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  • Continuation from Part 10.

    For getting involved in helping us write up the TV episodes: Timeline Discussion - Spin-Off Thread: Working on Write-Ups.

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    • Assassin1and2 wrote: I mean it's not like the dates in the MCU line up with our calendar. Take December 16, 1991 for example in the MCU that was a Thursday but in our calendar it was a Monday.

      Is this a response to the Runaways problem? Because that's not what the issue is here, the issue I go into is that either Episode 4 is set 13 days before Episode 10 or it's set 8 days before. It's not about the dates, it's just about the fact that Episode 10 is set on a Wednesday (whatever the date) and Episode 4 appears to be 8 days prior, but is seemingly set on a Thursday, so either we accept that it's a Thursday and slip in an extra 5 days, which is just about possible, or we reinterpret Gert and Chase's conversation and assume it's actually a Tuesday in Episode 4, so only 8 days before Episode 10. The question is what you guys think is more plausible. It's not about the days of the week matching the dates, it's about how many days pass between Episode 4 and 10, whatever their date placement is.


      But also, just so you know, actually, the days of the week in the MCU do match the days of the week in the real world where possible. There's been discussion about this before - yes, there's incidents like that December 1991 one being wrong. There's quite a few incidents where the day of the week, usually on a newspaper, is wrong. But there's no consistency to "Oh, well Sundays in our world are actually Mondays in the MCU" or whatever, there's evidence suggesting their days are 3 earlier than ours, 2 earlier than ours, 1 earlier than ours, the same, 1 later than ours, 2 later than ours, and 3 later than ours (maybe not literally every example but I just mean that there's no consistency to the offset). However, while there's a bit of evidence for -3, -2, -1, +1, +2, and +3, there's a good chunk of evidence for 0. I go into it a bit here and I know there's more examples that I'm just not thinking of right now.

      Basically, the evidence is about 50:50 if you're just looking at it in terms of "they do match" and "they don't match", but the 50% of evidence for "they don't match" is split between 6 different options for what the difference is, so really it's like "there's 8% evidence for -3, 8% evidence for -2, 8% evidence for -1, 50% evidence for the same, 8% evidence for +1, 8% evidence for +2, 8% evidence for +3", if that makes sense. So there's sufficient evidence to suggest that the days of the week are the same.

      (Again, I'm not saying the percentages are accurate and that it's all exact numbers, I'm just giving an explanation about why there's sufficient evidence with rough numbers.)

      Also, now that this thread is created, Assassin1and2, please could you edit your last message on Part 10 to add a bit at the end saying, "Thread continued in Part 11, here." This allows people on the thread to follow it into its next part.

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    • BEJT Wrote:

      2018 (CirUmeUela)

      CirUmeUela wrote: Also sorry if this has been answered already, but is most of 2018 now set in stone, except for some Netflix stuff and Runaways? Well so far there's only two Netflix scenes set in 2018, the two A Duel of Iron epilogue scenes, which are "months" after October 27, 2017 but before the end of Avengers: Infinity War, so around ([December 1, 2017]*1+[December 27, 2017]*2+[January 1, 2018]*4)/(1+2+4) = December 26.14286, 2017 and ([March 29, 2018]*4+[March 29, 2018]*2+[December 31, 2018]*1)/(4+2+1+)= May 7.57143, 2018, ([December 26.14286, 2017]+[May 7.57143, 2018])/2 = March 2, 2018.

      Runaways is pretty set, just with a range of only one week that is yet to be decided (see above).

      It's the March 2018 Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Ant-Man and the Wasp, and Avengers: Infinity War stuff that isn't set in stone. They're set in terms of how they relate to each other, but the March 2018 placement isn't set.

      Ok sounds good. And what still needs to be placed on the timeline pages? Is all the flashback and other info from Ant Man and the Wasp on the timeline pages yet? What shows still need flashback etc. other info placed on the timeline pages? I wish I knew how to help out more with this stuff. I should learn how to contribute to wiki pages. I'm slowly building up a detailed list of deleted scenes from the Blu Rays and when I have them all, I would like to update the deleted scenes page and clarify where each one comes from or if the "deleted" scenes were even ever released or filmed at all. I think there are a few listed on there that mention things that got cut from the script before filming even began, which isn't really the same as a deleted scene, at least one we can see.

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    • CirUmeUela wrote:

      BEJT Wrote:

      2018 (CirUmeUela)

      CirUmeUela wrote: Also sorry if this has been answered already, but is most of 2018 now set in stone, except for some Netflix stuff and Runaways? Well so far there's only two Netflix scenes set in 2018, the two A Duel of Iron epilogue scenes, which are "months" after October 27, 2017 but before the end of Avengers: Infinity War, so around ([December 1, 2017]*1+[December 27, 2017]*2+[January 1, 2018]*4)/(1+2+4) = December 26.14286, 2017 and ([March 29, 2018]*4+[March 29, 2018]*2+[December 31, 2018]*1)/(4+2+1+)= May 7.57143, 2018, ([December 26.14286, 2017]+[May 7.57143, 2018])/2 = March 2, 2018.

      Runaways is pretty set, just with a range of only one week that is yet to be decided (see above).

      It's the March 2018 Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Ant-Man and the Wasp, and Avengers: Infinity War stuff that isn't set in stone. They're set in terms of how they relate to each other, but the March 2018 placement isn't set.

      Ok sounds good. And what still needs to be placed on the timeline pages? Is all the flashback and other info from Ant Man and the Wasp on the timeline pages yet? What shows still need flashback etc. other info placed on the timeline pages? I wish I knew how to help out more with this stuff. I should learn how to contribute to wiki pages. I'm slowly building up a detailed list of deleted scenes from the Blu Rays and when I have them all, I would like to update the deleted scenes page and clarify where each one comes from or if the "deleted" scenes were even ever released or filmed at all. I think there are a few listed on there that mention things that got cut from the script before filming even began, which isn't really the same as a deleted scene, at least one we can see.

      Ooh, I know this is slightly off-topic, but I would love to see the Deleted Scenes page get an overhaul like the one you just suggested. And I believe the Phase 1 and 2 bonus discs that come with exclusive deleted scenes were mass-produced for the re-release of the sets recently.

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    • The Spider Man trailer, from yesterday, is portrayed in a way that's like normal continuation. If it is FEAST that's being hinted, July makes sense as a few months post Infinity War. March/April may end up being correct 

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    • I am starting to think that Avengers: Infinity War takes place on very Late June. Why? We know that Spider-Man: Far From Home picks up a few minutes after Avengers: Endgame, however even tho tis might not be that exactly, I completely doubt that there will be a time jump of months between some events, so yes, Avengers: Infinity War may likely going to be set around Late June or so. I am putting my bet on it.

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    • Thanks for the breakdown about the stance on Peter's age at the end of Part 10, BETJ.

      I agree with Marvelus, lol, I remembered that bit about FFH being a few minutes later and logged on... nope, someone else remembered before me. heh. So I guess you don't think they will be "moping" for 2 months?

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    • When are the events of the new Punisher season happening?

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    • I don't know. I haven't seen it and I will not see it until the next 3-4 weeks.

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    • CirUmeUela's Offer to Help (CirUmeUela)

      CirUmeUela wrote: Ok sounds good. And what still needs to be placed on the timeline pages? Is all the flashback and other info from Ant Man and the Wasp on the timeline pages yet? What shows still need flashback etc. other info placed on the timeline pages? I wish I knew how to help out more with this stuff. I should learn how to contribute to wiki pages.

      The Ant-Man and the Wasp stuff is not on there yet, I'm sorry. I'm doing my best and it's on my list to be done soon, but it'll be 1987 and 1996 I think.

      I'll see what I can do soon to let you know how you might be able to help - that would be much appreciated! Thank you for your offer.

      I will also get to sending you some comic stuff as you asked, I haven't forgotten. I've just had exams and some things I needed to prioritise on the wiki.


      Deleted Scenes (CirUmeUela, Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      CirUmeUela wrote: I'm slowly building up a detailed list of deleted scenes from the Blu Rays and when I have them all, I would like to update the deleted scenes page and clarify where each one comes from or if the "deleted" scenes were even ever released or filmed at all. I think there are a few listed on there that mention things that got cut from the script before filming even began, which isn't really the same as a deleted scene, at least one we can see.

      That would be great. If you're allowed (maybe use the talk page first?) to edit the List of Deleted Scenes page, I think it would be great to have the page better-structured and clearer, and more comprehensive. It would become a much better source of information in terms of covering the source of the scene, the nature of the scene, etc., and I, at least, definitely think it's a good idea.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Ooh, I know this is slightly off-topic, but I would love to see the Deleted Scenes page get an overhaul like the one you just suggested. And I believe the Phase 1 and 2 bonus discs that come with exclusive deleted scenes were mass-produced for the re-release of the sets recently.

      And so does Edward Zachary Sunrose, apparently. Yeah, I agree, I think it would be great to overhaul that page, if it's allowed.


      Spider-Man: Far from Home (Deadpooled123, Marvelus, Mrmichaelt)

      Deadpooled123 wrote: The Spider Man trailer, from yesterday, is portrayed in a way that's like normal continuation. If it is FEAST that's being hinted, July makes sense as a few months post Infinity War. March/April may end up being correct 

      I hadn't heard anything about F.E.A.S.T. - I'd never even heard of the organisation until you just mentioned it and I looked it up - but I'm assuming that this means you're theorising that the charity work being done in the trailer is to do with the aftermath of the events of Infinity War/Endgame? I'm not so sure about that, if there's a worldwide impact it wouldn't really be local charities helping victims of a specific thing.

      But there is the fact that Avengers Tower has work being done on it when there's none in Avengers: Infinity War, so that would suggest a little bit of time.

      However, I don't think it's worth speculating about this sort of thing. We just don't know when or how Endgame will end, as well as if there will be a time jump early in Far from Home and which order the scenes take place in and, if there is a time jump, whether some scenes are before or after. All these factors together, I just don't think it's worth making many assumptions.

      Marvelus wrote: I am starting to think that Avengers: Infinity War takes place on very Late June. Why? We know that Spider-Man: Far From Home picks up a few minutes after Avengers: Endgame, however even tho tis might not be that exactly, I completely doubt that there will be a time jump of months between some events, so yes, Avengers: Infinity War may likely going to be set around Late June or so. I am putting my bet on it.

      I said that a while ago, sorry if I wasn't clear back then but I'm glad you understand the point I was trying to make now. That was one of the things I brought up when Ant-Man and the Wasp came out - that while late June would be really pushing it in terms of it still being during term time, if it is right at the end of term, that could actually work with Far from Home because Far from Home is set during the summer vacation and supposedly picks up right after Endgame. So it was one of the points for why it might in the end have to be late June - or that, at the very least, the consideration of how Far from Home might factor in was one of the reasons that I feel we don't have all the evidence yet.

      But as I've just said to Deadpooled123, I don't think it's worth spending much time speculating about this yet. Again, we don't know how or when Endgame ends, we don't know how Far from Home starts other than the very beginning being minutes after Endgame, we don't know if there will be any sort of jump like in Homecoming after the beginning, and we don't know what order in which scenes will take place and when they take place in relation to each other. So many unknown factors.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Thanks for the breakdown about the stance on Peter's age at the end of Part 10, BETJ.

      I agree with Marvelus, lol, I remembered that bit about FFH being a few minutes later and logged on... nope, someone else remembered before me. heh. So I guess you don't think they will be "moping" for 2 months?

      No worries, was just trying to clarify what the point was that I was making.

      I thought we'd mentioned Pascal's comment about "minutes" after Endgame a lot in the last 18 months, but maybe that was only on the discussions pages when explaining to people things like why Far from Home is not a prequel (seriously, why are so many people insisting it is? Even when presented with the evidence).

      I just don't know in terms of moping and a few months' jump or whatever - again, I just don't think we can know because we don't know how Endgame ends. We don't know if there will be any need to mope or how severe the circumstances will be and what the real tone of at least the beginning of the film will be (because they could have omitted all of the beginning from the trailer and just be showing scenes after a few months' jump when people are feeling a bit better or whatever, or even could have just been very careful with their editing to make it seem more upbeat than it really is). If it is really tragic, I can see them maybe not necessarily doing a "3 months later" (which would feel a bit cheap to just jump away from all the sadness) but perhaps just like a few weeks passing between some scenes early on to then get to a point where things just aren't quite so horrible and upsetting and Peter's going "I need a break, I'm not going to bring my suit so I can just enjoy my trip".

      But yeah, we just don't know.

      Also, I'm surprised no one has replied about my mention of the "24 JUL 19" stamp on the poster, which I thought was quite a significant annoyance.


      The Punisher: Season 2 (Ад12032016, Marvelus)

      Ад12032016 wrote: When are the events of the new Punisher season happening?

      Dude, it's been out for mere hours, give us some time😂. I haven't had the chance to start it yet as I'll mention in a moment, but that teaser suggested it'll be around early March 2018.

      Marvelus wrote: I don't know. I haven't seen it and I will not see it until the next 3-4 weeks.

      Yeah, so, I was going to mention this anyway, but it might take me about a week to get through The Punisher: Season 2. Four times in a row now, Netflix have released the seasons at really inconvenient times for me (Luke Cage: Season 2 was during the most important exams so far in my life and also during the World Cup, Iron Fist: Season 2 was just as I went on holiday, Daredevil: Season 3 was while I was still in my first weeks at university, settling in, and The Punisher: Season 2 is during some more exams). Most of my exams are done now, but I still have one to go on Tuesday, and as well as this, I'm catching up on some other shows that I had to hold off watching during the heavier part of this exam period. Plus I'm still finishing writing up The Punisher: Season 1 and it will be a bit weird starting the season while still finishing writing the last season. So basically, I think I'll only get the first few episodes done in the next couple of days while I revise, catch up on other stuff, and finish writing up Season 1. Then Monday and a good chunk of Tuesday I'll just have to be focusing on that exam purely, but as of Tuesday/Wednesday, I can get going with the season a bit faster - and then yeah, because of all that, will probably not finish until around Friday-ish. So jusy letting you all know that. Sorry, not much that can be done about it.

      But I will make at least a bit of a start in the coming days, and I will start my notes as usual.

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    • About that 24 JULY 19 is annoying as f****, I am really tired that they don't focus on the timeline to make it more timeless. Civil War CANNOT be on 2017

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    • In the fourth episode of Punisher there is a hockey game on TV, MSC (Dynamo Moscow) vs KHF (Lokomotiv Yaroslavl). If anyone is a hockey fan maybe this could help with the timeline. Or maybe it's just a random game they put on. It's Kontinental Hockey League, 3rd (quarter? I don't know hockey sorry), 12th minute, score is 2:1. I don't know why the names don't line up with abbreviations but logos match up.

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    • Or maybe its other way around I just assumed Dynamo Moscow is MSC because MSC=MoSCow

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    • That game was played on November 22nd 2018. Link

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    • However, the play you have seen may line up to the 2017-18 season, which ended around April 22nd 2018, which fits prefectly with a weather setting and the promo we got prior to the season release. [Link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_KHL_season]

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    • No worries BEJT, I'm sure you're very busy with university stuff. And yeah, I will have to figure out how I can contribute.

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    • Spider-Man: Far from Home (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: About that 24 JULY 19 is annoying as f****, I am really tired that they don't focus on the timeline to make it more timeless. Civil War CANNOT be on 2017

      Yuuuuuup. I just can't believe we're going through this again.

      I don't think the date is a continuation of the whole "Civil War is 2017" thing though, I think that Civil War being 2016 and Infinity War 2018 is settled at Marvel. I just don't think they're thinking through that that also means Homecoming is 2016 and Far from Home is 2018, they just keep going, "It's set in present day, so I guess that makes it [whatever the date is]", and in this case, they've gone, "Well it's present day, comes out July 2019, set July, must be 2019, right?" They're just not thinking.

      I wonder how much input Marvel in particular have on something like this. It's a) marketing, so done by Sony, not Marvel, and b) a poster presumably made by some sort of graphics designer team, so maybe it was just some graphics designers who don't know about these sorts of things (even if it was signed off by Sony - but again, Sony, not Marvel). So I think we don't have to take this as too hard a piece of evidence? Nonetheless, it's really really annoying.


      The Punisher: Season 2 (Assassin1and2, Marvelus)

      Assassin1and2 wrote: In the fourth episode of Punisher there is a hockey game on TV, MSC (Dynamo Moscow) vs KHF (Lokomotiv Yaroslavl). If anyone is a hockey fan maybe this could help with the timeline. Or maybe it's just a random game they put on. It's Kontinental Hockey League, 3rd (quarter? I don't know hockey sorry), 12th minute, score is 2:1. I don't know why the names don't line up with abbreviations but logos match up.

      Assassin1and2 wrote: Or maybe its other way around I just assumed Dynamo Moscow is MSC because MSC=MoSCow

      Marvelus wrote: That game was played on November 22nd 2018. Link

      Marvelus wrote: However, the play you have seen may line up to the 2017-18 season, which ended around April 22nd 2018, which fits prefectly with a weather setting and the promo we got prior to the season release. [Link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_KHL_season]

      Thanks guys, I'll look out for that when I get there. I'm near the end of Episode 1 now. Not much to comment on other than a "9 18" registration sticker on Frank's van meaning it's pre-September 2018. Also there's a hint towards the fact that Frank has been given that pardon because they suggest that he's properly living under a new official government identity as Pete now, not just hiding, so if that's the case, then yeah, this is after March 1, 2018 going by the promo. There's also a moment where Beth asks how long it's been since Frank's family were killed but I thought it was quite funny that he's just really deep in response instead of giving a straight answer, saying like, "Sometimes it feels like yesterday, sometimes it feels like a million years ago." Just say "3 years", man😂.

      I realised I forgot to mention to you guys that I had a bit of a mini scoop on this season, and now it's too late to prove that it was an exclusive because it's been publicly revealed😂. I knew that Jim O'Hanlon, director of Virtue of the Vicious, was also doing Episodes 1 and 2 of this season (I'm still on Episode 1, won't watch 2 until tomorrow, and haven't looked it up to check he's also doing Episode 2 so actually, I haven't seen this all confirmed for me yet. I could look it up to check it was true, but at least for now there's still a tiny bit of "scoop"-ness risk left in it, while it hasn't all yet been confirmed for me at least😂), and at least according to the person who told me, Episodes 1 and 2 are quite linked, almost like a two-parter. Pretty irrelevant, I mean, it's not like it's an exciting detail or anything😂 but yeah I know someone who knows Jim O'Hanlon well.

      Will start doing my notes after this message.


      CirUmeUela's Offer to Help (CirUmeUela)

      CirUmeUela wrote: No worries BEJT, I'm sure you're very busy with university stuff. And yeah, I will have to figure out how I can contribute.

      It's alright I'll let you know what you can do if you're up for it, just can't do it right now.

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    • Marvel's The Punisher: Season 2 notes.

      Day (Notes about relation to other days)

      • Episode and rough timings.
        • Evidence pertaining to the season's placement.
        • Evidence about the day-to-day breakdown.
          • Evidence pertaining to other placements.
            • Small things like times and things revealed to exist in the MCU like a celebrity or a film.

      If there's a potential break in time (even if unlikely) I'll note it, just in case it's necessary later on. I'll delete it though if, then, it's later said that something happened earlier that day or last night or whatever. In the brackets with question marks notates when it seems to be taking place, assuming no later information.

      How the Potential Gaps Work

      • Continuation of a scene - 100% eliminates a gap.
      • Implied to the point where it would be ridiculous to not have a gap - 100% eliminates the gap.
      • 2 people's normal clothing being the same as before - 100% eliminates the gap.
      • 3 people's very basic clothing being the same as before - 100% eliminates the gap.
      • 1 person's very unique clothing being the same as before - 100% eliminates a gap.
      • Very much implied - 75% eliminates the gap.
      • 2 people's very basic clothing being the same as before - 75% eliminates the gap.
      • 1 person's normal clothing being the same as before - 75% eliminates the gap.
      • Reasonably firmly implied - 50% eliminates the gap.
      • 1 person's very basic clothing being the same as before - 50% eliminates the gap.
      • Somewhat implied - 25% eliminates the gap.

      Notes

      [Episode 1 - Road House Blues]

      • Frank drives Amy in a van but they are stopped by a car in front. Franks shoots the people in the car down.
        • Frank's van has a registration sticker but I can't make it out. Waiting for HD screencap, at about 00:48 of about (53:08 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 49:58, so should look about 1.6% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • Flashback: Frank watches Shooter Jennings in Lola's Roadhouse. He meets Beth, the bartender. A girl comes to the bar and asks for alcohol, and the owner allows Beth to sell it to her.
            • Shooter Jennings exists in the MCU. Born Waylon Albright Jennings on May 19, 1979.
            • The Outsider by Shooter Jennings exists in the MCU. Released on The Other Life on March 12, 2013.
        • Flashback: A guy harasses Beth and Frank stops him.
            • Outlaw You by Shooter Jennings exists in the MCU. Released August 15, 2011.
        • Flashback: The girl goes to the phone in the bar and calls a man called Konchevsky, who has been kidnapped by John Pilgrim. She tells him that every one of the people she was with has died and she wants out, but Konchevsky says he wants the photographs. She agrees to meet tomorrow at Lola's Roadhouse, but once the phone call ends, Pilgrim kills him.
          • Konchevsky expected Fiona yesterday.
        • The girl will return "tomorrow night", which could become relevant.
        • Flashback: Beth flirts with Frank.
        • Flashback: Beth invites Frank back to her home.
        • Flashback: 02:21 - The girl leaves Lola's Roadhouse and goes to the nearby motel. She picks the lock to have a place to sleep.
            • Alarm clock says 2:21.
        • Flashback: Beth and Frank talk about each other's lives, and she mentions her son, Rex.
          • Rex is 8.
        • Flashback: Beth and Frank have sex.
        • Flashback: Beth and Frank talk and he tells her his real name and about his family's deaths.
        • Flashback: In the morning, Frank goes to leave and meets Rex, who was dropped off early. He arranges with Beth to take them to a place called Donatello's to get pancakes.
            • The National Hockey League exists in the MCU. Founded November 26, 1917.
            • The Detroit Red Wings exist in the MCU. Founded 1926.
            • The New York Rangers exist in the MCU. Founded 1926.
            • It is said to be before 10:00.
            • Froot Loops exist in the MCU. Introduced in 1963.
        • Flashback: Beth, Frank, and Rex get pancakes together.
        • Beth just works there on weekends, which could mean Friday night/Saturday night or Saturday night/Sunday night, which makes this Saturday/Sunday or Sunday/Monday.
          • Rex is nearly 9.
        • Flashback: 08:05 - The girl wakes up in the motel.
            • Alarm clock says it's 8:05.
        • Flashback: Frank and Beth say goodbye, but she invites him back to Lola's Roadhouse that evening.
        • Beth invites him back "tonight", which could become relevant. It also means that this is the second day of her weekend shifts, but again, not sure if that would be Friday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday.
        • Flashback: 08:08 - The girl escapes the motel room as a woman who works at the motel tries to enter, walking away as she is shouted at. Frank enters his room a few doors down and bumps into the girl again.
            • Alarm clock says it's 8:08.
        • Frank's van has a "9 18" sticker, meaning it is no later than September 2018.
        • Flashback: Shooter Jennings performs again at Lola's Roadhouse.
            • Wild & Lonesome by Shooter Jennings feat. Patty Griffin exists in the MCU. Released on The Other Life on March 12, 2013. Patty Griffin exists in the MCU. Born March 16, 1964.
        • Flashback: Frank is driving away but changes his mind and turns back around.
        • Flashback: Frank talks to Beth again.
            • The Other Life by Shooter Jennings exists in the MCU. Released on The Other Life on March 12, 2013.
            • Frank got 2 hours down the road before turning back.
        • Flashback: Suspicious people arrive in the bar. The girl tries to escape through the toilet window but gets caught.
            • The Real Me by Shooter Jennings exists in the MCU. Released on Family Man on March 13, 2012.
        • Flashback: Frank arrives at the toilet and starts fighting, taking down everyone in there to protect the girl.
        • Leaflets on the wall but can't make out any dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (37:12 - 1:00) = 36:12 of about (53:08 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 49:58, so should look about 72.4% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • Flashback: Frank and the girl talk in the toilet. She claims to not know who the people are or why they are here for her, but eventually begs for his help with the remaining people outside.
        • Flashback: Frank gets in a fight with the remaining people in the bar. He kills all the attackers, though the owner gets killed and Beth gets shot in the shoulder.
        • Flashback: Frank picks up Beth to get her to hospital. He drive her along with the girl and they are stopped by a car on the way with more people after the girl, but Frank shoots them down.
        • Frank's van has a registration sticker but I can't make it out. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (45:00 - 1:00) = 44:00 of about (53:08 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 49:58, so should look about 88.1% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Frank gets Beth to the hospital.
      • John Pilgrim arrives at the roadhouse and looks at the mess from the fight.
      • Pilgrim watches back the security footage of the mysterious man killing all the people working for him.
            • The footage shows the fight was at 23:47.

