.
        • Tokyo.
      • A few days pass to build the platform. Then Time Heist through to Tony's death.
      • Then a montage, Clint returns to his family, Peter returns to school, fireworks over San Francisco, and Wakanda at night. Assuming these are all roughly the same day, it should be June 3rd rather than July 3rd, for Peter to be back at school. It's weird if they're the same day because Clint would want to return to his family immediately and the fireworks would presumably be only the next day or two, but I imagine schools took a while to get going again.
      • Then the funeral.
      • Then I think it's Thor with Valkyrie and the Guardians.
      • Then I think it's just the ending, which should be a little while later due to building the platform again.

      Overall maybe 3 weeks support group to finish?

        Loading editor
    • BEJT wrote: I've seen it now. Still don't know what to do.

      Worse come to worse, "Chronicoms were already messing with his internal systems and preparing for the decommission so he miscalculated in that one moment." ;)

      Man, May 2019 has not been kind with the TV side of the MCU timeline...

      BEJT wrote: By the way, the episode also says Fitz died over a year ago, so now we do have explicit confirmation that it's over a year since Season 5.

      That matches with May's statement she and Coulson had more time with each other than she thought and they say it's going to be the anniversary of his death shortly. So the season did start a year AND change after the team departs Tahiti. The statement about Future Fitz's death corroborates that.

      BEJT wrote: Overall maybe 3 weeks support group to finish?

      Yeah, I was thinking a month at most.
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    • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Worse come to worse, "Chronicoms were already messing with his internal systems and preparing for the decommission so he miscalculated in that one moment." ;)

      Man, May 2019 has not been kind with the TV side of the MCU timeline...

      At this point, I'll take anything like that as another slight, slight possibility. And Fitz just didn't work it out in his head that it was wrong.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: That matches with May's statement she and Coulson had more time with each other than she thought and they say it's going to be the anniversary of his death shortly. So the season did start a year AND change after the team departs Tahiti. The statement about Future Fitz's death corroborates that.

      Yeah exactly. That's basically what I was saying, because I've been saying it's 13 months since Season 5 because Coulson likely had "weeks" (considering they said he had weeks if he was lucky, and he apparently was lucky) and then Episode 1 finishes on the 1-year anniversary of his death. I was only bringing this up because I mentioned when the Enoch problem came up that technically they didn't explicitly say it was the 1-year anniversary of Coulson's death, just very very very strongly implied it (I didn't think there was wiggle room there because it's pretty undeniable, I was bringing up "Yes they don't explicitly say it" to then say "But no, it definitely is"), but now we have had an explicit mention that it's over a year.


      Cloak & Dagger: Season 2 (additional)

      Nox 23, the timings for Cloak & Dagger: Season 2, Episodes 2-3 are now updated, here.

      The notes up to Episode 8 are also all on that page as well.

      As mentioned before though, when it comes to interweaving the exact order of Iron Fist, Daredevil, and Cloak & Dagger events on the same day, that will only come later down the line once we get around to writing those up, sorry.

        Loading editor
    • Introduction

      OK, so I broke down the 2018 problem with all the evidence we have now and how Avengers: Endgame impacts The Punisher: Season 2's effect on this problem.

      I have also provided some weightings to the evidence. They are not concrete, this is like Cloak & Dagger just providing guidance - more than you would have without. I have also in doing this pinpointed the various things in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. that make the gap since Principia feel small, and have broken things down into soft evidence (not based on actual evidence but rather a strong feeling or implication) and hard evidences (dates and numbers etc.).

      Firstly, All the Comforts of Home, The Real Deal, and Principia are firmly December 2017 for five reasons:

      • The Real Deal has a "12-06-2017" date.
      • Principia has a "12-17-2017" date.
      • The agents are said to have only been gone for "months".
      • "Tidings of comfort and joy" line implying Christmas-time.
      • All the Comforts of Home refers to Thor: Ragnarok's events, implying them to be very recent.

      Even if The Devil Complex to The End were to be moved right to June 2018, it works better to have a 6-month jump (even though that's hard) and keep those first three episodes in December 2017 than move them to Spring 2018. So moving those episodes from December 2017 is not in question.

      Evidence

      Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Soft Evidence for Early 2018

      • In The Real Deal, the team discover that Coulson is dying. For them, it has been only a few days since Coulson made the deal with Ghost Rider, yet it has become quite bad. They do not know when he will die, but considering it took just a few days to get this bad, it would be strange for it to take up to 7 further months to kill him.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: The progression may be extremely variable, and there may also have just been an initial quick burst from the deal with Ghost Rider making things fairly bad, and the rate after that is slow. Fitz and Simmons might also have been able to help just a tiny bit, though from their dialogue, it seems unlikely.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: I can't see him surviving more than 3 months before his heart stops in The End (they then resuscitate him for a little bit longer). If he survived 3 months after the team find out on December 6, 2017, so about March 6, 2018, then the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, March 8, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 4/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 3.5/10.
            Overall: 4 - (3.5 ÷ 10) × 4 = 2.6.
      • In Principia, Fitz says in December 2017, "The, uh, the gravitonium device that we used to seal the rift is barely strong enough. It's duct tape on the Hoover Dam. It's not gonna hold." Coulson asks, "How much time before the dam starts leaking?", and he says, "Well, uh, it's hard to calculate that precisely, but, based on the increased frequency of transit, electromagnetic waves, I'd say that our days were numbered." While he clearly doesn't know exactly how long they have, the implication is absolutely no more than a couple of weeks.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: It's unpredictable, and maybe Fitz managed a few things between Principia and The Devil Complex to buy them more time, adding more and more "duct tape" to that "Hoover Dam".
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: I can't see it lasting more than a month after Fitz's comment on December 17, 2017, so around January 17, 2018. The Devil Complex is 2 weeks before the Snap, so January 31, 2018, then the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, February 1, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 5/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 4/10.
            Overall: 5 - (4 ÷ 10) × 5 = 3.
      • In The Devil Complex, Simmons says she would like to have a honeymoon with Fitz, implying they recently married. In The Honeymoon, Simmons jokes about this being their honeymoon, implying they recently got married.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: Fitz and Simmons have been confined to the Lighthouse and occupied with the rift problem. Some people delay their honeymoons because they have to.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: I can't see it being up to 4 months after their December 6, 2017 wedding, so then The Honeymoon would be no later than April 6, 2018, and the Snap is 11 days later so around April 17, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, April 19, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 1/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 9/10.
            Overall: 1 - (9 ÷ 10) × 1 = 0.1.
      • In The Devil Complex, Mack is testing Yo-Yo's newly made robotic arms. They got the arms from Hale's mechs in Principia. Considering how fast they usually work, it really shouldn't take them very long to make the arms.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: Fitz and Simmons are likely devoting most of their time to the more urgent and severe problem of closing the rift. Mack is also helping, but they are also limited by their situation in terms of resources, and maybe wanted to be especially cautious to make sure the arms didn't have any underlying evil programming.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: I can't see it being up to 6 weeks after they got the arms on December 18, 2017, so then The Devil Complex would be no later than January 29, 2018, and the Snap is 14 days later so around February 12, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, February 15, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 3/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 4.5/10.
            Overall: 3 - (4.5 ÷ 10) × 3 = 1.65.
      • In The Devil Complex, Mack says to Yo-Yo, "Your arms aren't fully healed yet. What you need is time." Yo-Yo: "My arms may not work, but my eyes do. At least let me sit in Control, keep an eye out for anomalies." Mack: "Maybe, but you have to allow yourself to heal. We'll handle the fighting for now." As well as this, Yo-Yo is still in her hospital-esque bed for a lot of the episode. This implies that Yo-Yo is still healing and still needs to be taken care of, which shouldn't be for more than a couple of months absolute maximum.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: Mack's just being overprotective, Simmons is being overly cautious, Yo-Yo's also struggling psychologically, and they also need to keep working with her to program the arms and don't want her to get going again until the arms are ready.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: Yo-Yo should really be out of her bed by 2 months on after December 4, 2017, so then The Devil Complex would be no later than February 4, 2018, and the Snap is 14 days later so around February 18, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, February 15, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 5/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 3.5/10.
            Overall: 5 - (3.5 ÷ 10) × 5 = 3.25.
      • In The Devil Complex, Deke's still a bit dazed about having worked out that Fitz and Simmons are his grandparents.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: Deke might have just been mulling that over for a while.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: Deke should really be less dazed after a month or so after his discovery on December 18, 2017, so then The Devil Complex would be no later than January 18, 2018, and the Snap is 14 days later so around February 1, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, February 1, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 1.5/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 5/10.
            Overall: 1.5 - (5 ÷ 10) × 1.5 = 0.75.
      • In The Devil Complex, Fitz says, "Well, I've temporarily plugged the dam, but it could burst at any minute, releasing more of these anomalies into the base." The phrasing implies the temporary plugging was recent.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: Fitz has temporarily plugged the dam again more recently but it's a losing battle, which is also aware why now it's "any minute" when it wasn't so urgent before.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: The implication from the tone of the dialogue is that it's no more than a month since the patching on December 6, 2017, so then The Devil Complex would be no later than January 6, 2018, and the Snap is 14 days later so around January 20, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, January 18, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 2.5/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 5.5/10.
            Overall: 2.5 - (5.5 ÷ 10) × 2.5 = 1.125.
      • In The Devil Complex, Coulson says to Piper, "Good first stop on your redemption tour," so this is her first chance at redeeming herself, which shouldn't have taken potentially up to 6 months.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: It's fine, not much seems to have happened so there's no particular chance it would appear she could have had - plus it probably took them a little while to begin to trust her again anyway.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: This could really be anywhere up to 6 months after her betrayal on December 4, 2017, so then The Devil Complex would be no later than June 4, 2018, and the Snap is 14 days later so around June 18, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, June 21, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 0.5/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 8.5/10.
            Overall: 0.5 - (8.5 ÷ 10) × 0.5 = 0.075.
      • In The Devil Complex, Daisy asks Fitz, "Are you okay? Have you even slept?" Fitz responds, "During what possible period of time, Daisy?" This seems to imply that he hasn't been sleeping much in the days since they first plugged the rift, desperately trying to find a way to resolve it. But we know because of Principia and because of Yo-Yo's arm stumps that it's been at least a few weeks since The Real Deal at any rate so he can't literally be referring to having not slept since they got back, and has to really just be referring to recently, or even since he last spoke to her.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: He's just referring to recently when he's been frantic.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: This could be up to a month after the closure on December 6, 2017, so then The Devil Complex would be no later than January 6, 2018, and the Snap is 14 days later so around January 20, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, January 18, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 1/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 8/10.
            Overall: 1 - (8 ÷ 10) × 1 = 0.2.

      How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: ([March 8, 2018] × 2.6 + [February 1, 2018] × 3 + [April 19, 2018] × 0.1 + [February 15, 2018] × 1.65 + [February 15, 2018] × 3.25 + [February 1, 2018] × 0.75 + [January 18, 2018] × 1.125 + [June 21, 2018] × 0.075 + [January 18, 2018] × 0.2) ÷ (2.6 + 3 + 0.1 + 1.65 + 3.25 + 0.75 + 1.125 + 0.075 + 0.2) = February 13.49020, 2018.

      How strong is the evidence?: 2.6 + 3 + 0.1 + 1.65 + 3.25 + 0.75 + 1.125 + 0.075 + 0.2 = 12.75.


      Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Hard Evidence for Early 2018

      • In The Devil Complex, snow is shown on the ground, suggesting it is still winter.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: They're just fairly high north. Even so, you could be hitting summer which is tricky.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: This could be up to the end of March really, so then The Devil Complex would be no later than March 31, 2018, and the Snap is 14 days later so around April 14, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, April 12, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 3/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 4.5/10.
            Overall: 3 - (4.5 ÷ 10) × 3 = 1.65.
      • In Rise and Shine, Coulson says to Hale, "Listen, my team wasn't hiding all these months. We traveled to the future." From this, it can be taken that it has only been "months" since May 12, 2017, when the agents were sent to the future. While it has to now be 2018, it should not be later than early 2018. As well as this, this piece of dialogue suggests that the amount of time that his team have been back in the present is negligible, because he is generalising the whole time since May 12, 2017 as the time that they were not around, but in the future. It should at least be less than a month so their time back doesn't consist of a "month" that could be added to the "months", for the "months" to only encompass their times away. If they'd been back more than a month he should say "all those months".
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: While it's not the end of the world for Coulson to call 13 months "all these months", the other part you can't really justify. You can just assume that Coulson misspoke and since they were gone slightly longer than they've been back, he can generalise the time as the majority being when they were away, but that's poor and doesn't really make sense.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: This could be up to just under a month since they returned, so then it would be no later than January 3, 2018, and the Snap is 13 days later so around January 16, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday before, January 11, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 7/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 2/10.
            Overall: 7 - (2 ÷ 10) × 7 = 5.6.
      • In Missing Pieces, Enoch says he was going to protect Fitz for the next "73 years, 261 days". The team are in "Earth Year 2-0-9-1" in Season 5, Part 1. Plus that's supported by the 2017 + "74 years later". If they left the future as early as possible, December 31, 2091, then since Fitz wakes 4 days prior, the latest he can possibly have woken is December 27, 2091. Even if Fitz were to wake as late as possible, the latest this scene could be is then April 10, 2018. Except the scene is implied to a) be after The End, just due to the way these stories are told, and b) in the new timeline, so after The End, because it can't really have happened in the original timeline, which it would have to if it was pre-timeline split.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: I've been making notes about the exact details of what happened after the ship was split in two to try and work out a way that this could have also happened in the original timeline and the divergence point only occurred a while after the ship is split, at the time of The End. So far, it's not impossible.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: The timeline parting, the same day as the Snap, would have to be no later than April 10, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday before, April 5, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 8.5/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 4/10.
            Overall: 8.5 - (4 ÷ 10) × 8.5 = 5.1.
      • In Fear and Loathing on the Planet of Kitson, Enoch says he was going to orbit Jupiter with Fitz for the next "72 years, 312 days". The team are in "Earth Year 2-0-9-1" in Season 5, Part 1. Plus that's supported by the 2017 + "74 years later". If they left the future as early as possible, December 31, 2091, then since Fitz wakes 4 days prior, the latest he can possibly have woken is December 27, 2091. So the latest Season 6, Episode 3 could possibly be, if Fitz were to wake on the latest possible date of December 27, 2091, is February 18, 2019. But the show is 13 months on from Season 5 (Coulson lived longer than expected after the Season 5 finale so lived closer to the "weeks" Simmons mentioned, plus it's mentioned that Fitz died more than a year ago), so Season 5 would have to finish in January 2018.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: You could argue for it being not Earth years but somewhere else, but the universal translator should be translating to Earth years and it's so close to Earth years. You could argue the destination date changed in the new timeline, but they don't know the timeline has changed nor that the agents won't be there in the future, they think they are - the date shouldn't change. You could argue that Season 5, Episodes 1-4 span months into 2092 so Fitz wakes in 2092 but that's pretty much impossible. This is really reaching. It also doesn't account for the Episode 1 261 days line - sure, that can be separately dealt with as I've mentioned, with its own stretch of the imagination working out how it could fit into the stem timeline for the first couple of months after it, but that's also a stretch and it seems odd to not have the Episode 1 and Episode 3 scenes 314 days apart when they couple like that. Honestly, there's no obvious explanation.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: This is the 1-year anniversary of Coulson's death, so Coulson would've had to have died by February 18, 2018, and he died after at least 1.5 weeks, so the Snap would be no later than February 7, 2018, so the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday before, February 1, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 9/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 1/10.
            Overall: 9 - (1 ÷ 10) × 9 = 8.1.

      How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: ([April 12, 2018] × 1.65 + [January 11, 2018] × 5.6 + [April 5, 2018] × 5.1 + [February 1, 2018] × 8.1) ÷ (1.65 + 5.6 + 5.1 + 8.1) = February 16.60880, 2018.

      How strong is the evidence?: 1.65 + 5.6 + 5.1 + 8.1 = 20.45.


      Film Soft Evidence for Early 2018

      • When Thanos attacks the Statesman, it is seemingly reasonably soon after Thor: Ragnarok. This implication comes from the fact that when the mid-credits scene of Thor: Ragnarok begins, minutes before Avengers: Infinity War, Loki is asking Thor if he really thinks it is a good idea to go back to Earth - suggesting they only recently decided to head to Earth. Thor's hair is almost identical in Avengers: Infinity War to how it was cut in Thor: Ragnarok, right down to the poorly cut strips on the side of his head, suggesting there has been little time for his hair to grow. It is unclear how many resources are on-board the ship, and how well the Asgardians would be able to live on the ship, and for how long. But overall, from all these things, the shorter the gap, the better.
        • How could this be explained away if it's mid-2018?: With Loki, it could be argued that they are simply discussing it again as they get closer to Earth. With the hair, it could be argued that with Asgardians ageing slower, or otherwise, Asgardian hair could grow slower than humans' (though by 5 years later he has long hair again so maybe not that much slower). With resources, it is possible that they had resources on-board from Sakaar, or that they stopped off for resources along the way. They're 22 jump points from Asgard and we know from Captain Marvel that jump points aren't just easy to get to - in that case they were a day away from the next one. It could take a while to travel between them. The 22 jump points supports that some time has passed.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: No more than 3 months should really pass from November 21, 2017, so no later really than February 21, 2018, the Snap is the next day so shouldn't really be later than February 22, 2018, the Snap could've been no later really than the Thursday closest, February 22, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 6/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 4/10.
            Overall: 6 - (4 ÷ 10) × 6 = 3.6.

      How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: February 22, 2018.

      How strong is the evidence?: 1.65 + 5.6 + 5.1 + 8.1 = 3.6.


      Film Hard Evidence Supporting Mid-2018

      • Ant-Man and the Wasp has Scott finishing his 2-year house arrest, which should end on June 20, 2018.
        • How could this be explained away if it's early 2018?: Scott got some sort of good behaviour 3-month reduction.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: The Snap is 8 days later, so June 28, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 9.5/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 2/10.
            Overall: 9.5 - (2 ÷ 10) × 9.5 = 7.6.
      • Ant-Man and the Wasp includes a "4/30/2018" laptop date.
        • How could this be explained away if it's early 2018?: Misprogrammed laptop date.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: The house arrest would end on May 2/3, 2018, then the Snap would be May 10, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 5.5/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 4/10.
            Overall: 5.5 - (4 ÷ 10) × 5.5 = 3.3.
      • Other time references both in the films and from external sources: 6 years since The Avengers, 4 years since Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, 2 years since Captain America: Civil War, work better with mid-2018 than early 2018, but early 2018 is still possible. Overall, add about 3.5 because it's not about the strength of the evidence but just how much it leans one way.
          • Overall: 3.5.

      How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: ([June 28, 2018] × 7.6 + [May 10, 2018] × 3.3) ÷ (7.6 + 3.3) = June 13.16514, 2018.

      How strong is the evidence?: 7.6 + 3.3 + 3.5 = 14.4.


      The Punisher Hard Evidence Supporting Mid-2018

      • The main events of The Punisher: Season 2 take place April 27, 2018-May 17, 2018. There is no way it's just 3 months after the Snap, it should really be before.
        • How could this be explained away if it's early 2018?: The world has just moved on somewhat, very quickly. Highly unlikely.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: Thursday right after the main events, May 17, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 10/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 0.5/10.
            Overall: 10 - (0.5 ÷ 10) × 10 = 9.5.
      • The main events of The Punisher: Season 2 take place April 27, 2018-May 17, 2018. If it were after the Snap, you would have to believe Frank, Billy, Curtis, Karen, Matt (referenced), Mahoney, Rafi, Marion, and Turk all survived, which there's a 1 in 512 chance of.
        • How could this be explained away if it's early 2018?: All these characters survived the Snap.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: Thursday right after the main events, May 17, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 8.5/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 0.5/10.
            Overall: 8.5 - (0.5 ÷ 10) × 10 = 8.
      • The main events of The Punisher: Season 2 take place April 27, 2018-May 17, 2018. Jeph Loeb indirectly says they take place before the Snap.
        • How could this be explained away if it's early 2018?: The comment is not directly about The Punisher: Season 2. As well as this, as evidenced by his Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 comments, it's all he really could say. But if it's early 2018, again, you encounter the problems mentioned above, so there's still all those problems so you're not excusing much.
          • How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: Thursday right after the main events, May 17, 2018.
          • How strong is the evidence?: 7/10.
            How convincing is the explanation?: 0.5/10.
            Overall: 7 - (0.5 ÷ 10) × 10 = 6.65.

      How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: May 17, 2018.

      How strong is the evidence?: 9.5 + 8 + 6.65 = 24.15.


      Conclusion

      OK, so, the thing about this is that it's not about finding an in between date. Sometimes you try to find a compromise between different bits of evidence to best satisfy things. Sometimes you have to weigh evidence and go one way or another, like Cloak & Dagger, and like this.

      I'm about to calculate from the above evidence which way things are currently leaning. Whatever the result is, will have a look at which side it is closer to to see which way makes more sense.

      Now, the reason this is an either-way thing is either you completely accept certain bits of evidence or completely reject them. You don't just have Scott's house arrest end 2 weeks before the 2 years is up due to compromise, you either go the full 2 years or you drop that. You don't go 1 week before the end of The Punisher: Season 2 due to compromise, you either go after The Punisher: Season 2 or quite a while before to allow any sort of plausibility in it not being addressed. That sort of thing.

      The weights here are not set in stone and more just guidance to how things stack up (after all, this isn't like my Phase One blog or upcoming full project with detailed weightings and leniency etc.) like Cloak & Dagger: Season 1. Except with Cloak & Dagger: Season 1 it was sufficient to show the mostly clear option, and it doesn't seem like this will be so clear.

      OK, so there's a few options:

      • January 11, 2018 - As early as possible to maximise the time before The Punisher: Season 2. Ignores Ant-Man and the Wasp.
        • March 29, 2018 - If you decide Scott got his final 6 months halved. However, this is just impossibly close to The Punisher: Season 2. This option just no longer exists.
      • May 17, 2018 - As soon as possible after The Punisher: Season 2. Somewhat aligns with the April 30, 2018 Ant-Man and the Wasp date if you assume 2 weeks between the main events of Ant-Man and the Wasp and Avengers: Infinity War, which is annoying because it mixes up the order with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. only to potentially be put back how it was and also because it makes Natasha's line in Infinity War more difficult to swallow, but acceptable on its own.
      • June 28, 2018 - The 2 years of Scott's sentence.

      So there are three options here. However, the setup is not a case of "This evidence would ideally place this here and this here" and mathematically calculating the best placement. It's a case of just pulling either way between the two sides - earlier or later. This is why I have included the "How close to [the other side] can the Snap realistically be?", adding in that factor of how much give each side has. And from this, naturally, the result will fall somewhere in the middle - either extreme is already closer to the middle than January 11th and June 28th. It is thus hard to just go, "Well, the result is closest to May 17th so May 17th," because it will be, and that was not the point of this. The point of this was to consider weights and gives of either side then find the point between either end that the compromise would fall at if you were to compromise, and then round to the side it is closest to if appropriate. Therefore I will first treat it as simply the two options of January 11th and June 28th, and then see after I have the result how May 17th might factor in.

      The other problem is that each possible point does not have equal precedent. With Cloak & Dagger, it was simpler: You either have February 2015, February 2016, February 2017, or February 2018, because the February is set in stone and we're just weighing up each year. However, here the January 11th does not actually have a specific provided date it is fitting, it is simply the "earliest possible" date. May 17th does not really have a specific provided date it is fitting, though is linked with an actual date - the "4/30/2018". And the June 28th does actually have a specific precedent, as June 20th is specifically from the end of the 2-year sentence and June 28th is the latest that Avengers: Infinity War can end due to Peter's school so they're squeezed in in a more concrete placement. If you go with a result with more specific precedence in the evidence, you are more concretely satisfying a chunk of evidence. Whatever you do you have to throw out some evidence, but if you went for May 17th, for example, you are throwing out either side to some degree, whereas if you go for June 28th you are throwing out the evidence for earlier even more (but some of it is either "it works" or "it doesn't" and if you were to go for May 17th you'd also be throwing it out anyway, so the difference in satisfaction is not all proportional to the distance from the ideal answer) but fully fitting the evidence for later, providing a more satisfying and decisive answer.

      Therefore perhaps the June 28th should therefore have a larger catchment area than January 11th - that it's not just rounding either way, but June 28th has a "stronger pull", like a stronger magnet. When you factor in the May 17th as well, the catchment areas of what result should round to what become very complicated. Imagine a case where it's January 11th, June 21st, or June 28th, and there's much more precedent for June 28th than June 21st. If the result were say June 20th, it's not only closest to June 21st but it's also on the other side of June 21st than June 28th is, so you might not even consider that June 28th would come into play. And yet if you're as far as June 20th, it makes more sense to just push it those extra 7 days to fit the one with extra precedent. So you can't even divide the gaps between each possible date in a weighted manner because it's possible the reach of June 28th could extend to even before May 17th, and therefore the reach for May 17th is a short window that actually ends before May 17th. It's all very complicated, and I'm not sure how to account for this "magnet factor" yet.

      So, for now, let's just first address it as two sides, January 11th and June 28th, and see what that yields, then just take a specific look at that result and what I feel about it, and then bring May 17th into the picture and have a look at how I feel about that.

      So, with that said:

      ([February 13.49020, 2018] × 12.75 + [February 16.60880, 2018] × 20.45 + [February 22, 2018] × 3.6 + [June 13.16514, 2018] × 14.4 + [May 17, 2018] × 24.15) ÷ (12.75 + 20.45 + 3.6 + 14.4 + 24.15) = April 8.26381, 2018.

      Again, this actual date is not important and of course not the one to go with (this is exactly what I was discussing - if you go with April 8th you completely mess up The Punisher and are satisfying neither camp). It's about what it represents: the middle of the tug of war rope between either side, earliest and latest, is 52% the distance from earliest to latest (slightly on latest's side). This is 87.26381 days from January 11th, 80.73619 days from June 28th, so it slightly leans in that direction (plus that direction has more precedence so even if it were 83:85 you might still go in the 85 direction).

      But now let's factor May 17th in. As mentioned, the catchment for rounding to May 17th is not necessarily March 15th-June 7th, or whatever similar. The later boundary is not necessarily even after May 17th, as, as mentioned, there is an argument to be made that May 16th might even be worth rounding to June 28th, depending on how much you put into this idea of precedent for each date and, "If it's this far, it might as well go all the way."

      However, April 8th? It is hard to argue that once you have introduced the May 17th date, its catchment region ends as early as pre-April 8th/June 28th's catchment region extends so far earlier than May 17th that it reaches April 8th. So it would overall seem that the way the tug of war is going, May 17th is the most comfortable point at the moment.

      But this is not necessarily permanent. This is not a clear-cut case with an outstanding big majority result.

      As more evidence is added, it could tip things more towards June 28th, or could just make the struggle even more difficult. Certainly for me at least, if the calculation is hitting May 1st or later as the result, you can round that all the way to the June 28th answer. Possibly earlier. All because of that idea of just going all the way to at least satisfy one side more fully rather than in taking a compromise (which May 17th is in some regards), not satisfying either side because while the compromises for the pieces of evidence which are about the distance from the ideal total the same inconvenience either way, if you sit at May 17th you throw out the pieces of evidence which are make or break, either "it is firmly this way" or "it's not", out on both sides, when settling for either side allows you to keep one set at least.

      My ultimate conclusion at the moment is this: We still can't definitively place the dates for these events, but we can take some things from this analysis:

      • When you're looking at the evidence as two sides pulling, the evidence only just pulls towards June 28th, but when you consider it as three possible placements, the evidence is definitely far enough towards May 17th at least that we can comfortably for now say it is "May 17th-June 28th, post-The Punisher: Season 2", and that we don't have the option of March anymore (previously saying "March-June"), nor is it likely that evidence will amount to pull things right back to the beginning of the year. This gives us a narrower window to work with, as well as allowing us to more comfortably have the 2018 page structured with The Punisher: Season 2, then these events, then The Punisher: Season 2's epilogue. We might also rename "Spring/Early Summer" to "May/June", again more specific, so progress.
      • With this near-cementing of The Punisher: Season 2 being pre-Infinity War, we can also structure watch orders more conclusively.
      • With this narrowed field of possible Infinity War placements, we can also more narrowly place Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6.
      • When it comes to calculations, such as to do with character ages in Infinity War or whatever, we can use the May 17th date for now. Because those calculations are not about rounding a date one way or another but just getting as close as possible, and May 17th functions for now as, at least, a circa date usable for approximations.

      I personally don't find May 17th satisfying for the reasons explained - it can be argued that you might as well go all the way to June 28th. So again, I am not saying this is the placement. But it's a step in the direction towards a placement.

      Let's hope Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. doesn't continue to contradict this with lines like that Enoch one.

      And with the inconclusiveness of this analysis, one might ask, "What if we never receive another piece of evidence?" Well, my answer to that is that I would put in a lot of work to undergo a more specific and accurate complicated process to actually make a final decision. But since we have reason to believe that more evidence has a good chance of coming in the near future, I think it is worth holding off on a conclusive decision for now. The results of this analysis were not fruitless, because we can still make some edits to the 2018 page making things more specific, just not all the way.

      Also, it's good to collate all the evidence.


      Footnote

      Out of interest, what would've happened if I'd finished this analysis a few days ago before that Enoch line?:

      How close to mid-2018 can the Snap realistically be?: ([April 12, 2018] × 1.65 + [January 11, 2018] × 5.6 + [April 5, 2018] × 5.1) ÷ (1.65 + 5.6 + 5.1) = February 26.84615, 2018 instead of February 16.60880, 2018.

      How strong is the evidence?: 1.65 + 5.6 + 5.1 = 12.35 instead of 20.45.

      ([February 13.49020, 2018] × 12.75 + [February 26.84615, 2018] × 12.35 + [February 22, 2018] × 3.6 + [June 13.16514, 2018] × 14.4 + [May 17, 2018] × 24.15) ÷ (12.75 + 12.35 + 3.6 + 14.4 + 24.15) = April 16.24503, 2018. A little bit more decisively in that later direction. That line is certainly annoying because it's a step backwards when it felt like things were finally heading in one direction.

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    • At this point, I don't think the 2017 date for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D should stay.

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    • That doesn't solve things. It resolves the soft evidence for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., but does nothing to deal with the hard evidence such as the "all these months" line or Enoch's lines.

      And you're throwing out five pieces of evidence that work well together.

      As I've mentioned:

      BEJT wrote: Firstly, All the Comforts of Home, The Real Deal, and Principia are firmly December 2017 for five reasons:

      • The Real Deal has a "12-06-2017" date.
      • Principia has a "12-17-2017" date.
      • The agents are said to have only been gone for "months".
      • "Tidings of comfort and joy" line implying Christmas-time.
      • All the Comforts of Home refers to Thor: Ragnarok's events, implying them to be very recent.

      Even if The Devil Complex to The End were to be moved right to June 2018, it works better to have a 6-month jump (even though that's hard) and keep those first three episodes in December 2017 than move them to Spring 2018. So moving those episodes from December 2017 is not in question.

      Since all you're resolving here is "Should Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. have a big time jump or should it ignore December 2017 and have Episodes 11-13 closer to Infinity War?" (the impact of this does not make a difference to anything else), it would make more sense for even a 6-month time jump than to ditch the December date. Ultimately that's all that matters here.

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    • I'm partial to the snap happening in late May, and Scott was freed a month earlier for some reason and Nat and the others weren't aware of that. But I don't know if it works accounting all the evidence and is a little arbitrary. I do feel like somewhere between May 17th and June 28th is where it should be.

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    • I would love if it is right after the ending of Season 2 of The Punisher, before the epilogue. That would be crazy.

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    • So, Jessica Jones is coming out on the 14th... Anyone else fully expecting to cry and scream as Netflix kills the timeline with its death throes?

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    • Nah. I am very sure they won't. With the Netflix shows they have the leniency to place them where they want and if it were to be 2017 I would be very happy for it. It would be so exciting to have four shows happening at the same time. Sure, it won't be easy xD but it would be so cool.

      P.S.: Also, my birthday will be that Sunday and I want to be happy hahaha

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    • I don't recall but was it stated how long Mar-Vell was on Earth? I noticed on the Light-Speed Engine blueprint, there might be a August 3, 1978 date on there (upside down as 080378) implying the start date of the project and also she's been around since at least the late 70s.

      Oh yeah, and a still of Fury's ID was also uploaded.

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    • Iron Man 3 reference in Episode 2.06

      Tandy and Liam (dialogue) "Did you know that the shorebirds have been dying off for 20 years? Wow, they have? Yeah, ever since Roxxon Gulf moved to Pensacola."

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    • Great catch!

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    • 2018 (DaenerysTheMadKhal58, Marvelus)

      DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: I'm partial to the snap happening in late May, and Scott was freed a month earlier for some reason and Nat and the others weren't aware of that. But I don't know if it works accounting all the evidence and is a little arbitrary. I do feel like somewhere between May 17th and June 28th is where it should be.

      Yeah my main problem with May 17th is that it feels a little arbitrary. Sure, it's somewhat based on the April 30th date, but there's the additional week in there which is only there for convenience's sake for The Punisher rather than an in-universe reason.

      Other problems:

      • It does still involve assumptions about Scott's house arrest. Either it started late and he had 3 months knocked off, which we think might not actually be a thing in California, or it was cut off about 6 weeks early for some strange reason.
      • It adds an extra week between Ant-Man and the Wasp and Avengers: Infinity War. Far from the end of the world, but makes Natasha's line more difficult to swallow.
      • The April 30th being a Monday isn't ideal, should really be a Sunday so would involve some fudging.

      And then there's just some inconveniences which shouldn't affect the actual timeline calculations but do affect my reluctance to make a definitive decision yet:

      • Extracting Ant-Man and the Wasp from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. to move it a week back only to potentially have to reinsert it.
      • Changing the days of the week of Ant-Man and the Wasp only to potentially have to reset them.
      • Moving Ant-Man and the Wasp and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. into the The Punisher region and getting all tangled up about things happening on the same dates and interweaving events only to just untangle them again.

      I've also just realised I might have made a mistake - while May 17th would be after the end of The Punisher: Season 2, it would be mere hours later and mean that the Attack on Greenwich Village happened during the finale. That said, it would squeeze in between finding Billy's body and Frank visiting the Schultzes, so could potentially just be explained as the characters just not mentioning it just in that Schultzes scene or the bus scene the next morning, just hours before the Snap. So maybe it could still be the 17th rather than 24th.

      It's very possible that the date ends up as the final date, but I hope you understand why I feel we should still hold off definitively saying for now. I'm in the process of editing the 2018 page with "April/May/June" up to the second day of Ant-Man and the Wasp, "May/June" for everything after that up to the end of Avengers: Infinity War, and "June/July" for the Captain Marvel credits scene and beginning of Avengers: Endgame, as well as editing the big 2018 reference. And also because we're not definitively deciding an interweaving with The Punisher: Season 2, I'm just leaving Ant-Man and the Wasp/Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. intertwined for now and just after all of The Punisher: Season 2 for the sake of keeping the structure simple. The "April/May/June" should be enough to say, "It might not actually be this clear-cut," to the reader.

      Like I said, I think this was still a successful attempt because we do now have a more specific window to work with and an approximate date. It was also worth waiting for Avengers: Endgame, because while that film didn't really provide any new evidence, it did have big implications on the impact of The Punisher: Season 2 on Avengers: Infinity War because it revealed that the Snap is not just reversed.

      I'm glad that you agree "somewhere between May 17th and June 28th is where it should be".

      Marvelus wrote: I would love if it is right after the ending of Season 2 of The Punisher, before the epilogue. That would be crazy.

      Any reason in particular? Just the feeling of watching The Whirlwind and knowing what's about to happen?


      Jessica Jones: Season 3 (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Marvelus)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: So, Jessica Jones is coming out on the 14th... Anyone else fully expecting to cry and scream as Netflix kills the timeline with its death throes?

      Personally looking forward to Loeb's "before the Snap comment". Any day now😂.

      Marvelus wrote: Nah. I am very sure they won't. With the Netflix shows they have the leniency to place them where they want and if it were to be 2017 I would be very happy for it. It would be so exciting to have four shows happening at the same time. Sure, it won't be easy xD but it would be so cool.

      P.S.: Also, my birthday will be that Sunday and I want to be happy hahaha

      I really hate the idea of the Netflix seasons breaking their chronological order in the very last one... but obviously also don't like the idea of it being 2018. 2019 is I guess also an option but unlike Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., there's more down time and day-to-day life in these Netflix shows so I can't see it not being mentioned even in October 2019, and it's very unlikely it'll place itself then anyway.

      If you want your birthday to be happy, you might just have to avoid Jessica Jones: Season 3 and the wiki until after your birthday so you don't have to know it's been another mess😂.


      Captain Marvel (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: I don't recall but was it stated how long Mar-Vell was on Earth? I noticed on the Light-Speed Engine blueprint, there might be a August 3, 1978 date on there (upside down as 080378) implying the start date of the project and also she's been around since at least the late 70s.

      Oh yeah, and a still of Fury's ID was also uploaded.

      Thanks. I'm not 100% sure that's a date because there's no "0" before the "8", so it's missing a digit. Possibly though.


      Cloak & Dagger Iron Man 3 Reference (MrRLopez, Marvelus)

      MrRLopez wrote:

      Iron Man 3 reference in Episode 2.06

      Tandy and Liam (dialogue) "Did you know that the shorebirds have been dying off for 20 years? Wow, they have? Yeah, ever since Roxxon Gulf moved to Pensacola."

      Ah thank you! I didn't remember that the Roxxon incident mentioned in Iron Man 3 was specifically in Pensacola (it's not a place I'm familiar with, the name probably just didn't stick in my head), so didn't read anything more into that line than just another general Roxxon reference. That's great.

      Marvelus wrote: Great catch!

      Yeah, and a fun reference. Haven't had an Iron Man 3 reference since Extremis in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1.

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    • BEJT, thanks for wishing me luck in University! I have been doing nice lately, except for my last Physics exam. I got 7/18. Damn.

      About Punisher S2 being immediately before Infinity War is exciting due to what is about to happen. It is very exciting to me that idea.

      I am not stressing too much about Timeline right now man. After Homecoming... I cannot longer be destroyed >:v

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    • If the crash happen in 1990. This means we need to change it from 1989 to 1990. 

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    • Nope. We know it is 1989. It id explictly dated in the movie to be 1989. That is just another piece of evidence that has like 5% of relevance. We can use the date tho. And we can say that when S.H.I.E.L.D. faked the files, they moved the accident to a year later.

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    • Or it was a photo taken during a follow-up visit to the crash site.

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    • Cloak & Dagger: We last saw Lia unconscious in the hospital. This episode ends with her doing community service by the side of the road, meaning she had time to wake up, be tried in court, and be sentenced (how she got such a light sentence is beyond me).

      Since the final scene implies Tyrone and Tandy are heading from LA to L.A. (a little acronym joke) and will crossover with the Runaways, the show has to jump from October 2017 to early 2018, which is pretty reasonable given Lia's circumstances.

      I wonder how long Tyrone and Tandy will be in L.A. during Season 3, as the show actually does film in Louisiana and I doubt they'd get rid of not only O'Reilly, but Mina and Evita, who are integral to the plot, not to mention Melissa and the Johnsons who carry a lot of the emotional weight in the show.

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    • Hell yeah!!! I cannot wait to catch up the TV Show!

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    • I'm stoked they set up the crossover but to explain where C&D are relative to the events of Runaways S1 and 2... it's a long way from NO and LA, and maybe they had to deal with other trouble they encountered first before making it to LA.

      The pessimist in me is concerned there's the potential timeline screw ups could migrate to Runaways' timeline (Yeah, groaned at Mina's "last year" line in the season finale). But they did neatly set it the crossover. The newspaper we never get to see seems to correctly refer to the dumped bodies from Runaways season 1 which the news like WHiH covered which was December 2017 which C&D S2 should be roughly ending in. Maybe one of the few things they got right this season, heh.

      Makes me wonder if the crossover will be a mini arc event in both Runaways season 3 and Cloak & Dagger season 3 (like how the CW DC shows do their annual crossovers) like 2 episodes per series for a 4 part crossover. Then at the same time, both show's season arcs continue, Magistrate and his family in Runaways and whoever the new big bad will be for C&D.

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    • C&D S2's main events end around November 4th or 5th, I think. I guess it's possible that a month passed, certainly not the worst it could be. I'm thinking they'll appear in Runaways S3 for some episodes, and then C&D S3 would open with their return to New Orleans (maybe an episode in LA still).

      At this point, the 2017 placement of C&D is the only one that would make the crossover make sense. If the bodies on the beach are a recent thing (and a reference to the same in Runaways) then that's definitive confirmation that S1 of C&D takes place prior to the beginning of Runaways.

      Hoping we get the crossover and it works out nicely.

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    • Personal Lives (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: BEJT, thanks for wishing me luck in University! I have been doing nice lately, except for my last Physics exam. I got 7/18. Damn.

      About Punisher S2 being immediately before Infinity War is exciting due to what is about to happen. It is very exciting to me that idea.

      I am not stressing too much about Timeline right now man. After Homecoming... I cannot longer be destroyed >:v

      Hope things continue to go OK. My final exam is on Monday and then I will have, through to late September, a lot of free time. Hope to get a lot done on here!


      Captain Marvel (Mrmichaelt, LoreMaster22, Marvelus)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: More Captain Marvel stuff. The crash dated June 23, 1990, the June 1995 calendar, the July 1988 Guns and Roses ticket.

      Thanks. I did wonder when I saw the film if any of the files might have dates, or that ticket.

      Shame it says 1990, otherwise we'd have a firm date for the crash. Guess it's just a picture taken a year later. Bit of a stretch but oh well.

      Good to see they got the days of the week correct for June 1995.

      LoreMaster22 wrote: If the crash happen in 1990. This means we need to change it from 1989 to 1990. 

      It's explicitly 1989. That photo could say "Taken on the day of Dr. Lawson's lightspeed engine crash: 06/23/1990" and it still would be 1989.

      Marvelus wrote: Nope. We know it is 1989. It id explictly dated in the movie to be 1989. That is just another piece of evidence that has like 5% of relevance. We can use the date tho. And we can say that when S.H.I.E.L.D. faked the files, they moved the accident to a year later.