      - - - -MTP 2,1 a- - - -

      • Madani goes to see Billy Russo as he sleeps in his hospital bed.
      • Frank drives the girl, and says that he hopes more people come so he can take them out as well.
        • Follow-up on Frank and the girl driving, which eliminates MTP 2,1 a.

      [Episode 2 - Fight or Flight]
      Next day.

      • Frank continues driving. He starts to fall asleep at the wheel but refuses to let the girl drive.
        • The girl is worried they will freeze to death if they crash, which could be indicative of the time of year, but they're up north in the Michigan/Ohio area so it's probably cold a lot of the year.
        • Restless by Ryan Innes plays on the radio, which was released April 13, 2018, suggesting this is after then.
            • Restless by Ryan Innes exists in the MCU. If this is after April 13, 2018 then its release can be added to the timeline - released on The Inbetween on April 13, 2018. Ryan Innes exists in the MCU, born 1979-1980.
      • Soon after dawn - Frank and the girl get to a motel in Ohio, and the girl has to buy them a room. The woman at the desk is difficult but they get the room eventually.
            • Better Business Bureau exist in the MCU. Founded 1912.
            • Discover Card exist in the MCU. Founded 1985.
            • Mastercard exist in the MCU. Founded 1966 as Interbank Card Association.
            • Visa Inc. exist in the MCU. Founded 1958.
        • Frank's van now has a "10" sticker, but the year is obscured. Might see it later.
            • It's early morning, not long after dawn.
      • The two of them get to the room. Frank introduces himself as Pete and the girl introduces herself as Rachel.
      • "Rachel" helps Frank get a bullet out of his side. She asks to leave.
      • 06:22 - "Rachel" tries to escape. Frank uses cable ties to tie her to the bed and keep her from running.
            • Alarm clock says 6:22.

      - - - -MTP 2,2 a- - - -

      • Morning - Billy has nightmares. Madani visits him again, but Krista arrives and asks her to leave. Billy talks about building "the jigsaw".
            • It's "morning".
        • Krista says, "I've been working with Mr. Russo for months," so it's at least "months" since Season 1.
          • Krista says, "I've been working with Mr. Russo for months."

      - - - -MTP 2,2 b- - - -

      • Pilgrim visits Beth in hospital and pressures her for a name. She manages to only tell him Pete Castiglione.
      • 12:21 - Frank confronts "Rachel" about lying. He finds undeveloped pictures in he rpocket and asks what's going on. "Rachel" accuses him of having looked for a fight.
            • Alarm clock says 12:21.
        • The fight in the Roadhouse was "last night", which eliminates MTP 2,2 a and b.
      • 12:26 - Despite claiming she can be trusted, Frank leaves "Rachel" tied up again.
            • Alarm clock says 12:26.
      • Krista works with Billy.
        • Follow-up on earlier scene, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,2 b.

      - - - -MTP 2,2 c- - - -

      • Pilgrim has someone working for him look at Frank's hostel room near Lola's Roadhouse. The man gets a name: Pete Castiglione. Pilgrim expresses distaste at the man's love of technology and profanity.
      • Frank buys the room again from the woman at the desk, who charges him double occupancy.
        • Follow-up on them being at the hostel, which eliminates MTP 2,2 c.
      • Frank bashes in the wall of the room.

      - - - -MTP 2,2 d- - - -

      • Dinah has dinner with Rafi, who disapproves of her visiting Billy.
      • Marlena arrives at the hostel.
        • Follow-up on them being at the hostel, which eliminates MTP 2,2 d.
      • Shootout at the hostel.
        • Car has a registration sticker. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (41:23 - 1:00) = 40:23 of about (54:54 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 51:44, so should look about 78.1% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • The girl tries to take the van and drive away but the police arrive and apprehend them.
      • At the station, the police have someone operate on Marlena's leg.
      • The police question "Rachel", and she claims to be a victim.
          • "Rachel" claims she is 16, but is fairly obviously lying.
      • Frank refuses help for his injured hand.
      • Marlena, "Rachel", and Frank have DNA swabs and fingerprint scans.
      • The man working for Pilgrim lets him know about the three of them having their prints put into the system.
      • Frank calls Madani. The sheriff refuses to let them go.
      • The medic leaves, and John Pilgrim sits in a car watching her go.

      [Episode 3 - Trouble the Water]

        • Flashback: John Pilgrim chops trees.
        • Flashback: John Pilgrim attends a church service.
          • Mass at church, so should be a Sunday.
            • Wade in the Water by John Wesley Work Jr. and Frederick J. Work exists in the MCU. Published in New Jubilee Songs as Sung by the Fisk Jubilee Singers by John Wesley Work Jr. and Frederick J. Work in 1901. John Wesley Work Jr. exists in the MCU. Born August 6, 1871. Frederick J. Work exists in the MCU. Born August 6, 1871.
        • Flashback: Morning - Pilgrim talks about Rebecca with Anderson Schulz.
            • Said to be "morning".
        • Flashback: Pilgrim gets dressed and tells his wife he is leaving for a couple of days.
            • Can't make out the board games. Waiting for HD screencap, at about 04:13 of about (51:13 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 48:03, so should look about 8.8% through the gallery when it comes out.
          • Pilgrim says he will "only be gone a couple of days". It's unclear if this is a flashback to a while ago or just a day or two ago. If it's recent, since this is Sunday and Beth works on weekends, this would mean it is either the day after both Lola's Roadhouse nights (if they were Friday and Saturday) or the morning between (if they were Saturday and Sunday). The morning between would make more sense because it would seem that he is in some other place when he kills Konchevsky, but then travels to Michigan after finding out from the phone call where "Rachel" is going to be, so he would indeed be leaving the following morning for a couple of days. So it would line up, assuming Beth's shifts are Saturday and Sunday nights, but Schultz seems to be sending Pilgrim on some mission to test his faith rather than Pilgrim voluntarily going, so maybe this is more like a week ago as he is sent after "Rachel"'s group and Konchevsky.
      • The medic leaves, and John Pilgrim sits in a car watching her go.

      Next day.

      • Marlena threatens Frank as they wait in their cells.
      • "Rachel" bothers one of the police officers until he gives her money. The sheriff confronts her about her lies, but she explains that Marlena is trying to kill her and "Pete" saved her, yet did also tie her up.
        • The average age of "Rachel"'s aliases is 18. She still claims to be 16, but is lying and it sounds like she is about 18.
            • Pollyanna by Eleanor H. Porter exists in the MCU. Published 1913. Eleanor H. Porter exists in the MCU. Born December 19, 1868.
      • An officer goes to Frank and Marlena, saying Marlena's record is bad but that "Pete"'s record is remarkably clean, and that he suspects he is a marine.
      • During a session with Dr. Dumont, Billy breaks out of the hospital.
      • Pilgrim and a man he is working with get to the station to take "Rachel", but the sheriff refuses. Pilgrim leaves but sends a signal and the station is blacked out.
        • It's still a while until Thursday (i.e. it's not Wednesday or Thursday currently). That works since we're 3 and 2 days on from Beth's shifts at Lola's Roadhouse, which are either Friday and Saturday or Saturday and Sunday, making this Monday or Tuesday.
      • Frank warns them the police that they're going to be in trouble.
      • 21:30 - Dinah goes to talk to Krista, but Mahoney arrives and sends her away.
            • Clock says 9:30, would be PM.
        • Dinah talks about "all the months" she visited Billy. Unclear if she started visiting as soon as she could (which could be before he woke up or some time after) or as soon as he woke up, so may or may not be indicative of time since Season 1. But at the very least it means it's at least "months" since Season 1.
          • If it's only referring to the time since Billy woke up or the time since she started visiting, then it's just evidence for placing whichever of those.
        • Krista says, "I've been treating him for months," so it's at least "months" since Season 1.
          • Krista says, "I've been treating him for months."
      • 21:33 - Dinah leaves and makes a call.
            • Clock says 9:33, would be PM.
            • Dinah has calls all day up to "9:11pm", which matches with it being 21:33.
      • Amy gets a coke out of the vending machine. Frank tells them not to go outside and engage whoever is out there, but they go ahead nonetheless.
        • The fight at the Roadhouse was "2 days ago", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,1 a and MTP 2,2 a, b, c, and d.
            • The Dodge Charger exists in the MCU. Introduced as a show car in 1964. Dodge exists in the MCU. Founded as Dodge Brothers Company in 1900.
      • The officer gets into the car but is shot. They get him safely inside and Pilgrim walks up to the sheriff, telling him the officer has just hours to live.
      • The officers put on bulletproof vests. Frank begs them to let him loose to help.
      • Marlena talks about the attack that will be coming. The shot officer's brother in another cell tells Marlena he shouldn't even be there as his own brother just locked him up for being drunk in public.
      • The shootout begins at the station. Frank manages to get loose and kill Pilgrim's people.
      • Frank has the chance to run but chooses not to, convincing the sheriff he is trustworthy. The officer's brother is freed from his cell.
      • Marlena goes to talk with Pilgrim, but he kills her.
      • Frank encourages the officers to let him take out the remaining people, and they eventually agree.
      • Frank goes outside, shooting the men's Molotov cocktails in their own hands and hunting everyone down.
      • Inside the station, the police are pleased with Frank's success.
            • I saw an article saying the Western film the officer refers to isn't one specific film.
      • Homeland arrive in a helicopter and stop Pilgrim, though he gets away.
      • Madani touches down to pick up Frank.
        • Frank says it's been a rough couple days - again, it's been 2 days since the fight at Lola's Roadhouse, so that works fine. This reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,1 a and MTP 2,2 a, b, c, and d.
      • The sheriff thanks Frank for his work.
      • Frank and "Rachel" tell Madani they want to be taken back to New York.

      [Episode 4 - Scar Tissue]
      - - - -MTP 2,4 a- - - -
      At least next day.

      • Billy is taunted on the bus.
            • Edward Scissorhands exists in the MCU. Released December 14, 1990.
      • Billy follows the guy off the bus and attacks him, taking his clothes.

      - - - -MTP 2,4 b- - - -

      • Rafi and Dinah talk. She claims she dropped Frank off outside New York.
            • FedEx exists in the MCU (has been revealed before). Founded as Federal Express Corporation in 1971.
        • Flashback: Dinah drops off Frank and "Rachel" at her apartment before she leaves.
        • Implied that her going out was for this meeting with Rafi, meaning that scene was just a little earlier, and that scene is clearly the day after they got back, so that would make this the day after they got back. MTP 2,4 a and b 50% eliminated.
        • Trees are bare, suggesting no later than March/early April.
      • "Rachel" says the room is too tidy. Frank puts on the TV and sees a report on Billy's escape on the news.
        • The fact that they've only just got back (plus the fact that the news talks about Billy's escape as if it were last night) means it's only the next day. This eliminates MTP 2,4 a and b.
            • Uber exists in the MCU. Founded March 2009 as UberCab.
            • Billy was last scene at 7PM, which is implied to be right after his escape, meaning his escape was likely just before 7PM.
      • "Rachel" cries under the bed.
      • Frank watches a hockey game.
        • The game is Lokomotiv Yaroslavl vs. Dynamo Moskva, and it's 2-1 12 minutes into the 3rd period. The only recent games between the two where L.Y. were home and D.M. away and L.Y. ≤ 2, D.M. ≤ 1 going into the 3rd period were one on January 7, 2018 and one on October 3, 2015. The one on January 7th though was 1-1 at the end of the 3rd period, so it can't be that either. The October 3, 2015 game was 2-1 going into the 3rd period and finished 3-1, but that 3rd L.Y. goal was in the 60th minute, which means that 12 minute into the 3rd period, it was indeed 2-1. So I guess it's just that October 3, 2015 game for some reason.
      • Billy sits in the bar watching the same game, when the news comes on saying to look out for him.
        • It is said that Billy escaped "last night", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,4 a and b.
        • Flashback: Krista works with Billy, who wears a blank mask. She tells him to decorate it.
          • This is "6 months" into his recovery, so since he woke up.
      • Madani gets back and admits that she needs Frank to deal with Billy. She tells him about Billy's remarkable recovery and shows hi Billy's diary, claiming Billy is lying about his memory loss.
        • Billy was in a coma for "6 weeks" so he woke around January 27, 2017. This means the scene with Krista was late July 2017, so she started working with him no later than July 2017, and she's been working with him for "months" so it's now no later than "months" after July 2017.
          • Billy was in a coma for "6 weeks" so he woke around January 27, 2017.
          • Billy waking around January 27, 2017 means that scene with Krista is around late July 2017.
      • Frank locks "Rachel" in her room so she can't escape in the night, then heads out. She falls asleep but has a nightmare about her friends' murder.
        • Depiction of past event: All of "Rachel"'s friends were killed after she went out for food.
          • Happened recently.

      - - - -MTP 2,4 c- - - -

      • Frank visits Curtis to talk about Billy. Curtis says that he thinks Billy isn't lying about his memory loss, and suggests that Billy might be going to settle a score somewhere.
        • Strongly implied to be where Frank was going when he left, which would eliminate MTP 2,4 c. 75% eliminated.
        • Flashback: Billy and Frank watch a children's baseball game. Billy talks about the paedophile from is youth who assaulted him while playing stickball.
            • Joe DiMaggio exists in the MCU. Born November 25, 1914.

      - - - -MTP 2,4 d- - - -

      • Billy goes to the spot where he and Frank watched the game.

      Next day.

      • "Rachel" wakes and finds the door locked. She panics and Frank unlocks it for her, but she gets angry at him for locking it.
        • Follow-up on her being locked in last night, which eliminates MTP 2,4 c and d.

      - - - -MTP 2,4 e- - - -

      • Billy goes to the paeodphile from his youth, Arthur's house.
        • At least by the time he goes to the baseball court he has remembered Arthur, so this should be the next morning, which would eliminate MTP 2,4 e. 50% eliminated.
      • "Rachel" tells Frank about her friends' deaths. She thinks she doesn't understand what it's like to lose everyone and is being apathetic.
        • Follow-up on Frank and "Rachel" at Madani's apartment, which eliminates MTP 2,4 e.
      • 08:30 - Billy talks to Arthur about the home being demolished. Arthur says it's a shame Billy isn't as pretty as he used to be.
            • Clock says it's 8:30, would be AM.
      • Morning - Frank tells Madani about Arthur Walsh. Mahoney visits and he and "Rachel" have to hide. Mahoney asks if Madani stole Billy's journal, explaining a story of how he once became too obsessed with a girlfriend. He notices there being two bowls, but assumed Madani just has a boyfriend and leaves. Frank goes to shower.
          • Arthur is "about 60 years old".
            • It's "morning".
          • At some point in Mahoney's past he had a girlfriend called Aviva and a "couple years" after they broke up, he saw her again at the coffee shop he took her to and ended up falling drunk on her doorstep.
      • Arthur complains about going to prison and about Billy not being willing to "love" him back. He starts taunting Billy about his face, angering Billy.
          • Arthur spent 10 years in Sing Sing Correctional Facility.
            • Sing Sing Correctional Facility exists in the MCU. Opened 1826.
            • Can't make out the time on the clock. Waiting for HD screencap, at about 42:02 of about (58:02 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 54:52, so should look about 76.6% through the gallery when it comes out..

      - - - -MTP 2,4 f- - - -

      • Pretending to be looking to buy a laptop, "Rachel" uses the chance to look up Pete and finds out he is Frank Castle, the Punisher, and that his family were killed.
          • There was a New York Bulletin article about the destruction of the Blacksmith's ship called "Armed Vigilante 'Punisher' Presumed Dead in Explosion".
      • Madani gets to Arthur's house but only finds his dead body. Mahoney surprises her and she shoots him, luckily only getting him in his bulletproof vest.
        • Follow-up on Frank telling Madani about Walsh, which eliminates MTP 2,4 f.
      • "Rachel" gets back and tells Frank she knows who he is and what he did. She tells him her real name is Amy.
      • Billy gets to Krista's door, covered in blood and asking for help. He tells her he followed her home. She lets him in to clean up.
        • Flashback: Billy has an appointment with Krista, and has designed the mask. He says he wants to be the best version of himself again.
      • Billy walks in on Krista as she is considering calling the police. He asks that she doesn't and just helps him.

      [Episode 5 - One-Eyed Jacks]

      • Frank and Amy play one-eyed jacks. She explains that to win, he needs to not play.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 a- - - -

      • Frank goes to see Turk.
        • "7 19" registration sticker.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 b- - - -

      • Dinah has a nightmare of Billy arriving in her apartment.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 c- - - -
      At least next day.

      • Krista wakes Billy and gets him to calm down.
        • Strongly implied to be the day after Billy got back, which would eliminate MTP 2,5 a, b, and c. 75% eliminated.
      • Morning - Madani gets back and tells Frank Russo killed Arthur.
            • "Morning."
        • Frank refers to staying up late playing one-eyed jacks last night, which eliminates MTP 2,5 a, b, and c.
        • Madani is telling Frank about Arthur's death, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,5 a, b, and c.
        • Madani gives Frank 24 hours to leave the town, which could become relevant.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 d- - - -

      • Pilgrim whips himself.
      • Anderson sends Pilgrim to New York.
      • Amy uses Madani's makeup. Frank waits for Turk. Amy wears Madani's clothes. Frank waits outside the gym. Amy uses Madani's card to buy food and clothes. (Avengers Tower is missing from the skyline again, but as we know, that's not a timeline thing it's just a mistake.)
        • Still at Madani's apartment which they have to leave by next morning, so still the same day, which eliminates MTP 2,5 d.
        • "3 19" registration sticker.
        • Don't think the receipts have dates but should check just in case. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (20:44 - 1:00) = 19:44 of about (51:21 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 48:11, so should look about 41.0% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Turk goes in asking for Konchevsky but Kazan's men grab him.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 e- - - -

      • Billy says he envies Krista remembering the things she struggles with.
      • Frank gets back and finds that Amy has bought pizza. Turk calls him but he knows he's lying.
        • Follow-up on Frank and Amy and still the same day because at Madani's apartment, which eliminates MTP 2,5 e.
        • Arranging to meet at 5 o'clock, which could become relevant.
      • Pilgrim tells Rebecca he has to go again. She says she wants him to be the last thing she sees.
        • Follow-up on Pilgrim having to leave, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,5 e.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 f- - - -

      • Billy overhears one of Krista's meetings, with a man called Jake.
        • Krista is in the same clothes as earlier, which would eliminate MTP 2,5 f. 75% eliminated.
        • Jake is attending a meeting immediately after this, which could become relevant.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 g- - - -

      • Madani goes to see Curtis. He asks her to stay for his meeting.
        • Madani is in the same top as earlier, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,5 d and e and would eliminate MTP 2,5 f and g. MTP 2,5 50% further eliminated, MTP 2,5 g 50% eliminated.
      • Curtis holds a meeting. Jake is reluctant to accept Madani, but she tells him what she has been through.
        • Follow-up on Jake, which eliminates MTP 2,5 g.
      • Madani talks to Curtis after the meeting about Billy.
      • Frank takes the tape off his hand but finds it swollen.
        • Still at the apartment, which eliminated MTP 2,5 f and reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,5 d, e, and g.
      • Frank gets to the gym.
        • Follow-up on the 5PM arranged meeting, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,5 f and g.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 h- - - -

      • Billy goes to a bar following Jake. They start drinking together.
        • Jake is in the same clothes, but it's possible he wears them often. Still, this would eliminate MTP 2,5 h. 25% eliminated.
      • 17:00 - Men wait at Turk's shop for Frank. Frank enters the gym and Kazan has a man try to kill him, but Frank wins.
        • Follow-up on Frank, which eliminates MTP 2,5 h.
      • Jake and Billy get to know each other.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 i- - - -

      • Krista struggles with vertigo at her window.
      • Frank gets back to Madani's apartment and tells Amy that he got the name Nikolai Poloznev.
        • Follow-up on Frank, which eliminates MTP 2,5 i.
            • LinkedIn exists in the MCU (has been revealed before). Founded December 28, 2002.
        • The Wikipedia page has some dates but I don't see anything after 2016. Still worth checking and reading properly what it all says. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (47:01 - 1:00) = 46:01 of about (51:21 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 48:11, so should look about 95.5% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Frank and Amy leave Madani's apartment.
      • Madani gets back and finds them gone.

      - - - -MTP 2,5 j- - - -

      • Pilgrim kills Kazan and the rest at the gym.
        • Strongly implied to be the same day that Kazan failed to have Frank killed, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,5 i and would eliminate MTP 2,5 j. 75% eliminated.

      [Episode 6 - Nakazat]
      - - - -MTP 2,6 a- - - -
      At least next day.

      • Frank and Amy go to a creep who sorts paeodphilic photos. Amy gets them let in.
            • The Wizard of Oz exists in the MCU (has been revealed before). Released August 25, 1939.
      • Amy develops the photos and Frank beats the man.
      • Amy convinces Frank to let the man go, but they burn the place down before they leave.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 b- - - -
      At least next day.

      • 05:00 - Delia and Curtis wake. Curtis leaves.
            • Samsung exists in the MCU.
            • Alarm says 05:00.
        • Curtis has the room for a week, which could become relevant.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 c- - - -

      • Curtis gives out food and gives Jimbo glasses.
        • Strongly implied to be where Curtis was going when he left Delia, which would eliminate MTP 2,6 c. 75% eliminated.
        • Leaflets might have dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (07:42 - 1:00) = 06:42 of about (56:48 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 53:38, so should look about 12.5% through the gallery when it comes out.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 d- - - -

      • Billy watches Krista get dressed.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 e- - - -

      • Amy calls a man called Deb and gets him to tell her Mr. Poloznev's breakfast time.
      • Morning - Amy and Frank watch Poloznev go in for breakfast.
            • "Morning", before school.
      • Amy and Frank wait outside the college and discuss Lisa.
          • Lisa would have been 15 next month.
      • Billy and Krista discuss him talking to Jake. She asks that he make sure he doesn't get caught if he goes out again.
        • Billy watching Krista get dressed was "earlier", which eliminates MTP 2,6 e.
        • Billy getting drinks with Jake was "last night", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,5 i and MTP 2,6 e and eliminates MTP 2,5 j and MTP 2,6 a, b, c, and d. Despite the fact that Curtis and Delia's alarm said 05:00 and was after a daytime scene, we have to assume their clock is misprogrammed and it's actually later than 5AM when they wake up.
            • No longer can be 5AM when Curtis wakes up.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 f- - - -

      • Frank teaches Amy how to get hold of a gun, teaches her to pull the trigger on anyone trying to shoot her.
            • Schweppes exists in the MCU. Introduced 1783.
            • Pringles exists in the MCU. Introduced 1967.
            • Wise Foods exists in the MCU. Founded 1921.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 g- - - -

      • Billy works out then finds his own file in Krista's drawers.
        • Billy's file might have a date. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (21:23 - 1:00) = 20:23 of about (56:48 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 53:38, so should look about 38.0% through the gallery when it comes out.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 h- - - -

      • Billy finds Curtis and asks who scarred him, but Curtis claims not to know.
        • Curtis' T-shirt is the same as earlier, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,6 d and e and would eliminate MTP 2,6 f, g, and h. 50% eliminated.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 i- - - -

      • John Pilgrim sits in a diner in New York.
        • Flashback: John reads a Bible from Rebecca earlier. He looks at Madani and Castle's files.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 j- - - -

      • Mahoney confronts Madani about the fact that he has worked out Frank Castle was at the carousel.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 k- - - -

      • Frank pretends to be homeless, getting to Poloznev's car, then knocks out the driver.
      • Amy confronts Poloznev with the photo from the funeral. He gets in his car, but as his chauffeur goes to get in, Frank knocks him out. Amy changes into a school skirt to avoid Poloznev's men. Poloznev finds Frank in the driver seat.
      • John Pilgrim follows Madani from the diner. She notices him and pulls a gun on him. He remains calm as she takes his photo but realises she cannot arrest him. She runs back to the diner to get DNA.
        • Follow-up on Pilgrim in the diner (plus Madani is in the same clothes as earlier), which eliminates MTP 2,6 j and k.
      • Frank takes Poloznev to the waterfront. Poloznev explains about David Schultz and blackmailing the Schultzes. Frank prepares to kill him, but lets him go because of his daughter.
          • When Poloznev was "maybe 12 years old", he saw a man get taken to the woods on a snowy day to be killed and vowed to never be killed like that.
          • Poloznev's daughter Natalia is almost 17.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 l- - - -

      • Billy meets with a group of veterans in the bar, Jake and his friends.
      • 21:14 - Madani goes to forensics to get the DNA from the diner analysed.
            • Clock says 9:15 in one shot, then 9:13 in the next, then 9:15 in the next. Overall, around 9:14, would be PM.
        • Follow-up on Pilgrim following Madani (plus Madani is in the same clothes as earlier), which eliminates MTP 2,6 l.
      • Jimbo gets his car towed. He tells the other veterans and Billy leads the group in stopping and attacking the driver. He encourages Jimbo to drive to Texas.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 m- - - -

      • Frank upsets Amy. She gets up to leave and he takes it back.
        • They're having a conversation about Poloznev, which would imply this is still the same day, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,6 l and would eliminate MTP 2,6 m. 25% eliminated.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 n- - - -

      • Jimbo sits in a police station, having got caught. He tells Curtis what happened, including about Billy.
        • More leaflets which could have dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (46:52 - 1:00) = 45:52 of about (56:48 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 53:38, so should look about 85.5% through the gallery when it comes out.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 o- - - -

      • John Pilgrim kills Poloznev and his men.

      - - - -MTP 2,6 p- - - -

      • 20:50 - Mahoney subpoenas Krista for her records on Billy.
        • Mahoney is in the same clothes as earlier, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,6 k and l and would eliminate MTP 2,6 m, n, o, and p. MTP 2,6 m 75% further eliminated, MTP 2,6 n, o, and p 75% further eliminated.
        • Subpoena could have dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (48:36 - 1:00) = 47:36 of about (56:48 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 53:38, so should look about 88.8% through the gallery when it comes out.
            • The clock appears to say about 8:50 but the time on it doesn't really exist. If this is the same day as earlier though, then it can't be 20:50 because it was 21:14 before.
          • The note Billy read before was from a Wednesday meeting.
            • "Goodnight", which matches it being about 20:50.
      • Billy angrily asks Krista if he's just another expendable patient of hers. He attacks her, but she stabs him in the hand with a letter opener. However, they end up kissing.
      • 23:10 - Curtis brings Frank and Dinah to see him and says he knows what Billy is doing. Frank says he will end it his way.
            • Curtis' watch appears to show the time as 11:10, would be PM.
        • Mahoney visiting Madani and Pilgrim following Madani were both "today", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,6 k and l and eliminates MTP 2,6 m, n, o, and p.
        • Billy attacked Curtis "yesterday", which means that MTP 2,6 i becomes defined as 1 day.
            • This means that the Krista scene can no longer by 20:50.
        • Frank says that in the last few days he has let men live that he should've killed.

      [Episode 7 - One Bad Day]

        • Flashback: 11:23 - Monroe interviews Madani after her head injury.
        • "One year ago". This would suggest it is only a year since Season 1 in present day, but this can work fine with it being Spring 2018, if this is early January 2017, a couple of weeks after the end of Season 1.
          • The flashback is "one year ago".
            • Interview suspended at 11:23.
        • Frank's liberty is in danger if Madani tells the truth, which does imply this is after Season 1 and not in those 3 days between the carousel and the ending. So that works as early January.
        • Flashback: While it hurts to say it, Madani admits about her time with Russo and covers up the rest.
        • Flashback: Marion tells Madani that she has to learn to deal with lying.
      • 22:45 - Frank thinks Madani wants him to convince her it's OK to kill Billy, buts he insists she doesn't. Curtis says he knows someone who will know where Billy is.
            • Curtis' watch says 10:45, would be PM. It's clearer and works better than 23:15, so overrules it.

      - - - -MTP 2,7 a- - - -
      At least next day.

      • 06:30 - Madani wakes. She has disturbing recollections of Billy.
            • Alarm says 6:30.

      - - - -MTP 2,7 b- - - -

      • Krista and Billy have sex. Billy asks her about her back scar, and she says she had a fall when she was young.
          • Krista had a fall aged 9, and it took 2 years of surgery to get her back to normal.

      - - - -MTP 2,7 c- - - -

      • Krista puts in her earrings.
        • Krista's emotions pretty strongly imply to be immediately after the previous scene, which would eliminate MTP 2,7 c. 50% eliminated.

      - - --MTP 2,7 d- - - -

      • Billy explains he's feeling better but is upset about what he has thrown away. He says he wants to head out to spend time with his guys, which is also helping him, but Krista asks him not to. However, he has taken her gun which she goes to threaten him with, and he leaves nonetheless. She gets vertigo looking out at him from the window.
        • Editing fairly strongly implies it is immediately after Krista puts on her earrings, starting her day, which would eliminate MTP 2,7 d. 50% eliminated.
        • Billy says he "slept great last night", strongly implying this is the first morning after they got together, which would eliminate MTP 2,7 a, b, c, and d. MTP 2,7 a and b 75% eliminated, MTP 2,7 c and d 75% further eliminated.

      - - - -MTP 2,7 e- - - -

      • The analysis woman reports back to Madani that they can find no one matching the man's DNA. She talks too much, acting a bit weird.
        • Files could have dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (18:37 - 1:00) = 17:37 of about (51:49 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 48:39, so should look about 36.2% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • Madani's encounter with Pilgrim was "that morning", implying not just yesterday but multiple days ago.
            • Madani's encounter with Pilgrim was "morning".
          • The woman is 30.

      - - - -MTP 2,7 f- - - -

      • Frank and Curtis go to Jake's apartment, but he's not there. They find that he takes drugs.
        • No reason Curtis and Frank would wait to follow up on Jake, which would eliminate MTP 2,7 a, b, c, d, e, and f. MTP 2,7 a, b, c, and d 50% further eliminated, MTP 2,7 e and f 50% eliminated.

      - - - -MTP 2,7 g- - - -

      • Billy and his group practice for the bank robbery they will be performing. They then decide to get some sleep.
        • Implied to be where Jake is, since he's not in his apartment, which would eliminate MTP 2,7 g. 25% eliminated.
        • Billy is in the same clothes as earlier, but could have just not gone back to Krista's. Still, this would eliminate MTP 2,7 e, f, and g. MTP 2,7 e, f, and g 50% further eliminated.
        • The robbery will be "9AM tomorrow", and again, "tomorrow".

      - - - -MTP 2,7 h- - - -

      • Curtis and Frank sit in a car, waiting. Frank tells Curtis about Beth.
            • Volkswagen exist in the MCU. Founded May 28, 1937.
        • Strongly implied to be the same day as them breaking into Jake's apartment, which would eliminate MTP 2,7 g and h. MTP 2,7 g 75% further eliminated, MTP 2,7 h 75% eliminated.
      • Jake sneaks out in the night.
        • Follow-up on Billy's group sleeping, which eliminates MTP 2,7 h.

      - - - -MTP 2,7 i- - - -
      At least next day.

      • Morning - Madani meets with Marion James for advice.
            • It's "morning".
        • Madani says that their "s**t", the problem of Billy and Frank, is still around, and, "It's been a year, and I'm still trying." It's unclear which moment exactly she's referring to, it's one of: since her actions got Sam Stein killed, since she found out Billy was playing her, since they took down Billy, since Marion spoke to her in the "one year ago" flashback from this episode, since Billy woke up. I think she's probably referring to the flashback from this episode, because that was when Marion told her to try to learn to be OK with lying and moving on, and she's saying it's been a year and is still trying. In that case, this is the same as the prologue in that it suggests this is about a year after Season 1, but works reasonably with this being Spring 2018 because it can be very early 2017.
          • Whatever she is referring to, if it is not an otherwise defined event, should be about a year ago.
      • Billy and Frank kidnap Jake.
        • Follow-up on Jake sneaking out, which eliminates MTP 2,7 i.
      • Frank interrogates Jake, but gets violent, stabbing him in the hand.
      • Madani tells Frank to calm down. Curtis helps Jake and tells him why he needs to give up Billy.
          • Frank, Billy, and Curtis have been friends since "about the time [Jake was] sprouting [his] first chin hairs". This would be when Jake was about 17-20/15-16, so overall about 17.5. However, I can find that Jordan Dean's birthday is June 26 (1, 2, 3), but can't yet find his age, so can't really estimate when this would have been.
      • Frank returns and Jake gives them the information.
        • "They're hitting the ReadyQuick check-cashing spot, this morning," meaning that it must be about to happen in the coming hours, and earlier it was "tomorrow". This reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,7 h and i.
            • "They're hitting the ReadyQuick check-cashing spot, this morning," meaning that it must be about to happen in the coming hours, so this is before 9AM.
        • "Right after the truck makes the Friday drop, we're gonna rob the place." This is in the coming hours, meaning it is currently Friday.
        • They were staying in the warehouse "last night", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,7 h and i.
      • Once Frank has the information he needs, he heads out with Billy. Madani wants him to stop, but he ignores her.
        • "1 19" registration sticker, works fine.
      • Frank and Billy go to catch Billy and his crew, but just miss them as they drive to the bank.
        • Registration sticker, can't make it out. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (40:47 - 1:00) = 39:47 of about (51:49 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 48:39, so should look about 81.8% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • 09:00 - Billy and his crew break into the bank and threaten the woman at the counter, Lillian. She is stubborn, refusing to open the doors to the safes for him even when he threatens her with a grenade. However, another employee eventually opens the door in fear.
        • The Friday drop arrive as mentioned, so this is Friday.
            • This was planned for 9AM, so should be about 9AM. Clock matches the previous dialogue as 9AM (well done Marvel).
        • This was said earlier to be "tomorrow", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,7 h and i.
          • Lillian's father fought in a world war. Lillian looks to be in her late 50s to early 70s, so born c. May 1953. c. 1977 (which is close enough, only approximating to work out which world war), the average age when men became fathers was 27.4. In 1960 (close enough), there were approximately [https://www.statista.com/statistics/718084/average-number-of-own-children-per-family/ 2.33 children per family, so it can be approximated that Lillian was one of about 2 or 3 (let's act like those are the only options and therefore say there's a 0.67 chance of 2 and 0.33 chance of 3). The average time between sibling births is roughly 30 months, so (ignoring twins/triplets etc. which there's a negligible chance of for this approximation) if she was the first of 2 then she was born first child + 0 months (because she is the first child), if she was the second of 2 then she was born first child + about 30 months, so if one of 2, born at an estimate first child + 15 months. If first of 3 then first child + 0 months, if second of 3 then first child + 30 months, if third of 3 then first child + 60 months, overall if one of 3 then born at an estimate first child + 30 months. So, born at an estimate ([FC + 15 months] × 0.67 + [FC + 30 months] × 0.33) ÷ (0.67 + 0.33) = (0.67FC + 10.05 months + 0.33FC + 9.9 months) ÷ 1 = FC + 19.95 months approximately. So, first child of her father can be approximated as c. September 1951. Finally, that would mean her father was born around April 1924ish (give or take several years obviously). While there's a lot of approximating here, this gives us a good enough idea to work out that her father would have fought in World War II, not World War I (would have to have been born by November 1900 for World War I whereas by May 1927 for World War II, so it's fairly clear). So, Lillian's father fought in World War II.
        • Calendar shows a month with Mondays on 7th/14th/21st/28th, which only occurred in the time since October 2017 (Marvel's Daredevil: Season 3) in May 2018 and January 2019. It is a 31-day month, but that doesn't narrow it down as both are 31 days. However, there is a public holiday marked on the 13th and the 28th, which matches with May 2018 - Mothers' Day and Memorial Day. May 2018 makes more sense anyway, due to time of filming and just over a year since Season 1. So, this calendar would place it in May 2018. It's shown fairly closely. That would mean this is Friday 4th, 11th, 18th, or 25th.
        • Boxes and files behind the employees say "2018", as in the current files they are using are "2018", clearly affirming the current year.
      • Frank heads out of the car, putting on Jake's mask.
      • Frank approaches Billy, who thinks it's Jake. He then takes off the mask, shouting at Billy, and Billy begins to panic, seeing Frank again and the vest with the skull he's had nightmares of. Billy's men begin shooting at Frank, who kills some of them, but Billy is stunned. His men get him into a car to drive him away, and Frank takes a car to follow.
        • "1 19" registration, again works fine.
            • BMW exist in the MCU. Founded March 7, 1916.

      [Episode 8 - My Brother's Keeper]

      • Billy is tormented. One of his men continues to shoot at Frank, but he gets away. Billy has Jose stop the car so he can go after Frank. Curtis takes out Billy's sniper. Frank gets to Billy and gets out of the car, and when Billy asks if he was the one to scar him, Frank readily admits it. Billy angrily fires at him, but Frank hides. Curtis tries to get a shot on Billy but can't take it. The police arrive, including Mahoney, and Frank has to run away. Mahoney goes after him. Billy's men arrive and start shooting, allowing Billy the cover to get into the car, and they drive away. Frank continues to run.
        • There's a banner up for some event "APRIL 18-20", but it could have just been left up a bit after the event, that sort of thing happens often. In fact, there are set photos of this sequence being filmed from late May, so assuming that shot wasn't filmed like 6 weeks prior for some reason, yeah, there's real life precedent for the banner being left up because this exact one was, it was still up 6 weeks later when they filmed it.
        • I think the car Frank is in has a "9 19" registration, which works fine.
        • I think the car next to Billy has a "19" registration but can't make out the month. Waiting for HD screencap, at about 02:57 of about (48:53 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 45:43, so should look about 6.5% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Mahoney catches Frank but Curtis helps him get away.
      • Billy's crew get back to the warehouse, where Bobby complains that they nearly got busted because of him. Anton Reed, the guy who gave in at the bank, is in fact an inside man, and says they should just split the money, but Billy shoots him and Bobby for having a problem with him.
        • Car has a "4 19" registration, which works fine.
      • Curtis worries about having shot at an officer, thinking that they will identify him easily. Frank jokes with him and says that he should have stayed in the car, but Curtis says he had to stop the man about to snipe Frank. Frank explains that he thinks Billy genuinely doesn't know what he did, so when he had the available shot, he ended up freezing.
      • Billy goes back to Krista, upset about having found out his friend Frank was the one who scarred him.

      - - - -MTP 2,8 a- - - -

      • Amy is bored in the caravan.
        • Implied to be what she's doing while Frank and Curtis are out, which would eliminate MTP 2,8 a. 25% eliminated.
            • The Fatal Shore: The Epic of Australia's Founding by Robert Hughes exists in the MCU. Published January 2, 1986. Robert Hughes exists in the MCU. Born July 28, 1938.
      • Delia texts Curtis, annoyed at his lies and him not meeting with her as arranged.
        • Follow-up on Curtis, which eliminates MTP 2,8 a.
            • Volkswagen exist in the MCU (has been revealed before). Founded May 28, 1937.
      • Mahoney inspects Anton Reed's dead body. Frank watches on from above.
        • Date on Reed's ID, presumably expiry date, is "11/2018". That works fine assuming it is the expiry date, which is the most likely scenario.
      • Frank tells Curtis about Reed being shot. Curtis explains that he had a shot and if he'd taken it, Reed might be alive. He says he's upset that he's been dragged back in to fighting and killing, and that Delia thinks badly of him.
      • Amy decides to surprise Frank and practice the gun move, but it goes down very badly, with him getting angry at her for nearly getting herself killed by him.
        • Curtis' car has a "3 19" sticker.
            • Pringles exists in the MCU (has been revealed before). Introduced 1967.
        • Reed died "today", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,8 a.

      - - - -MTP 2,8 b- - - -

      • Mahoney goes back to Madani, asking how she knew about the robbery. He asks her where Castle and his friend are, and she says she doesn't know, but Mahoney demands that she use her contact with him to find out, and then give him up.
        • Mahoney has the same clothes as earlier, which would eliminate MTP 2,8 b. 50% eliminated.
        • Mahoney talks about whether Madani has seen the news, plus presumably Mahoney would want to speak to her A.S.A.P., strongly implying this is right after the robbery, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,8 a and would eliminate MTP 2,8 b. MTP 2,8 b 75% further eliminated.
      • Billy sits with Krista, talking about why he's upset about Frank. Krista tells him he is wrong to think that he was better off not knowing, as now he can face his pain.
        • Follow-up on Billy and Krista, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,8 a and eliminates MTP 2,8 b.
        • Krista says that having found out the truth about Frank will make today the best day of his life, meaning it's the same day as earlier, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,8 a and b.

      - - - -MTP 2,8 c- - - -

      • Frank is brutal with Jake as he questions him on where Billy is and Curtis has to intervene to tell him to stop. He worries that he is being like Billy.
        • Frank is still letting out his anger, implying this is the same day as earlier, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,8 b and would eliminate MTP 2,8 c. MTP 2,8 c 50% eliminated.
      • Frank goes for a walk in the storm.
        • Empire State Building is lit up yellow.
      • 22:55 - Billy gets angry with Krista, saying she knew about Frank. She calms him down, assuring him she loves him. Same storm, so no gap.
        • Billy is in the same clothes as earlier, which would eliminate MTP 2,8 c. MTP 2,8 c 50% further eliminated.
            • Clock seems to say 10:55, would be PM.

      - - - -MTP 2,8 d- - - -

      • Amy cooks. Curtis goes to the caravan site and Amy shoots as Frank told her to, almost getting him. He tells her he doesn't know where Frank is. She lets him in and offers food.
        • Amy is in the same clothes as earlier, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,8 b and would eliminate MTP 2,8 c. MTP 2,8 c 50% further eliminated.
        • Strongly implied that Curtis is coming from Frank leaving him and Jake, which would eliminate MTP 2,8 d. MTP 2,8 d 75% eliminated.
            • Don't know the song playing in Amy's earphones.
      • Billy meets with the group and tells them they deserve to go for more.
        • The robbery was "today", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,8 a and b and eliminates MTP 2,8 c and d.
      • Curtis and Amy eat spaghetti. Someone arrives at the door and they are worried, but it's Madani. They let her in and she explains that she met the man after Amy, but couldn't arrest him. She says that she tracked Curtis because he left his phone on, and Amy burns his SIM. They sit to drink.
        • Curtis says he hasn't eaten all day and that it's been a long day, referring to all the events of this episode and the end of Episode 7, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,8 a, b, c, and d.
      • Frank visits his family's graves, while Madani, Curtis, and Amy drink together and Madani explains about having to give Frank up, not sure if she will or not.
        • Curtis says, "Yesterday I was the guy selling insurance," referring to him and Frank starting going after Jake yesterday which was followed by the chain of events that he's only now getting a break from. This reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,7 g, h, and i and MTP 2,8 a, b, c, and d.

      [Episode 9 - Flustercluck]
      Next day.