      I don't think we should use the date since the evidence doesn't have to be thrown out if we just assume it's a later photo, therefore having no bearing on the date of the accident.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Or it was a photo taken during a follow-up visit to the crash site.

      Agreed.


      Cloak & Dagger: Season 2 Finale (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Marvelus, Mrmichaelt, DaenerysTheMadKhal58)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Cloak & Dagger: We last saw Lia unconscious in the hospital. This episode ends with her doing community service by the side of the road, meaning she had time to wake up, be tried in court, and be sentenced (how she got such a light sentence is beyond me).

      Since the final scene implies Tyrone and Tandy are heading from LA to L.A. (a little acronym joke) and will crossover with the Runaways, the show has to jump from October 2017 to early 2018, which is pretty reasonable given Lia's circumstances.

      I wonder how long Tyrone and Tandy will be in L.A. during Season 3, as the show actually does film in Louisiana and I doubt they'd get rid of not only O'Reilly, but Mina and Evita, who are integral to the plot, not to mention Melissa and the Johnsons who carry a lot of the emotional weight in the show.

      I guess Lia could a lesser sentence due to being considered coerced/controlled.

      The main events of the finale are actually November 4, 2017, not October. But yeah, I'm guessing there's at least a month's jump to take us to after Destiny being killed, and that lines up. And there's room in there for more of a jump to be implemented if necessary.

      They don't actually say they're off to L.A. but we can assume. The reference is a bit clumsy. "Brigid said a bunch of girls were found dead on the beach, outside the city." It's intentionally a reference, but a) P.R.I.D.E. didn't just take girls, and b) as far as we know Destiny is the only one who was ever dumped on a beach, because it was the only sacrifice that failed. Oh well.

      Yeah, interesting with how it might tie back to New Orleans - unless they show up in Runaways: Season 3 and are back in New Orleans by the beginning of Cloak & Dagger: Season 3. I personally don't need any more Evita, I never cared for the Voudon stuff or Chantelle and Evita as characters. But it would be weird to drop O'Reilly and the parents, and they're still overdue to give Mina more presence/character in the show.

      I wonder why Tyrone can't just teleport there. Maybe there's a reason in the comics - that he has to know the place he's going to or it's more exhausting to travel greater distances or something.

      Also, must admit... I don't get the acronym joke😂.

      Marvelus wrote: Hell yeah!!! I cannot wait to catch up the TV Show!

      It's only a subtle reference at the end, though something else happens in that scene that I'd also been waiting for which I liked. I generally liked Season 2 a bit more than Season 1, though I sometimes find the show a little cringeworthy or like there's something not quite right about it. Maybe it's just because it's kind of unique in the MCU so doesn't feel like it quite fits in, and the timeline mess makes it maybe feel underproduced. And its handling of certain issues in the finale I thought were lacking subtlety or a bit odd.

      But a decent season, and I quite liked Andre as a villain.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: I'm stoked they set up the crossover but to explain where C&D are relative to the events of Runaways S1 and 2... it's a long way from NO and LA, and maybe they had to deal with other trouble they encountered first before making it to LA.

      The pessimist in me is concerned there's the potential timeline screw ups could migrate to Runaways' timeline (Yeah, groaned at Mina's "last year" line in the season finale). But they did neatly set it the crossover. The newspaper we never get to see seems to correctly refer to the dumped bodies from Runaways season 1 which the news like WHiH covered which was December 2017 which C&D S2 should be roughly ending in. Maybe one of the few things they got right this season, heh.

      Makes me wonder if the crossover will be a mini arc event in both Runaways season 3 and Cloak & Dagger season 3 (like how the CW DC shows do their annual crossovers) like 2 episodes per series for a 4 part crossover. Then at the same time, both show's season arcs continue, Magistrate and his family in Runaways and whoever the new big bad will be for C&D.

      Gah the Mina line... I'm so sick of this show's lack of care.

      I'm also concerned about Cloak & Dagger bringing its timeline problems with it (not that Runaways is perfect, but it's not as bad with continuity). But I'm a little optimistic, because for sake of ease I'm sure they'll just say "this is set after the last time you saw both sets of characters", and that would work out reasonably well. And yeah as you say, the December 2017 does line up about right.

      I would enjoy an event between the shows, though it seems unlikely since Runaways: Season 3 should be out around December/January, Cloak & Dagger: Season 3 not until a few months after I imagine, and the CW just has the one platform whereas this is two platforms (and Runaways has become an all-at-once show while Cloak & Dagger is still week-to-week).

      DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: C&D S2's main events end around November 4th or 5th, I think. I guess it's possible that a month passed, certainly not the worst it could be. I'm thinking they'll appear in Runaways S3 for some episodes, and then C&D S3 would open with their return to New Orleans (maybe an episode in LA still).

      At this point, the 2017 placement of C&D is the only one that would make the crossover make sense. If the bodies on the beach are a recent thing (and a reference to the same in Runaways) then that's definitive confirmation that S1 of C&D takes place prior to the beginning of Runaways.

      Hoping we get the crossover and it works out nicely.

      November 4th, correct.

      I think that as Edward Zachary Sunrose points out, with Lia's sentence, a month could definitely have passed.

      We're on the same page about how the crossover might work - a bit in Runaways: Season 3, and maybe a bit in Cloak & Dagger: Season 3, but yeah, I think they'll be back in New Orleans by an early point in Season 3.

      Yes, this does further support 2017. Hadn't even considered that, was more just thinking about how it's nice that it works - but yes.

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    • BEJT wrote:

      They don't actually say they're off to L.A. but we can assume. The reference is a bit clumsy. "Brigid said a bunch of girls were found dead on the beach, outside the city." It's intentionally a reference, but a) P.R.I.D.E. didn't just take girls, and b) as far as we know Destiny is the only one who was ever dumped on a beach, because it was the only sacrifice that failed. Oh well.

      Also, must admit... I don't get the acronym joke😂.

      Not only was Destiny the only girl found washed up on the beach, it wasn't on the outskirts of the city. It was pretty close by which is why all of PRIDE was freaking out it could lead back to them. I think it may have even been the beach that the kids met up at.

      The only thing I can imagine is that there was a serial killer previously drowning female victims and that's what gave Victor the idea to drown Destiny. But since the murder was blamed on the kids near instantly, and then on Darius weeks later, no one in the media had time to connect her to the serial killer, but third parties like O'Reilly did make the connection. That's wild speculation, though. Hopefully that gets clarified in their crossover.

      I imagine they'll first pop up in Runaways, where they track down the kids in order to get leads on the other girls since they were framed for Destiny. Once T&T realize Destiny wasn't connected to the serial killer, they go off and have C&D3 where they do track down the serial killer, then somehow get drawn back to New Orleans.

      And as for the acronym joke, Los Angeles is shortened to L.A. while New Orleans is in Louisiana, whose two letter state acronym (all 50 have it, as do DC [District of Columbia] and PR [Puerto Rico]) is LA. So T&T went from LA (Louisiana) to L.A. (Los Angeles).

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    • Cloak and Dagger

      Good points and idea about the serial killer and crossover. Plus these killings might not even had to do with Los Angeles yet. The killer could be mobile and made his/her way from the Gulf of Mexico to California and Brigid made the connection through an M.O. of sorts so the likely time skip between C&D S2 and S3 could catch them up in the timeline to Runaways S3 and T&T spend that time trying to track the killer down. As for how to return to New Orleans, I wonder if Pokaski stills has plans for Mr. Jip, I recall he strongly hinted at his cameo in that 1 episode of season 1.

      Agents of SHIELD

      Deke mentioned making a business connection at Burning Man. Which is traditionally August-September. So after season 5, that would mean he went to the 2018 Burning Man that took place from August 25 to September 3.

      The Phish concert he went to with Khan is flexible since they did a lot of touring in 2018-2019.

      At the end, Sequioa also mentions she's stealing Snow's look for Coachella which was April 12 to April 21, 2019...

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    • Mrmichaelt wrote:
      ==Cloak and Dagger==

      Good points and idea about the serial killer and crossover. Plus these killings might not even had to do with Los Angeles yet. The killer could be mobile and made his/her way from the Gulf of Mexico to California and Brigid made the connection through an M.O. of sorts so the likely time skip between C&D S2 and S3 could catch them up in the timeline to Runaways S3 and T&T spend that time trying to track the killer down. As for how to return to New Orleans, I wonder if Pokaski stills has plans for Mr. Jip, I recall he strongly hinted at his cameo in that 1 episode of season 1.

      Agents of SHIELD

      Deke mentioned making a business connection at Burning Man. Which is traditionally August-September. So after season 5, that would mean he went to the 2018 Burning Man that took place from August 25 to September 3.

      The Phish concert he went to with Khan is flexible since they did a lot of touring in 2018-2019.

      At the end, Sequioa also mentions she's stealing Snow's look for Coachella which was April 12 to April 21, 2019...

      True, the killer could be mobile. And considering how deeply connected the show is to Voudon and the Divine Pairing (which means they're forever tied to New Orleans as its protectors), T&T have to return to New Orleans at some point.

      As for Sequoia wearing Snowflake's look for Coachella, if this is at least 13 months after Season 5 and the Snap, she could be referring to Coachella 2020.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: True, the killer could be mobile. And considering how deeply connected the show is to Voudon and the Divine Pairing (which means they're forever tied to New Orleans as its protectors), T&T have to return to New Orleans at some point.

      I can see them revealing this person as the other half of Andre's divine pair but they never met -- as a stark contrast to Tandy and Tyrone.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: As for Sequoia wearing Snowflake's look for Coachella, if this is at least 13 months after Season 5 and the Snap, she could be referring to Coachella 2020.

      True, and more likely.

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    • Mrmichaelt wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: True, the killer could be mobile. And considering how deeply connected the show is to Voudon and the Divine Pairing (which means they're forever tied to New Orleans as its protectors), T&T have to return to New Orleans at some point.

      I can see them revealing this person as the other half of Andre's divine pair but they never met -- as a stark contrast to Tandy and Tyrone.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: As for Sequoia wearing Snowflake's look for Coachella, if this is at least 13 months after Season 5 and the Snap, she could be referring to Coachella 2020.

      True, and more likely.

      There isn't another Divine Pairing featuring Andre. If Season One gave us the correct information and all of it, then there's only two people every century who are linked together and save New Orleans from disaster.

      The two Native American children in the 1600's, the two high society brothers in the 1700's, the soldier and maiden in the 1800's, Captain America's gay uncles (my headcanon) in the 1900's, and Tandy and Ty in the 2000's.

      Ty and Tandy just happened to be powered by the same substance they would later have to protect the city from, since that was the only way they could defeat the Terror Infection. None of the other Divine Pairings had powers (that we know of), and out of the other people exposed to the substance directly (the Oil Rig Terrors, the Roxxon Terrors, Mayhem, Ivan, Andre) only Mayhem and Andre have developed actual powers, and they developed their powers 8 years apart so not likely to be a Divine Pairing.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: There isn't another Divine Pairing featuring Andre. If Season One gave us the correct information and all of it, then there's only two people every century who are linked together and save New Orleans from disaster.

      The two Native American children in the 1600's, the two high society brothers in the 1700's, the soldier and maiden in the 1800's, Captain America's gay uncles (my headcanon) in the 1900's, and Tandy and Ty in the 2000's.

      Ty and Tandy just happened to be powered by the same substance they would later have to protect the city from, since that was the only way they could defeat the Terror Infection. None of the other Divine Pairings had powers (that we know of), and out of the other people exposed to the substance directly (the Oil Rig Terrors, the Roxxon Terrors, Mayhem, Ivan, Andre) only Mayhem and Andre have developed actual powers, and they developed their powers 8 years apart so not likely to be a Divine Pairing.

      Yeah, I meant, that was my chief concern they might pull something like that and add on like they're a Divine Pairing meant to destroy, the other side of the coin. Like how the comics had Night and Day. BUT I'm actually all for the next villain having nothing to do with Darkforce, Vodun, or New Orleans.

      EDIT: Hmm, presumably, the new villain will have powers but how. Hmm. Darkforce from another source? Cybernetics, Vibranium, enhanced, Inhuman, IGH, alien?

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    • Cloak & Dagger/Runaways Crossover (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Mrmichaelt)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Not only was Destiny the only girl found washed up on the beach, it wasn't on the outskirts of the city. It was pretty close by which is why all of PRIDE was freaking out it could lead back to them. I think it may have even been the beach that the kids met up at.

      The only thing I can imagine is that there was a serial killer previously drowning female victims and that's what gave Victor the idea to drown Destiny. But since the murder was blamed on the kids near instantly, and then on Darius weeks later, no one in the media had time to connect her to the serial killer, but third parties like O'Reilly did make the connection. That's wild speculation, though. Hopefully that gets clarified in their crossover.

      I imagine they'll first pop up in Runaways, where they track down the kids in order to get leads on the other girls since they were framed for Destiny. Once T&T realize Destiny wasn't connected to the serial killer, they go off and have C&D3 where they do track down the serial killer, then somehow get drawn back to New Orleans.

      And as for the acronym joke, Los Angeles is shortened to L.A. while New Orleans is in Louisiana, whose two letter state acronym (all 50 have it, as do DC [District of Columbia] and PR [Puerto Rico]) is LA. So T&T went from LA (Louisiana) to L.A. (Los Angeles).

      Lol the reference is even worse then, wow. It's sort of relying on people only semi-remembering Runaways: Season 1, which most articles seem to be in the position of. But I just wish this show took a bit more care.

      The serial killer theory is obviously quite a bit of an assumption, but that's just because of the show being poor in its reference - given the poor wording, your theory is about as good of a justification as you can get. I don't think it will be clarified though in the crossover, I think it was just meant as a reference to Runaways: Season 1 and the exact details of it weren't considered. But you're right, there's a chance that when they meet a conversation involving the details they got from O'Reilly would be necessary.

      Ah, it was the Louisiana thing. I forgot about the state acronyms, so was puzzled about how New Orleans was "LA", sorry😂.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Good points and idea about the serial killer and crossover. Plus these killings might not even had to do with Los Angeles yet. The killer could be mobile and made his/her way from the Gulf of Mexico to California and Brigid made the connection through an M.O. of sorts so the likely time skip between C&D S2 and S3 could catch them up in the timeline to Runaways S3 and T&T spend that time trying to track the killer down. As for how to return to New Orleans, I wonder if Pokaski stills has plans for Mr. Jip, I recall he strongly hinted at his cameo in that 1 episode of season 1.

      Who's Mr. Jip?

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: True, the killer could be mobile. And considering how deeply connected the show is to Voudon and the Divine Pairing (which means they're forever tied to New Orleans as its protectors), T&T have to return to New Orleans at some point.

      Yeah the show's not done with New Orleans.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: I can see them revealing this person as the other half of Andre's divine pair but they never met -- as a stark contrast to Tandy and Tyrone.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: There isn't another Divine Pairing featuring Andre. If Season One gave us the correct information and all of it, then there's only two people every century who are linked together and save New Orleans from disaster.

      The two Native American children in the 1600's, the two high society brothers in the 1700's, the soldier and maiden in the 1800's, Captain America's gay uncles (my headcanon) in the 1900's, and Tandy and Ty in the 2000's.

      Ty and Tandy just happened to be powered by the same substance they would later have to protect the city from, since that was the only way they could defeat the Terror Infection. None of the other Divine Pairings had powers (that we know of), and out of the other people exposed to the substance directly (the Oil Rig Terrors, the Roxxon Terrors, Mayhem, Ivan, Andre) only Mayhem and Andre have developed actual powers, and they developed their powers 8 years apart so not likely to be a Divine Pairing.

      Yeah, Tandy and Tyrone are the Divine Pairing. Interesting theory about it being once a century, quite possible.

      I like your explanation there, that they got the powers together because it was fated that they would need them to save the city. Because otherwise it would be quite a coincidence that the Divine Pairing both got those powers. But that definitely makes sense.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Yeah, I meant, that was my chief concern they might pull something like that and add on like they're a Divine Pairing meant to destroy, the other side of the coin. Like how the comics had Night and Day. BUT I'm actually all for the next villain having nothing to do with Darkforce, Vodun, or New Orleans.

      EDIT: Hmm, presumably, the new villain will have powers but how. Hmm. Darkforce from another source? Cybernetics, Vibranium, enhanced, Inhuman, IGH, alien?

      I will also be glad for them to move on. When you've had villains related to the hero for a while, I like when things get changed up - a bit riskier and more interesting and fresh.


      Code Yellow (Mrmichaelt, Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Deke mentioned making a business connection at Burning Man. Which is traditionally August-September. So after season 5, that would mean he went to the 2018 Burning Man that took place from August 25 to September 3.

      The Phish concert he went to with Khan is flexible since they did a lot of touring in 2018-2019.

      At the end, Sequioa also mentions she's stealing Snow's look for Coachella which was April 12 to April 21, 2019...

      That's all fine. I don't think the Coachella reference is important, it can be about Coachella 2020. While we know that the episodes aren't always set exactly in real time, they're usually written, in terms of for a casual viewer, so that they don't have to think about the timeline, so the viewer should feel comfortable watching in May/June 2019 and seeing a Coachella reference and not go, "What? So it's set a few months ago?" The reference is supposed to feel comfortable for the viewer to mean next year's Coachella, so it feels comfortable for me. She's a social media influencer, I'm sure she talks about Coachella ideas all year round.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: As for Sequoia wearing Snowflake's look for Coachella, if this is at least 13 months after Season 5 and the Snap, she could be referring to Coachella 2020.

      Yeah.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: True, and more likely.

      This episode I felt was a little bit more problematic in a post-Snap world, since it's the most of the wider world we've seen in Season 6 so far, and everyone at Deke's company was very lighthearted and happy. But we're still just about safe.


      Personal Note (additional)

      I've finished exams now, and through to late September I'm going to have a lot of free time. Hope to get a lot done.

      Also, I was thinking - once Jessica Jones and Far from Home are out and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 finishes, we're going to have at least 4 straight months (August-December at least) of no MCU content whatsoever, until Runaways: Season 3. Sure I love always having new MCU content, but honestly, I like the break's relief as well.

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    • BEJT wrote: Lol the reference is even worse then, wow. It's sort of relying on people only semi-remembering Runaways: Season 1, which most articles seem to be in the position of. But I just wish this show took a bit more care.

      Yeah, for some reason stuff like that makes me wish even more Runaways and C&D were on Blu-ray for rewatching.

      BEJT wrote: Who's Mr. Jip?

      Back in episode 5 or 6 of season 1 when Tyrone saw Kev's fears (that runner with the backpack I think it was), he saw this ethereal Bogey-man like figure. Pokaski pretty much confirmed that was Jip in venues like SyFy Wire or that Nerdist after show last year. In the comics, he was a major enemy of C&D - evil wizard with a grotesque appearance, ex-student of Ancient One, seeks out the bodies of evil people to extend his life - in what is a not-so deep bench in their rogues gallery.

      BEJT wrote: I will also be glad for them to move on. When you've had villains related to the hero for a while, I like when things get changed up - a bit riskier and more interesting and fresh.

      Agreed, the Arrow and Flash CW series suffered, imo, for not doing that.

      BEJT wrote: This episode I felt was a little bit more problematic in a post-Snap world, since it's the most of the wider world we've seen in Season 6 so far, and everyone at Deke's company was very lighthearted and happy. But we're still just about safe.

      True, it's a toss up between Deke's idea to upend the food industry when there should be plenty of food available vs. the notion of the Framework-based game being a hit because it implicitly helps people avoids reality.

      BEJT wrote:

      Personal Note (additional)

      I've finished exams now, and through to late September I'm going to have a lot of free time. Hope to get a lot done.

      Also, I was thinking - once Jessica Jones and Far from Home are out and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 finishes, we're going to have at least 4 straight months (August-December at least) of no MCU content whatsoever, until Runaways: Season 3. Sure I love always having new MCU content, but honestly, I like the break's relief as well.

      Congrats on finishing out the (first?) year.

      Agreed. I, too, have nothing against the occasional break from new content.

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    • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. epiosdesode 6 synopsis confirms they travelled to an alternate reality in Season 5.

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    • Marvelus wrote:
      Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. epiosdesode 6 synopsis confirms they travelled to an alternate reality in Season 5.

      I think that could refer to the Framework? At the very least I'm not sure it "confirms" that this is an alternate reality. I've been lurking here for a bit and if I had to put in my two cents, I'd say wait it out, maybe they'll be able to explain the timeline better. If not, y'all also have said that there isn't technically enough evidence to prove that the Snap HASN'T happened yet, so we can assume that it did and the show is just doing a poor job of showing it.

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    • Marvelus wrote:
      Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. epiosdesode 6 synopsis confirms they travelled to an alternate reality in Season 5.

      Yeah, that seems like a reference to the Framework to me. It'd be weird to confirm that they're in an alternate reality in an episode synopsis, so unless they actually say this in the episode, we shouldn't assume anything.

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    • Well. I may have jumped the gun xD, but I am not referring to the Agentd returning to an alternate timeline other than Earth 199999, I mean they were sent to an alternste reality (timeline future) and then brought back to the main continuity. Hwoever, who am I to judge?

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    • Cloak & Dagger (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Back in episode 5 or 6 of season 1 when Tyrone saw Kev's fears (that runner with the backpack I think it was), he saw this ethereal Bogey-man like figure. Pokaski pretty much confirmed that was Jip in venues like SyFy Wire or that Nerdist after show last year. In the comics, he was a major enemy of C&D - evil wizard with a grotesque appearance, ex-student of Ancient One, seeks out the bodies of evil people to extend his life - in what is a not-so deep bench in their rogues gallery.

      Oh I see. Didn't realise that was anyone significant. Thanks for letting me know, I don't really read the comics.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Agreed, the Arrow and Flash CW series suffered, imo, for not doing that.

      Yeah, The Flash in particular. Unfortunately, when it branched out from speedster villains in Seasons 4 and 5, it happened to have poor-to-terrible villains, but I hope the showrunners didn't get the wrong idea. If we'd had yet more speedsters, it would have been unbelievably dull.


      Code Yellow (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: True, it's a toss up between Deke's idea to upend the food industry when there should be plenty of food available vs. the notion of the Framework-based game being a hit because it implicitly helps people avoids reality.

      Yeah I guess that's a way of looking at the Framework's success.

      There is also the problem, in the same way as with Daisy, Piper, and Davis not bringing this up with Simmons about Fitz, of a character having not seen another character since before the Snap and not asking about them. Deke hasn't really kept in contact with the team to the point where he doesn't appear to know that Coulson died - he thinks they must have saved his life before he died.

      But he implies there was a tiny bit of contact, so maybe after the Snap he got in touch to check they were OK - before Coulson died.

      Oh I also meant to mention with the Coachella thing that we've never discussed Shuri's line at the end of Black Panther about Coachella. I never brought it up because again, I don't think it matters.

      "When you said you would take me to California for the first time... I thought you meant Coachella... or Disneyland."

      I imagine the conversation as literally:
      T'Challa: "I'm going to take you to California for the first time."
      Shuri thinks "Ooh for Coachella next year? Or Disneyland?"
      Shuri: "When?"
      T'Challa: "Tomorrow."

      Or something similar. She didn't know when they were going when he "said [he] would take [her] to California for the first time", only to then realise they were going soon so it wouldn't be Coachella.

      Also a) it's just a joke, b) if necessary Coachella can be a July thing in the MCU, c) if necessary that scene could be 9 months after the main film rather than a few weeks, but that's not necessary.


      Personal Note (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Congrats on finishing out the (first?) year.

      Agreed. I, too, have nothing against the occasional break from new content.

      First year, yeah. Thank you!


      Alternate Reality Synopsis (Marvelus, Ben 1,000,911, DaenerysTheMadKhal58)

      Marvelus wrote: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. epiosdesode 6 synopsis confirms they travelled to an alternate reality in Season 5.

      Just to let people know what Marvelus is talking about:

      "They've fought through space, time and alternate realities to find each other, and now, closer than ever, only their own demons can stop FitzSimmons' reunion."

      It would seem to me that 2091 is covered by "time" ("space" being Maveth), so "alternate realities" is the Framework.

      Regardless, if it were referring to 2091, it wouldn't be wrong. It's the original timeline so technically the new timeline the whole MCU is following post-The End is an alternate timeline, but just for designation purposes, this is still the "main" reality so in a sense, the original timeline is an alternate timeline now.

      But it wasn't to begin with, and Fitz sleeping through from 2017 to 2091 proves this. The White Monolith just shifts you in time, it doesn't change reality or cause a branch.

      Ben 1,000,911 wrote: I think that could refer to the Framework? At the very least I'm not sure it "confirms" that this is an alternate reality. I've been lurking here for a bit and if I had to put in my two cents, I'd say wait it out, maybe they'll be able to explain the timeline better. If not, y'all also have said that there isn't technically enough evidence to prove that the Snap HASN'T happened yet, so we can assume that it did and the show is just doing a poor job of showing it.

      DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: Yeah, that seems like a reference to the Framework to me. It'd be weird to confirm that they're in an alternate reality in an episode synopsis, so unless they actually say this in the episode, we shouldn't assume anything.

      I agree with both of you that it's the Framework.

      And I don't think Marvelus was saying that this proves it's a different timeline to the Snap, don't worry.

      Marvelus wrote: Well. I may have jumped the gun xD, but I am not referring to the Agentd returning to an alternate timeline other than Earth 199999, I mean they were sent to an alternste reality (timeline future) and then brought back to the main continuity. Hwoever, who am I to judge?

      There we go.

      But yeah no they can't have been sent to an alternate reality and brought back to main continuity as explained above. It would also mean that every other time the White Monolith didn't bring them back to main continuity for some reason, but this time it did, and wouldn't explain why Robin only senses the timeline shift at the point just after it diverges.


      Captain Marvel's Age (additional)

      I forgot to mention this a few weeks ago, but in this Markus and McFeely interview that was looked at for branch timeline-related stuff (don't worry about that now), they say, "She's been in space nearly half her life." She's been in space mid-1989 to mid-2023, 34 years, but that would mean she's at least 34 when she's taken which she's definitely not. In context, they're talking about her obligations, so perhaps just the mid-1995 to mid-2023 period, 28 years, making her at least 28 in Captain Marvel so born no later than 1967. That works with my estimation that she was born in 1966.

      (Also they say the beginning of Endgame is "20 years" after Captain Marvel. Not really relevant of course but I always just try to post any comments for archiving purposes.)

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    • Carol being born around 1966-1968 always made the most sense to me. Plus it would make her around the same age as Rhodes. From their small interaction in Endgame, I'd like to believe they previously knew each other (not saying to the same extent of their relationship in the comics). 

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    • When did was tease that they knew each other before? Xd

      Great work with the 2018 references BEJT.

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    • It could just be me looking into things, but plenty of others have also noticed the two give each other a look after they have their debriefing with Natasha. 

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    • But that was five years after the first 20 or so minutes of Endgame, and there he asked "where have you been all this time?"

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    • Runaways just cast Morgana/Morgan Le Fay for Season 3. I think we're going to get some ancient flashbacks. Hopefully.

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    • Wonder how that will work into the MCU. Watch them say she was part of the Anciet Order of Mysitcs. 

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    • If there are gonna be flashbacks, I wonder who they will get to play the likes of King Arthur and Merlin?

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    • Marvelus wrote: When did was tease that they knew each other before?

      Lot of speculation arose from the look they gave each other after the 5 year time skip meeting before she signed off.

      LoreMaster22 wrote: Wonder how that will work into the MCU. Watch them say she was part of the Ancient Order of Mystics. 

      Probably tied to the Staff of One. Tina Minoru briefly hinted there was more to the staff in season 2.
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    • Ohhhh, you mean that look after she disconnected herself from the call? xD I just assumed it was about the Barton's intel. They both knew and Danvers encouraged him to say it.

      Damn. You are right Mrmichaelt. I was hoping for them to tie in with Doctor Strange.

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    • Marvelus wrote:

      Ohhhh, you mean that look after she disconnected herself from the call? xD I just assumed it was about the Barton's intel. They both knew and Danvers encouraged him to say it.
      Yeah, I'm sure whoever picked up on that were people who knew Rhodey and Carol were an item in the comics. To me, it looked just a 'you'll address the white elephant in the room?' nod.

      Marvelus wrote: Damn. You are right Mrmichaelt. I was hoping for them to tie in with Doctor Strange.

      Never know, maybe Morgan and an Ancient One could have fought. The one we met in Doctor Strange was 500 years old, then who she succeeded, Agamotto... I think there's a possibility of a Strange tie-in.
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    • Marvelus wrote:

      Damn. You are right Mrmichaelt. I was hoping for them to tie in with Doctor Strange.

      I mean, they're definitely doing a Dr. Strange tie-in. Nico has the Dormammu eyes, and it seems like they're going to confirm both versions of Tina are in fact the same woman.

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    • Hey idk if this is the thread for this, but multiple things seem to be going on here and it's the only thread I know of so here goes: in a Victoria Alonso AMA on Reddit, she confirmed that Patrick Brennan's roles in AoS as Blackout and Captain Marvel as a bartender were one and the same. Just wanted y'all to know so you could, like, add that

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    • Wow!!! That is so cool. Really cool 😍😍😍 could you send a link? Pleaseee

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    • ^here: https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/bx6hvi/im_victoria_alonso_evp_of_production_at_marvel/eq403sd/

      Makes sense. On his file, it said his education included a science degree in physics from a university between 1990 and 1996. Probably Bartending to help pay for tuition and other bills.

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    • I just saw it!! I am so hyped right now.

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    • Marvelus, you said that AoS S4 references Doctor Strange's events from Hong Kong. I remember hearing that, but when is that exactly? Sorry I'm a few days late. I forgot that we started a new thread. This was probably decided a long time ago, but if AoS references Doctor Strange, does that mean the Hong Kong even and Strange reversing time was more or less temporal? Like a few city blocks and not like he was turning back time on the entire planet, solar system, galaxy, universe? Because a few city blocks seems way more realistic anyways. That way somebody could have seen something strange from a distance, hence the AoS reference.

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    • The Hong Kong incident was mentioned in "Lockup" by Senator Nadeer kind of in the middle of the episode. She said, "And yet every day, there are reports of disturbances in Hong Kong or blue-skinned killers in Wyoming."

      Ghost Rider also generated a portal like in Dr. Strange in the season finale. Yeah, seemed like the way Strange used the Time Stone created a limited localized effect in that part of Hong Kong.

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    • Ben 1,000,911 wrote: Hey idk if this is the thread for this, but multiple things seem to be going on here and it's the only thread I know of so here goes: in a Victoria Alonso AMA on Reddit, she confirmed that Patrick Brennan's roles in AoS as Blackout and Captain Marvel as a bartender were one and the same. Just wanted y'all to know so you could, like, add that

      So that means two characters have crossed over from TV-Movie. Neat.

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    • Carol and Rhodey (Rman823, Marvelus, Ben 1,000,911, Mrmichaelt)

      Rman823 wrote: Carol being born around 1966-1968 always made the most sense to me. Plus it would make her around the same age as Rhodes. From their small interaction in Endgame, I'd like to believe they previously knew each other (not saying to the same extent of their relationship in the comics). 

      Yeah, well by my calculations, 1966. I'll update those calculations soon now that we know when Endgame takes place.

      I don't think it works for them to know each other unfortunately considering his reaction to her at the beginning of the film. I think they've just built a bond in the last 5 years.

      Not entirely comfortable with the idea of a relationship that some people have suggested. A) I don't think that's implied, but B) while she's the same age as him, it doesn't quite feel right considering her biological age. I don't know, it's tricky. But Thor's 1000 yet we're OK with a relationship with Jane because of his age in human years. It's kind of a question of maturity in terms of years lived vs. maturity in terms of body, and whether it is OK to be physically attracted to someone who is physically much younger so long as their mind is older.

      Marvelus wrote: When did was tease that they knew each other before? Xd

      They didn't, it's just a theory.

      Rman823 wrote: It could just be me looking into things, but plenty of others have also noticed the two give each other a look after they have their debriefing with Natasha. 

      Yeah, I just think they have built a mutual respect though.

      Ben 1,000,911 wrote: But that was five years after the first 20 or so minutes of Endgame, and there he asked "where have you been all this time?"

      Indeed.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Lot of speculation arose from the look they gave each other after the 5 year time skip meeting before she signed off.

      Marvelus wrote: Ohhhh, you mean that look after she disconnected herself from the call? xD I just assumed it was about the Barton's intel. They both knew and Danvers encouraged him to say it.

      Well it is about Barton's intel, she's wishing him luck delivering the news. It's just I think the look carries a respect they've built over the years. Some people think it's romantic.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Yeah, I'm sure whoever picked up on that were people who knew Rhodey and Carol were an item in the comics. To me, it looked just a 'you'll address the white elephant in the room?' nod.

      Yeah, I don't think they're going in that comics direction.

      Marvelus wrote: Great work with the 2018 references BEJT.

      Thanks. I was trying to update/improve it while also cutting it down a bit.


      Morgan Le Fay (Edward Zachary Sunrose, LoreMaster22, Greater good, Mrmichaelt, Marvelus)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Runaways just cast Morgana/Morgan Le Fay for Season 3. I think we're going to get some ancient flashbacks. Hopefully.

      I saw, interesting. Didn't know that stuff was in the comics (assuming it is?). Though I guess all mythology and legend has at some point been in Marvel Comics, adapted into the lore. I've also heard stuff about Captain Britain and/or Black Knight possibly being involved with Excalibur in the comics? I just didn't know they went as far as Morgan Le Fay and Merlin.

      LoreMaster22 wrote: Wonder how that will work into the MCU. Watch them say she was part of the Anciet Order of Mysitcs. 

      I would be OK with her being a Master of the Mystic Arts. Would be kind of fun.

      Greater good wrote: If there are gonna be flashbacks, I wonder who they will get to play the likes of King Arthur and Merlin?

      Mmm, could be interesting, especially if Marvel Studios want to deal with that stuff at some point with Captain Britain and/or Black Knight.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Probably tied to the Staff of One. Tina Minoru briefly hinted there was more to the staff in season 2.

      Yeah, there's a good chance of that.

      Marvelus wrote: Damn. You are right Mrmichaelt. I was hoping for them to tie in with Doctor Strange.

      Not mutually exclusive, they could well do so, especially with the Dark Dimension stuff in Season 2. Just maybe not specifically the Tina problem.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Never know, maybe Morgan and an Ancient One could have fought. The one we met in Doctor Strange was 500 years old, then who she succeeded, Agamotto... I think there's a possibility of a Strange tie-in.

      She was said to be 700, so yeah, she's about 800 years too young. I'm also not sure she directly succeeded Agomotto. But would be good for more Doctor Strange tie-in.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I mean, they're definitely doing a Dr. Strange tie-in. Nico has the Dormammu eyes, and it seems like they're going to confirm both versions of Tina are in fact the same woman.

      Not sure about the Tina thing, but I guess we'll see.


      Blackout in Captain Marvel (Ben 1,000,911, Marvelus, ProBot1227)

      Ben 1,000,911 wrote: Hey idk if this is the thread for this, but multiple things seem to be going on here and it's the only thread I know of so here goes: in a Victoria Alonso AMA on Reddit, she confirmed that Patrick Brennan's roles in AoS as Blackout and Captain Marvel as a bartender were one and the same. Just wanted y'all to know so you could, like, add that

      Well it wasn't super clear but I guess it's sort of confirmation.

      Doesn't particularly work considering he looks 5 years older, 19 years prior. And this is very much a retroactive thing. But I guess it's nice to be acknowledging the shows more?

      Marvelus wrote: Wow!!! That is so cool. Really cool 😍😍😍 could you send a link? Pleaseee

      Mrmichaelt wrote: ^here: https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/bx6hvi/im_victoria_alonso_evp_of_production_at_marvel/eq403sd/

      Makes sense. On his file, it said his education included a science degree in physics from a university between 1990 and 1996. Probably Bartending to help pay for tuition and other bills.

      Hmm maybe. He's pretty old for that, looking like he's in his 40s in 1995.

      I've said before that I am not familiar enough with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, but Blackout's page says he was born October 11, 1972. Assuming that's from the show. So I guess the idea of his ageing slowing due to powers doesn't necessarily work - he would have to be 22 when the actor was 43. Eh.

      Also a bit coincidental that when Fury and Carol leave Coulson, they then come across the guy who would end up stalking Coulson's future girlfriend.

      Marvelus wrote: I just saw it!! I am so hyped right now.

      ProBot1227 wrote: So that means two characters have crossed over from TV-Movie. Neat.

      Eh. Jarvis is still the first since this is absolutely retroactive. There's also some other murky ones like Jimmy Woo being referenced first in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., but the crossover frankly being an accident, and also it not literally being an actor playing a character crossing over. I would say that Jarvis is the only true intentional and undeniable TV-to-film character crossover.


      Doctor Strange in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (CirUmeUela, Mrmichaelt)

      CirUmeUela wrote: Marvelus, you said that AoS S4 references Doctor Strange's events from Hong Kong. I remember hearing that, but when is that exactly? Sorry I'm a few days late. I forgot that we started a new thread. This was probably decided a long time ago, but if AoS references Doctor Strange, does that mean the Hong Kong even and Strange reversing time was more or less temporal? Like a few city blocks and not like he was turning back time on the entire planet, solar system, galaxy, universe? Because a few city blocks seems way more realistic anyways. That way somebody could have seen something strange from a distance, hence the AoS reference.

      Yeah this has been discussed a lot. Whenever the Time Stone reverses things, it's within a certain radius, not actually reversing time.

      Weirdly, just hours ago I was trawling through comments from the Russos and Markus/McFeely about the timeline, and they addressed this exact thing - about 2 minutes into this.

      CirUmeUela, did you see the remaining Ant-Man and the Wasp dates that I think you were interested in getting? The ones for Ghost's S.H.I.E.L.D. missions and Luis' grandmother's jukebox.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: The Hong Kong incident was mentioned in "Lockup" by Senator Nadeer kind of in the middle of the episode. She said, "And yet every day, there are reports of disturbances in Hong Kong or blue-skinned killers in Wyoming."

      Ghost Rider also generated a portal like in Dr. Strange in the season finale. Yeah, seemed like the way Strange used the Time Stone created a limited localized effect in that part of Hong Kong.

      That was always my impression, that it was like the apple but on a larger scale. What Thanos then did to Vision reaffirmed that for me, and the Markus and McFeely comment I just linked cements it. It's the same bit of magic as the apple and Vision, on a larger scale.


      Ant-Man and the Wasp: The Heroes' Journey (additional)

      I've finished Ant-Man and the Wasp: The Heroes' Journey (it's a short book, it just took me a while due to busyness). There's a couple of details that are slightly iffy in terms of canon, but not enough to declare it non-canon I feel. I'll write up notes from it soon, and will start the two Cosmic Quest books now.

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    • Ben 1,000,911 wrote: Hey idk if this is the thread for this, but multiple things seem to be going on here and it's the only thread I know of so here goes: in a Victoria Alonso AMA on Reddit, she confirmed that Patrick Brennan's roles in AoS as Blackout and Captain Marvel as a bartender were one and the same. Just wanted y'all to know so you could, like, add that

      I just did and it was immediately reverted, despite having a direct confirmation from Victoria Alonso herself.

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    • Yeah but Shabook says we need a definite confirmation rather than "You noticed?"

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    • Marvelus wrote:
      Yeah but Shabook says we need a definite confirmation rather than "You noticed?"

      That seems a little silly to me, but rules are rules.

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    • Sadly. It would be nice to have it as such,

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    • Noticed on rewatch: Tyrone's letter to Father Delgado has him talking about reflecting on Delgado's lessons for the last "nine months", so it's probably late November/early December by that point (it's after Lia's community service is shown, so that would constrain her community service to being no more than about 4 weeks after, unless he's had the letter for a while).

      I also feel like this is the show's way of saying it's 1 month later. With Tandy packing during the montage, I reckon the montage is all the same day, the day they leave. So this lines up pretty nicely as early December, 1 month after the main events of the season. Maybe Delgado's had the letter a week or so.


      Also, just a small thing I realised: Tony and Howard are almost exactly the same age in Endgame. Howard is 52, Tony is 52-53.

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    • BEJT wrote: Noticed on rewatch: Tyrone's letter to Father Delgado has him talking about reflecting on Delgado's lessons for the last "nine months", so it's probably late November/early December by that point (it's after Lia's community service is shown, so that would constrain her community service to being no more than about 4 weeks after, unless he's had the letter for a while).

      I also feel like this is the show's way of saying it's 1 month later. With Tandy packing during the montage, I reckon the montage is all the same day, the day they leave. So this lines up pretty nicely as early December, 1 month after the main events of the season. Maybe Delgado's had the letter a week or so.

      Great find! And it helps the timeline. :)

      Last year, Freeform announced the renewal on July 20 (2nd day of SDCC) so should hear about season 3 more or less around that time. This year it's July 18-21.

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    • BETJ, yeah I noticed those dates, thanks. Now for the movies, we just need Captain Marvel and Endgame placed on the timeline. Or is Endgame done already? I saw some of it on there. Maybe not all the past date stuff is finished yet?

      I listened to Empire Podcast today where they interview Markus & McFeely first and then the Russo Bros. Chris the interviewer didn't ask Markus & McFeely about Steve's time traveling at the end, but they did say something like "We think that branched timeline with Loki dissapearing might have been erased" but didn't actually confirm it. They said that for a few things, it would be up to Marvel to decide what happens, kind of saying that it's not up to them in the end what happens in the future with plot threads they started.

      Chris did ask the Russos about Steve going back. They said that there is a definite answer as to how he got back to the main timeline, but that they were going to leave that up to a future story. However, they did reaffirm twice that it was an alternate timeline. The way they said it wasn't stated as opinion, but fact. It's interesting though that they think there could be a future story about Steve in the alternate timeline, I wonder if that could happen, maybe a short series for Disney + after Chris Evans has had a break for a few years.

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    • CirUmeUela wrote:

      Chris did ask the Russos about Steve going back. They said that there is a definite answer as to how he got back to the main timeline, but that they were going to leave that up to a future story. However, they did reaffirm twice that it was an alternate timeline. The way they said it wasn't stated as opinion, but fact. It's interesting though that they think there could be a future story about Steve in the alternate timeline, I wonder if that could happen, maybe a short series for Disney + after Chris Evans has had a break for a few years.

      I am thinking that maybe an episode of upcoming What If TV Show can show that alternative timeline Steve went.