      • Frank goes back to the caravan. He tells the group he wants them to let him be what he's meant to be.
            • Volkswagen exist in the MCU (has been revealed before). Founded May 28, 1937.
        • Amy says last night was "Friday night", which matches with Billy's crew discussing the robbery being Friday.
        • Amy saying last night was "Friday night" when the robbery was "Friday" morning reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,8 a, b, c, and d.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 a- - - -

      • Billy's crew shoot people and raid places for hundreds of thousands of dollars of contraband.
        • Flashback: Billy and Krista have sex again and discuss future plans.
        • Three raids in the last 24 hours. At the very earliest, they performed their first raid late at night after Billy told them they should try for more, so to be talking about the last 24 hours, this should really be at least 18 or so hours later, so at the very least this is late afternoon the day after the robbery, should really be at least the day after that though.
        • One of the men is planning something for 2 months' time, it's not really clear.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 b- - - -

      • Moke is too handsy with one of the women during a party at "Valhalla".
        • Strongly implied to be soon after the scene just before, which would eliminate MTP 2,9 b. 75% eliminated.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 c- - - -

      • Anderson Schultz has Pilgrim meet with him while he is golfing. He tells him to reach out to his old contacts and put a bounty on Castle and Amy.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 d- - - -

      • Amy and Curtis work out roughly where Billy's base is. Having tapped into his radio system, they inform Frank about a guy waiting to attack.
        • Implied to be not long after the beginning of the episode, which would eliminate MTP 2,9 a, b, c, and d. 25% eliminated.
      • Frank attacks the guy, Moke, and ends up killing him. He unlocks his phone and finds a photo of a woman with a T-shirt from the bar she works at.
        • Phone calendar says "13", possibly "Wednesday 13". "Wednesday 13" would make it June 13th but the beginning of the episode was seemingly at the latest Saturday May 26th, and it's highly unlikely that a few weeks have passed since the beginning of the episode. But "13" could work really nicely, as the beginning of the episode was the day after a Friday in May, if the calendar is to be believed, so it could be Saturday May 12th, and then with the news about Billy's crew suggesting it's probably been another day, it does seem like this would be the Sunday, which would nicely match as the 13th. While it would probably have to be ignored anyway, it would still be good to know for sure what day of the week it says. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (13:11 - 1:00) = 12:11 of about (57:52 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 54:42, so should look about 22.3% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • David Schultz meets with his father for golfing. His father still expresses disapproval in his son's homosexuality.
        • Follow-up on Anderson golfing, which eliminates MTP 2,9 d.
        • Anderson wants David to come home for a "couple of weeks", which could become relevant.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 e- - - -

      • Pilgrim goes to a man called Danny to put out the word that there's a prize on Frank and Amy, wanted alive. Danny calls his father to report having seen Pilgrim after all these years.
        • Pilgrim would presumably follow up quickly, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,9 d and would eliminate MTP 2,9 e. 50% eliminated.
      • 13:38 - Amy and Curtis talk. Amy says she always wanted to do marine salvage. Curtis wishes Frank would let them know what's happening, and Amy says Frank is selfish. Curtis decides that this is true and it is more important that he make sure he meets with his group, and leaves Amy. She decides to run away on her own.
        • Follow-up on Amy and Curtis, which eliminates MTP 2,9 e.
          • Curtis would be getting too old to serve, which is vaguely relevant to his age.
            • Wise Foods exists in the MCU (has been revealed before). Founded 1921.
        • Curtis' watch says it's 1:38(PM). Looking at what this means for how many days it now has to have been since the day of the robbery (end of Episode 7 and all of Episode 8), there's three factors: 1 - When did Billy and his crew perform their first attack?; 2 - How long after the first robbery is that news report about the last 24 hours?; 3 - Is Curtis' watch to be taken as the true time (i.e. do we ignore the watch?)? It's likely that Billy's crew did not perform their first attack until at least the next day. It's likely that the report is coming almost 24 hours after that first attack. And ideally, the watch is reliable. 1 can be "at least next day" or "the same night (a stretch)", 2 can be "almost 24 hours", "maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch)", or "maximum 12ish hours (a stretch)". 3 can be "yes" or "no (a stretch)".
          There are twelve combinations here, which I'll go through. Using the approximate system (just to give a sense of proportion), "at least next day":"the same night" 1:0.5, so 0.66667 and 0.33333 respectively, "almost 24 hours":"maximum 17ish hours":"maximum 12ish hours" 1:0.75:0.5, so 0.44444, 0.33333, and 0.22222 respectively, "yes":"no" 1:0.5, so 0.66667 and 0.33333 respectively.
          Option 1: 1 - at least next day, 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning/early afternoon, the report is almost 24 hours later, and this scene is a bit after that at 1:38PM", meaning it's now at least the 2nd day after the robbery. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.44444 × 0.66667 = 0.19753.
          Option 2: 1 - at least next day, 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.44444 × 0.33333 = 0.09877.
          Option 3: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - yes. It is not necessary to reduce 2 to 17ish in these circumstances for 1 and 3, however, so this gives the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.33333 × 0.66667 = 0.14815.
          Option 4: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). This can be minimised as "they first attacked the next day, the news report is the following day, and this is later that day", but in that case it means it is at least the 2nd day after the robbery anyway, so you might as well set all three to their ideal and get the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.33333 × 0.33333 = 0.07407.
          Option 5: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning right after dawn, the report is that evening, and this has to be the day after that because it's 1:38PM", but in that case it means it is at least the 2nd day after the robbery anyway, so you might as well set all three to their ideal and get the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.22222 × 0.66667 = 0.09877.
          Option 6: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning right after dawn, the report is that evening, and this is very shortly after, not long before sunset, with Curtis' watch being ignored", meaning it's just about only the day after the robbery. 1 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.22222 × 0.33333 = 0.04938.
          Option 7: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - yes. This is impossible, because it would mean the report is in the night but it's daytime, so 1 has to be pushed to "at least next day", giving the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.44444 × 0.66667 = 0.09877.
          Option 8: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - no (a stretch). This is impossible, because it would mean the report is in the night but it's daytime, so 1 has to be pushed to "at least next day", giving the same as Option 2. 2 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.44444 × 0.33333 = 0.04938.
          Option 9: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked that night, the report is almost 17ish hours later, and this has to be at least the day after because it's 1:38PM", but in that case it means it is at least the 2nd day after the robbery anyway, so you might as well set all three to their ideal and get the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.33333 × 0.66667 = 0.07407.
          Option 10: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). This can be minimised as "they first attacked that night, the report is almost 17ish hours later, and this is right after in the early evening", meaning it is just about still the day after the robbery. 1 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.33333 × 0.33333 = 0.03704.
          Option 11: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked that night, the report is almost 12ish hours later, and this is right after that at 1:38PM" meaning it is just about still the day after the robbery. 1 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.22222 × 0.66667 = 0.04938.
          Option 12: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 11. 1 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.22222 × 0.33333 = 0.02469.
          So overall, there's roughly a 0.19753 + 0.09877 + 0.14815 + 0.07407 + 0.09877 + 0.09877 + 0.04938 + 0.07407 = 0.83951 chance that it's been at least 2 days at this point, with only 0.04938 + 0.03704 + 0.04938 + 0.02469 = 0.16049, a very slim chance based on a lot of stretching, of it working as still being just the next day. So yes, it's possible, but it's very unlikely that it's not at least the second day at this point.
            • Curtis' watch says it's 1:38, would be PM.
            • My So-Called Life exists in the MCU. First aired August 25, 1994.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 f- - - -

      • Billy looks around Madani's apartment, having broken in, and finds his diary.
        • Billy is in the same T-shirt as earlier, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,9 d and e, and would eliminate MTP 2,9 c and f. MTP 2,9 c 50% further eliminated, MTP 2,9 f 50% eliminated.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 g- - - -

      • Frank goes to the bartender and she gives him the rough location of "Valhalla".
        • No reason Frank would wait to follow up, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,9 e and would eliminate MTP 2,9 f and g. MTP 2,9 f 75% further eliminated, MTP 2,9 g 75% eliminated.
          • The New York Bulletin has run an article called "Powell the Powerful".
        • "It was dark" when the bartender went to and left "Valhalla". This means that MTP 2,9 c should have an "at least next day", with the "Valhalla" scene being nighttime and the following scene, with Anderson Schultz, being daytime.
        • This "it was dark" makes a difference to the previous discussion of the options of how many days it has at least been in the scene with Curtis' watch since the day of the robbery.
          Option 1: 1 - at least next day, 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning/early afternoon, the report is almost 24 hours later, then there's the "Valhalla" scene at night followed by a new day, and this scene is then at 1:38PM", meaning it's now at least the 3rd day after the robbery. 3 + days, chance 0.19753.
          Option 2: 1 - at least next day, 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 1. 3 + days, chance 0.09877.
          Option 3: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - yes. It is not necessary to reduce 2 to 17ish in these circumstances for 1 and 3, however, so this gives the same as Option 1. 3 + days, chance 0.14815.
          Option 4: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). This can be minimised as "they first attacked the next day, the news report is the following day, then there's the "Valhalla" scene at night followed by a new day, and this is that day", but in that case it means it is at least the 3rd day after the robbery anyway, so you might as well set all three to their ideal and get the same as Option 1. 3 + days, chance 0.07407.
          Option 5: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning right after dawn, the report is that evening, then there's the "Valhalla" scene at night followed by a new day, and then this is 1:38PM that day", so this is at least the 2nd day after the robbery. 2 + days, chance 0.09877.
          Option 6: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 5. 2 + days, chance 0.04938.
          Option 7: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - yes. This is impossible, because it would mean the report is in the night but it's daytime, so 1 has to be pushed to "at least next day", giving the same as Option 1. 3 + days, chance 0.09877.
          Option 8: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - no (a stretch). This is impossible, because it would mean the report is in the night but it's daytime, so 1 has to be pushed to "at least next day", giving the same as Option 2. 3 + days, chance 0.04938.
          Option 9: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked that night, the report is almost 17ish hours later, then there's the "Valhalla" scene at night followed by a new day, and then this is 1:38PM that day", meaning it is just about still only the 2nd day after the robbery. 2 + days, chance 0.07407.
          Option 10: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 9. 2 + days, chance 0.03704.
          Option 11: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - yes. It is not necessary to reduce 2 to 12ish in these circumstances for 1 and 3, however, so this can be set to 17ish, which gives the same as Option 9. 2 + days, chance 0.04938.
          Option 12: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 11. 2 + days, chance 0.02469.
          So overall, there's roughly a 0.19753 + 0.09877 + 0.14815 + 0.07407 + 0.09877 + 0.04938 = 0.66667 chance that it's been at least 3 days at this point, with only 0.09877 + 0.04938 + 0.07407 + 0.03704 + 0.04938 + 0.02469 = 0.33333, a slim chance based more stretching, of it working as still being just 2 days later. 2 days later would be ideal though as it fits with the "13", so if no further information comes up, assumptions will have to be made for it to only be the 2nd day - the most likely being the 0.09877: they first attacked right after dawn, it's the evening report about 12 hours later, and then the Curtis scene is the next afternoon.
            • The "Valhalla" scene is nighttime.
        • The bartender's comments would support the idea that the "Valhalla" scene is at least the 2nd night after the night following the robbery, because she speaks like they went due to its reputation. However, her words don't have to mean that. She says it sounded like it could be fun, so they went along, which could easily just be the first night, and her mentioning the fact that they party at "Valhalla" through the night (implying most nights, implying multiple nights) could be a separate point about how they do it regularly, and they just happened to o on the first night. We know it has to be a couple of days since the night after the robbery, so that works fine.
      • Frank is followed outside by six men. However, he hides and then corners them. They think they have the upper hand, outnumbering him, but he shoots them all and threatens the leader, saying they need to talk.
      • Dinah gets back to her apartment and finds Billy. She tries to get her backup gun, but he's taken it. He taunts her and asks about Frank, before leaving.
        • Follow-up on Billy in Dinah's apartment, which eliminates MTP 2,9 g.
        • Dinah spent "a year of [her] life" coming to see him in his hospital bed, which works reasonably, since he would have woken up 16 months/1 calendar year ago.
      • Amy gets to Shan's apartment and gives her money to help her escape.
        • Follow-up on Amy, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,9 g and eliminates MTP 2,9 f.
      • Curtis' veterans confront him about what he did to Jake, but he explains about Billy, and they agree to help find him.
        • Follow-up on Curtis leaving to go to the meeting, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,9 f and g.
      • Frank gets back to the caravan and finds Amy gone. He calls Curtis to ask if she is with him, and he explains having left her. Frank tells him about the contract and Curtis realises his mistake.
      • Frank repeatedly calls Amy until she eventually picks up. He begs her to come back and warns her about the contract, saying that she needs to think about just how much she trusts the friend she's staying with.
      • Billy talks to Krista about Frank having ruined his life, questioning how someone who had been like family could do that to himself. He admits he went to Madani, but tells Krista he felt nothing for her. Krista says that Frank's actions have given them a new opportunity, but Billy says he wants Frank to suffer.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 h- - - -

      • Pilgrim takes a call from Danny telling him they have someone who knows where Frank and Amy are, and that he should meet him at his restaurant.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 i- - - -

      • One of Curtis' veterans pretends to be a drunk homeless man, getting up to the fence of the warehouse Billy's crew are staying in to spy on them.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 j- - - -

      • Madani gets a call from Krista.
        • Madani is in the same clothes as earlier, which would eliminate MTP 2,9 h, i, and j. 75% eliminated.
      • Amy becomes suspicious and texts Frank Shan's address.
        • Follow-up on Amy, which eliminates MTP 2,9 h, i, and j.
      • Shan takes the men coming for Amy to the apartment, but Amy is gone. Amy, meanwhile, runs to hide. Frank arrives and some of the men go to deal with him, as one man finds Amy in a closet, holding a gun to her. Frank kills his way up the stairs. Frank shouts up to the man, threatening to kill him if he hurts Amy. He turns his head to respond and Amy uses the opportunity to grab his gun and shoot him. She then panics about shooting him, but Frank shoots him to finish him off, assuring her she wasn't the one to kill him and that his death does not deserve to upset her.
      • Amy kicks Shan in the crotch before leaving.

      - - - -MTP 2,9 k- - - -

      • 22:10 - Madani meets with Krista and tells her about Frank.
        • Krista is in the same clothes as earlier which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,9 h, i, and j and would eliminate MTP 2,9 k. 75% eliminated.
        • Madani has come on Krista's request, which would presumably be the same evening as when Krista called, which would eliminate MTP 2,9 k. MTP 2,9 k 50% further eliminated.
            • Krista's clock shows it's 10:10, would be PM.
        • It's been "weeks" since Billy escaped. It's seemingly been only 9-10 days, but depends on the gaps MTP 2,6 f, g, and h, MTP 2,7 a, b, c, d, e, f, and g, and MTP 2,9 a, b, c, and k.
      • Pilgrim goes to Danny's restaurant, but finds Kusack, who led the white supremacist gang he used to be part of, and is Danny's son. He asks what happened 12 years ago when John disappeared, and John explains he got arrested after a fight where a man died, but then a man saved him and made him realise God had a plan for him. Kusack says he needs to punish Pilgrim, whom he calls Robert, and prepares to beat him to death.
        • Follow-up on Pilgrim going to Danny's restaurant, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,9 i and j and eliminates MTP 2,9 k.
        • Now the "weeks" comment depends on the gaps MTP 2,6 f, g, and h, MTP 2,7 a, b, c, d, e, f, and g, and MTP 2,9 a, b, and c.
          • Pilgrim got arrested "12 years ago", and again, it's been "12 years".
          • When Pilgrim left the gang, Danny was just 14.
      • Amy says she cannot understand how Frank feels OK with killing people, and says everything is just a "flustercluck", which makes Frank laugh.
        • Amy specifically says they're coming straight from the incident at Shan's (which is obvious anyway), which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,9 k.

      [Episode 10 - The Dark Hearts of Men]

        • Flashback: Military training down the line game.
          • Presumably not Kandahar, but presumably the previous deployment, which is dated to April 2011-June 2012, around November 2011.

      - - - -MTP 2,10 a- - - -

      • 22:28 - Frank and Curtis sit on a roof in the rain. Billy spies on them.
        • Flashback: 22:28 - 24 hours earlier, Madani talks with Krista over wine. Krista encourages her to share about Frank and Billy.
        • The flashback continues from the "Madani meets with Krista and tells her about Frank" scene and is "24 hours earlier", meaning MTP 2,10 a is defined as 1 day.
            • Clock in flashback appears to say 10:28, would be PM, which makes the present events "24 hours" later also around 22:28.
      • Frank tells Curtis he never wanted him involved. Frank worries he's like Billy, but Curtis assures him he's different because he cares about people.
      • Frank sees masks.
        • Flashback: Pilgrim, bloodied, sits and drinks, then takes cocaine. He removes teeth from his head, rips his shirt to use as a bandage, and replaces his dislocated jaw.
          • Has to be shortly after the fight at Kusack's restaurant - can't be 24 + hours later. So, must be a flashback to the night before.
        • Flashback: Kusack sets his men on Pilgrim, but he fights back and kills the men. Kusack goes to kill him himself, but he takes one man's knuckledusters and beats Kusack to death. Danny tries to run but he shoots him. He takes the alcohol and gun.
        • Flashback: Madani explains to Krista why she believes Frank has a code.
        • Flashback: Frank scouts Billy's warehouse.
          • It would appear that there's three time frames going on: 1 - follow-ups on the end of Episode 9 in chronological flashbacks (Madani and Krista drink and talk, Pilgrim kills Kusack's men, Madani explaining Frank's code), 2 - some events the following morning (Pilgrim in his room, this scene), and 3 - the present (the rooftop, Frank seeing masks).
        • Flashback (thread 2): Pilgrim doesn't take a call. He goes to a neighbour's room, where there's partying with prostitutes, and threatens the man in the room with his gun.
        • Flashback (thread 2): Frank and Curtis set up on the roof.
      • Frank is attacked.
        • Flashback (thread 2): Pilgrim talks about shame as he receives oral sex from one of the prostitutes and continues to drink.
        • Flashback (thread 2): Frank and Curtis watch as women arrive at "Valhalla". Frank tells him he wants to know if/when the girls leave so he can go in. Billy continues to watch them.
          • Presumably this is after the opening scene now, just the rain as stopped. I don't think it's a following day, they're all in exactly the same positions and the same clothes minus raincoats.
        • Curtis reckons the women will get drunk by midnight and leave by 2AM, which could become relevant.
        • Flashback (thread 2): John remembers his early days with Rebecca.
          • John's memories seem to be around the time of their marriage. Considering how devout a Christian Rebecca is, and John has (sort of) become, I can't imagine they conceived their children before marriage. Zell Steele Morrow (Michael) was born December 9, 2006, making him 11y5m old at the middle of filming on May 20, 2018. Since the middle of the season is set pretty much then, don't really need to do much calculating, that would suggest Michael was born around November/December 2006. Henry Boshart (Lemuel) looks younger so it doesn't matter that I can't find his date of birth. So, if their oldest child was born around November/December 2006, they were probably married by March 2006. However, John left his white supremacist group and joined Christianity 12 years ago, so around mid-2006, maybe early 2006. If he met Rebecca quickly and they got married quickly, I still can't see them getting married until at least early 2007. So married early-to-mid-2007? With Michael then born late 2007, making him about a year younger than the actor portraying him, which is fairly standard.
        • Flashback (thread 1): Krista explains that she likes doing her job because every living thing deserves saving, but Madani disagrees.
          • When Krista was "8, maybe" she found a dying bird and her father told her it was a lost cause but she nursed it back to health. Madani explains that Billy is not a victim and that in all honesty, she wants to kill him.
            • Can't make out Krista's book collection well. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (27:03 - 1:00) = 26:03 of about (47:21 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 44:11, so should look about 61.2% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • Billy coming to Madani's apartment was "today" in this flashback set shortly after the end of Episode 9, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,9 h, i, j, and k.
        • Flashback (thread 2): Billy arrives at "Valhalla". Frank hides under a truck. Billy enters.
        • "5 19" registration, works fine.
      • Frank continues to be attacked.
        • Flashback (thread 2): Billy addresses his men, explaining about what Frank has done. Frank continues to wait outside. Billy tells them he needs their help to deal with Frank, who he knows is outside.
        • Flashback (thread 2): Frank advances between trucks until he can ambush one of Billy's guards, then he takes him out.
            • Mack Trucks exists in the MCU. Founded June 11, 1900.
            • Volvo exists in the MCU. Founded 1927.
        • "3 16" registration, but it's an abandoned warehouse so presumably it's just an old abandoned truck.
        • Flashback (thread 2): Billy sends the women home. Curtis watches and sees them leave.
        • Flashback (thread 1): Krista explains that being happy is not in human nature, and that they all have personal hells.
        • Flashback (thread 2): Frank enters a hatch into an underground corridor. Billy waits for him with a gun. Frank advances.

      Next day.

        • Flashback (thread 2): 02:15 - Curtis sets off the distraction explosions as planned.
        • It's now 02:15AM, which means it's the day after when the episode started, which means the present day events after this flashback are also now on the day after when the episode started. Adding the "next day" note now, but it should actually happen earlier.
            • Phone says "02:15AM".
        • Curtis' phone definitely has a date, but I can't make it out. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (36:18 - 1:00) = 35:18 of about (47:21 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 44:11, so should look about 79.9% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • Flashback (thread 2): Frank hears the explosions and goes into "Valhalla" as planned, but is ambushed by Billy's men, with Billy taunting him from nearby.
      • Frank is beaten to the ground, and Billy walks over to him. He crouches over him to claim his victory and tells his men to "break him and then finish him".
      • Two men go after Curtis.
      • Frank is stabbed, but kicks the legs from underneath a man and pulls the knife out to use for himself. He gets to his feet and stabs and shoots his attackers, killing them all.
      • 02:35 - Curtis is attacked by the men and shoots at them, not wanting to kill them, but threatening them to make them leave. He gets one man, Philip, in the leg, and goes to help him as he worries he might have just given him a fatal injury, using his belt to try to stop the bleeding.
            • Curtis' watch appears to say 2:35, would be AM.
      • Frank catches up with Billy in the main area of the warehouse, continuing to kill his men. Billy runs upstairs to get away and Frank shoots after him, but when he follows up to the room, he finds innocent women dead, riddled with bullets, and breaks down with the belief that his recklessness has led him to kill innocent bystanders.
      • Curtis tries to get Philip to stay with him, but he dies.
        • Flashback (thread 1): Madani leaves Krista's and Billy comes out to speak to her. She tells him she thinks she knows what they can do to break Frank mentally.
      • Frank continues to break down, falling to his knees. He calls out in fury for Billy, but the police arrive and he has to hand himself over.

      [Episode 11 - The Abyss]

      • Frank is driven to the hospital.
      • Frank is worked on at hospital.
      • Curtis goes to the caravan and tells Amy what happened. He struggles with having killed a man, and says not to try to rescue Frank. He goes to shower. Frank was arrested "today" but that was never in doubt.

      - - - -MTP 2,11 a- - - -

      • John calls his home and Eliza picks up. She says Rebecca is resting, but she has in fact died.
        • Strongly implied to be the morning after his intoxicated night, which would eliminate MTP 2,11 a. 75% eliminated.

      - - - -MTP 2,11 b- - - -

      • Karen visits Frank in hospital.
        • Karen would presumably visit A.S.A.P., which would eliminate MTP 2,11 b. 25% eliminated.
        • Karen is working with Nelson and Murdock, so this is after Marvel's Daredevil: Season 3.
      • Curtis gets back from his shower and finds Amy gone.
        • Follow-up on Curtis' shower, which eliminates MTP 2,11 a and b.
      • Frank wakes and tells Karen what he thinks he has done.
      • Madani arrives at the "Valhalla" crime scene and asks Mahoney to let her deal with Billy.
        • The women's bodies have just been taken from the scene so this is still only hours later, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,11 a and b.
      • Frank wakes from his old nightmare again and tells Karen again about the struggle of getting over his family's deaths, how he can't remember their laughs and can just remember the looks on their faces as they died, explaining that he wonders what the looks on the women's faces were.
          • Frank reaffirms that the massacre was the day after he got back.

      - - - -MTP 2,11 c- - - -

      • Amy steals a nurse's uniform and ID.
        • The ID is valid "01/18"-"01/20", which works fine.
        • Strongly implied to be soon after she left the caravan, which would eliminate MTP 2,11 c. 75% eliminated.
      • Amy gets into the ward and tries to get Frank out, but he wants to stay. Madani arrives and Billy calls her to taunt Frank.
        • Follow-up on Karen with Frank, which eliminates MTP 2,11 c.
      • Billy sits to talk with Krista, and explains that he feels slightly hollow after beating Frank. He asks how she feels about planning with him to have the women killed to make Frank believe he has killed innocent people, worried that one day she will blame him and accuse him of manipulating her to the point where she planned murder. She says she did it for her love of him, but that they need to leave.
        • A discussion that would be had not long after the shooting of the women, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,11 a, b, and c.
      • Amy leaves Frank's ward.
      • Madani tells Karen she thinks that Frank might not have killed the women, as things don't add up.
      • Eliza arrives and tells John about Rebecca's death last night.
        • Rebecca died "last night" and was dead by the time John called earlier, so that call was earlier today, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,11 b and c.
        • John thinking of her was "last night", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,11 a, b, and c.
      • Karen takes Madani to see Ed at the morgue. She agrees to give him a favour in return for letting her and Madani see the bodies.
        • The shooting was "last night", which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,11 a, b, and c.
        • Ed's ID might have a date. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (31:45 - 1:00) = 30:45 of about (54:34 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 51:24, so should look about 59.8% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • The bodies will be moved "first thing tomorrow", which could become relevant.
        • The bodies arrived "first thing this morning", which means the scene with Madani and Mahoney, while the bodies were being transported, was today, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,11 c.
            • The Madani and Mahoney scene was "first thing [in the] morning".
      • Ed shows them one of the bodies, and they realise the women were executed up-close, meaning it wasn't Frank who killed them.
        • Ed's ID might have a date. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (33:04 - 1:00) = 32:04 of about (54:34 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 51:24, so should look about 62.4% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • Flashback: Billy kills the women to trick Frank.
      • The women leave, and Karen does Ed the favour he wanted.
      • Krista tells Billy about how her dad jumped out of a window with her, and that was what gave her her back scar. Same clothes, no gap.
          • The incident previously said to be when Krista was 9 was her father jumping out of a window with her.
      • John furiously trashes his room in grief.
        • Flashback: Eliza tells Pilgrim that Castle being at large is the reason he wasn't with Rebecca, and that he is to blame. She manipulates him, saying this is a case like Abraham where after suffering, John will undergo a test that will give his family health and prosperity in the long run.
      • A man posing as a police officer takes over Frank's guard duty. He enters, explaining that Frank killed his Irish family, and goes to kill him for the money and revenge. Amy, Karen, and Madani arrive and stop him, worried that Frank was accepting his death, and Karen tells him he didn't do it. They prepare to get him out.
      • The team begin their escape, splitting up. Pilgrim arrives as they make their way out.
      • 19:19 - Madani Frank out in uniform.
            • Clock says 7:19, would be PM.
      • Ed wears Karen's heels. Mahoney asks Karen where her shoes are, and she says she gave them to a good cause.
      • Mahoney apprehends them as they try to leave, and arrests Frank.
        • Still sunny after 19:19, so between April 1st and September 6th.

      [Episode 12 - Collision Course]

      • Mahoney drives Frank in an ambulance. Madani calls to try to convince him to come back, but he refuses. Pilgrim catches up with them in a police car and rams Mahoney off the road. The ambulance crashes below. Madani arrives, but Pilgrim escapes.
        • "Might just be Tuesday to you," implies it's currently Tuesday.
        • "Might just be Tuesday to you," implies it's currently Tuesday. The scene from Episode 9 with Curtis' watch was discussed to have a 0.33333 chance of being at least 2 days after the bank robbery or a 0.66667 chance of being at least 3 days after the bank robbery. The robbery was Friday, so that was Sunday or Monday. It's now definitively (every gap since is eliminated) 2 days after that day, which means there's a 0.33333 chance it's at least Tuesday and a 0.66667 chance it's at least Wednesday (and it's not going to be later than Thursday/Friday). So Tuesday makes sense, it means the "at least 2 days since the robbery" option for the scene with Curtis' watch has to be taken, and despite that having a lesser chance of working, it was preferable because it works with the "13" on the phone. So that's it, sorted, more gaps basically removed and a seemingly definitive placement. The most likely option was discussed to be "they first attacked right after dawn, it's the evening report about 12 hours later, and then the Curtis scene is the next afternoon", which means we can now say that unless otherwise specified, MTP 2,9 a and b are essentially eliminated and MTP 2,9 c is essentially defined as 1 day.
        • Mahoney plans on arresting Madani later today, which could become relevant.
      • Frank crawls out of the ambulance and knocks his dislocated shoulder back into place. He realises there is a petrol leak and a fire and goes back to save Mahoney, knowing the vehicle will explode. He gets him out, but Mahoney still says he cannot let Frank get away. Ultimately, however, he cannot bring himself to shoot Frank, and Frank leaves.
      • Pilgrim dresses his wounds.
      • Krista watches WJBP-TV's reports from the scene. Billy sees and tells her he is disappointed she was going to keep it from him. He leaves saying he is going to pick up the papers for their escape.
            • Clock says 9:25, would be PM except there's daylight and 20:31 is the latest possible sunset. This is clearly shortly after the escape and not the next day, so this has to be ignored.
      • Madani speaks with Mahoney at the scene. Krista calls her, but arouses Madani's suspicions.
      • Frank gets to David Schultz's office in his police outfit.
      • Frank attacks Schultz, thinking he is responsible for Pilgrim.
      • Pilgrim arrives at the caravan.
      • Pilgrim enters the caravan and Curtis pretends not to know what he's talking about. However, Amy arrives and gives him away. She shoots at Pilgrim but only gets him in the leg, then runs to a trap door to escape. Curtis and Pilgrim fight, but Pilgrim beats him. However, Amy is seemingly gone. It has been a "testing day", referring to the ambulance incident, but there was no question of a gap.

      - - - -MTP 2,12 a- - - -

      • Billy visits his crew and gives them passports with new identities to get away.
        • Some football/soccer game is happening between a team in blue and a team in red, and one of the blue players is being sent off with a red card, but don't know which game.
        • Strongly implied to be a follow-up on Billy leaving Krista's house, which would eliminate MTP 2,12 a. 75% eliminated.
        • Krista's fake passport is valid "15 Sept 2017" to "15 Sept 2027", which works fine.
          • Krista's fake passport has a date of birth of "22 Feb 1981", implying Krista's date of birth is in that ballpark.
      • Frank gets back to the caravan and becomes worried when he sees the open trapdoor. He enters and finds Curtis on the floor, and he explains that she ran. Frank calls her, but finds her phone discarded outside. He gets David Schultz out of the car.
        • Follow-up on Frank and David, which eliminates MTP 2,12 a.
      • Frank sits David down in the caravan.
      • Pilgrim goes back to his room. Amy climbs out of his boot.
      • Frank accuses David of lying, but comes to realise David genuinely is unaware of his parents' actions. David is horrified to find out what they have done. Frank says they're going to call his parents.
      • Pilgrim picks shrapnel out of his leg and Amy approaches his room, shotgun in hand.

      - - - -MTP 2,12 b- - - -

      • Madani visits Krista, suspicious of her. She passive aggressively asks about Billy's use of words, and Krista nervously asks to be excused to go to the bathroom.
        • Krista is in the same clothes as earlier, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,12 a and would eliminate MTP 2,12 b. 75% eliminated.
        • Strongly implied to be the same day Krista called Madani, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,12 a and would eliminate MTP 2,12 b. 75% further eliminated.
      • Billy buys flowers for Krista on his way back to her.
        • Strongly implied to be a follow-up on Billy saying goodbye to his crew, which would eliminate MTP 2,12 b. 75% further eliminated.
      • Madani goes to corner Krista, but Krista has left the bathroom and attacks her from behind with a knife. They get in a fight, wit Krista cutting Madani's face, but Madani throws her out of her window.
            • Nutella exists in the MCU, which started in 1963.
      • Billy arrives back and finds Krista on the ground. He looks up to the window and sees Madani.

      [Episode 13 - The Whirlwind]

      • Billy attacks Madani and ends up strangling her.
      • The Schultzes talk about Pilgrim's children. Anderson gets a video call. He thinks it's from David, but it's actually Frank. Anderson threatens Frank, so Frank punches David. He threatens them back before hanging up.
        • Follow-up on David in the caravan, which eliminates MTP 2,12 b.
      • Pilgrim hears noise and cautiously approaches the door with a gun, but finds no one. Amy is hiding. The phone rings and Pilgrim finds Lemuel calling. Eliza then takes the phone and tells him to take down Frank.
        • Follow-up on Amy with Pilgrim, which reaffirms the elimination of MTP 2,12 b.

      Next day.

      • Madani wakes. Mahoney tells her that Krista survived, and that she probably has dealt a fatal wound to Billy considering the amount of blood loss there's evidence for.
        • Around here we have passed midnight into the next day.
      • Curtis gets a call from Amy.
      • Frank meets Amy at the hotel. He goes in after Pilgrim but ends up in the next room. A shootout begins through the walls.
      • Pilgrim manages to capture Amy and says to bring him David, taking Amy away with him.
      • Frank fights guards in the elevator as Pilgrim descends with Amy.
      • Frank reaches the bottom and runs after Pilgrim as he drives with Amy. He jumps onto the bonnet, but Pilgrim swings him off.
            • Ford Motor Company exists in the MCU, founded June 16, 1903.
      • Billy threatens a doctor to get his bullets sorted, refusing to go to a hospital or go under anaesthetic. The pain, however, causes Billy to pass out. The doctor realises he can take the money and leave.
            • Mount Sinai Hospital exists in the MCU, founded 1852.
      • David talks to Curtis, and asks if he really wants to be like this. He says he wants to go home.
      • Billy wakes and finds the doctor left him in a dumpster.
      • Frank gets back and finds David gone. Pilgrim calls and Frank claims to still have David, saying to come to the trailer.
      • Amy tells Pilgrim it's not too late to walk away, but he sadly says that he wishes he could, but can't.
      • Curtis takes David to meet with Mahoney at an American football pitch.
        • Mahoney says, "Last few days, I've learned nothing is easy or simple where Castle is concerned." Should have been about 6 days since the beginning of Episode 8 when they encounter each other, so works.
      • Pilgrim pulls up at the trailer park. He explains that the Schultzes have his sons. Frank convinces him to let Amy go.
      • Once Amy has gone, Frank admits that he doesn't have David and doesn't know where he is. He and Pilgrim fight, both tired and badly injured. Frank eventually beats him, but Pilgrim asks him to make sure his sons aren't hurt. He calls Frank the biblical whirlwind.
      • Curtis gets back from the difficult night and gets a call from Billy, saying he is dying in his basement. He makes Curtis promise not to call the police, and asks that he doesn't have to die alone.
      • Dinah talks to Krista, still in her bloody clothes. Krista says Billy will survive and come for her, but Madani says they'll let her know when they find him dead.
      • Billy hears someone enter and calls out, thinking it's Curtis. However, it's Frank. Billy talks for a while, but when he tries to apologise, Frank finishes him off and walks away.
      • Mahoney talks to Madani and Curtis about Billy's body. He reluctantly agrees to let the story be that Madani just shot Billy five times rather than three.

      - - - -MTP 2,13 a- - - -

      • The Schultzes talk over dinner. Amy enters and says she knocked out the guards, holding a gun to Eliza. When Eliza tries to reach for a knife, Frank shoots her from outside the room. Her blood spills from her head across the table, and Frank enters, showing Anderson that he recorded the video call where Anderson threatened him and indirectly confessed. He gives Anderson the gun and a bullet, saying to either kill himself or choose to live but be exposed.
        • Would presumably be as soon as possible after Frank and Pilgrim were sorted, which would eliminate MTP 2,13 a. 50% eliminated.
        • If Anderson chooses to live, they will go to the Bulletin in 24 hours, which could become relevant.
      • As Frank and Amy leave, they hear Anderson kill himself. Pilgrim stands by, reunited with his sons.

      - - - -MTP 2,13 b- - - -
      At least next day.

      • Frank and Amy wait in a bus terminal and Frank tells her he helped her because she made him laugh and seemed scared. He gives her money to go to Florida and follow her diving dream. As a bus arrives, he admits she changed his life and they hug. Amy gets onto the bus. She looks back, but Frank is gone.
        • Frank is still bloodied, implying this is just the next day - however, it is possible that this is just from not cleaning his wounds properly yet and/or bruising. This would eliminate MTP 2,13 a and b. MTP 2,13 a 50% further eliminated, MTP 2,13 b 50% eliminated.
        • Registration says "2019" "8" "1" "8". I don't know what that meas but presumably it just works fine as the registration ending in 2019.

      - - - -MTP 2,13 c- - - -

      • Frank waits in a car. He gets a call from Madani, who is now in the CIA. Madani offers him a job, but he says he already has one.
        • "Three months later". This would have to be after Avengers: Infinity War, despite Loeb's comments, but this is an acceptable exception.
      • Gangsters meet each other in an arranged location. Neither party understands who arranged it and pull guns on each other, but Frank enters in the Punisher gear, revealing he arranged it and opening rapid fire on all of them.

      The Potential Gaps

      Now, breaking down the potential gaps:

        • MTP 2,1 a - X.
        • MTP 2,2 a - X.
        • MTP 2,2 b - X.
        • MTP 2,2 c - X.
        • MTP 2,2 d - X.
        • MTP 2,4 a - X.
        • MTP 2,4 b - X.
        • MTP 2,4 c - X.
        • MTP 2,4 d - X.
        • MTP 2,4 e - X.
        • MTP 2,4 f - X.
        • MTP 2,5 a - X.
        • MTP 2,5 b - X.
        • MTP 2,5 c - X.
        • MTP 2,5 d - X.
        • MTP 2,5 e - X.
        • MTP 2,5 f - X.
        • MTP 2,5 g - X.
        • MTP 2,5 h - X.
        • MTP 2,5 i - X.
        • MTP 2,5 j - X.
        • MTP 2,6 a - X.
        • MTP 2,6 b - X.
        • MTP 2,6 c - X.
        • MTP 2,6 d - X.
        • MTP 2,6 e - X.
      • MTP 2,6 f - 50% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,6 g - 50% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,6 h - 50% eliminated.
        • MTP 2,6 i - Defined as 1 day.
        • MTP 2,6 j - X.
        • MTP 2,6 k - X.
        • MTP 2,6 l - X.
        • MTP 2,6 m - X.
        • MTP 2,6 n - X.
        • MTP 2,6 o - X.
        • MTP 2,6 p - X.
      • MTP 2,7 a - 87.5% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,7 b - 87.5% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,7 c - 93.75% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,7 d - 93.75% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,7 e - 75% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,7 f - 75% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,7 g - 90.625% eliminated.
        • MTP 2,7 h - X.
        • MTP 2,7 i - X.
        • MTP 2,8 a - X.
        • MTP 2,8 b - X.
        • MTP 2,8 c - X.
        • MTP 2,8 d - X.
      • MTP 2,9 a - 25% eliminated (later essentially eliminated).
      • MTP 2,9 b - 81.25% eliminated (later essentially eliminated).
      • MTP 2,9 c - 62.5% eliminated (later essentially defined as 1 day).
        • MTP 2,9 d - X.
        • MTP 2,9 e - X.
        • MTP 2,9 f - X.
        • MTP 2,9 g - X.
        • MTP 2,9 h - X.
        • MTP 2,9 i - X.
        • MTP 2,9 j - X.
        • MTP 2,9 k - X.
        • MTP 2,10 a - Defined as 1 day.
        • MTP 2,11 a - X.
        • MTP 2,11 b - X.
        • MTP 2,11 c - X.
        • MTP 2,12 a - X.
        • MTP 2,12 b - X.
      • MTP 2,13 a - 75% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,13 b - 50% eliminated.
      • MTP 2,13 c - Full, 0% eliminated.

      Days Put Together

      April 2011

        • 2,10 flashback: Military training down the line game.

      July 21, 2013

        • 2,4 flashback: Billy and Frank watch a children's baseball game. Billy talks about the paedophile from is youth who assaulted him while playing stickball.

      January 2017

        • 2,7 flashback: 11:23 - Monroe interviews Madani after her head injury.
        • Frank's liberty is in danger if Madani tells the truth, which does imply this is after Season 1 and not in those 3 days between the carousel and the ending. So that works as early January.
        • 2,7 flashback: While it hurts to say it, Madani admits about her time with Russo and covers up the rest.
        • 2,7 flashback: Marion tells Madani that she has to learn to deal with lying.

      July 23, 2017

        • 2,4 flashback: Krista works with Billy, who wears a blank mask. She tells him to decorate it.

      July 30, 2017

        • 2,4 flashback: Billy has an appointment with Krista, and has designed the mask. He says he wants to be the best version of himself again.

      Day A-5, if not A-4 [Sunday]

        • 2,3 flashback: John Pilgrim chops trees.
        • 2,3 flashback: John Pilgrim attends a church service.
        • 2,3 flashback: Morning - Pilgrim talks about Rebecca with Anderson Schulz.
        • 2,3 flashback: Pilgrim gets dressed and tells his wife he is leaving for a couple of days.

      Day A-1 [Thursday, if not Wednesday]

        • 2,4 depiction of past event: All of "Rachel"'s friends were killed after she went out for food.

      Day A0 [Friday, if not Thursday]
      [Episode 1 - Road House Blues]

        • 2,1 flashback: Frank watches Shooter Jennings in Lola's Roadhouse. He meets Beth, the bartender. A girl comes to the bar and asks for alcohol, and the owner allows Beth to sell it to her.
        • 2,1 flashback: A guy harasses Beth and Frank stops him.
        • 2,1 flashback: The girl goes to the phone in the bar and calls a man called Konchevsky, who has been kidnapped by John Pilgrim. She tells him that every one of the people she was with has died and she wants out, but Konchevsky says he wants the photographs. She agrees to meet tomorrow at Lola's Roadhouse, but once the phone call ends, Pilgrim kills him.
        • The girl will return "tomorrow night", which could become relevant.

      Day A1 [Saturday, if not Friday]

        • 2,1 flashback: Beth flirts with Frank.
        • 2,1 flashback: Beth invites Frank back to her home.
        • 2,1 flashback: 02:21 - The girl leaves Lola's Roadhouse and goes to the nearby motel. She picks the lock to have a place to sleep.
        • 2,1 flashback: Beth and Frank talk about each other's lives, and she mentions her son, Rex.
        • 2,1 flashback: Beth and Frank have sex.
        • 2,1 flashback: Beth and Frank talk and he tells her his real name and about his family's deaths.
        • 2,1 flashback: In the morning, Frank goes to leave and meets Rex, who was dropped off early. He arranges with Beth to take them to a place called Donatello's to get pancakes.
        • 2,1 flashback: Beth, Frank, and Rex get pancakes together.
        • Beth just works there on weekends, which could mean Friday night/Saturday night or Saturday night/Sunday night, which makes this Saturday/Sunday or Sunday/Monday.
        • 2,1 flashback: 08:05 - The girl wakes up in the motel.
        • 2,1 flashback: Frank and Beth say goodbye, but she invites him back to Lola's Roadhouse that evening.
        • Beth invites him back "tonight", which could become relevant. It also means that this is the second day of her weekend shifts, but again, not sure if that would be Friday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday.
        • 2,1 flashback: 08:08 - The girl escapes the motel room as a woman who works at the motel tries to enter, walking away as she is shouted at. Frank enters his room a few doors down and bumps into the girl again.
        • Frank's van has a "9 18" sticker, meaning it is no later than September 2018.
        • 2,1 flashback: Shooter Jennings performs again at Lola's Roadhouse.
        • 2,1 flashback: Frank is driving away but changes his mind and turns back around.
        • 2,1 flashback: Frank talks to Beth again.
        • 2,1 flashback: Suspicious people arrive in the bar. The girl tries to escape through the toilet window but gets caught.
        • 2,1 flashback: Frank arrives at the toilet and starts fighting, taking down everyone in there to protect the girl.
        • Leaflets on the wall but can't make out any dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (37:12 - 1:00) = 36:12 of about (53:08 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 49:58, so should look about 72.4% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • 2,1 flashback: Frank and the girl talk in the toilet. She claims to not know who the people are or why they are here for her, but eventually begs for his help with the remaining people outside.
        • 2,1 flashback: 23:47 - Frank gets in a fight with the remaining people in the bar. He kills all the attackers, though the owner gets killed and Beth gets shot in the shoulder.
        • 2,1 flashback: Frank picks up Beth to get her to hospital. He drive her along with the girl and they are stopped by a car on the way with more people after the girl, but Frank shoots them down.
        • Frank's van has a registration sticker but I can't make it out. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (45:00 - 1:00) = 44:00 of about (53:08 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 49:58, so should look about 88.1% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Frank drives Amy in a van but they are stopped by a car in front. Franks shoots the people in the car down.
        • Frank's van has a registration sticker but I can't make it out. Waiting for HD screencap, at about 00:48 of about (53:08 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 49:58, so should look about 1.6% through the gallery when it comes out.

      Day A2 [Sunday, if not Saturday]

      • Frank gets Beth to the hospital.
      • John Pilgrim arrives at the roadhouse and looks at the mess from the fight.
      • Pilgrim watches back the security footage of the mysterious man killing all the people working for him.
      • Madani goes to see Billy Russo as he sleeps in his hospital bed.
      • Frank drives the girl, and says that he hopes more people come so he can take them out as well.

      [Episode 2 - Fight or Flight]

      • Frank continues driving. He starts to fall asleep at the wheel but refuses to let the girl drive.
        • The girl is worried they will freeze to death if they crash, which could be indicative of the time of year, but they're up north in the Michigan/Ohio area so it's probably cold a lot of the year.
        • Restless by Ryan Innes plays on the radio, which was released April 13, 2018, suggesting this is after then.
      • Soon after dawn - Frank and the girl get to a motel in Ohio, and the girl has to buy them a room. The woman at the desk is difficult but they get the room eventually.
        • Frank's van now has a "10" sticker, but the year is obscured. Might see it later.
      • The two of them get to the room. Frank introduces himself as Pete and the girl introduces herself as Rachel.
      • "Rachel" helps Frank get a bullet out of his side. She asks to leave.
      • 06:22 - "Rachel" tries to escape. Frank uses cable ties to tie her to the bed and keep her from running.
      • Morning - Billy has nightmares. Madani visits him again, but Krista arrives and asks her to leave. Billy talks about building "the jigsaw".
        • Krista says, "I've been working with Mr. Russo for months," so it's at least "months" since Season 1.
      • Pilgrim visits Beth in hospital and pressures her for a name. She manages to only tell him Pete Castiglione.
      • 12:21 - Frank confronts "Rachel" about lying. He finds undeveloped pictures in he rpocket and asks what's going on. "Rachel" accuses him of having looked for a fight.
      • 12:26 - Despite claiming she can be trusted, Frank leaves "Rachel" tied up again.
      • Krista works with Billy.
      • Pilgrim has someone working for him look at Frank's hostel room near Lola's Roadhouse. The man gets a name: Pete Castiglione. Pilgrim expresses distaste at the man's love of technology and profanity.
      • Frank buys the room again from the woman at the desk, who charges him double occupancy.
      • Frank bashes in the wall of the room.
      • Dinah has dinner with Rafi, who disapproves of her visiting Billy.
      • Marlena arrives at the hostel.
      • Shootout at the hostel.
        • Car has a registration sticker. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (41:23 - 1:00) = 40:23 of about (54:54 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 51:44, so should look about 78.1% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • The girl tries to take the van and drive away but the police arrive and apprehend them.
      • At the station, the police have someone operate on Marlena's leg.
      • The police question "Rachel", and she claims to be a victim.
      • Frank refuses help for his injured hand.
      • Marlena, "Rachel", and Frank have DNA swabs and fingerprint scans.
      • The man working for Pilgrim lets him know about the three of them having their prints put into the system.
      • Frank calls Madani. The sheriff refuses to let them go.
      • The medic leaves, and John Pilgrim sits in a car watching her go.

      [Episode 3 - Trouble the Water]

      • The medic leaves, and John Pilgrim sits in a car watching her go.