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    • CirUmeUela wrote:

      Chris the interviewer didn't ask Markus & McFeely about Steve's time traveling at the end, but they did say something like "We think that branched timeline with Loki dissapearing might have been erased" but didn't actually confirm it.

      That suggests to me that the Loki series on Disney+ will not be about Alternate 2012 Loki as so many have suggested.

      Thank God.

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    • If that was the case, I wouldn't watch it. I think a Loki TV series set in the past of the present MCU would be cool and it can show how Loki assured his death not to be permanent. Eventually leading to his reencarnation as Kid Loki leading to a potential Dark Reign storyline.

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    • Blackout in Captain Marvel (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Marvelus)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I just did and it was immediately reverted, despite having a direct confirmation from Victoria Alonso herself.

      Marvelus wrote: Sadly. It would be nice to have it as such,

      I sometimes find the line for confirmation a bit unclear on this wiki. Certain things that I wouldn't see as hard confirmation are treated as such despite the strict rules on confirmation, but sometimes the strict rules do apply, like here.

      But in this case, yeah, she wasn't clear and also it doesn't really make sense. I'm perfectly fine without it.


      Cloak & Dagger and Runaways (me, Mrmichaelt)

      BEJT wrote: Noticed on rewatch: Tyrone's letter to Father Delgado has him talking about reflecting on Delgado's lessons for the last "nine months", so it's probably late November/early December by that point (it's after Lia's community service is shown, so that would constrain her community service to being no more than about 4 weeks after, unless he's had the letter for a while).

      I also feel like this is the show's way of saying it's 1 month later. With Tandy packing during the montage, I reckon the montage is all the same day, the day they leave. So this lines up pretty nicely as early December, 1 month after the main events of the season. Maybe Delgado's had the letter a week or so.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Great find! And it helps the timeline. :)

      Last year, Freeform announced the renewal on July 20 (2nd day of SDCC) so should hear about season 3 more or less around that time. This year it's July 18-21.

      I was thinking along the lines of it being 9 months since the lessons, but the specific writing is, "Over the past nine months I have had a lot of time to think on the lessons you taught me." So while Tyrone went on the run in late February, considering he was caught up in things and only settled in the church and his new fugitive life on March 1, 2017, it can actually be considered that this would make it December, 9 months since he settled following Delgado's lessons. Considering Destiny's body was found on December 9th, and it should be at least about 3 days later for O'Reilly/Mayhem's reports, making the decision to leave, packing etc., but should be close to early December considering the letter so not really more than 3 days, I'm going with December 12th for now.

      Yeah, I was saying to another user recently that there's a good chance it gets renewed at SDCC.


      Past Dates (CirUmeUela)

      CirUmeUela wrote: BETJ, yeah I noticed those dates, thanks. Now for the movies, we just need Captain Marvel and Endgame placed on the timeline. Or is Endgame done already? I saw some of it on there. Maybe not all the past date stuff is finished yet?

      Captain Marvel and Endgame main events are up (the dates are correct though the writing is messily done by various users and needs checking), the past dates have not been done yet (beyond just setting up the skeleton for the Time Heists on the timeline because I knew some users would be eager to write things up and wanted the structure to be in place for them when they did to minimise the mess - those writings also need checking, but again, the dates are correct). I'll get there, they're on my to-do list. I'm also going to do some specific side-by-side timecode comparisons for the Time Heists when I can, revisiting the three films and lining up how Endgame happens in parallel as best as I can with bits and pieces from online without pirating the film - to be perfected once it's out in home release.


      Alternate Timelines (CirUmeUela, Protego Maxima, Edward Zachary Sunrose, Marvelus)

      CirUmeUela wrote: I listened to Empire Podcast today where they interview Markus & McFeely first and then the Russo Bros. Chris the interviewer didn't ask Markus & McFeely about Steve's time traveling at the end, but they did say something like "We think that branched timeline with Loki dissapearing might have been erased" but didn't actually confirm it. They said that for a few things, it would be up to Marvel to decide what happens, kind of saying that it's not up to them in the end what happens in the future with plot threads they started.

      Chris did ask the Russos about Steve going back. They said that there is a definite answer as to how he got back to the main timeline, but that they were going to leave that up to a future story. However, they did reaffirm twice that it was an alternate timeline. The way they said it wasn't stated as opinion, but fact. It's interesting though that they think there could be a future story about Steve in the alternate timeline, I wonder if that could happen, maybe a short series for Disney + after Chris Evans has had a break for a few years.

      I'm behind on the podcast so I hadn't listened yet - thank you for letting us know.

      It's funny seeing you talk about Chris like that - I've all-but met Chris. I went to one of the live podcasts and met some of the critics/hosts, didn't meet Chris but was in the same room as him.

      Worth bearing in mind that Chris talked several weeks ago on the podcast about having done those interviews like the day after the world premiere, before the film was even out - so these things were said (just not released) before all the rest of both parties' comments came out about this stuff.

      The Russos are very confident in the way they talk about this stuff, while Markus and McFeely are very cautious, but confidence doesn't necessarily amount to being more correct.

      I'm really happy to hear they mentioned the erasing of the timelines, which is something I've not heard either party talk about despite being mentioned in the film. It seems to me if you read and watch their interviews that Markus and McFeely have really been careful with how they wrote the film and know what they wrote, but are also cautious because they're not Marvel overlords and know there's a chance Marvel exploit certain grey areas with the rules so don't want to state anything definitively. The Russos are speaking the way I see many people incorrectly speak online, claiming that the film sets up the rule that "If you go back in time, you create a new timeline", which is never stated. It's more complicated than that. But they might also be more clued in to the larger Marvel plan.

      I've been doing another extensive analysis of the comments from the film and both parties recently, finding as many quotes as I can and dissecting them. Frankly, I think Markus and McFeely are right, but if something gets followed up on in the future it might unfortunately be the Russo explanation.

      Protego Maxima wrote: I am thinking that maybe an episode of upcoming What If TV Show can show that alternative timeline Steve went.

      Yeah so I've seen that line of thought - it's a bit of an odd one. Because the idea of Marvel's What If...? as a TV show it would seem is less literal alternate/branch timelines but more "I wonder, what if this had gone this way? How could that have looked?"

      If it's literal timelines, a) I am much less happy about the show because it's an unnecessarily complicated tie-in to the MCU set in literal alternate realities that I really don't want to have to deal with, and b) it's not really "What if?" if it actually happened, just in a branch timeline. I know in the comics there's something involving the Watcher switching between universes or something but I'm really hoping they don't go that route. But yeah, if you follow Steve's trips, that's not really "What if?" because we know it happened. If something could conceivably fit in to a main actual film - the way that could conceivably have been a part of Endgame (wouldn't have worked in terms of pace and story and length and structure, I'm just saying in terms of the main storyline) then it doesn't really fit. It's not a question of "What if... Peggy Carter became Captain America?/Loki got Mjolnir?", it's just an MCU story.

      The other thing being that it would appear most actors are returning to voice their characters in Marvel's What If...?, but Evans is done with the character.

      The only thing I can currently think of that you could do to tell that story without needing Evans would be a tie-in comic or novel, but neither of those seem like a worthy medium to tell such a significant story.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: That suggests to me that the Loki series on Disney+ will not be about Alternate 2012 Loki as so many have suggested.

      Thank God.

      I really hope it is. Not just because I feel it doesn't really jive with what the film says, but I have no attachment to that timeline and I don't want any MCU content set wholly in alternate universes. And I'd just kind of love for all the people just assuming this stuff to get egg on their face, because people assuming things with certainty just generally annoys me😂. Plus I've found it annoying how people go, "Well, we heard it's Loki popping through history, and he's got the Tesseract, so there we go..."

      Yes, he's got the... Space Stone.

      Marvelus wrote: If that was the case, I wouldn't watch it. I think a Loki TV series set in the past of the present MCU would be cool and it can show how Loki assured his death not to be permanent. Eventually leading to his reencarnation as Kid Loki leading to a potential Dark Reign storyline.

      I wish I knew what you were talking about with comics stuff. But yes, much more interested in a prequel than an alternate timeline.

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    • BEJT wrote:

      I was thinking along the lines of it being 9 months since the lessons, but the specific writing is, "Over the past nine months I have had a lot of time to think on the lessons you taught me." So while Tyrone went on the run in late February, considering he was caught up in things and only settled in the church and his new fugitive life on March 1, 2017, it can actually be considered that this would make it December, 9 months since he settled following Delgado's lessons. Considering Destiny's body was found on December 9th, and it should be at least about 3 days later for O'Reilly/Mayhem's reports, making the decision to leave, packing etc., but should be close to early December considering the letter so not really more than 3 days, I'm going with December 12th for now.
      Yeah, feels like they set it up so that Brigid mistakenly added Destiny's murder to the other string of murders because of a coincidentally similar M.O. of the beach and aspects of the victim.

      BEJT wrote: I really hope it is. Not just because I feel it doesn't really jive with what the film says, but I have no attachment to that timeline and I don't want any MCU content set wholly in alternate universes. And I'd just kind of love for all the people just assuming this stuff to get egg on their face, because people assuming things with certainty just generally annoys me😂. Plus I've found it annoying how people go, "Well, we heard it's Loki popping through history, and he's got the Tesseract, so there we go..."

      Yes, he's got the... Space Stone.
      And they seem to have forgotten how old the Asgardians are and they've already hinted here and then about trips to Earth. The fervor of Endgame is definitely coloring peoples' theories about the Loki series. In a way it's like in TWS when Zola revealed what world events HYDRA was behind, here it's what world events Loki was behind but to a more comical effect probably since he was probably doing things out of boredom not to take over the world.
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    • It would appear that part of it is said in 1975, which is promising. While that doesn't confirm it's a prequel and not some sort of time travel, still, I'm hopeful. I mean there's no particular precedent for how Loki would be capable of time travel, just some people seem adamant to assume that's what's going on.

      Also, even if it were the alternate 2012 Loki, if he went back in time to 1975 he would be in the main timeline, because both the main timeline and that 2012 offshoot stem from, and feed back into if you're going backwards in time, the one stem timeline.

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    • BEJT wrote: It would appear that part of it is said in 1975, which is promising. While that doesn't confirm it's a prequel and not some sort of time travel, still, I'm hopeful. I mean there's no particular precedent for how Loki would be capable of time travel, just some people seem adamant to assume that's what's going on.

      Also, even if it were the alternate 2012 Loki, if he went back in time to 1975 he would be in the main timeline, because both the main timeline and that 2012 offshoot stem from, and feed back into if you're going backwards in time, the one stem timeline.

      Right, because of "Jaws" on a theater marquee in the b.g. of that Loki art.

      Just the way you typed that 2nd paragraph... I hope they stay away from the AU timeline Loki from Endgame. :P

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    • This review says Jessica Jones: Season 3 takes place a year after Season 2, presumably not just their assumption but stated in the show in some way.

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    • Dammit Netflix.

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    • So June 2018? Coming off of Cloak and Dagger, count me skeptical...

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    • BEJT wrote:
      This review says Jessica Jones: Season 3 takes place a year after Season 2, presumably not just their assumption but stated in the show in some way.

      Not really surprising, I pretty much figured that they would place it there.

      Best case scenario is that starts and runs semi-concurrently with Punisher: Season 2 (like early May) and concludes around May 24th or, at the latest, May 31st. Otherwise, we might have to push the Snap into June.

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    • Loki (Mrmichaelt, me)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: And they seem to have forgotten how old the Asgardians are and they've already hinted here and then about trips to Earth. The fervor of Endgame is definitely coloring peoples' theories about the Loki series. In a way it's like in TWS when Zola revealed what world events HYDRA was behind, here it's what world events Loki was behind but to a more comical effect probably since he was probably doing things out of boredom not to take over the world.

      Exactly. Loki has been shown to know secret ways off Asgard to other realms.

      BEJT wrote: It would appear that part of it is said in 1975, which is promising. While that doesn't confirm it's a prequel and not some sort of time travel, still, I'm hopeful. I mean there's no particular precedent for how Loki would be capable of time travel, just some people seem adamant to assume that's what's going on.

      Also, even if it were the alternate 2012 Loki, if he went back in time to 1975 he would be in the main timeline, because both the main timeline and that 2012 offshoot stem from, and feed back into if you're going backwards in time, the one stem timeline.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Right, because of "Jaws" on a theater marquee in the b.g. of that Loki art.

      Just the way you typed that 2nd paragraph... I hope they stay away from the AU timeline Loki from Endgame. :P

      Yeah sorry😂 it was a rushed message so I ended up not mentioning Jaws and wording that second paragraph poorly.


      Jessica Jones: Season 3 (me, Marvelus, Mrmichaelt, The Wikia Editor)

      BEJT wrote: This review says Jessica Jones: Season 3 takes place a year after Season 2, presumably not just their assumption but stated in the show in some way.

      Marvelus wrote: Dammit Netflix.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: So June 2018? Coming off of Cloak and Dagger, count me skeptical...

      I imagine it's a loose year, or they just say "last year". Considering it appears the season includes Hallowe'en though, the point is that it does appear it'll be Autumn/Fall 2018 which will be... a problem.

      The Wikia Editor wrote: Not really surprising, I pretty much figured that they would place it there.

      Best case scenario is that starts and runs semi-concurrently with Punisher: Season 2 (like early May) and concludes around May 24th or, at the latest, May 31st. Otherwise, we might have to push the Snap into June.

      I don't think it's surprising either. But the problem is that set photos suggested it will include Hallowe'en, so it's looking like, as expected, that will be Hallowe'en 2018. A problem.

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    • I am really regretting the Netflix shows catching up 😂

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    • BEJT wrote:
      I don't think it's surprising either. But the problem is that set photos suggested it will include Hallowe'en, so it's looking like, as expected, that will be Hallowe'en 2018. A problem.

      I didn't know about the Hallowe'en possibility. In that case, it's definitely post-Snap. I suppose things could have calmed down enough by October-November for people to go about their business, although it's admittedly a stretch.

      I'm curious how the MCU shows in general are going to deal with the 5-year Snap period. Are they all going to do a 5-year timeskip or are they actually going to aknowledge it and work it into the story, which sounds like a pretty good idea.

      Runaways: Season 3 looks like it'll take place around January-February 2018, so at least there are no problems there.

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    • I just really, really struggle to use the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. excuse when it's just been about 4 or 5 months. We'll see how things play out soon enough.

      I'm curious as well, but if you think about it, they have quite a while to deal with that after these two initial problems. With the Netflix shows cancelled and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. already encountering the problem, the only ongoing shows (the Ghost Rider, Helstrom etc. shows have a chance to start however they see fit) left to encounter the problem are Runaways and Cloak & Dagger. Runaways: Season 3 seems like it should still fit in post-Snap, and anything after that for either show I don't believe has been written yet.

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    • The problem here is who they will put it into the mix. The only way to use the Snap in the shows is disappearing your cast. I already proposed my 💡 for Runaways. But the main key is how can you add a storyline that does not involve your characters at all. It would be weird. It has to be organic.

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    • This is one of the biggest problems with shared universes. There's less artistic freedom when you have to make your work fit together with everyone else's.

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    • Marvelus wrote: One more to go.

      Until the timeline goes to sh*t 😂😂

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    • I guessed that JJ S3 would be post-snap, which I don't really have a problem with. I just have to assume that all discussion to the snap and things related to it happen off-screen. The bad thing to me is that there's probably going to be some interview where someone involved on the show (coughjephloebcough) will say it's before Infinity War.

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    • BEJT wrote: I don't think it's surprising either. But the problem is that set photos suggested it will include Hallowe'en, so it's looking like, as expected, that will be Hallowe'en 2018. A problem.

      Do you remember the link for that photo? I'm second guessing if we saw in that photo a camera crew filming her or if was just Ritter buying something for Halloween and we misinterpreted it.
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    • I posted, several months ago.

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    • Pretty sure the picture was from around mid-September because I remember thinking "OK that must be from the show since it's like 6 weeks until Hallowe'en".

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    • Found it. Yeah, don't know. It might have been just her shopping between scenes? It's easy to guess this is Trish making her Hellcat costume but might have jumped the gun.

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    • Jessica Jones: Season 3 (Marvelus, The Wikia Editor, me, Greater good, DaenerysTheMadKhal58, Mrmichaelt)

      Marvelus wrote: I am really regretting the Netflix shows catching up 😂

      The Wikia Editor wrote: I didn't know about the Hallowe'en possibility. In that case, it's definitely post-Snap. I suppose things could have calmed down enough by October-November for people to go about their business, although it's admittedly a stretch.

      I'm curious how the MCU shows in general are going to deal with the 5-year Snap period. Are they all going to do a 5-year timeskip or are they actually going to aknowledge it and work it into the story, which sounds like a pretty good idea.

      Runaways: Season 3 looks like it'll take place around January-February 2018, so at least there are no problems there.

      BEJT wrote: I just really, really struggle to use the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. excuse when it's just been about 4 or 5 months. We'll see how things play out soon enough.

      I'm curious as well, but if you think about it, they have quite a while to deal with that after these two initial problems. With the Netflix shows cancelled and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. already encountering the problem, the only ongoing shows (the Ghost Rider, Helstrom etc. shows have a chance to start however they see fit) left to encounter the problem are Runaways and Cloak & Dagger. Runaways: Season 3 seems like it should still fit in post-Snap, and anything after that for either show I don't believe has been written yet.

      Marvelus wrote: The problem here is who they will put it into the mix. The only way to use the Snap in the shows is disappearing your cast. I already proposed my 💡 for Runaways. But the main key is how can you add a storyline that does not involve your characters at all. It would be weird. It has to be organic.

      It was part of the reason I was on the side of "The Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 5 finale will not show the Snap", that it doesn't make narrative sense internally for these shows as their own entities to have half the characters disappear since it is not the characters' problem to resolve. You lose half your cast for a while, only for things to then just be put back to normal without any of their input.

      But you don't necessarily have to do the Snap to deal with the problem. You can just skip over the 5 years.

      The problem is that the shows like to be set in present day and it seems to me like the people behind them wouldn't want to make the shift to 2023 even just because of that. It might seem like a small thing, but I genuinely think that's uncomfortable for them.

      But more important is the skipping 5 years of story. It's very inconvenient for these shows to have to do that, and also to deal with the ageing problem since the main two shows we're talking about here involve teenagers who would look significantly different 5 years on. While I think a show like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., if it had been able to prepare, could have got a lot of mileage out of the 5-year jump and twisting that to their own creative means (like how they have done in the past with other MCU things, most obviously the Hydra twist), Cloak & Dagger and Runaways aren't so linked with the films, nor do they seem to feel as beholden to them.

      I imagine the shows are going to get as much mileage as they feel they can out of the "It's before the Snap" excuse. It almost makes me hope that these shows get cancelled in like a year's time before they can catch up with the Snap and/or fall so far behind real time that you end up with more and more inevitable timeline problems. It's sad for that to be hoped for though just because of this problem. Hopefully they just manage to handle it and I don't have to kind-of-wish for cancellation.

      And hopefully Ghost Rider is prepared by the time it starts - could take place a while before the Snap, could take place in present day and acknowledge things, or could start in 2023. But let's pray that they care enough to actually think about that and don't just go, "Well it's not particularly tied in to the films so it doesn't really matter."

      Greater good wrote: This is one of the biggest problems with shared universes. There's less artistic freedom when you have to make your work fit together with everyone else's.

      Marvelus wrote:

      Marvelus wrote: One more to go.

      Until the timeline goes to sh*t 😂😂

      Eh there's no definitive point when that did happen or will happen, it's always been a mess. This is the latest iteration.

      DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: I guessed that JJ S3 would be post-snap, which I don't really have a problem with. I just have to assume that all discussion to the snap and things related to it happen off-screen. The bad thing to me is that there's probably going to be some interview where someone involved on the show (coughjephloebcough) will say it's before Infinity War.

      Oh I absolutely guessed it would be, just there was some hope for wiggle room to make it pre-Snap. I just find it very hard to believe only a few months later that when we follow these characters for 13 episodes, no one once mentions anything. It would explain what happened to Oscar though😂.

      I find the lack of acknowledgement much more egregious than any inevitable Jeph Loeb comment. We know Loeb's comments can be ignored if necessary because Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. proved the point that this is not about the actual dates but just convenience.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Do you remember the link for that photo? I'm second guessing if we saw in that photo a camera crew filming her or if was just Ritter buying something for Halloween and we misinterpreted it.

      Marvelus wrote: I posted, several months ago.

      BEJT wrote: Pretty sure the picture was from around mid-September because I remember thinking "OK that must be from the show since it's like 6 weeks until Hallowe'en".

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Found it. Yeah, don't know. It might have been just her shopping between scenes? It's easy to guess this is Trish making her Hellcat costume but might have jumped the gun.

      Maybe it's just between scenes. Hopefully. The thought had crossed my mind, I just think that as mentioned above, the picture wasn't from Hallowe'en time.

      Tying in with your comment about the costume, I'm not 100% sure what you're saying there and this might be what you were saying anyway, but maybe it's also just a shop for costumes, and the logo is basically saying "Costumes for all occasions: Hallowe'en - Fancy dress - ..." etc.. Fingers crossed, we'll see soon enough.

      May 2018 would be ideal since it keeps the chronological order of the Netflix shows right to the end and is pre-Snap.

      Also that photo's odd, are both her feet off the ground? Like she's jumping? Because it doesn't look like she's jumping otherwise.