      Day A3 [Monday, if not Sunday]

      • Marlena threatens Frank as they wait in their cells.
      • "Rachel" bothers one of the police officers until he gives her money. The sheriff confronts her about her lies, but she explains that Marlena is trying to kill her and "Pete" saved her, yet did also tie her up.
        • The average age of "Rachel"'s aliases is 18. She still claims to be 16, but is lying and it sounds like she is about 18.
      • An officer goes to Frank and Marlena, saying Marlena's record is bad but that "Pete"'s record is remarkably clean, and that he suspects he is a marine.
      • 16:45 - During a session with Dr. Dumont, Billy breaks out of the hospital.
      • Pilgrim and a man he is working with get to the station to take "Rachel", but the sheriff refuses. Pilgrim leaves but sends a signal and the station is blacked out.
        • It's still a while until Thursday (i.e. it's not Wednesday or Thursday currently). That works since we're 3 and 2 days on from Beth's shifts at Lola's Roadhouse, which are either Friday and Saturday or Saturday and Sunday, making this Monday or Tuesday.
      • Frank warns them the police that they're going to be in trouble.
      • 21:30 - Dinah goes to talk to Krista, but Mahoney arrives and sends her away.
        • Dinah talks about "all the months" she visited Billy. Unclear if she started visiting as soon as she could (which could be before he woke up or some time after) or as soon as he woke up, so may or may not be indicative of time since Season 1. But at the very least it means it's at least "months" since Season 1.
        • Krista says, "I've been treating him for months," so it's at least "months" since Season 1.
      • 21:33 - Dinah leaves and makes a call.
      • Amy gets a coke out of the vending machine. Frank tells them not to go outside and engage whoever is out there, but they go ahead nonetheless.
      • The officer gets into the car but is shot. They get him safely inside and Pilgrim walks up to the sheriff, telling him the officer has just hours to live.
      • The officers put on bulletproof vests. Frank begs them to let him loose to help.
      • Marlena talks about the attack that will be coming. The shot officer's brother in another cell tells Marlena he shouldn't even be there as his own brother just locked him up for being drunk in public.
      • The shootout begins at the station. Frank manages to get loose and kill Pilgrim's people.
      • Frank has the chance to run but chooses not to, convincing the sheriff he is trustworthy. The officer's brother is freed from his cell.
      • Marlena goes to talk with Pilgrim, but he kills her.
      • Frank encourages the officers to let him take out the remaining people, and they eventually agree.
      • Frank goes outside, shooting the men's Molotov cocktails in their own hands and hunting everyone down.
      • Inside the station, the police are pleased with Frank's success.
      • Homeland arrive in a helicopter and stop Pilgrim, though he gets away.
      • Madani touches down to pick up Frank.
      • The sheriff thanks Frank for his work.
      • Frank and "Rachel" tell Madani they want to be taken back to New York.

      Day A4 [Tuesday, if not Monday]
      [Episode 4 - Scar Tissue]

      • Billy is taunted on the bus.
      • Billy follows the guy off the bus and attacks him, taking his clothes.
        • 2,4 flashback: Dinah drops off Frank and "Rachel" at her apartment before she leaves.
      • Rafi and Dinah talk. She claims she dropped Frank off outside New York.
        • Trees are bare, suggesting no later than March/early April.
      • "Rachel" says the room is too tidy. Frank puts on the TV and sees a report on Billy's escape on the news.
      • "Rachel" cries under the bed.
      • Frank watches a hockey game.
        • The game is Lokomotiv Yaroslavl vs. Dynamo Moskva, and it's 2-1 12 minutes into the 3rd period. The only recent games between the two where L.Y. were home and D.M. away and L.Y. ≤ 2, D.M. ≤ 1 going into the 3rd period were one on January 7, 2018 and one on October 3, 2015. The one on January 7th though was 1-1 at the end of the 3rd period, so it can't be that either. The October 3, 2015 game was 2-1 going into the 3rd period and finished 3-1, but that 3rd L.Y. goal was in the 60th minute, which means that 12 minute into the 3rd period, it was indeed 2-1. So I guess it's just that October 3, 2015 game for some reason.
      • Billy sits in the bar watching the same game, when the news comes on saying to look out for him.
      • Madani gets back and admits that she needs Frank to deal with Billy. She tells him about Billy's remarkable recovery and shows hi Billy's diary, claiming Billy is lying about his memory loss.
        • Billy was in a coma for "6 weeks" so he woke around January 27, 2017. This means the scene with Krista was late July 2017, so she started working with him no later than July 2017, and she's been working with him for "months" so it's now no later than "months" after July 2017.
      • Frank locks "Rachel" in her room so she can't escape in the night, then heads out. She falls asleep but has a nightmare about her friends' murder.
      • Frank visits Curtis to talk about Billy. Curtis says that he thinks Billy isn't lying about his memory loss, and suggests that Billy might be going to settle a score somewhere.
      • Billy goes to the spot where he and Frank watched the game.

      Day A5 [Wednesday, if not Tuesday]

      • "Rachel" wakes and finds the door locked. She panics and Frank unlocks it for her, but she gets angry at him for locking it.
      • Billy goes to the paeodphile from his youth, Arthur's house.
      • "Rachel" tells Frank about her friends' deaths. She thinks she doesn't understand what it's like to lose everyone and is being apathetic.
      • 08:30 - Billy talks to Arthur about the home being demolished. Arthur says it's a shame Billy isn't as pretty as he used to be.
      • Morning - Frank tells Madani about Arthur Walsh. Mahoney visits and he and "Rachel" have to hide. Mahoney asks if Madani stole Billy's journal, explaining a story of how he once became too obsessed with a girlfriend. He notices there being two bowls, but assumed Madani just has a boyfriend and leaves. Frank goes to shower.
      • Arthur complains about going to prison and about Billy not being willing to "love" him back. He starts taunting Billy about his face, angering Billy.
      • Pretending to be looking to buy a laptop, "Rachel" uses the chance to look up Pete and finds out he is Frank Castle, the Punisher, and that his family were killed.
      • Madani gets to Arthur's house but only finds his dead body. Mahoney surprises her and she shoots him, luckily only getting him in his bulletproof vest.
      • "Rachel" gets back and tells Frank she knows who he is and what he did. She tells him her real name is Amy.
      • Billy gets to Krista's door, covered in blood and asking for help. He tells her he followed her home. She lets him in to clean up.
      • Billy walks in on Krista as she is considering calling the police. He asks that she doesn't and just helps him.

      [Episode 5 - One-Eyed Jacks]

      • Frank and Amy play one-eyed jacks. She explains that to win, he needs to not play.
      • Frank goes to see Turk.
        • "7 19" registration sticker.
      • Dinah has a nightmare of Billy arriving in her apartment.

      Day A6 [Thursday, if not Wednesday]

      • Krista wakes Billy and gets him to calm down.
      • Morning - Madani gets back and tells Frank Russo killed Arthur.
        • Madani gives Frank 24 hours to leave the town, which could become relevant.
      • Pilgrim whips himself.
      • Anderson sends Pilgrim to New York.
      • Amy uses Madani's makeup. Frank waits for Turk. Amy wears Madani's clothes. Frank waits outside the gym. Amy uses Madani's card to buy food and clothes. (Avengers Tower is missing from the skyline again, but as we know, that's not a timeline thing it's just a mistake.)
        • "3 19" registration sticker.
        • Don't think the receipts have dates but should check just in case. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (20:44 - 1:00) = 19:44 of about (51:21 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 48:11, so should look about 41.0% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Turk goes in asking for Konchevsky but Kazan's men grab him.
      • Billy says he envies Krista remembering the things she struggles with.
      • Frank gets back and finds that Amy has bought pizza. Turk calls him but he knows he's lying.
        • Arranging to meet at 5 o'clock, which could become relevant.
      • Pilgrim tells Rebecca he has to go again. She says she wants him to be the last thing she sees.
      • Billy overhears one of Krista's meetings, with a man called Jake.
        • Jake is attending a meeting immediately after this, which could become relevant.
      • Madani goes to see Curtis. He asks her to stay for his meeting.
      • Curtis holds a meeting. Jake is reluctant to accept Madani, but she tells him what she has been through.
      • Madani talks to Curtis after the meeting about Billy.
      • Frank takes the tape off his hand but finds it swollen.
      • Frank gets to the gym.
      • Billy goes to a bar following Jake. They start drinking together.
      • 17:00 - Men wait at Turk's shop for Frank. Frank enters the gym and Kazan has a man try to kill him, but Frank wins.
      • Jake and Billy get to know each other.
      • Krista struggles with vertigo at her window.
      • Frank gets back to Madani's apartment and tells Amy that he got the name Nikolai Poloznev.
        • The Wikipedia page has some dates but I don't see anything after 2016. Still worth checking and reading properly what it all says. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (47:01 - 1:00) = 46:01 of about (51:21 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 48:11, so should look about 95.5% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Frank and Amy leave Madani's apartment.
      • Madani gets back and finds them gone.
      • Pilgrim kills Kazan and the rest at the gym.

      Day A7 [Friday, if not Thursday]
      [Episode 6 - Nakazat]

      • Frank and Amy go to a creep who sorts paeodphilic photos. Amy gets them let in.
      • Amy develops the photos and Frank beats the man.
      • Amy convinces Frank to let the man go, but they burn the place down before they leave.
      • Delia and Curtis wake. Curtis leaves.
        • Curtis has the room for a week, which could become relevant.
      • Curtis gives out food and gives Jimbo glasses.
        • Leaflets might have dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (07:42 - 1:00) = 06:42 of about (56:48 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 53:38, so should look about 12.5% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Billy watches Krista get dressed.
      • Amy calls a man called Deb and gets him to tell her Mr. Poloznev's breakfast time.
      • Morning - Amy and Frank watch Poloznev go in for breakfast.
      • Amy and Frank wait outside the college and discuss Lisa.
      • Billy and Krista discuss him talking to Jake. She asks that he make sure he doesn't get caught if he goes out again.

      Day B1 (Seemingly same day. 50% eliminated.)

      • Frank teaches Amy how to get hold of a gun, teaches her to pull the trigger on anyone trying to shoot her.

      Day C1 (Seemingly same day. 50% eliminated.)

      • Billy works out then finds his own file in Krista's drawers.
        • Billy's file might have a date. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (21:23 - 1:00) = 20:23 of about (56:48 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 53:38, so should look about 38.0% through the gallery when it comes out.

      Day D1 (Seemingly same day. 50% eliminated.)

      • Billy finds Curtis and asks who scarred him, but Curtis claims not to know.

      Day D2

        • 2,6 flashback: John reads a Bible from Rebecca earlier. He looks at Madani and Castle's files.
      • John Pilgrim sits in a diner in New York.
      • Mahoney confronts Madani about the fact that he has worked out Frank Castle was at the carousel.
      • Frank pretends to be homeless, getting to Poloznev's car, then knocks out the driver.
      • Amy confronts Poloznev with the photo from the funeral. He gets in his car, but as his chauffeur goes to get in, Frank knocks him out. Amy changes into a school skirt to avoid Poloznev's men. Poloznev finds Frank in the driver seat.
      • John Pilgrim follows Madani from the diner. She notices him and pulls a gun on him. He remains calm as she takes his photo but realises she cannot arrest him. She runs back to the diner to get DNA.
      • Frank takes Poloznev to the waterfront. Poloznev explains about David Schultz and blackmailing the Schultzes. Frank prepares to kill him, but lets him go because of his daughter.
      • Billy meets with a group of veterans in the bar, Jake and his friends.
      • 21:14 - Madani goes to forensics to get the DNA from the diner analysed.
      • Jimbo gets his car towed. He tells the other veterans and Billy leads the group in stopping and attacking the driver. He encourages Jimbo to drive to Texas.
      • Frank upsets Amy. She gets up to leave and he takes it back.
      • Jimbo sits in a police station, having got caught. He tells Curtis what happened, including about Billy.
        • More leaflets which could have dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (46:52 - 1:00) = 45:52 of about (56:48 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 53:38, so should look about 85.5% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • John Pilgrim kills Poloznev and his men.
      • Mahoney subpoenas Krista for her records on Billy.
        • Subpoena could have dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (48:36 - 1:00) = 47:36 of about (56:48 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 53:38, so should look about 88.8% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Billy angrily asks Krista if he's just another expendable patient of hers. He attacks her, but she stabs him in the hand with a letter opener. However, they end up kissing.
      • Curtis brings Frank and Dinah to see him and says he knows what Billy is doing. Frank says he will end it his way.
        • Frank says that in the last few days he has let men live that he should've killed.

      [Episode 7 - One Bad Day]

        • "One year ago". This would suggest it is only a year since Season 1 in present day, but this can work fine with it being Spring 2018, if this is early January 2017, a couple of weeks after the end of Season 1.
      • 22:45 - Frank thinks Madani wants him to convince her it's OK to kill Billy, buts he insists she doesn't. Curtis says he knows someone who will know where Billy is.
            • Curtis' watch says 10:45, would be PM. It's clearer and works better than 23:15, so overrules it.

      Day E1 (Seemingly next day. 87.5% eliminated.)

      • 06:30 - Madani wakes. She has disturbing recollections of Billy.

      Day F1 (Seemingly same day. 87.5% eliminated.)

      • Krista and Billy have sex. Billy asks her about her back scar, and she says she had a fall when she was young.

      Day G1 (Seemingly same day. 93.75% eliminated.)

      • Krista puts in her earrings.

      Day H1 (Seemingly same day. 93.75% eliminated.)

      • Billy explains he's feeling better but is upset about what he has thrown away. He says he wants to head out to spend time with his guys, which is also helping him, but Krista asks him not to. However, he has taken her gun which she goes to threaten him with, and he leaves nonetheless. She gets vertigo looking out at him from the window.

      Day I1 (Seemingly same day. 75% eliminated.)

      • The analysis woman reports back to Madani that they can find no one matching the man's DNA. She talks too much, acting a bit weird.
        • Files could have dates. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (18:37 - 1:00) = 17:37 of about (51:49 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 48:39, so should look about 36.2% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • Madani's encounter with Pilgrim was "that morning", implying not just yesterday but multiple days ago.

      Day J1 (Seemingly same day. 75% eliminated.)

      • Frank and Curtis go to Jake's apartment, but he's not there. They find that he takes drugs.

      Day K1 (Seemingly same day. 90.625% eliminated.) [Thursday]

      • Billy and his group practice for the bank robbery they will be performing. They then decide to get some sleep.
        • The robbery will be "9AM tomorrow", and again, "tomorrow".
      • Curtis and Frank sit in a car, waiting. Frank tells Curtis about Beth.
      • Jake sneaks out in the night.

      Day K2 [Friday]

      • Morning - Madani meets with Marion James for advice.
        • Madani says that their "s**t", the problem of Billy and Frank, is still around, and, "It's been a year, and I'm still trying." It's unclear which moment exactly she's referring to, it's one of: since her actions got Sam Stein killed, since she found out Billy was playing her, since they took down Billy, since Marion spoke to her in the "one year ago" flashback from this episode, since Billy woke up. I think she's probably referring to the flashback from this episode, because that was when Marion told her to try to learn to be OK with lying and moving on, and she's saying it's been a year and is still trying. In that case, this is the same as the prologue in that it suggests this is about a year after Season 1, but works reasonably with this being Spring 2018 because it can be very early 2017.
      • Billy and Frank kidnap Jake.
      • Frank interrogates Jake, but gets violent, stabbing him in the hand.
      • Madani tells Frank to calm down. Curtis helps Jake and tells him why he needs to give up Billy.
      • Frank returns and Jake gives them the information.
        • "Right after the truck makes the Friday drop, we're gonna rob the place." This is in the coming hours, meaning it is currently Friday.
      • Once Frank has the information he needs, he heads out with Billy. Madani wants him to stop, but he ignores her.
        • "1 19" registration sticker, works fine.
      • Frank and Billy go to catch Billy and his crew, but just miss them as they drive to the bank.
        • Registration sticker, can't make it out. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (40:47 - 1:00) = 39:47 of about (51:49 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 48:39, so should look about 81.8% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • 09:00 - Billy and his crew break into the bank and threaten the woman at the counter, Lillian. She is stubborn, refusing to open the doors to the safes for him even when he threatens her with a grenade. However, another employee eventually opens the door in fear.
        • The Friday drop arrive as mentioned, so this is Friday.
        • Calendar shows a month with Mondays on 7th/14th/21st/28th, which only occurred in the time since October 2017 (Marvel's Daredevil: Season 3) in May 2018 and January 2019. It is a 31-day month, but that doesn't narrow it down as both are 31 days. However, there is a public holiday marked on the 13th and the 28th, which matches with May 2018 - Mothers' Day and Memorial Day. May 2018 makes more sense anyway, due to time of filming and just over a year since Season 1. So, this calendar would place it in May 2018. It's shown fairly closely. That would mean this is Friday 4th, 11th, 18th, or 25th.
        • Boxes and files behind the employees say "2018", as in the current files they are using are "2018", clearly affirming the current year.
      • Frank heads out of the car, putting on Jake's mask.
      • Frank approaches Billy, who thinks it's Jake. He then takes off the mask, shouting at Billy, and Billy begins to panic, seeing Frank again and the vest with the skull he's had nightmares of. Billy's men begin shooting at Frank, who kills some of them, but Billy is stunned. His men get him into a car to drive him away, and Frank takes a car to follow.
        • "1 19" registration, again works fine.

      [Episode 8 - My Brother's Keeper]

      • Billy is tormented. One of his men continues to shoot at Frank, but he gets away. Billy has Jose stop the car so he can go after Frank. Curtis takes out Billy's sniper. Frank gets to Billy and gets out of the car, and when Billy asks if he was the one to scar him, Frank readily admits it. Billy angrily fires at him, but Frank hides. Curtis tries to get a shot on Billy but can't take it. The police arrive, including Mahoney, and Frank has to run away. Mahoney goes after him. Billy's men arrive and start shooting, allowing Billy the cover to get into the car, and they drive away. Frank continues to run.
        • There's a banner up for some event "APRIL 18-20", but it could have just been left up a bit after the event, that sort of thing happens often. In fact, there are set photos of this sequence being filmed from late May, so assuming that shot wasn't filmed like 6 weeks prior for some reason, yeah, there's real life precedent for the banner being left up because this exact one was, it was still up 6 weeks later when they filmed it.
        • I think the car Frank is in has a "9 19" registration, which works fine.
        • I think the car next to Billy has a "19" registration but can't make out the month. Waiting for HD screencap, at about 02:57 of about (48:53 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 45:43, so should look about 6.5% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • Mahoney catches Frank but Curtis helps him get away.
      • Billy's crew get back to the warehouse, where Bobby complains that they nearly got busted because of him. Anton Reed, the guy who gave in at the bank, is in fact an inside man, and says they should just split the money, but Billy shoots him and Bobby for having a problem with him.
        • Car has a "4 19" registration, which works fine.
      • Curtis worries about having shot at an officer, thinking that they will identify him easily. Frank jokes with him and says that he should have stayed in the car, but Curtis says he had to stop the man about to snipe Frank. Frank explains that he thinks Billy genuinely doesn't know what he did, so when he had the available shot, he ended up freezing.
      • Billy goes back to Krista, upset about having found out his friend Frank was the one who scarred him.
      • Amy is bored in the caravan.
      • Delia texts Curtis, annoyed at his lies and him not meeting with her as arranged.
      • Mahoney inspects Anton Reed's dead body. Frank watches on from above.
        • Date on Reed's ID, presumably expiry date, is "11/2018". That works fine assuming it is the expiry date, which is the most likely scenario.
      • Frank tells Curtis about Reed being shot. Curtis explains that he had a shot and if he'd taken it, Reed might be alive. He says he's upset that he's been dragged back in to fighting and killing, and that Delia thinks badly of him.
      • Amy decides to surprise Frank and practice the gun move, but it goes down very badly, with him getting angry at her for nearly getting herself killed by him.
        • Curtis' car has a "3 19" sticker.
      • Mahoney goes back to Madani, asking how she knew about the robbery. He asks her where Castle and his friend are, and she says she doesn't know, but Mahoney demands that she use her contact with him to find out, and then give him up.
      • Billy sits with Krista, talking about why he's upset about Frank. Krista tells him he is wrong to think that he was better off not knowing, as now he can face his pain.
      • Frank is brutal with Jake as he questions him on where Billy is and Curtis has to intervene to tell him to stop. He worries that he is being like Billy.
      • Frank goes for a walk in the storm.
        • Empire State Building is lit up yellow.
      • 22:55 - Billy gets angry with Krista, saying she knew about Frank. She calms him down, assuring him she loves him.
      • Amy cooks. Curtis goes to the caravan site and Amy shoots as Frank told her to, almost getting him. He tells her he doesn't know where Frank is. She lets him in and offers food.
      • Billy meets with the group and tells them they deserve to go for more.
      • Curtis and Amy eat spaghetti. Someone arrives at the door and they are worried, but it's Madani. They let her in and she explains that she met the man after Amy, but couldn't arrest him. She says that she tracked Curtis because he left his phone on, and Amy burns his SIM. They sit to drink.
      • Frank visits his family's graves, while Madani, Curtis, and Amy drink together and Madani explains about having to give Frank up, not sure if she will or not.

      Day K3 [Saturday]
      [Episode 9 - Flustercluck]

      • Frank goes back to the caravan. He tells the group he wants them to let him be what he's meant to be.
        • Amy says last night was "Friday night", which matches with Billy's crew discussing the robbery being Friday.

      Day L1 (Seemingly same day. 25% eliminated (later essentially eliminated, so essentially Day K3 [Saturday]).)

        • 2,9 flashback: Billy and Krista have sex again and discuss future plans.
      • Billy's crew shoot people and raid places for hundreds of thousands of dollars of contraband.
        • Three raids in the last 24 hours. At the very earliest, they performed their first raid late at night after Billy told them they should try for more, so to be talking about the last 24 hours, this should really be at least 18 or so hours later, so at the very least this is late afternoon the day after the robbery, should really be at least the day after that though.
        • One of the men is planning something for 2 months' time, it's not really clear.

      Day M1 (Seemingly same day. 81.25% eliminated (later essentially eliminated, so essentially Day K3 [Saturday]).)

      • Night - Moke is too handsy with one of the women during a party at "Valhalla".