      Novels (additional)

      About to post my notes for Ant-Man and the Wasp: The Heroes' Journey. Have also been reading Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War: The Cosmic Quest Volume One: Beginning, about a quarter through it, and it's set between Thor: Ragnarok and Avengers: Infinity War (further supporting a gap between those films).

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    • Ant-Man and the Wasp: The Heroes' Journey notes.

      • "Chapter One": Scott talks to Cassie and thinks about his house arrest.
        • p1 - Cassie is said to be a "ten-year-old", so between July 2017 and Ant-Man and the Wasp.
          • p1 - Cassie is said to be a "ten-year-old".
          • p3 - Scott and Maggie's divorce was "a few years back".
        • p3 - "Now Cassie lived with her mom and stepdad full time, and she visited Scott on weekends." This cements the implication from Ant-Man and the Wasp and makes this a weekend.
          • p4 - Scott had an incident "about a week or so after he was first placed under house arrest" where he forgot about his ankle monitor and stepped out to get the newspaper, then was swarmed by agents when the monitor went off.
      • "Chapter Two": Scott reminisces about Luis telling the art gallery story. He talks to Cassie about Hawkeye, recalling Barton picking him up and taking him to Germany, and how he had worried about Hank and Hope but ultimately decided, poorly, that he didn't have to contact them.
          • p6 - When Luis told Scott the art gallery story, Scott "had just defeated a guy named Darren Cross, saved Cassie, and turned an ant into the size of a large dog". It should really be 4 months later, but there's definitely wiggle room there.
        • Flashback: p6 - Scott recalls Luis telling him the story about the writer and Sam.
          • p7 - In a quote from Ant-Man, it is said that Ignacio met the writer woman at the Spot the night before the art gallery.
          • p9 - Somewhat of a bridging of the gap between Ant-Man and Captain America: Civil War: "Once Scott knew that the Avengers were looking for him, it was only a matter of time before he was tracked down by one of their number - Clint Barton."
          • p9 - Scott recalls how Hawkeye had shown up on his doorstep to take him during Captain America: Civil War.
          • p9 - ""But me? Really?" Scott had asked. "What about Hulk or one of those guys? Wouldn't Captain America want a really strong guy?" Barton had shrugged his shoulders." Bit of a weird moment considering it's supposed to be during Captain America: Civil War but I guess Hulk just doesn't know and Clint is shrugging his shoulders more just about the general "really strong guy" comment.
        • Flashback: p10 - Scott recalls meeting Steve at the airport. Weirdly, Wanda is described as having red hair.
          • p11 - Captain America "had been frozen for seventy years".
            • In a quote from Captain America: Civil War, Tic-Tacs exist in the MCU.
        • Flashback: p11 - Scott recalls that right after meeting Steve, he was nervous about Hank and Hope, but ultimately decided not to worry.
      • "Chapter Three": Hope finds herself tired of spending so much time with Hank. She recalls her lonely childhood when Hank retreated after Janet's "death". She is annoyed at Scott that because of him, they are now criminals.
          • p17 - Hank became Ant-Man and started being away for longer and longer stretches of time, then eventually Janet convinced him she should join and they made the Wasp suit.
      • "Chapter Four": Cassie interrupts Scott telling the Germany story to ask for his story of becoming Ant-Man. He recalls stealing the Ant-Man suit and his first time using it in the bath.
            • Robin Hood stories.
          • p22 - "Scott had been sent to San Quentin for three years".
          • p24 - Talking about Baskin-Robbins (although they don't name it due to there being no product tie-in here, to the point where it slightly ridiculously says, "As Luis told him, Ice cream always finds out"), "The shop had been a brief reprieve in an otherwise unemployed first few months back out on the job scene." This would perhaps imply a few months between his release and the Baskin-Robbins job, but due to WHiH it can't be. However, the line leaves room for him to have continued to try to get a job after the main events of Ant-Man for further months and found nothing.
        • Flashback: p24 - Scott recalls stealing the suit.
        • Flashback: p26 - Scott recalls the bath trial.
      • "Chapter Five": Jimmy Woo calls for a daily check-in. Scott thinks about how he hadn't realised the consequences of his actions when he went to Germany. Woo hangs up and Cassie asks about him fighting superheroes.
          • p28 - Jimmy Woo does a "daily check-in", so every day - but sometimes just by phone.
          • p29 - "Scott had been allowed to return to the United States and serve a two-year sentence under house arrest."
      • "Chapter Six": Hope hits a practice dummy in frustration. She recalls finding out about her mother, then working on the Quantum Tunnel until Scott messed up.
        • Flashback: p35 - Hope recalls finding out the truth about her mother.
          • p36 - In a quote from Ant-Man, it is said that Janet's disappearance was 1987.
          • p37 - In a quote from Ant-Man, it is said that Hank spent the next 10 years researching the Quantum Realm.
          • p38 - "After the Yellowjacket affair, Hank and Hope devoted themselves to finding a way to reach the Quantum Realm and return alive - and with Janet in tow. They worked quietly, under the radar, using Hank's resources to fund the project. Based on what they had learned from Scott, they are making progress. They were maybe less than a year away from perfecting the Quantum Tunnel, as Hank had christened it. In less than a year, they would have a way to explore the Quantum Realm safely, to try to find Hope's mother and bring her home. Until Scott ruined everything." This means the opening scene of Ant-Man and the Wasp with Hank and Hope is likely shortly after "It's about damn time", maybe a week or so once Hank has had some time to think.
      • "Chapter Seven": Hope remembers the day of the airport, how annoyed Scott made her, and how Hank had taken them on the run quickly.
          • p41 - "While she and Hank had been toiling in his basement laboratory, trying to perfect the tech needed to make the Quantum Tunnel a reality, Scott had slunk off to Germany without anyone knowing."
          • p41 - "Like almost everyone else on the planet, she and Hank had found out about it on the news."
          • p42 - "In the time since the Yellowjacket affair, Hank had been conducting some research alongside Scott. And one of the things they had discovered was that if a person could use the Pym Particles to shrink and return to their normal size, then they could also use them to grow taller."
        • Flashback: p43 - After the airport fight, Hope and Hank find out from an old S.H.I.E.L.D. contact that authorities are already on the way. They shrink things down and Hank reveals he had prepared the lab for an event like this.
          • p45 - The Raft is "somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean", which affects the timings of Captain America: Civil War.
      • "Chapter Eight": Scott and Cassie play Connect 4. Cassie asks Scott why ants in particular, and Scott discusses with her how they are strong and work together well. Scott thinks about when he learned to communicate with the ants. Luis enters and says they have an urgent business problem.
            • p46 - Connect 4.
        • Flashback: p48 - Scott learns to communicate with the ants and spin a coin.
      • "Chapter Nine": Luis tells one of his fast stories: this time about how his friend Floyd's brother Lester knows a guy who's working for a guy who needs some security because he's doing business with some shady types, whose name is not allowed to be given, but is working with some people who used to work for an old big tech company, who sounds like Pym Technologies. He says that the guy everyone's working for is called "Sonny", no surname.
          • p54 - After Scott got home following Germany, he considered calling Hope but was scared and didn't, but knows he disappointed her.
            • p54 - Catch-22.
        • Scott finding out that Hank and Hope might be working with a man called Sonny doesn't really fit with Ant-Man and the Wasp, when Scott has to ask Hank who Sonny is. However, he doesn't know what Sonny looks like so in the film it would still make sense that he asks who the man is. It's just a bit odd that he doesn't respond that he heard about him, but I guess he's feeling generally very guilty and doesn't want to object.
      • "Chapter Ten": Hope gets a new part from Sonny Burch in a grubby diner (he doesn't address her as Hope, we know he doesn't until Ant-Man and the Wasp because she still thinks he doesn't know who she is). She is assertive to make sure the deal is done fairly and he doesn't cheat them, but is worried about people in the diner potentially listening in.
          • p58 - Hank and Sonny "had crossed paths during Hank's S.H.I.E.L.D. days".
          • p59 - S.H.I.E.L.D. "had fought against [Hydra] for years". Not sure what point that fighting is supposed to have begun - the 1940s or 2014. But it works either way.
      • "Chapter Eleven": Scott and Cassie build a blanket fort. Scott's ankle monitor spontaneously goes off and he accidentally destroys the fort. Scott dashes to get to his phone and let the FBI know he hasn't done anything. Luis interrupts him and says they need to do a presentation. Before Scott can get to his phone, Jimmy Woo arrives at the door.
      • "Chapter Twelve": Jimmy Woo visits, but tells Scott he has done nothing wrong. They replace his ankle monitor, but Scott realises Jimmy is clearly suspicious that he's been in contact with Hank and Hope and checking if anything's happened.
      • "Chapter Thirteen": Cassie says that she wants to be like Ant-Man when she grows up, but when Scott says to keep that secret, she says her other wish is to run an ice cream store. Scott calls Sam Wilson (who is on the run), asking for information about a man called "Sonny".
          • p79 - Sonny "had contact with a couple of people from Pym Technologies in the last couple weeks".
      • "Chapter Fourteen": Hank and Hope work on the Quantum Tunnel. Hank can't even think about the possibility that they don't find Janet. Hope walks out onto the beach they've set up on and thinks, feeling she might actually miss Scott.
        • p83 - It has been "at least six hours" since Hope returned from her meeting with Sonny, it's the same day.
            • p83 - "Hope and Hank had been working on the Quantum Tunnel for at least six hours since she returned from her meeting with Sonny Burch.
        • p84 - The diner was "earlier that day".
      • "Chapter Fifteen": Luis and Cassie ask about Falcon. Scott recalls meeting him.
        • Flashback: p87 - Scott arrives at Howard Stark's old warehouse and finds it's now the New Avengers Facility. He meets Falcon.
      • "Chapter Sixteen": Scott recalls his fight with Falcon.
        • Flashback: p92 - Scott fights Falcon at the New Avengers Facility.
      • "Chapter Seventeen": Hope is approached by a man on the beach. He addresses her as Hope and she realises something is wrong and tackles him. He explains he was in the diner earlier, and she recognises him. He says he can help them and is from a group of Hank's old friends, not S.H.I.E.L.D., but Hope is terrified that they've been sloppy and knocks him out and runs.
      • "Chapter Eighteen": Hope tells Hank they need to go. They pack up fast and shrink the lab, but as they rush to leave, they find the man back up and with a weapon. They regrow the lab, taking him by surprise, and take him down. As they get away, his weapon goes off with some sort of electricity beam.
        • p102 - They obtained the vial from Sonny "earlier that day".
      • "Chapter Nineteen": Sam gets back to Scott to let him know that the man he's looking for is Sonny Burch, and that he's dangerous. Luis plays hide and seek with Cassie, and Scott considers putting on the Ant-Man suit to try to help Hank and Hope out. He retrieves the World's Greatest Grandma trophy, but comes across Cassie as she hides and changes his mind, putting the suit back in the base.
        • OK, this is a problem. Scott now knows Sonny's surname, yet in Ant-Man and the Wasp he asks "Who's Burch?" when "Burch" is mentioned by Hank and Hope. I guess you can assume he's just caught up in the moment and not thinking straight, or he's asking to check what's happening in hopes that they won't confirm his fears. That would also fit in with him then later asking who the man is that Hope is talking to - he's worried it's Sonny Burch.
      • "Chapter Twenty": Maggie picks up Cassie. Once they've gone, Scott calls Jimmy Woo to let them know about Sonny Burch, hoping that the FBI will stop him, therefore helping Hank and Hope get out of danger.
        • Maggie picking up Cassie should make it Sunday.
            • p114 - It's afternoon.
        • p115 - Scott will see Cassie again "next weekend".
        • p115 - Woo mentions Scott has now contacted him three times today.
      • "Chapter Twenty-One": Hope drives her and Hank away. She says they might need help, and cautiously mentions Scott, but Hank immediately refuses. Hope recalls first meeting Scott. She snaps back to attention and Hank has fallen asleep.
        • p119 - They've been "on the road for hours". Everything so far all takes place on 1 day, Sunday.
            • p119 - They've been "on the road for hours".
        • Flashback: p121 - Hope meets Scott when he wakes on the bed surrounded by ants. She then went downstairs and Scott got down soon after.
            • p124 - It's dark.
      • "Chapter Twenty-Two": Scott wakes from a dream that he can't remember strongly, but reminded him of the Quantum Realm, and he thinks there might have been a voice. He considers phoning Hank and Hope, but realises he needs someone to dissuade him. He calls Maggie and she manages to talk him down, but says he will do the right thing. He goes to sleep again and wakes up this time sure that he hadn't had just a dream, having had the same feeling as if he had actually been in the Quantum Realm. He wonders how long he can putt off making the call.
        • I've gone into more detail here than other chapters because it's important for how it fits with Ant-Man and the Wasp. In Ant-Man and the Wasp they say that they activated the Quantum Tunnel for the first time and then 5 minutes later Scott called, and they think that opening the Tunnel triggered the message in his head. But here he's having a dream before they've finished the Tunnel. However, it's not as clear or strong, so perhaps it's just the alignment of the Quantum Realm that Janet talks about in the film is meaning the link is becoming stronger, and then they open the Tunnel and he later has the much clearer dream.
            • p129 - By the end, the sun is coming up, so it should be Monday now.
      • "Chapter Twenty-Three": Scott thinks about whether to contact them. He eventually decides to call. Hope, meanwhile, is tired of driving. Hank looks at his phone and sees who is calling. Scott wonders if that was the smartest thing or the dumbest thing he could have done.
        • p131 - "It had been a long night, and Hope was tired of driving. She was tired of running. Just plain tired. Of everything." This implies it's the same night, but not necessarily.
        • There is the possibility of a break in time between Chapter Twenty-Two and Chapter Twenty-Three, and this is just essentially an adaptation of the scene of Scott deciding to call them in Ant-Man and the Wasp, a week after the rest of the book. The quote about Hope mentioned above could just mean that this is another night of driving, it doesn't have to refer to the same night. We know Scott called 5 minutes after they tried the Quantum Tunnel and it stopped working, but maybe they've just got back into the van after it failed, to start driving again.
      • "Epilogue": Sitting at a table, Hank plays Hope the voicemail. Hope realises this is the beginning of something.
        • It would've worked for this to be between Scott calling them and Hope sedating him in Ant-Man and the Wasp, but the message doesn't line up enough:

      Ant-Man and the Wasp: The Heroes' Journey

      Hey Hank... it's been a while.
      Not sure if this number even works anymore.

      And I know you probably don't want to hear from me anyway, but...
      Well, I just had a really weird dream.
      I guess that's not an emergency, except it felt very real.

      I was back in the Quantum Realm. And... I think I saw your wife.
      And there was a little girl. I'm pretty sure it was Hope.
      Your wife's very pretty, by the way, great hands.
      Okay, hearing this out loud, definitely not an emergency, sorry I bothered you.
      I'm sorry for a lot of things.

      Ant-Man and the Wasp


      Hey, Hank... it's been a while.
      Umm... I don't even know if this is your number... anymore.
      And I'm, I'm probably the last person you wanna hear from, but...
      I just had a really weird dream.
      And I know that doesn't sound like an emergency or anything, but it just felt... very real.
      I was back in the Quantum Realm. And... I think I saw your wife.
      And then I was your wife.
      I mean not, yanno, not in a weird way, or... anything.
      You know... hearing this out loud, I'm thinking, err, it's not an emergency, I'm sorry to bother you.
      I'm sorry for a lot of things.

        • They're too different to find a way to make them be the same message, but pretty similar which makes it tough to believe that they're two distinct messages some time apart. I'm willing to believe, however, that Scott had these first two unclear dreams as the Quantum Realm lined up, and braved calling them - allowing it to be the same morning as Chapter Twenty-Two which does feel more natural and no assumptions need to be made about having not just been driving and instead opening the Quantum Tunnel - then a week later, when he has the more explicit dream, he calls again because this was a stronger vision so he believes it's worth trying again (only to again feel like he's just being annoying), wording it similarly as he thinks the last message didn't get through. Hank and Hope don't follow up on the first message because they think it probably means nothing, it just makes them start to think about potentially reaching out to him - then when he calls 5 minutes after they open the Quantum Tunnel, it gives them reason to believe this is really something. Honestly, with the Sonny thing and this, I would be on the cusp of saying it contradicts canon. I imagine that just like the novelisations, it was based off the original script and so just doesn't quite align with the final shooting script. But the front specifically says "ROAD TO ANT-MAN AND THE WASP", the back specifically says "READ THE NEW ORIGINAL STORY THAT KICKS OFF: ANT-MAN AND THE WASP", and things like the World's Greatest Grandma trophy and the preparing a presentation for potential buyers, as well as the numerous callbacks to so much MCU canon and lining up in most regards and the fact it was promoted alongside the film as a new original story to be read before the film - with the official logo and licensing and everything - it really feels like it should be hard to throw out. I think it's just enough to keep it in.
        • The fact that Scott's dreams are starting, that they're starting to prepare the presentation for Karapetyan (though the company isn't named), and that the back says "READ THE NEW ORIGINAL STORY THAT KICKS OFF: ANT-MAN AND THE WASP", makes it definitely feel to me like this can be placed on the Sunday and Monday prior to Ant-Man and the Wasp.


      So, Sunday and Monday the week before the film, and I also need to move that opening scene of Ant-Man and the Wasp to August 11, 2015. Will write the events of the book onto the 2018 page, as well as the past events that are referenced that aren't just scenes from the films, soon-ish.

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    • Yaaaaay. JJ3 is going to wreck the timeline. Ugh, I liked it better when all the shows were a year behind.

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    • BEJT wrote:

      Maybe it's just between scenes. Hopefully. The thought had crossed my mind, I just think that as mentioned above, the picture wasn't from Hallowe'en time.

      Tying in with your comment about the costume, I'm not 100% sure what you're saying there and this might be what you were saying anyway, but maybe it's also just a shop for costumes, and the logo is basically saying "Costumes for all occasions: Hallowe'en - Fancy dress - ..." etc.. Fingers crossed, we'll see soon enough.

      Yes, I meant it's also possible we might have jumped the gun in thinking JJ season 3 is during Halloween when like you say, she could have been to a costume shop -- like we have places like Party City that are open all year round, not just during the holiday season.
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    • You got me so excited for an actual reference :(

      Still, it's fun to even see Tom mostly in-character mention it.

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    • Sorry man 😂 I have a feeling that the Spider-Man movies will reference the Netflix shows somehow. Seeing Holland as Parker mentioning Daredevil had me freaking out a lot.

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    • LOL I would actually not mind that being canon.

      But honestly, it wouldn't take a lot to mention the Defenders. Isn't Manhattan (where Harlem, Hell's Kitchen, and Rand Enterprises are all located) just across the Hudson from Queens? You're telling me Peter's never heard of any of them? Daredevil constantly makes newspaper headlines, while Jessica is a celebrity and Luke's an international figure. And then Danny's a billionaire, and Frank's an urban legend.

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    • To be honest. Spider-Man might have heard of them. But Daredevil is not a constant hero so the headlines were just from all across 2015 and late 2017. Nothing else. Luke must be known of course, but why would he mention him? Xd

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    • Hey I just kinda realized something, if this has already been thought of ignore me rn, but Hawkeye had the tracker on his ankle during the Endgame scene when the Snap occurred right? So he was still on house arrest when the Snap occurred. Ant-Man was not on house arrest when the Snap occurred. So does this mean Ant-Man for sure did have a reduced sentence??

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    • We can use that to back up our placement at some point, yes

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    • I'm starting to work Punisher season 2 into my chronological supercut of the MCU, but what's everyone's best guess as to when in April/may/June the saga of Shield, AntMan/Wasp, and Infinity War starts? Is it likely the end of Punisher will overlap with any of it, or is the jury still out until Far From Home gives more info? I'll probably end up going back to change it at some point, but just curious what's most likely at this point

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    • I am very sure AoS5/Infinity War/Ant-Man and the Wasp will move until very late June 2018. After this Friday, and once Spider-Man: Far From Home settles, the dates for all those events will be ready and finished. It is just a matter of days/weeks.

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    • Watching my 4K copy of Captain Marvel and noticed that when she enters the Bar there's a flyer for Poker Night on June 25th. Even more proof the film is June 1995. 

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    • I was not even alive in 1995. But thats cool gives us a narrower window on the flims dates

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    • Nice! Good eye, Rman823. Helps a lot since Rambeau didn't cross off the days on her calendar in her house, heh.

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    • Marvelus I am very sure AoS5/Infinity War/Ant-Man and the Wasp will move until very late June 2018. After this Friday, and once Spider-Man: Far From Home settles, the dates for all those events will be ready and finished. It is just a matter of days/weeks.

      (Sorry idk how to quote on here especially on my phone) But great that's super helpful in what should be an impossible plate of spaghetti to straighten out! I guess if that ends up being concrete it would move the Talbot/Hale flashback in Rise and Shine to December 2017, after the team is already back from the future. That's interesting to keep in mind when rewatching

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    • Yep. Everything will settle. I am actually excited to see how everything gets itself together. Actually, to be honest, this entire block in the MCU is the one with more contradictory evidence xD.

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    • Jessica Jones: Season 3 (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Mrmichaelt)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Yaaaaay. JJ3 is going to wreck the timeline. Ugh, I liked it better when all the shows were a year behind.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Yes, I meant it's also possible we might have jumped the gun in thinking JJ season 3 is during Halloween when like you say, she could have been to a costume shop -- like we have places like Party City that are open all year round, not just during the holiday season.

      We'll find out soon enough.


      Avengers: Infinity War (Ben 1,000,911, Marvelus, Nox23)

      Ben 1,000,911 wrote: Hey I just kinda realized something, if this has already been thought of ignore me rn, but Hawkeye had the tracker on his ankle during the Endgame scene when the Snap occurred right? So he was still on house arrest when the Snap occurred. Ant-Man was not on house arrest when the Snap occurred. So does this mean Ant-Man for sure did have a reduced sentence??

      Yeah we had that discussion when the trailer showed the ankle monitor, seeing as everyone pretty much guessed that was going to be the moment of the Snap. It's much more likely that Clint's house arrest just took a little longer to arrange than Scott's.

      Marvelus wrote: We can use that to back up our placement at some point, yes

      Eh, I guess it helps a tiny tiny bit, but making the assumption of time off the sentence is already quite a leap considering it is never stated and doesn't seem to be the way the law works.

      Nox23 wrote: I'm starting to work Punisher season 2 into my chronological supercut of the MCU, but what's everyone's best guess as to when in April/may/June the saga of Shield, AntMan/Wasp, and Infinity War starts? Is it likely the end of Punisher will overlap with any of it, or is the jury still out until Far From Home gives more info? I'll probably end up going back to change it at some point, but just curious what's most likely at this point

      Sorry, they might overlap. We just don't know yet. I had a discussion about it recently. Not so much waiting for Far from Home (no particular reason that would give information about dates 5 years ago) as Jessica Jones and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D..

      Marvelus wrote: I am very sure AoS5/Infinity War/Ant-Man and the Wasp will move until very late June 2018. After this Friday, and once Spider-Man: Far From Home settles, the dates for all those events will be ready and finished. It is just a matter of days/weeks.

      As discussed recently, the very latest that things could get settled is August with the end of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6, not Far from Home. It depends on whether anything comes up before then to give us a clear answer or not. If not then that's the latest we wait.

      Nox23 wrote: (Sorry idk how to quote on here especially on my phone) But great that's super helpful in what should be an impossible plate of spaghetti to straighten out! I guess if that ends up being concrete it would move the Talbot/Hale flashback in Rise and Shine to December 2017, after the team is already back from the future. That's interesting to keep in mind when rewatching

      I brought this up when I did the analysis, it makes more sense for it to be before they get back, so early December 2017. Still 6 months before June.

      Marvelus wrote: Yep. Everything will settle. I am actually excited to see how everything gets itself together. Actually, to be honest, this entire block in the MCU is the one with more contradictory evidence xD.

      More compared to what?


      Captain Marvel (Rman823, LoreMaster22, Mrmichaelt)

      Rman823 wrote: Watching my 4K copy of Captain Marvel and noticed that when she enters the Bar there's a flyer for Poker Night on June 25th. Even more proof the film is June 1995. 

      Thank you! The film doesn't come out on DVD for another month here so I haven't been able to watch for things like this.

      LoreMaster22 wrote: I was not even alive in 1995. But thats cool gives us a narrower window on the flims dates

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Nice! Good eye, Rman823. Helps a lot since Rambeau didn't cross off the days on her calendar in her house, heh.

      It fits with the full moon date as well.

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    • As has become usual with Netflix (one last time) I will start my note process as I start watching tomorrow. I will watch 1-4, then rewatch 1-4, then watch 5-9, then rewatch 5-9, then watch 10-13, then rewatch 10-13. And as always, I will have the one message that I will keep editing, where on first watch if there's any big piece of info I'll note it, but the full notes I will only write on rewatching each episode.

      It will probably take me until about next Thursday to finish the season so sorry that it will take a little while. Because Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Episode 5 also releases after the whole season, just working my way through the list means I won't be watching it until I've watched all of Jessica Jones: Season 3, so probably just after I watch the finale, before I rewatch Episode 10. So it will also end up taking me about 5 days to watch this weekend's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D..

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    • The last couple days at work Ive had on my interwoven videos of Cloak and Dagger, Iron Fist and Daredevil and it's real fun. Some of the depressing/energetic music from Cloak and Dagger works real well fading into scenes of Daredevil which is a nice treat. Thanks for all the help interpreting it all, you guys are rockstars

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    • No spoilers, but the costume shop is just that, it obviously advertises Halloween costumes, but under the name it just says "New York Costume Shop", which tells me it's open year round.

      Also, there's a fair amount of people wearing windbreakers and light jackets, so maybe it's still early 2018? I remember the cold weather (in Massachusetts, at least) went well into late May last year. (This year, it's still cold today in mid-June.)

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    • There is a game playing in episode 1 I am not good with American sports so if anyone can tell what the clubs are maybe we can have a date of the game.

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    • I'm a couple episodes in, and there's also a pumpkin sticker when Jessica meets the guy at the bar. It's in the background, so hopefully it can be ignored or assumed that it's just been leftover. But other than that I think it could easily be Spring/Summer 2018. EDIT: I completely forgot about the Football game which would place the season in the Fall. 

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    • Season began filming on June 2018. So we can place it for sure around May-June 2018. Doesn't seem like Halloween for me.

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    • Football Season in America begins in September and we can see a game on TV. I noticed a Julia Roberts People magazine cover in the background of a newsstand and found that it was from May 2017. So, it didn't help. 

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    • What makes you belive it is a recent game? They can still show an old game.

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    • Chances are they meant for the game to be live. I don't see why a bar would have an old game on sometime in the Spring. 

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    • Yeah. I doubt it...

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    • Why I have never seen a bar play a months or a year old game. It is ALWAYS live.

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    • I have seen otherwise xD. And that does not mean anything anyway. It is the MCU, different Universe to us.

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    • Yeah, but it still reflects real life to a point. The days of the week are the same, months are the same, years, wars, etc. It can be assumed that it came out when it did until it can't, in my opinion.

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    • Yeah. The days of the week are not the same. It is the leniency we take to place the things in the timeline. Everything so far points out to Mid 2018.

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    • Meh, I think that that's just a mistake. A canonical mistake timeline-wise, but I don't think there's a rule making it so that any item in the Marvel Cinematic Universe has to follow an incorrect system of days, if you get what I mean. As I said, until it can't.

      Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

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    • We take leniency in here to lie everything down. That is my knowledge so far.

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    • Fair enough.

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    • There are examples where the days match and times they don't. For example, the June calendar in Captain Marvel is accurate. 

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    • Some days match. Some days do not match which indicates the days of the months in the MCU change from year to year... So yes" leniency.

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    • Over on the comic board, Lebnyx found out that at 38 minutes in, the Empire State Building is green. Selfishmisery pointed out that this could be in reference to Earth Day 2018, which was on 22nd April 2018. https://www.thecomicboard.com/threads/marvel-cinematic-universe-timeline-continued.14631/page-58

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    • That is great!!! Thank you so much ProBot1227.

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    • 3 episodes in and if you ignore the Football game at the bar, I think the season could easily be Spring/Summer 2018. Not entirely sure when exactly filming began (I know it was some point in June) but the ESB was also lit green June 15th which could have been when it was filmed. Another possibility is August 15th. 

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    • Just got a line "Mothers day is six months away" which is probably the most specific a Netflix show has ever been regarding time. Also Trish has commented on having her powers at least a full year and Malcolm has plans to be working where he's working for "another year" which possibly implies he's passed the year mark. So it sounds like November 2018 which would explain a football game being on. Regardless I'm really enjoying the season so far, idk why the reviews have been sour, probably because it can't possibly live up to being the grand finale for all of Marvel Netflix.

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    • Didn't Trish say something about being Spring in Episode 2? And that "Mother's Day" line is problematic. I am loving the Season as well @Nox23.

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    • So post snap? SMH ;(

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    • So, once again it's "pre snap" even though it's post snap. From what we've seen, I think it's a little harder to pretend this is a post snap world like A.O.S. Especially if this is just mere months after it. And the lines about it being a year confirm that it can't be October-November 2017, ugh. But the football game and pumpkin sticker at the bar help support the Mother's Day line. Oh well. 

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    • Nox23's Videos (Nox23)

      Nox23 wrote: The last couple days at work Ive had on my interwoven videos of Cloak and Dagger, Iron Fist and Daredevil and it's real fun. Some of the depressing/energetic music from Cloak and Dagger works real well fading into scenes of Daredevil which is a nice treat. Thanks for all the help interpreting it all, you guys are rockstars

      Thank you, and sorry that we couldn't yet provide the exact order of scenes for you. There's a backlog of work on the timeline to be done. Getting through it.


      Jessica Jones: Season 3 (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Assassin1and2, Rman823, Marvelus, ProBot1227)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: No spoilers, but the costume shop is just that, it obviously advertises Halloween costumes, but under the name it just says "New York Costume Shop", which tells me it's open year round.

      Also, there's a fair amount of people wearing windbreakers and light jackets, so maybe it's still early 2018? I remember the cold weather (in Massachusetts, at least) went well into late May last year. (This year, it's still cold today in mid-June.)

      Thank you! I've only watched Episode 1 so far.

      At the end of Episode 1 it says it's "18°" at "8:46PM". I'm assuming Fahrenheit, but that's very cod - it's lower than the average daily low for any month of the year in New York.

      I know at least some of some o fit was filmed during a very hot time, Krysten Ritter talked about it in the featurette about her directing.

      Assassin1and2 wrote: There is a game playing in episode 1 I am not good with American sports so if anyone can tell what the clubs are maybe we can have a date of the game.

      Yeah I spent a long time researching to try and find out who the teams are, but I can't. "RPC" vs. "BU" - the only thing I could find was Boston University but it would also seem that they don't play American football anymore.

      Rman823 wrote: I'm a couple episodes in, and there's also a pumpkin sticker when Jessica meets the guy at the bar. It's in the background, so hopefully it can be ignored or assumed that it's just been leftover. But other than that I think it could easily be Spring/Summer 2018. EDIT: I completely forgot about the Football game which would place the season in the Fall. 

      I didn't notice that, will have to look out for it on rewatch.

      Spring 2018 would be ideal. If necessary and possible it can be late 2017, which annoyingly breaks the Netflix chronological order but is better than it being post-Snap.

      Does anyone who's watched a few episodes know if there is a line in the ones they've watched about it being a year since Season 2?

      Marvelus wrote: Season began filming on June 2018. So we can place it for sure around May-June 2018. Doesn't seem like Halloween for me.

      Late June to December. Krysten did Episode 2 which would've been around July, so that makes sense for why she talked about how hot it was.

      If it places itself when it filmed it would be around September 2018. Let's hope not.

      Rman823 wrote: Football Season in America begins in September and we can see a game on TV. I noticed a Julia Roberts People magazine cover in the background of a newsstand and found that it was from May 2017. So, it didn't help. 

      It's annoying that American football season is so limited over just a few months. I was thinking "OK well this basically just rules out like summer I'm assuming, which was the least likely time it would be taking place anyway", but looked it up and found out American football season is only like September-December?

      It's not the be all and end all. There's the Running of the Bulls thing in All the Comforts of Home that just ultimately gets discarded. It's easier to assume the game is at a weird time of the year or it's maybe just highlights from a game than to assume the Snap has happened (unless this is 2017).

      Thanks for checking that magazine. I stopped and analysed all the computers in the episode but the only thing was Jeri having folders on her desktop for 2016 cases and 2017 cases, essentially meaning this is no earlier than 2017 - which we already knew.

      Marvelus wrote: What makes you belive it is a recent game? They can still show an old game.

      It's not likely, especially since this doesn't appear to be popular teams. But it might be highlights from last season or something.

      Rman823 wrote: Chances are they meant for the game to be live. I don't see why a bar would have an old game on sometime in the Spring. 

      Definitely meant to be live, but likely not done with care.

      Marvelus wrote: Yeah. I doubt it...

      Assassin1and2 wrote: Why I have never seen a bar play a months or a year old game. It is ALWAYS live.

      Marvelus wrote: I have seen otherwise xD. And that does not mean anything anyway. It is the MCU, different Universe to us.

      Well it does mean something. Just it's not the end of the world.

      ProBot1227 wrote: Yeah, but it still reflects real life to a point. The days of the week are the same, months are the same, years, wars, etc. It can be assumed that it came out when it did until it can't, in my opinion.

      Marvelus wrote: Yeah. The days of the week are not the same. It is the leniency we take to place the things in the timeline. Everything so far points out to Mid 2018.

      The days of the week are the same. There's sufficient evidence that they're the same, and the times they're not are just mistakes.

      Nothing so far has actually pointed to mid-2018, that's just the hope.

      ProBot1227 wrote: Meh, I think that that's just a mistake. A canonical mistake timeline-wise, but I don't think there's a rule making it so that any item in the Marvel Cinematic Universe has to follow an incorrect system of days, if you get what I mean. As I said, until it can't.

      Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

      I think I'm following what you're saying - if you're asking if there's some consistent offset to the dates, there isn't. This discussion has been had a few times over the years, there's much more evidence for the dates being the same than there is for them being -3, -2, -1, +1, +2, or +3.

      Marvelus wrote: We take leniency in here to lie everything down. That is my knowledge so far.

      What do you mean?

      ProBot1227 wrote: Fair enough.

      Rman823 wrote: There are examples where the days match and times they don't. For example, the June calendar in Captain Marvel is accurate. 

      Yeah, and there's not only more evidence for matching than not, but if you look at it as the seven options and not just "match or not match":

      • Thursdays in the real world are Mondays in the MCU (-3)
      • Thursdays in the real world are Tuesdays in the MCU (-2)
      • Thursdays in the real world are Wednesdays in the MCU (-1)
      • Thursdays in the real world are Thursdays in the MCU (0)
      • Thursdays in the real world are Fridays in the MCU (+1)
      • Thursdays in the real world are Saturdays in the MCU (+2)
      • Thursdays in the real world are Sundays in the MCU (+3)

      There's way, way more evidence for 0 than any other option.

      Marvelus wrote: Some days match. Some days do not match which indicates the days of the months in the MCU change from year to year... So yes" leniency.

      No no the ones that are off are just wrong. This has been discussed before, considering all the calendars we've seen, the MCU doesn't have any sort of weird extra days or anything, it's just the same dates as the real world and occasionally there's a prop mistake.

      ProBot1227 wrote: Over on the comic board, Lebnyx found out that at 38 minutes in, the Empire State Building is green. Selfishmisery pointed out that this could be in reference to Earth Day 2018, which was on 22nd April 2018. https://www.thecomicboard.com/threads/marvel-cinematic-universe-timeline-continued.14631/page-58

      I don't look at The Comic Board anymore because I don't have time to catch up yet and I get frustrated when I'm reading a conversation and can't reply to it. But thank you, I do try to look up when there's a significant Empire State Building colour, though it looked just like the normal standard white colour to me.

      Marvelus wrote: That is great!!! Thank you so much ProBot1227.

      Rman823 wrote: 3 episodes in and if you ignore the Football game at the bar, I think the season could easily be Spring/Summer 2018. Not entirely sure when exactly filming began (I know it was some point in June) but the ESB was also lit green June 15th which could have been when it was filmed. Another possibility is August 15th. 

      Yeah late June. The Empire State Building often doesn't match, it's not too important, but also it looked white to me.

      Nox23 wrote: Just got a line "Mothers day is six months away" which is probably the most specific a Netflix show has ever been regarding time. Also Trish has commented on having her powers at least a full year and Malcolm has plans to be working where he's working for "another year" which possibly implies he's passed the year mark. So it sounds like November 2018 which would explain a football game being on. Regardless I'm really enjoying the season so far, idk why the reviews have been sour, probably because it can't possibly live up to being the grand finale for all of Marvel Netflix.

      Yikes. Other than Daredevil doing Christmas and The Punisher doing "November"/Thanksgiving, yeah.

      Well, November 2018 then. *Sigh*. At least it's slightly longer post-Snap than we were worried about... but come on.

      Glad to hear you're enjoying it because yeah, not seen the best reviews.

      Marvelus wrote: Didn't Trish say something about being Spring in Episode 2? And that "Mother's Day" line is problematic. I am loving the Season as well @Nox23.

      ProBot1227 wrote: So post snap? SMH ;(

      *Throws hands in the air in exasperation.*

      Rman823 wrote: So, once again it's "pre snap" even though it's post snap. From what we've seen, I think it's a little harder to pretend this is a post snap world like A.O.S. Especially if this is just mere months after it. And the lines about it being a year confirm that it can't be October-November 2017, ugh. But the football game and pumpkin sticker at the bar help support the Mother's Day line. Oh well. 

      It's a ridiculous assumption. For goodness' sake.

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    • Well people. We are Post Snap again >:v

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    • I figured this was going to be the case but its still disappointing to have it confirmed. 

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    • I am okay with it. I am liking the season. For me it is not the end of the world. But lets Thank God that the Netflix shows got cancelled.

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    • The thing is you guys conviced me to try to watch some of the Netflex shows and now I know why I stick to moives. The characters just seem so weak compared to the OP powerhouses in the Movies. I get that this is street level heros but still even in the comics they are stronger then this. Sorry for offending anybody. 



      Also is there any mention of Danielle Cage or is she not a thing?

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    • Yeah, I'm really enjoying the season (same with A.O.S. Season 6) but there's always that thought in the back of my head on how they'ved messed with the timeline. I love the Netflix series, bu it's going to be nice to have the Disney + shows where Feige will make sure everything lines up. 

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    • I really don't like post-snap. Is there seriously no way to force it pre-snap? It looks like it... *cries in timeline*

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    • The fact that the show states that it's been over a year since Trish got her powers and the 6 months till Mother's Day line firmly place the season in Fall 2018. It's hard to work around it. 

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    • LoreMaster22 wrote: The thing is you guys conviced me to try to watch some of the Netflex shows and now I know why I stick to moives. The characters just seem so weak compared to the OP powerhouses in the Movies. I get that this is street level heros but still even in the comics they are stronger then this. Sorry for offending anybody. 



      Also is there any mention of Danielle Cage or is she not a thing?

      It is a shame tho. I think the MCU TV Shows do a better job to handle their heroes. They are cool beside being "weak". Also, Daredevil would crash Black Widow and Hawkeye.

      Danielle Cage does not exist in the MCU.

      Rman823 wrote: Yeah, I'm really enjoying the season (same with A.O.S. Season 6) but there's always that thought in the back of my head on how they'ved messed with the timeline. I love the Netflix series, bu it's going to be nice to have the Disney + shows where Feige will make sure everything lines up. 

      They haven't messed anything from me. That is just a big miscalculation between TV and films. The first one does not care about placing things anymore related to the movies, they just focus to do a great storyline, and Loeb mentioned some "time lords", I feel they are like talking to us.

      ProBot1227 wrote: I really don't like post-snap. Is there seriously no way to force it pre-snap? It looks like it... *cries in timeline*

      No bro, there is no way. But is not the end of the world. I don't think we can force it to be pre-Snap, there is no way. If they had just stayed to the general feeling the Netflix show have (being months between each) we might have worked it out, but nope. They are saying it is a year after S2 (strongly 2017), 6 months away from Mother's Day, Halloween scenario, yeah, we are most likely post Snap. There is no other way.

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    • Iron Fist killed a Dragon, Daredevil beats Black Window/Hawkeye, Luke Cage is freakin bullet proof, Jessica has super strength, and Frank Castle is... you know. That arguement never made sense to me, and in my opinion most tv characters are actually better characters than film characters.

      If we were to rank them in power, I'd think:

      Johnny Blaze/Ghost Rider

      Robbie Reyes/Ghost Rider

      Wanda Maximoff/Scarlet Witch

      Steven Strange/Doctor Strange

      Ancient One

      Nico Minoru

      Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel

      Thor Odinson

      Bruce Banner/Hulk

      Andrew Garner/Lash

      Skye/Daisy Johnson/Quake

      Vision

      Blackagar Boltagon

      Tony Stark/Iron Man

      Steve Rogers/Captain America

      Valkyrie

      T'Challa/Black Panther

      Hank Pym/Ant-Man

      Janet Van Dyne/Wasp

      Hope Van Dyne/Wasp

      Scott Lang/Ant-Man

      James Rhodes/War Machine

      Groot

      Pietro Maximoff/Quicksilver

      Elena Rodriguez/Slingshot

      Peter Parker/Spider-Man

      Bucky Barnes/The Winter Soldier

      Carl Lucas/Luke Cage/Power Man

      Carl Creel/Absorbing Man

      Mike Peterson/Deathlok

      Goose

      Elektra Natchios/The Black Sky

      Sam Wilson/Falcon

      Frigga

      Lady Sif

      Fandral

      Hogan

      Volstagg

      Skurge/Executioner

      Drax

      Karnak Mander-Azur

      Korg

      Gamora

      Karolina Dean

      Gorgon Petragon

      Matt Murdock/Daredevil

      Frank Castle/The Punisher

      Danny Rand/Iron Fist

      Colleen Wing

      Jessica Jones/Jewel

      Triton

      Crystalia Amaquelin

      Medusalith Amaquelin

      89P13/Rocket Raccoon

      Peter Quill/Star Lord

      Old Lace

      Tandy Bowen/Dagger

      Tyrone Johnson/Cloak

      Howard the Duck

      Jeffery Mace/The Patriot

      Molly Hernandez

      Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow

      Clint Barton/Hawkeye

      Lincoln Campbell

      Deke Shaw

      Nick Fury

      Melinda May

      Bobbi Morse/Mockingbird

      Chase Stein

      Mantis

      Lockjaw

      Ayo

      Nakia

      Peggy Carter

      Lance Hunter

      Phil Coulson

      Alphonso Mackenzie

      Timothy Dugan/Dum Dum Dugan

      Antoine Triplett

      Enoch

      Maria Hill

      Misty Knight

      Edwin Jarvis

      Jemma Simmons

      Leo Fitz

      Alex Wilder

      Gert Yorkes

      Cosmo the Spacedog

      So they hold up pretty good. Anyway, back to mourning the timeline.