      Day N1 (Seemingly same day. 62.5% eliminated (later essentially defined as 1 day, so essentially Day K4 [Sunday]).) [Sunday]

      • Anderson Schultz has Pilgrim meet with him while he is golfing. He tells him to reach out to his old contacts and put a bounty on Castle and Amy.
      • Amy and Curtis work out roughly where Billy's base is. Having tapped into his radio system, they inform Frank about a guy waiting to attack.
      • Frank attacks the guy, Moke, and ends up killing him. He unlocks his phone and finds a photo of a woman with a T-shirt from the bar she works at.
        • Phone calendar says "13", possibly "Wednesday 13". "Wednesday 13" would make it June 13th but the beginning of the episode was seemingly at the latest Saturday May 26th, and it's highly unlikely that a few weeks have passed since the beginning of the episode. But "13" could work really nicely, as the beginning of the episode was the day after a Friday in May, if the calendar is to be believed, so it could be Saturday May 12th, and then with the news about Billy's crew suggesting it's probably been another day, it does seem like this would be the Sunday, which would nicely match as the 13th. While it would probably have to be ignored anyway, it would still be good to know for sure what day of the week it says. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (13:11 - 1:00) = 12:11 of about (57:52 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 54:42, so should look about 22.3% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • David Schultz meets with his father for golfing. His father still expresses disapproval in his son's homosexuality.
        • Anderson wants David to come home for a "couple of weeks", which could become relevant.
      • Pilgrim goes to a man called Danny to put out the word that there's a prize on Frank and Amy, wanted alive. Danny calls his father to report having seen Pilgrim after all these years.
      • 13:38 - Amy and Curtis talk. Amy says she always wanted to do marine salvage. Curtis wishes Frank would let them know what's happening, and Amy says Frank is selfish. Curtis decides that this is true and it is more important that he make sure he meets with his group, and leaves Amy. She decides to run away on her own.
        • Curtis' watch says it's 1:38(PM). Looking at what this means for how many days it now has to have been since the day of the robbery (end of Episode 7 and all of Episode 8), there's three factors: 1 - When did Billy and his crew perform their first attack?; 2 - How long after the first robbery is that news report about the last 24 hours?; 3 - Is Curtis' watch to be taken as the true time (i.e. do we ignore the watch?)? It's likely that Billy's crew did not perform their first attack until at least the next day. It's likely that the report is coming almost 24 hours after that first attack. And ideally, the watch is reliable. 1 can be "at least next day" or "the same night (a stretch)", 2 can be "almost 24 hours", "maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch)", or "maximum 12ish hours (a stretch)". 3 can be "yes" or "no (a stretch)".
          There are twelve combinations here, which I'll go through. Using the approximate system (just to give a sense of proportion), "at least next day":"the same night" 1:0.5, so 0.66667 and 0.33333 respectively, "almost 24 hours":"maximum 17ish hours":"maximum 12ish hours" 1:0.75:0.5, so 0.44444, 0.33333, and 0.22222 respectively, "yes":"no" 1:0.5, so 0.66667 and 0.33333 respectively.
          Option 1: 1 - at least next day, 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning/early afternoon, the report is almost 24 hours later, and this scene is a bit after that at 1:38PM", meaning it's now at least the 2nd day after the robbery. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.44444 × 0.66667 = 0.19753.
          Option 2: 1 - at least next day, 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.44444 × 0.33333 = 0.09877.
          Option 3: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - yes. It is not necessary to reduce 2 to 17ish in these circumstances for 1 and 3, however, so this gives the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.33333 × 0.66667 = 0.14815.
          Option 4: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). This can be minimised as "they first attacked the next day, the news report is the following day, and this is later that day", but in that case it means it is at least the 2nd day after the robbery anyway, so you might as well set all three to their ideal and get the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.33333 × 0.33333 = 0.07407.
          Option 5: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning right after dawn, the report is that evening, and this has to be the day after that because it's 1:38PM", but in that case it means it is at least the 2nd day after the robbery anyway, so you might as well set all three to their ideal and get the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.22222 × 0.66667 = 0.09877.
          Option 6: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning right after dawn, the report is that evening, and this is very shortly after, not long before sunset, with Curtis' watch being ignored", meaning it's just about only the day after the robbery. 1 + days, chance 0.66667 × 0.22222 × 0.33333 = 0.04938.
          Option 7: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - yes. This is impossible, because it would mean the report is in the night but it's daytime, so 1 has to be pushed to "at least next day", giving the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.44444 × 0.66667 = 0.09877.
          Option 8: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - no (a stretch). This is impossible, because it would mean the report is in the night but it's daytime, so 1 has to be pushed to "at least next day", giving the same as Option 2. 2 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.44444 × 0.33333 = 0.04938.
          Option 9: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked that night, the report is almost 17ish hours later, and this has to be at least the day after because it's 1:38PM", but in that case it means it is at least the 2nd day after the robbery anyway, so you might as well set all three to their ideal and get the same as Option 1. 2 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.33333 × 0.66667 = 0.07407.
          Option 10: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). This can be minimised as "they first attacked that night, the report is almost 17ish hours later, and this is right after in the early evening", meaning it is just about still the day after the robbery. 1 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.33333 × 0.33333 = 0.03704.
          Option 11: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked that night, the report is almost 12ish hours later, and this is right after that at 1:38PM" meaning it is just about still the day after the robbery. 1 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.22222 × 0.66667 = 0.04938.
          Option 12: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 11. 1 + days, chance 0.33333 × 0.22222 × 0.33333 = 0.02469.
          So overall, there's roughly a 0.19753 + 0.09877 + 0.14815 + 0.07407 + 0.09877 + 0.09877 + 0.04938 + 0.07407 = 0.83951 chance that it's been at least 2 days at this point, with only 0.04938 + 0.03704 + 0.04938 + 0.02469 = 0.16049, a very slim chance based on a lot of stretching, of it working as still being just the next day. So yes, it's possible, but it's very unlikely that it's not at least the second day at this point.
      • Billy looks around Madani's apartment, having broken in, and finds his diary.
      • Frank goes to the bartender and she gives him the rough location of "Valhalla".
        • "It was dark" when the bartender went to and left "Valhalla". This means that MTP 2,9 c should have an "at least next day", with the "Valhalla" scene being nighttime and the following scene, with Anderson Schultz, being daytime.
        • This "it was dark" makes a difference to the previous discussion of the options of how many days it has at least been in the scene with Curtis' watch since the day of the robbery.
          Option 1: 1 - at least next day, 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning/early afternoon, the report is almost 24 hours later, then there's the "Valhalla" scene at night followed by a new day, and this scene is then at 1:38PM", meaning it's now at least the 3rd day after the robbery. 3 + days, chance 0.19753.
          Option 2: 1 - at least next day, 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 1. 3 + days, chance 0.09877.
          Option 3: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - yes. It is not necessary to reduce 2 to 17ish in these circumstances for 1 and 3, however, so this gives the same as Option 1. 3 + days, chance 0.14815.
          Option 4: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). This can be minimised as "they first attacked the next day, the news report is the following day, then there's the "Valhalla" scene at night followed by a new day, and this is that day", but in that case it means it is at least the 3rd day after the robbery anyway, so you might as well set all three to their ideal and get the same as Option 1. 3 + days, chance 0.07407.
          Option 5: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked the following morning right after dawn, the report is that evening, then there's the "Valhalla" scene at night followed by a new day, and then this is 1:38PM that day", so this is at least the 2nd day after the robbery. 2 + days, chance 0.09877.
          Option 6: 1 - at least next day, 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 5. 2 + days, chance 0.04938.
          Option 7: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - yes. This is impossible, because it would mean the report is in the night but it's daytime, so 1 has to be pushed to "at least next day", giving the same as Option 1. 3 + days, chance 0.09877.
          Option 8: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - almost 24 hours, 3 - no (a stretch). This is impossible, because it would mean the report is in the night but it's daytime, so 1 has to be pushed to "at least next day", giving the same as Option 2. 3 + days, chance 0.04938.
          Option 9: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - yes. This can be minimised as "they first attacked that night, the report is almost 17ish hours later, then there's the "Valhalla" scene at night followed by a new day, and then this is 1:38PM that day", meaning it is just about still only the 2nd day after the robbery. 2 + days, chance 0.07407.
          Option 10: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 17ish hours (a bit of a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 9. 2 + days, chance 0.03704.
          Option 11: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - yes. It is not necessary to reduce 2 to 12ish in these circumstances for 1 and 3, however, so this can be set to 17ish, which gives the same as Option 9. 2 + days, chance 0.04938.
          Option 12: 1 - the same night (a stretch), 2 - maximum 12ish hours (a stretch), 3 - no (a stretch). It is not necessary to reject 3 in these circumstances for 1 and 2, however, so this gives the same as Option 11. 2 + days, chance 0.02469.
          So overall, there's roughly a 0.19753 + 0.09877 + 0.14815 + 0.07407 + 0.09877 + 0.04938 = 0.66667 chance that it's been at least 3 days at this point, with only 0.09877 + 0.04938 + 0.07407 + 0.03704 + 0.04938 + 0.02469 = 0.33333, a slim chance based more stretching, of it working as still being just 2 days later. 2 days later would be ideal though as it fits with the "13", so if no further information comes up, assumptions will have to be made for it to only be the 2nd day - the most likely being the 0.09877: they first attacked right after dawn, it's the evening report about 12 hours later, and then the Curtis scene is the next afternoon.
        • The bartender's comments would support the idea that the "Valhalla" scene is at least the 2nd night after the night following the robbery, because she speaks like they went due to its reputation. However, her words don't have to mean that. She says it sounded like it could be fun, so they went along, which could easily just be the first night, and her mentioning the fact that they party at "Valhalla" through the night (implying most nights, implying multiple nights) could be a separate point about how they do it regularly, and they just happened to o on the first night. We know it has to be a couple of days since the night after the robbery, so that works fine.
      • Frank is followed outside by six men. However, he hides and then corners them. They think they have the upper hand, outnumbering him, but he shoots them all and threatens the leader, saying they need to talk.
      • Dinah gets back to her apartment and finds Billy. She tries to get her backup gun, but he's taken it. He taunts her and asks about Frank, before leaving.
        • Dinah spent "a year of [her] life" coming to see him in his hospital bed, which works reasonably, since he would have woken up 16 months/1 calendar year ago.
      • Amy gets to Shan's apartment and gives her money to help her escape.
      • Curtis' veterans confront him about what he did to Jake, but he explains about Billy, and they agree to help find him.
      • Frank gets back to the caravan and finds Amy gone. He calls Curtis to ask if she is with him, and he explains having left her. Frank tells him about the contract and Curtis realises his mistake.
      • Frank repeatedly calls Amy until she eventually picks up. He begs her to come back and warns her about the contract, saying that she needs to think about just how much she trusts the friend she's staying with.
      • Billy talks to Krista about Frank having ruined his life, questioning how someone who had been like family could do that to himself. He admits he went to Madani, but tells Krista he felt nothing for her. Krista says that Frank's actions have given them a new opportunity, but Billy says he wants Frank to suffer.
      • Pilgrim takes a call from Danny telling him they have someone who knows where Frank and Amy are, and that he should meet him at his restaurant.
      • One of Curtis' veterans pretends to be a drunk homeless man, getting up to the fence of the warehouse Billy's crew are staying in to spy on them.
      • Madani gets a call from Krista.
      • Amy becomes suspicious and texts Frank Shan's address.
      • Shan takes the men coming for Amy to the apartment, but Amy is gone. Amy, meanwhile, runs to hide. Frank arrives and some of the men go to deal with him, as one man finds Amy in a closet, holding a gun to her. Frank kills his way up the stairs. Frank shouts up to the man, threatening to kill him if he hurts Amy. He turns his head to respond and Amy uses the opportunity to grab his gun and shoot him. She then panics about shooting him, but Frank shoots him to finish him off, assuring her she wasn't the one to kill him and that his death does not deserve to upset her.
      • Amy kicks Shan in the crotch before leaving.
      • 22:27 - Madani meets with Krista and tells her about Frank.
        • It's been "weeks" since Billy escaped. It's seemingly been only 9-10 days, but depends on the gaps MTP 2,6 f, g, and h, MTP 2,7 a, b, c, d, e, f, and g, and MTP 2,9 a, b, c, and k.
      • Pilgrim goes to Danny's restaurant, but finds Kusack, who led the white supremacist gang he used to be part of, and is Danny's son. He asks what happened 12 years ago when John disappeared, and John explains he got arrested after a fight where a man died, but then a man saved him and made him realise God had a plan for him. Kusack says he needs to punish Pilgrim, whom he calls Robert, and prepares to beat him to death.
        • Now the "weeks" comment depends on the gaps MTP 2,6 f, g, and h, MTP 2,7 a, b, c, d, e, f, and g, and MTP 2,9 a, b, and c.
      • Amy says she cannot understand how Frank feels OK with killing people, and says everything is just a "flustercluck", which makes Frank laugh.

      [Episode 10 - The Dark Hearts of Men]

        • 2,10 flashback (thread 1): 22:28 - 24 hours earlier, Madani talks with Krista over wine. Krista encourages her to share about Frank and Billy.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 1): Kusack sets his men on Pilgrim, but he fights back and kills the men. Kusack goes to kill him himself, but he takes one man's knuckledusters and beats Kusack to death. Danny tries to run but he shoots him. He takes the alcohol and gun.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 1): Madani explains to Krista why she believes Frank has a code.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 1): Krista explains that she likes doing her job because every living thing deserves saving, but Madani disagrees.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 1): Krista explains that being happy is not in human nature, and that they all have personal hells.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 1): Madani leaves Krista's and Billy comes out to speak to her. She tells him she thinks she knows what they can do to break Frank mentally.

      Day N2 (essentially confirmed as Day K5 [Monday]) [Monday]

        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Pilgrim, bloodied, sits and drinks, then takes cocaine. He removes teeth from his head, rips his shirt to use as a bandage, and replaces his dislocated jaw.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Frank scouts Billy's warehouse.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Pilgrim doesn't take a call. He goes to a neighbour's room, where there's partying with prostitutes, and threatens the man in the room with his gun.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Frank and Curtis set up on the roof.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Pilgrim talks about shame as he receives oral sex from one of the prostitutes and continues to drink.
      • 22:28 - Frank and Curtis sit on a roof in the rain. Billy spies on them.
      • Frank tells Curtis he never wanted him involved. Frank worries he's like Billy, but Curtis assures him he's different because he cares about people.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Frank and Curtis watch as women arrive at "Valhalla". Frank tells him he wants to know if/when the girls leave so he can go in. Billy continues to watch them.
        • Curtis reckons the women will get drunk by midnight and leave by 2AM, which could become relevant.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): John remembers his early days with Rebecca.

      Day N3 (essentially confirmed as Day K6 [Tuesday]) [Tuesday]

        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Billy arrives at "Valhalla". Frank hides under a truck. Billy enters.
        • "5 19" registration, works fine.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Billy addresses his men, explaining about what Frank has done. Frank continues to wait outside. Billy tells them he needs their help to deal with Frank, who he knows is outside.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Frank advances between trucks until he can ambush one of Billy's guards, then he takes him out.
        • "3 16" registration, but it's an abandoned warehouse so presumably it's just an old abandoned truck.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Billy sends the women home. Curtis watches and sees them leave.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Frank enters a hatch into an underground corridor. Billy waits for him with a gun. Frank advances.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): 02:15 - Curtis sets off the distraction explosions as planned.
        • Curtis' phone definitely has a date, but I can't make it out. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (36:18 - 1:00) = 35:18 of about (47:21 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 44:11, so should look about 79.9% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • 2,10 flashback (thread 2): Frank hears the explosions and goes into "Valhalla" as planned, but is ambushed by Billy's men, with Billy taunting him from nearby.
      • Frank sees masks.
      • Frank is attacked.
      • Frank continues to be attacked.
      • Frank is beaten to the ground, and Billy walks over to him. He crouches over him to claim his victory and tells his men to "break him and then finish him".
      • Two men go after Curtis.
      • Frank is stabbed, but kicks the legs from underneath a man and pulls the knife out to use for himself. He gets to his feet and stabs and shoots his attackers, killing them all.
      • 02:35 - Curtis is attacked by the men and shoots at them, not wanting to kill them, but threatening them to make them leave. He gets one man, Philip, in the leg, and goes to help him as he worries he might have just given him a fatal injury, using his belt to try to stop the bleeding.
        • 2,11 flashback: Billy kills the women to trick Frank.
      • Frank catches up with Billy in the main area of the warehouse, continuing to kill his men. Billy runs upstairs to get away and Frank shoots after him, but when he follows up to the room, he finds innocent women dead, riddled with bullets, and breaks down with the belief that his recklessness has led him to kill innocent bystanders.
      • Curtis tries to get Philip to stay with him, but he dies.
      • Frank continues to break down, falling to his knees. He calls out in fury for Billy, but the police arrive and he has to hand himself over.

      [Episode 11 - The Abyss]

      • Frank is driven to the hospital.
      • Frank is worked on at hospital.
      • Curtis goes to the caravan and tells Amy what happened. He struggles with having killed a man, and says not to try to rescue Frank. He goes to shower.
      • John calls his home and Eliza picks up. She says Rebecca is resting, but she has in fact died.
      • Karen visits Frank in hospital.
        • Karen is working with Nelson and Murdock, so this is after Marvel's Daredevil: Season 3.
      • Curtis gets back from his shower and finds Amy gone.
      • Frank wakes and tells Karen what he thinks he has done.
      • Morning - Madani arrives at the "Valhalla" crime scene and asks Mahoney to let her deal with Billy.
      • Frank wakes from his old nightmare again and tells Karen again about the struggle of getting over his family's deaths, how he can't remember their laughs and can just remember the looks on their faces as they died, explaining that he wonders what the looks on the women's faces were.
      • Amy steals a nurse's uniform and ID.
        • The ID is valid "01/18"-"01/20", which works fine.
      • Amy gets into the ward and tries to get Frank out, but he wants to stay. Madani arrives and Billy calls her to taunt Frank.
      • Billy sits to talk with Krista, and explains that he feels slightly hollow after beating Frank. He asks how she feels about planning with him to have the women killed to make Frank believe he has killed innocent people, worried that one day she will blame him and accuse him of manipulating her to the point where she planned murder. She says she did it for her love of him, but that they need to leave.
      • Amy leaves Frank's ward.
      • Madani tells Karen she thinks that Frank might not have killed the women, as things don't add up.
      • Eliza arrives and tells John about Rebecca's death last night.
      • Karen takes Madani to see Ed at the morgue. She agrees to give him a favour in return for letting her and Madani see the bodies.
        • Ed's ID might have a date. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (31:45 - 1:00) = 30:45 of about (54:34 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 51:24, so should look about 59.8% through the gallery when it comes out.
        • The bodies will be moved "first thing tomorrow", which could become relevant.
      • Ed shows them one of the bodies, and they realise the women were executed up-close, meaning it wasn't Frank who killed them.
        • Ed's ID might have a date. Waiting for HD screencap, at about (33:04 - 1:00) = 32:04 of about (54:34 - 1:00 - 2:10) = 51:24, so should look about 62.4% through the gallery when it comes out.
      • The women leave, and Karen does Ed the favour he wanted.
      • Krista tells Billy about how her dad jumped out of a window with her, and that was what gave her her back scar.
        • 2,11 flashback: Eliza tells Pilgrim that Castle being at large is the reason he wasn't with Rebecca, and that he is to blame. She manipulates him, saying this is a case like Abraham where after suffering, John will undergo a test that will give his family health and prosperity in the long run.
      • John furiously trashes his room in grief.
      • A man posing as a police officer takes over Frank's guard duty. He enters, explaining that Frank killed his Irish family, and goes to kill him for the money and revenge. Amy, Karen, and Madani arrive and stop him, worried that Frank was accepting his death, and Karen tells him he didn't do it. They prepare to get him out.
      • The team begin their escape, splitting up. Pilgrim arrives as they make their way out.
      • 19:19 - Madani Frank out in uniform.
      • Ed wears Karen's heels. Mahoney asks Karen where her shoes are, and she says she gave them to a good cause.
      • Mahoney apprehends them as they try to leave, and arrests Frank.
        • Still sunny after 19:19, so between April 1st and September 6th.

      [Episode 12 - Collision Course]

      • Mahoney drives Frank in an ambulance. Madani calls to try to convince him to come back, but he refuses. Pilgrim catches up with them in a police car and rams Mahoney off the road. The ambulance crashes below. Madani arrives, but Pilgrim escapes.
        • "Might just be Tuesday to you," implies it's currently Tuesday.
        • Mahoney plans on arresting Madani later today, which could become relevant.
      • Frank crawls out of the ambulance and knocks his dislocated shoulder back into place. He realises there is a petrol leak and a fire and goes back to save Mahoney, knowing the vehicle will explode. He gets him out, but Mahoney still says he cannot let Frank get away. Ultimately, however, he cannot bring himself to shoot Frank, and Frank leaves.
      • Pilgrim dresses his wounds.
      • Krista watches WJBP-TV's reports from the scene. Billy sees and tells her he is disappointed she was going to keep it from him. He leaves saying he is going to pick up the papers for their escape.
      • Madani speaks with Mahoney at the scene. Krista calls her, but arouses Madani's suspicions.
      • Frank gets to David Schultz's office in his police outfit.
      • Frank attacks Schultz, thinking he is responsible for Pilgrim.
      • Pilgrim arrives at the caravan.
      • Pilgrim enters the caravan and Curtis pretends not to know what he's talking about. However, Amy arrives and gives him away. She shoots at Pilgrim but only gets him in the leg, then runs to a trap door to escape. Curtis and Pilgrim fight, but Pilgrim beats him. However, Amy is seemingly gone.
      • Billy visits his crew and gives them passports with new identities to get away.
        • Some football/soccer game is happening between a team in blue and a team in red, and one of the blue players is being sent off with a red card, but don't know which game.
        • Krista's fake passport is valid "15 Sept 2017" to "15 Sept 2027", which works fine.
      • Frank gets back to the caravan and becomes worried when he sees the open trapdoor. He enters and finds Curtis on the floor, and he explains that she ran. Frank calls her, but finds her phone discarded outside. He gets David Schultz out of the car.
      • Frank sits David down in the caravan.
      • Pilgrim goes back to his room. Amy climbs out of his boot.
      • Frank accuses David of lying, but comes to realise David genuinely is unaware of his parents' actions. David is horrified to find out what they have done. Frank says they're going to call his parents.
      • Pilgrim picks shrapnel out of his leg and Amy approaches his room, shotgun in hand.
      • Madani visits Krista, suspicious of her. She passive aggressively asks about Billy's use of words, and Krista nervously asks to be excused to go to the bathroom.
      • Billy buys flowers for Krista on his way back to her.
      • Madani goes to corner Krista, but Krista has left the bathroom and attacks her from behind with a knife. They get in a fight, wit Krista cutting Madani's face, but Madani throws her out of her window.
      • Billy arrives back and finds Krista on the ground. He looks up to the window and sees Madani.

      [Episode 13 - The Whirlwind]

      • Billy attacks Madani and ends up strangling her.
      • The Schultzes talk about Pilgrim's children. Anderson gets a video call. He thinks it's from David, but it's actually Frank. Anderson threatens Frank, so Frank punches David. He threatens them back before hanging up.
      • Pilgrim hears noise and cautiously approaches the door with a gun, but finds no one. Amy is hiding. The phone rings and Pilgrim finds Lemuel calling. Eliza then takes the phone and tells him to take down Frank.