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    • Agreed. If the Netflix heroes were put in the movies to have a collosal fight, I bet they would kick ass.

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    • Maybe we should pretend Valentines day is earlier in the MCU and the season is in spring? A canonical mistake?

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    • Yeah... I don't think that is how it works tho.

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    • Same, but I will do anything to get it before the Decimation. **ANYTHING**

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    • The only thing you can do is to accept it and move on. And it is not called Decimation anymore, that books has been deemed non canon after Avengers: Endgame.

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    • Well, i guess that Guardians of the Galaxy prelude comic is non-canon too, then. Joking, but yeah, snap seems like such a strange term...

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    • Well, it's supposed to be before the snap in a year after May 2017 in spring, 6 months before Valentines day. Great timeline, folks! Giving Cloak & Dagger a run for it's money!

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    • I've come to terms with these shows taking place between Infinity War and Endgame because I don't like aneurysms and I have my own mental workaround that works for me and me only. As for the Spring lines....uuuummmmm difficult but for now the only slight comfort is it takes episode 2 a while to catch up to whenever present day is. The scene that mentions Spring is the scene right before the attack on Brandt, right? Maybe I need to watch it again but it's possible she stalked him for months before making the move on him. Then again I can't really recall if they dropped any present day references before that scene; they may have. Gotta finish the season before I start rewatching

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    • Jessica Jones: Season 3 (Marvelus, Rman823, LoreMaster22, ProBot1227, Nox23)

      Marvelus wrote: Well people. We are Post Snap again >:v

      Rman823 wrote: I figured this was going to be the case but its still disappointing to have it confirmed.

      I was sure this would be the case but then had just started to get hopeful again.

      Still not the most annoying thing about the season. No, that's the fact that they changed the episode names to "A.K.A Something" rather than Season 1 and 2's "AKA Something". Not only is it inconsistent, they didn't even bother to make it "A.K.A.". Gah, really bugs me😂.

      Marvelus wrote: I am okay with it. I am liking the season. For me it is not the end of the world. But lets Thank God that the Netflix shows got cancelled.

      No I'm not going to be thankful of that. If they had been cancelled as of The Punisher: Season 2 then it's a silver lining to the cancellation that they never caught up, but this is the worst offender now. If the shows had continued, sure it's bad that they keep going on post-Snap without addressing it, but the worst has happened now anyway (passing the Snap to begin with, and the one closest to the Snap). And I don't wish real world consequences on these shows just because of unfortunate in-universe poor coordination and also something that isn't really the shows' fault anyway.

      LoreMaster22 wrote: The thing is you guys conviced me to try to watch some of the Netflex shows and now I know why I stick to moives. The characters just seem so weak compared to the OP powerhouses in the Movies. I get that this is street level heros but still even in the comics they are stronger then this. Sorry for offending anybody. 



      Also is there any mention of Danielle Cage or is she not a thing?

      Huh OK, I don't really care about power levels. Any power level can have an interesting story, and if anything it's easier to be interesting on a low level. If the problem is that like Iron Fist is only dealing with low level things and in the comics he's more like Avenger level, well I get how that might bother you but yeah, the Netflix shows can't do world-ending dangers due to the way they're made and their place within the wider universe. But I find that refreshingly different.

      I don't know who Danielle Cage is, is it one of Jessica and Luke's children? In which case no, they broke up in Jessica Jones: Season 1 after a very short time together.

      Rman823 wrote: Yeah, I'm really enjoying the season (same with A.O.S. Season 6) but there's always that thought in the back of my head on how they'ved messed with the timeline. I love the Netflix series, bu it's going to be nice to have the Disney + shows where Feige will make sure everything lines up. 

      It will be nice for those TV shows to line up, but it's a shame to lose a big chunk of Marvel Television's TV shows, which bring a variety of style to the MCU.

      ProBot1227 wrote: I really don't like post-snap. Is there seriously no way to force it pre-snap? It looks like it... *cries in timeline*

      Unless there's some wiggle room in the comments about a year.

      Rman823 wrote: The fact that the show states that it's been over a year since Trish got her powers and the 6 months till Mother's Day line firmly place the season in Fall 2018. It's hard to work around it. 

      Yeah, it's frustratingly specific. And Season 2 is really firmly 2017 (we were impressed by how consciously it seemed to be placed in 2017).

      Marvelus wrote: It is a shame tho. I think the MCU TV Shows do a better job to handle their heroes. They are cool beside being "weak". Also, Daredevil would crash Black Widow and Hawkeye.

      Danielle Cage does not exist in the MCU.

      He could take Hawkeye hand-to-hand. Black Widow would be more even, and something to see.

      Marvelus wrote: They haven't messed anything from me. That is just a big miscalculation between TV and films. The first one does not care about placing things anymore related to the movies, they just focus to do a great storyline, and Loeb mentioned some "time lords", I feel they are like talking to us.

      I've mentioned that "time lords" comment before and how he was absolutely referring to us, and I don't like it. He essentially said, "We'll leave it to you guys to do the work for us and make it fit."

      Marvelus wrote: No bro, there is no way. But is not the end of the world. I don't think we can force it to be pre-Snap, there is no way. If they had just stayed to the general feeling the Netflix show have (being months between each) we might have worked it out, but nope. They are saying it is a year after S2 (strongly 2017), 6 months away from Mother's Day, Halloween scenario, yeah, we are most likely post Snap. There is no other way.

      ProBot1227 wrote: Iron Fist killed a Dragon, Daredevil beats Black Window/Hawkeye, Luke Cage is freakin bullet proof, Jessica has super strength, and Frank Castle is... you know. That arguement never made sense to me, and in my opinion most tv characters are actually better characters than film characters.

      If we were to rank them in power, I'd think:

      [...]

      So they hold up pretty good. Anyway, back to mourning the timeline.

      Ha, good work there.

      Marvelus wrote: Agreed. If the Netflix heroes were put in the movies to have a collosal fight, I bet they would kick ass.

      They wouldn't be entirely out of their depth, at least. There's not much difference between Punisher and Winter Soldier in skill level, between Daredevil and Black Widow, between Iron Fist and Black Panther, between Luke Cage and Drax, between Jessica Jones and Okoye.

      ProBot1227 wrote: Maybe we should pretend Valentines day is earlier in the MCU and the season is in spring? A canonical mistake?

      Mothers' Day. And The Punisher: Season 2 actually confirmed it's the same when they showed it on the May 2018 calendar.

      Marvelus wrote: Yeah... I don't think that is how it works tho.

      It's just too much of an assumption.

      ProBot1227 wrote: Same, but I will do anything to get it before the Decimation. **ANYTHING**

      Marvelus wrote: The only thing you can do is to accept it and move on. And it is not called Decimation anymore, that books has been deemed non canon after Avengers: Endgame.

      Guh I really don't like that it's been prematurely deemed non-canon. Anyway, I'll be reading that book very soon and I'll let you know what works and what doesn't.

      I always hated the Decimation name though. It traditionally means specifically killing 10%. While the word has fallen into a more common usage to just mean some sort of destruction, the fact that the event is specifically about killing a certain percentage that is 50, not 10 really annoyed me.

      ProBot1227 wrote: Well, i guess that Guardians of the Galaxy prelude comic is non-canon too, then. Joking, but yeah, snap seems like such a strange term...

      Exactly. The comic was declared official canon. It had one iffy point and James Gunn jumped the gun in declaring it non-canon due to that, but actually on closer inspection (much like there's a good chance with this book) it isn't much of a problem.

      I'll give you that this book has never been explicitly called official canon, but the first book was stated to be canon and you don't have a series with one canon and one not, plus the first book has "Road to Avengers: Infinity War" and the way they've been promoted and put together is very official, with lots of discussion on blurbs and Marvel websites about "Read the new story that leads into the events of X" or "follows on from the events of Y".

      ProBot1227 wrote: Well, it's supposed to be before the snap in a year after May 2017 in spring, 6 months before Valentines day. Great timeline, folks! Giving Cloak & Dagger a run for it's money!

      Again Mothers' Day, so November.

      The difference is that Jessica Jones doesn't have internal inconsistencies to the level of Cloak & Dagger, it's an external problem that messes them up and isn't really their fault.

      Nox23 wrote: I've come to terms with these shows taking place between Infinity War and Endgame because I don't like aneurysms and I have my own mental workaround that works for me and me only. As for the Spring lines....uuuummmmm difficult but for now the only slight comfort is it takes episode 2 a while to catch up to whenever present day is. The scene that mentions Spring is the scene right before the attack on Brandt, right? Maybe I need to watch it again but it's possible she stalked him for months before making the move on him. Then again I can't really recall if they dropped any present day references before that scene; they may have. Gotta finish the season before I start rewatching

      I haven't come to terms with this one yet, I guess especially since I haven't hit those "year" lines.

      I'm currently watching Episode 2 and yeah, that "spring" line is pre-season. Episode 2 is set across the time between Season 2 and 3. Haven't finished the episode so don't know yet if there's a comfortable 6-month gap between then and the events of Season 3, but at least so far, yes, it's in that time between seasons so could easily be around May 2018.

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    • Halfway through episode 5 and it's both roughly a year since Season 2 and apparently spring time? I know that the spring statement was said in a flashback, but it seemed like a pretty recent one compared to where the season starts, like maybe a week or two beforehand.

      Also, I really like Erik. He's so charming.

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    • Yeah was about to say that now I'm getting to the end of the episode, there doesn't actually appear to be a 6ish-month jump possible, since Trish starts working on Brandt at the time of the "spring" scene and then she says she's been tracking him for "weeks" at the time of Season 3, Episode 1.

      Not sure what's happening here. You could make it work with the November placement in assuming that she's referring specifically just to when she started following him and that for some reason she waited months after finding out to start following him, but that's not the way we particularly want the wiggle room.

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    • I'm not going to make this who is better TV MCU vs Flim MCU heros a thing. But lets be honest if you think the TV MCU heros are as strong as the Movie MCU heros you are kidning yourself. And I'm not talking about the Black Widow and Hawkeye or any of the other weak ones. 

      Heres a question. 

      In Infnity War the fight on Titan aganist Thanos replace all the heros there with the Defenders (Daredevil/Cage/Iron Fist/Jones) + Punisher and Hellcat.  How good of a fight would they put up agansit Thanos?

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    • Of course they wouldn't succeed, but I just don't see why they need to personally.

      If it's a disappointment because you like that these specific characters are more powerful in the comics then I get it a bit more.

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    • Thats not a fair question. Put Black Widow, Drax, Winter Soldier, Black Panther with no suit, and Captain Marvel with only her glowing hand before the ending of Captain Marvel against Thanos. Thanos would stomp. If we put all tv characters in, Ghost Rider, Quake, Luke Cage, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, The Punisher, Cloak, Dagger, all the Runaways (especially Tina Minoru with the Staff of One), the Inhuman Royal Family, etc., clearly it would be a more fair matchup. Sure, some movie characters are more powerful than tv characters, but that doesn't make them weak.

      All I'm saying is that "These characters are weak because these are strong" is a poor argument. It's basically "Let's just discredit the weak and the medium powered characters so that the only characters left (the freaking 4 main avengers) are more powerful than these characters."

      "Captain America can't beat Galactus, therefore he is weak."

      You know what? Both Ghost Riders, Tina Minoru and maybe Quake (if she teamed up) would give Thanos a run for his money (assuming he doesn't have all the stones, otherwise a reckoning is coming... ha)

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    • Well Yes thanks BEJT I'm a huge comic fan. 

      Maybe its just perosnal bais and I love how powerful Captain Marvel and Thor are and I can't wait till we add more like Warlock. Also maybe its becuase they can fly which non of the neflex heros can so they have that major disadvantage. 

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    • That's an absolutely fine opinion. Flying is indeed cool. Regardless, if you want to enjoy Marvel Netflix, you should probably stop thinking about power level. They are pretty much in the middle, based on power, in my opinion. If you're going off Daredevil S1, he was alot less skilled than what he becomes later, as his character progresses. Luke Cage is invulnerable, so unless there's an alien metal or a drug enhancement, he's unstoppable.

      Yeah, not flying may be a disadvantage, but Daredevil has mastered the art of the hallway. In a hallway, he could beat Thanos. Some say even Jesus himself could not comprehend the power Matt held the moment he steps into a hallway.

      As the Collector said, magnificent. :)

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    • Yeah I think I just really like heros that can fly (Marvel heros, not DC) 

      But when Captain Marvel was flying around in space in the final battle I loved that so much. Also Falcon flying around any time is cool. Pretty much anybody who can fly is really cool to me. But don't get me wrong I still love all the Marvel heros but I just like the ones that can fly becuase it looks so cool on screen. 

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    • ProBot1227
      ProBot1227 removed this reply because:
      Double comment.
      23:35, June 14, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Damn that's unfortunate that she said "weeks". Maybe her co-host is just crazy and thinks it's November lol. Again I'm not fresh on the episode but did she say something like "kooky Spring weather" ? Could be that it's fall/late summer but the weather is weirdly spring-like for them. Who knows, maybe all the human ash in the air is changing the weather. Shrug shrug shrug

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    • Technically Jessica Jones can fly she's just not very good at it lol she doesn't train to improve her control over her abilities.


      Great work on the timeline guys, its a real shame AoS S6 & JJ S3 are gonna mess it up, best of luck with that. I've been following your timeline since early 2018 to watch the MCU chronologoically and im up to AoS S5E4 so far (still haven't watched Infinity War or Endgame yet lol)

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    • Jessica Jones: Season 3 (Edward Zachary Sunrose, me, Nox23, Griff1361)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Halfway through episode 5 and it's both roughly a year since Season 2 and apparently spring time? I know that the spring statement was said in a flashback, but it seemed like a pretty recent one compared to where the season starts, like maybe a week or two beforehand.

      Also, I really like Erik. He's so charming.

      BEJT wrote: Yeah was about to say that now I'm getting to the end of the episode, there doesn't actually appear to be a 6ish-month jump possible, since Trish starts working on Brandt at the time of the "spring" scene and then she says she's been tracking him for "weeks" at the time of Season 3, Episode 1.

      Not sure what's happening here. You could make it work with the November placement in assuming that she's referring specifically just to when she started following him and that for some reason she waited months after finding out to start following him, but that's not the way we particularly want the wiggle room.

      Nox23 wrote: Damn that's unfortunate that she said "weeks". Maybe her co-host is just crazy and thinks it's November lol. Again I'm not fresh on the episode but did she say something like "kooky Spring weather" ? Could be that it's fall/late summer but the weather is weirdly spring-like for them. Who knows, maybe all the human ash in the air is changing the weather. Shrug shrug shrug

      Both the co-host and Trish mention spring. The co-host says that and Trish says something like "especially since it's spring".

      It's not particularly unfortunate that she said weeks. If you're looking at it from the perspective of "The placement should be November 2018" then it's annoying, but it instead gives us evidence for the season being earlier in the year which isn't a bad thing.

      Except you can make the "weeks" line work I think with November 2018, if you assume a few months pass between that scene and the next scene of Trish starting to follow Brandt (including the Snap in that jump). Whereas you can't (I assume, having not yet seen the scene with the line) make the Mothers' Day line work with it being spring. So it would still lean towards November 2018.

      Either way, I think that the talk show scene is pre-Snap at least, since it's Spring 2018.

      Griff1361 wrote: Great work on the timeline guys, its a real shame AoS S6 & JJ S3 are gonna mess it up, best of luck with that. I've been following your timeline since early 2018 to watch the MCU chronologoically and im up to AoS S5E4 so far (still haven't watched Infinity War or Endgame yet lol)

      Thank you! Always really appreciate people letting us know that our work has helped.

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    • Am I the only one who wants to know why LoreMaster and ProBot have suddenly decided to derail this conversation with "Who's stronger among the TV or movie heroes?"

      This has nothing to do with the Timeline or general MCU news. Also, I'm on 3x06 of Jessica Jones, and Danny Rand is mentioned to be on a sabbatical from the company, setting it anywhere after the break between Seasons 1 and 2 (which we already assumed anyways). The way the reference was mentioned makes it seem like this is set during the gap between 2x10's final scenes.

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    • I love how this Season connects to the entire MCU as a whole (Snap aside) but this indicates that all of our Netflix heroes survived the Snap. Lets hope when they return they do NOT tease that they disappeared because I would be very mad... And I think it is definitely a reference to Danny Rand ending on Season 2.

      BEJT, yes, sorry I do not answer your replies or sometimes forget about your messages. I will try to answer sure, but f I can't I don't want you to thinl it is intentional.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose  yeah sorry about that I was just saying how I don't watch the Netflex shows  becuase the heros are not powerful and it went from there. 

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    • I am sorry that is your position. You will be delighted once you watch what the MCU has achieved in his street side. Which is for me the best thing in his Universe. And it connects more thrmstically with the movies.

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    • I'm glad you feel that way. But you wont see Spider-man in the TV shows so I feel like it makes the TV shows a bit more empty than the Movies. Wonder what you think about that. 

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    • Again, that does not relate to the timeline. Also, it's your opinion that the TV heroes are not as powerful as the movie heroes. It's objectively false, however. 

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    • Whatever we could argue till the end of time. Lets just get back on track of doing the inpossible of fitting something into a timeline that somehow dose not follow the rules of time. 

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    • There is nothing impossible. Just the way things have to work out.

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    • There is nothing impossible. Are you sure about that? 



      Oh whatever I'm not much help since I don't even watch the TV shows. Sorry. 

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    • Yes. I am sure

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    • If you say so then answer this question. 

      If the Universe was born with the Big Bang, what existed before?

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    • Well, now you're just being intentionally argumentative.

      Anyways, in 3x08 Jessica and Trish are walking around Manhattan, trying to find a woman before 7:00pm. It is already dark outside when they mention they're "running out of time". Assuming this is anywhere after 5:30pm, that would mean this takes place anywhere from late fall to early spring, which doesn't narrow it down at all but does support November 2018 (late fall), as it tends to be very dark by then.

      I'm still hoping against hope that this season could somehow take place in March/April of 2018, but I know that's a pointless hope at this point.

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    • Thanks for your notes man! Are you enjoying the season? It is really good, better than Season 2.

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    • I've read that Jessica Jones S3 is at least confirmed to take place after Iron Fist S2. Danny Rand is mentioned to be on his "sabbatical."

      I saw a football question earlier, assuming you're talking American football: fyi, NFL is September to February, Arena is April to August, and NCAA college is August to January. 'RPC vs. BU' doesn't ring a bell.

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    • You are right on that one. I am currently in E3 and yes... All pointd out to Spring 2018. But they could play a "Daredevil S2 card".

      Good intel about that

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    • Okay, so, in "The Other Thing," Sarge tells May he is 100 Earth years old.

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    • Marvelus wrote:
      Thanks for your notes man! Are you enjoying the season? It is really good, better than Season 2.

      Season 3 is definitely way better than the reviews made it out to be, and I would even argue that it's the best season so far.

      And Mrmichaelt, Danny's sabbatical could refer to when he left Rand after Season 1 (as explained in the beginning of Season 2, and hinted at in The Defenders), though I read it as the end of Season 2 as well.

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    • Finishing Derailed Conversation (Edward Zachary Sunrose, LoreMaster22, Marvelus)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Am I the only one who wants to know why LoreMaster and ProBot have suddenly decided to derail this conversation with "Who's stronger among the TV or movie heroes?"

      This has nothing to do with the Timeline or general MCU news.

      In my last proper reply I just moved on from the conversation and didn't respond. Occasionally things do get derailed and it's fine, but just if it's quick and then over. I'm not annoyed or anything but I was hoping a little that we could just leave it there.

      LoreMaster22 wrote: Edward Zachary Sunrose  yeah sorry about that I was just saying how I don't watch the Netflex shows  becuase the heros are not powerful and it went from there. 

      Marvelus wrote: I am sorry that is your position. You will be delighted once you watch what the MCU has achieved in his street side. Which is for me the best thing in his Universe. And it connects more thrmstically with the movies.

      LoreMaster22 wrote: I'm glad you feel that way. But you wont see Spider-man in the TV shows so I feel like it makes the TV shows a bit more empty than the Movies. Wonder what you think about that. 

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Again, that does not relate to the timeline. Also, it's your opinion that the TV heroes are not as powerful as the movie heroes. It's objectively false, however. 

      They're as powerful as the weaker movie heroes. Sure if you take an average power level, TV is lower, though I wouldn't say that's a bad thing. If it's to do with specifically being disappointed as a comics fan that certain characters are underpowered in the shows (I don't know if they are, I don't read the comics really) then that's a different point that's more understandable if you're a comics fan.

      LoreMaster22 wrote: Whatever we could argue till the end of time. Lets just get back on track of doing the inpossible of fitting something into a timeline that somehow dose not follow the rules of time. 

      Y