      Day N4 (essentially confirmed as Day K7 [Wednesday]) [Wednesday]

      • Madani wakes. Mahoney tells her that Krista survived, and that she probably has dealt a fatal wound to Billy considering the amount of blood loss there's evidence for.
      • Curtis gets a call from Amy.
      • Frank meets Amy at the hotel. He goes in after Pilgrim but ends up in the next room. A shootout begins through the walls.
      • Pilgrim manages to capture Amy and says to bring him David, taking Amy away with him.
      • Frank fights guards in the elevator as Pilgrim descends with Amy.
      • Frank reaches the bottom and runs after Pilgrim as he drives with Amy. He jumps onto the bonnet, but Pilgrim swings him off.
      • Billy threatens a doctor to get his bullets sorted, refusing to go to a hospital or go under anaesthetic. The pain, however, causes Billy to pass out. The doctor realises he can take the money and leave.
      • David talks to Curtis, and asks if he really wants to be like this. He says he wants to go home.
      • Billy wakes and finds the doctor left him in a dumpster.
      • Frank gets back and finds David gone. Pilgrim calls and Frank claims to still have David, saying to come to the trailer.
      • Amy tells Pilgrim it's not too late to walk away, but he sadly says that he wishes he could, but can't.
      • Curtis takes David to meet with Mahoney at an American football pitch.
        • Mahoney says, "Last few days, I've learned nothing is easy or simple where Castle is concerned." Should have been about 6 days since the beginning of Episode 8 when they encounter each other, so works.
      • Pilgrim pulls up at the trailer park. He explains that the Schultzes have his sons. Frank convinces him to let Amy go.
      • Once Amy has gone, Frank admits that he doesn't have David and doesn't know where he is. He and Pilgrim fight, both tired and badly injured. Frank eventually beats him, but Pilgrim asks him to make sure his sons aren't hurt. He calls Frank the biblical whirlwind.
      • Curtis gets back from the difficult night and gets a call from Billy, saying he is dying in his basement. He makes Curtis promise not to call the police, and asks that he doesn't have to die alone.
      • Dinah talks to Krista, still in her bloody clothes. Krista says Billy will survive and come for her, but Madani says they'll let her know when they find him dead.
      • Billy hears someone enter and calls out, thinking it's Curtis. However, it's Frank. Billy talks for a while, but when he tries to apologise, Frank finishes him off and walks away.
      • Mahoney talks to Madani and Curtis about Billy's body. He reluctantly agrees to let the story be that Madani just shot Billy five times rather than three.

      Day O1 (Seemingly same day. 75% eliminated.)

      • The Schultzes talk over dinner. Amy enters and says she knocked out the guards, holding a gun to Eliza. When Eliza tries to reach for a knife, Frank shoots her from outside the room. Her blood spills from her head across the table, and Frank enters, showing Anderson that he recorded the video call where Anderson threatened him and indirectly confessed. He gives Anderson the gun and a bullet, saying to either kill himself or choose to live but be exposed.
        • If Anderson chooses to live, they will go to the Bulletin in 24 hours, which could become relevant.
      • As Frank and Amy leave, they hear Anderson kill himself. Pilgrim stands by, reunited with his sons.

      Day P1 (Seemingly next day. 50% eliminated.)

      • Frank and Amy wait in a bus terminal and Frank tells her he helped her because she made him laugh and seemed scared. He gives her money to go to Florida and follow her diving dream. As a bus arrives, he admits she changed his life and they hug. Amy gets onto the bus. She looks back, but Frank is gone.
        • Registration says "2019" "8" "1" "8". I don't know what that meas but presumably it just works fine as the registration ending in 2019.

      Day Q1

      • Frank waits in a car. He gets a call from Madani, who is now in the CIA. Madani offers him a job, but he says he already has one.
        • "Three months later". This would have to be after Avengers: Infinity War, despite Loeb's comments, but this is an acceptable exception.
      • Gangsters meet each other in an arranged location. Neither party understands who arranged it and pull guns on each other, but Frank enters in the Punisher gear, revealing he arranged it and opening rapid fire on all of them.

      Assigning the Dates

      Observations

      • There is no reason why Day L1 and Day M1 should not be Day K3, which they very much seem to be, nor why Day N1 should not be Day K4 and thus N2 K5, N3 K6, and N4 K7. We can group Day K3/L1/M1, Day K4/N1, Day K5/N2, Day K6/N3, and Day K7/N4.
      • There is no reason why Day O1 should have to be separate from Day K7/N4, when they are seemingly the same day. They can simply be grouped as Day K7/N4/O1.
      • There is no reason why Day P1 should have to be separate from Day K7/N4, when it is seemingly the next day. We can group Day K8/N5/O2/P1.
      • Day A7 should be a Friday, if not a Thursday. 2 days seemingly pass, and then it's Day K1, a Thursday. We can take A7 to be a Friday since this is the preferred option anyway and it means adding one less day. So, we now have to add 4 days. Day K4/N1 supposed to be "weeks" after Day A3. Without added gaps, it's 9 days. With this, it's 13 days, which works better. It cannot be stretched a whole extra week to 20 days. So, these 4 days should indeed be added in, making everything except Day Q1 all one group. K1 = A13, and so on.
      • This means that Day K8/N5/O2/P1 = A20, so the main events of the season span 20 days (considering the events essentially begin on Day A0).

      First Pass

      • As established, it works well with all the evidence for Day A16/K4/L2/M2/N1 to be Sunday, May 13, 2018.

      New Observations

      • So, A1 is April 28, 2018.
        • A1 = Saturday, April 28, 2018.
        • A2 = Sunday, April 29, 2018.
        • A3 = Monday, April 30, 2018.
        • A4 = Tuesday, May 1, 2018.
        • A5 = Wednesday, May 2, 2018.
        • A6 = Thursday, May 3, 2018.
        • A7 = Friday, May 4, 2018.
        • A13/K1 = Thursday, May 10, 2018.
        • A14/K2 = Friday, May 11, 2018.
        • A15/K3/L1/M1 = Saturday, May 12, 2018.
        • A16/K4/L2/M2/N1 = Sunday, May 13, 2018.
        • A17/K5/L3/M3/N2 = Monday, May 14, 2018.
        • A18/K6/L4/M4/N3 = Tuesday, May 15, 2018.
        • A19/K7/L5/M5/N4/O1 = Wednesday, May 16, 2018.
        • A20/K8/L6/M6/N5/O2/P1 = Thursday, May 17, 2018.

      New Breakdown

      • Between A7 and A13/K1, the gaps are A7-B1 50%, B1-C1 50%, C1-D1 50%, D2-E1 87.5%, E1-F1 87.5%, F1-G1 93.75%, G1-H1 93.75%, H1-I1 75%, I1-J1 75%, and J1-K1 90.625%.

      Second Pass

      • 4 ÷ ((100 - 50) + (100 - 50) + (100 - 50) + (100 - 87.5) + (100 - 87.5) + (100 - 93.75) + (100 - 93.75) + (100 - 75) + (100 - 75) + (100 - 90.625)) = 0.01620.
        • A7-B1: (100 - 50) × 0.01620 = 0.81, 1 extra day.
        • B1-C1: (100 - 50) × 0.01620 = 0.81, 1 extra day.
        • C1-D1: (100 - 50) × 0.01620 = 0.81, 1 extra day.
        • D2-E1: (100 - 87.5) × 0.01620 = 0.2025, 0 extra days.
        • E1-F1: (100 - 87.5) × 0.01620 = 0.2025, 0 extra days.
        • F1-G1: (100 - 93.75) × 0.01620 = 0.10125, 0 extra days.
        • G1-H1: (100 - 93.75) × 0.01620 = 0.10125, 0 extra days.
        • H1-I1: (100 - 75) × 0.01620 = 0.405, 0 extra days.
        • I1-J1: (100 - 75) × 0.01620 = 0.405, 0 extra days.
        • J1-K1: (100 - 90.625) × 0.01620 = 0.15188, 0 extra days.
      • This only totals 3 days when rounded. To get it up to 4, we have to multiply all the results up by 1.23457.
        • A7-B1: 0.81 × 1.23457 = 1, 1 extra day.
        • B1-C1: 0.81 × 1.23457 = 1, 1 extra day.
        • C1-D1: 0.81 × 1.23457 = 1, 1 extra day.
        • D2-E1: 0.2025 × 1.23457 = 0.25, 0 extra days.
        • E1-F1: 0.2025 × 1.23457 = 0.25, 0 extra days.
        • F1-G1: 0.10125 × 1.23457 = 0.225, 0 extra days.
        • G1-H1: 0.10125 × 1.23457 = 0.225, 0 extra days.
        • H1-I1: 0.405 × 1.23457 = 0.5, 1 extra day.
        • I1-J1: 0.405 × 1.23457 = 0.5, 1 extra day.
        • J1-K1: 0.15188 × 1.23457 = 0.1875, 0 extra days.
      • Now this is 5 days when rounded. So, there must be a decision made on the marginal ones: H1-I1 and I1-J1. One should be 1 extra day, while one should just be 0. Essentially, should I1 be closer to H1 or J1?
      • It makes more sense for Madani to receive the analysis closer to H1 than J1, so H1-I1 0 extra days, I1-J1 1 extra day.
      • Meanwhile, Day Q1 should be 3 months after May 17, 2018. ([August 17, 2018] × 2 + [August 16, 2018] × 1) ÷ (2 + 1) = August 17, 2018.

      New Observations

      • So, A7 is Friday, May 4, 2018.
      • B1 is seemingly the same day, but A7-B1 1 extra day.
        • B1 = Saturday, May 5, 2018.
      • C1 is seemingly the same day, but B1-C1 1 extra day.
        • C1 = Sunday, May 6, 2018.
      • D1 is seemingly the same day, but C1-D1 1 extra day.
        • D1 = Monday, May 7, 2018.
        • D2 = Tuesday, May 8, 2018.
      • E1 is seemingly the next day, no extras. F1 is seemingly the same day, no extras. G1 is seemingly the same day, no extras. H1 is seemingly the same day, no extras. I1 is seemingly the same day, no extras.
        • E1/F1/G1/H1/I1 = Wednesday, May 9, 2018.
      • J1 is seemingly the same day, but I1-J1 1 extra day.
        • A13/J1/K1 = Thursday, May 10, 2018.
      • Q1 = August 17, 2018.

      Results

      Saturday, April 28, 2018 = A1
      Episode 1 beginning to minute 46ish (beginning to minute 2ish, minute 2ish to minute 45ish flashbacks to the previous 24 hours, minute 45ish to minute 46ish).

      Sunday, April 29, 2018 = A2
      Episode 1 minute 46ish to end. Episode 2 beginning to end. Episode 3 beginning to minute 7ish.

      Monday, April 30, 2018 = A3
      Episode 3 minute 7ish to end.

      Tuesday, May 1, 2018 = A4
      Episode 4 beginning to minute 29ish.

      Wednesday, May 2, 2018 = A5
      Episode 4 minute 29ish to end. Episode 5 beginning to minute 10ish.

      Thursday, May 3, 2018 = A6
      Episode 5 minute 10ish to end.

      Friday, May 4, 2018 = A7
      Episode 6 beginning to minute 17ish.

      Saturday, May 5, 2018 = B1
      Episode 6 minute 17ish to minute 21ish.

      Sunday, May 6, 2018 = C1
      Episode 6 minute 21ish to minute 22ish.

      Monday, May 7, 2018 = D1
      Episode 6 minute 22ish to minute 26ish.

      Tuesday, May 8, 2018 = D2
      Episode 6 minute 26ish to end. Episode 7 beginning to minute 9ish.

      Wednesday, May 9, 2018 = E1 + F1 + G1 + H1 + I1
      Episode 7 minute 9ish to minute 21ish.

      Thursday, May 10, 2018 = J1 + K1
      Episode 7 minute 21ish to minute 28ish.

      Friday, May 11, 2018 = K2
      Episode 7 minute 28ish to end. Episode 8 beginning to end.

      Saturday, May 12, 2018 = K3 + L1 + M1
      Episode 9 beginning to minute 10ish.

      Sunday, May 13, 2018 = N1
      Episode 9 minute 10ish to end.

      Monday, May 14, 2018 = N2
      Episode 10 beginning to minute 9ish.

      Tuesday, May 15, 2018 = N3
      Episode 10 minute 9ish to end. Episode 11 beginning to end. Episode 12 beginning to end. Episode 13 beginning to minute 9ish.

      Wednesday, May 16, 2018 = N4 + O1
      Episode 13 minute 9ish to minute 49ish.

      Thursday, May 17, 2018 = P1
      Episode 13 minute 49ish to minute 53ish.

      Friday, August 17, 2018 = Q1
      Episode 13 minute 53ish to end.

        Loading editor
    • Question, now that we were discussing the page of deleted scenes, it made me think of something; do we have an official stance towards deleted scenes when it comes to the timeline? Are they canon until contradicted, or are they not canon at all due to being deleted scenes?

      We have seen cases in both The Avengers and Inside Voices where deleted scenes were brought into canon (Bruce mentions putting a bullet in his mouth, which we see in the deleted alternate opening, while a deleted scene from Beginning of the End was repurposed for Inside Voices).

        Loading editor
    • Deleted Scenes (Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Question, now that we were discussing the page of deleted scenes, it made me think of something; do we have an official stance towards deleted scenes when it comes to the timeline? Are they canon until contradicted, or are they not canon at all due to being deleted scenes?

      We have seen cases in both The Avengers and Inside Voices where deleted scenes were brought into canon (Bruce mentions putting a bullet in his mouth, which we see in the deleted alternate opening, while a deleted scene from Beginning of the End was repurposed for Inside Voices).

      My stance, at least, is that they are in the "inspired canon" camp, along with the inspired canon comics.

      The "inspired canon" label for those comics is basically defined as: "Content made with the intent of fitting into the MCU, with design and story and everything revolving around the MCU - but not actually official canon. And you can sort of consider them as canon in your mind, and they can certainly inform us unofficially about further character backstory or whatever - like an actor talking about their character - because many (if not most) of their stories' events can be pretty much considered to have happened very similarly in the universe, like Star Wars Legends. But they're not actually official canon, and are certainly disposable in terms of canon if something comes along that overrules them, because they were never official in the first place."

      And does that not also very nicely define the deleted scenes? It does for me at least.

      So, essentially, if there's timeline information in the deleted scenes, we definitely count it because it was intended to be part of the MCU so it's definitely a source - just it has less weight than actual official canon material.

      You just can't call them canon when there are ones like the alternate Iron Man 2 ending which cannot be canon - plus there's things like unfinished visual effects which also call everything into question. And basically, if, because of the deleted scenes that are contradictory, you look at something and have to take at best the stance of "canon until proven otherwise", that means by default that the canon status is not hard and official and is in fact flexible - and therefore, they cannot be proper canon, only inspired.

      As well as this, because (I don't know why but it's not a big deal) this wiki's policy is to deem inspired canon content canon-until-proven-otherwise - and therefore the inspired canon comics without hard contradictory information do appear on the timeline pages - we do include deleted scenes without hard contradictions on the timeline pages.

      The example of the The Incredible Hulk scene is a great example of what I was saying about how it's similar to Star Wars Legends - for which Lucasfilm specifically said, "The thing with legends is that parts of them are true." Because that scene cannot actually fully be canon, and if it's not fully canon, it's not canon. The reason for that is the Captain America appearance in that scene, which contradicts the canon for Captain America being frozen in the Valkyrie. However, as we know from The Avengers, almost all of the events of that scene are indeed true. It's just that the scene itself cannot actually be considered canon.

      As for the Inside Voices scene - that one is different because they brought it into official canon. So that scene, had it been released previously on a DVD or whatever, would have been considered inspired canon - a case where it doesn't officially count but could very easily fit into canon, just for example if the show had decided to have Quinn be alive and well, the scene would be easily thrown out, therefore meaning the scene cannot be considered cemented canon. But the moment that scene became part of an episode, then it became official hard canon.

      Hope that's all clear.


      The Punisher: Season 2 (additional)

      Something I forgot to mention that I noticed - I guess I was only thinking about this because I've been writing up Season 1 so it's fresh in my mind: In Cold Steel, Frank says, "I'm only gonna say this once, OK? I was with Maria for 3 months when she got pregnant with Lisa. She said that she was not giving her up. Didn't wanna raise her alone, but she understood if I didn't wanna hang around. I asked her to marry me that day. Now I had friends who said I was crazy, that I'd lost my mind. But we were together ever since. Now, sure, we had problems, but I never wanted to be with anyone else." Micro, "Right...", Frank, "Why don't you shut your mouth and listen for a change? I don't want your wife. You got it? Good." He apparently doesn't want to get with any other women... But he's happy to just get with Beth in Episode 1.

        Loading editor
    • BEJT wrote:

      The Punisher: Season 2 (additional)

      Something I forgot to mention that I noticed - I guess I was only thinking about this because I've been writing up Season 1 so it's fresh in my mind: In Cold Steel, Frank says, "I'm only gonna say this once, OK? I was with Maria for 3 months when she got pregnant with Lisa. She said that she was not giving her up. Didn't wanna raise her alone, but she understood if I didn't wanna hang around. I asked her to marry me that day. Now I had friends who said I was crazy, that I'd lost my mind. But we were together ever since. Now, sure, we had problems, but I never wanted to be with anyone else." Micro, "Right...", Frank, "Why don't you shut your mouth and listen for a change? I don't want your wife. You got it? Good." He apparently doesn't want to get with any other women... But he's happy to just get with Beth in Episode 1.

      I think he just kinda moved on after getting revenge for his family.

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    • Yeah. It has been more than a year since Castle's revenge, let the man ejoy his singleness. If you know what I mean :v

      Btw, what a small world isn't it @BEJT? I just wish I knew someone who knows Kevin Feige so I can talk to them about Timeline business.

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    • Marvelus wrote: Btw, what a small world isn't it @BEJT? I just wish I knew someone who knows Kevin Feige so I can talk to them about Timeline business.

      And Esposito. I read he's the timeline guy among them.
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    • Wasn't his last name D'Esposito? Xd

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    • Marvelus wrote: Wasn't his last name D'Esposito? Xd

      Yup, I made a typo and didn't catch it in time. ;)
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    • How would you feel if the shows set in the MCU are declared non-canon? Do you think that would happen?

      Personally, I would start editing here and get rid of my entire MCU collection xD

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    • I'd climb the tallest mountain I could find, make sure no one was around, then scream, then weep. :P

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    • General Chat (Assassin1and2, Marvelus, Mrmichaelt)

      Assassin1and2 wrote: I think he just kinda moved on after getting revenge for his family.

      Marvelus wrote: Yeah. It has been more than a year since Castle's revenge, let the man ejoy his singleness. If you know what I mean :v

      Alright, we'll let him off I guess😂.

      Marvelus wrote: Btw, what a small world isn't it @BEJT? I just wish I knew someone who knows Kevin Feige so I can talk to them about Timeline business.

      Small world indeed. I also have a cousin who goes to Tom Holland's old school, an ex-colleague who is friends with Hayley Atwell, and - and maybe I'm revealing a bit too much about myself here but I don't live in the town so I might as well say - I went to the same school as Laura Haddock, with my form teacher having taught her 15 years before me.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: And Esposito. I read he's the timeline guy among them.

      Interesting. I hadn't heard that he was the more timeline-y one of the producers.

      Marvelus wrote: Wasn't his last name D'Esposito? Xd

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Yup, I made a typo and didn't catch it in time. ;)

      I'm not joking, when the Spider-Man: Homecoming premiere livestream introduced him as they went to interview him, at that exact moment, Despacito by Luis Fonsi was playing in the background. No one commented on it in the livestream and I didn't see any YouTube comments pointing it out, but it was such a weird coincidence that Despacito played as D'Esposito arrived, I couldn't believe it. I'll see if I can find the time code tomorrow to show you guys😂.

      Marvelus wrote: How would you feel if the shows set in the MCU are declared non-canon? Do you think that would happen?

      Personally, I would start editing here and get rid of my entire MCU collection xD

      Woah dude why are you saying that? I don't even want to believe that's a possibility. I'm sure they'll never do that, they must know that while yes, there's a lot of film-only fans who would go "Yay now I never have to watch", it would get a huge backlash from a significant number of people. Or would it? It feels like fewer and fewer people care about the TV stuff which makes me sad, and maybe their canon status isn't something people would get particularly angry about and it would only raise as much anger as just like a show's cancellation, where the anger comes and then goes because the majority just don't care.

      Usually I wouldn't ever want anger or backlash, but in this case, I would kind of hope that if they made such a move, it would spark a backlash. I mean, it would just be disrespectful to so many people who both made and watched the shows. And I know it doesn't actually affect the fact the quality of the shows, nor the fact that they were shows that were made and watched and enjoyed - the most important thing with shows. But nonetheless, the canon status of the shows is an important thing and an important promise in these shows' production from Marvel, it would feel like a betrayal.

      It doesn't bear thinking about. I would honestly be kinda heartbroken that all the blood, sweat, and tears put into those shows went to waste (again, I know it wouldn't actually be to waste because it's not like they no longer exist - OK, I'll say "went half to waste"), and that such a ginormous portion of our work was pointless. I would probably start some sort of online page where I continue the work anyway as if the TV shows were canon, essentially calling it the alternate, wider MCU, because at least in the show's universe, the films exist - even if, in this hypothetical scenario, the shows would no longer exist within the main Marvel Cinematic Universe of the films.

      I'm assuming you meant "stop" editing, not "start", Marvelus?

      Mrmichaelt wrote: I'd climb the tallest mountain I could find, make sure no one was around, then scream, then weep. :P

      Pretty much.

      By the way Marvelus, in response to your edit, we're not 10 TV seasons behind, only 7 - though I'm guessing you were joking? But again, I'm working hard on it. We'll get there.


      The Punisher: Season 2 (additional)

      Only watched 2 episodes at this point (also, Jim O'Hanlon did do Episode 2, phew, I don't look like an idiot), but user Rman823 is saying this on the discussions feature.

      If it turns out that he's right (sounds like he's looked thoroughly and probably is), and turns out that there isn't contradictory evidence putting it earlier - so basically, if it turns out that The Punisher: Season 2 is indeed May 2018 as I kinda feared it would be (not that it's a massive catastrophe or anything) several months ago, then this might be enough evidence now to topple Ant-Man and the Wasp/Avengers: Infinity War from the current mid-to-late March 2018 placement over to the next slot, the late April/early May placement. But no rushing guys. As I mention there, I don't want to have to stress to get through the season just to make that decision A.S.A.P., and I don't want to start making any decisions until I've seen both specifically that scene and just the whole season for the full picture, and after that it will also take a bit of time to assess the position of everything.

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    • BEJT wrote: Interesting. I hadn't heard that he was the more timeline-y one of the producers.

      I believe it was the same article a few years back when they revealed at the office they had a big ass scroll with 'the timeline' on it.
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    • Mrmichaelt wrote: I believe it was the same article a few years back when they revealed at the office they had a big ass scroll with 'the timeline' on it.

      It was Eric Hauserman Carroll who they said was behind that. I contacted him last year about "8 years later".

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    • Marvelus wrote:
      How would you feel if the shows set in the MCU are declared non-canon? Do you think that would happen?

      I would stop watching the movies. I prefer the TV shows anyways and Cap is likely going to die in Endgame, so there's no reason for me to continue watching them if they did this.

      However, with Joss Whedon's involvement in Agents of SHIELD, and both the Russos and Feige being involved in Agent Carter, I would assume those two are safe. That would just put the Netflix shows, Inhumans, Runaways and Cloak & Dagger at risk. And even then, it seems like Runaways is shaping up to be a spin-off of sorts from Doctor Strange thanks to Tina and the Staff and all the callbacks to Kaecilius, so that one might be safe as well. The others barely have movie ties to begin with.

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    • BEJT wrote: It was Eric Hauserman Carroll who they said was behind that. I contacted him last year about "8 years later".

      That's right. My bad. It was for Homecoming press when it was mentioned. I was mixing up it up with an old D'Esposito interview when he hinted about some unused One-Shots (or joking about).
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    • In Episode 7 of Punisher Season 2, "One Year Ago" is written on screen on a flashback scene where Madani is in hospital after getting shot in the head. They are having an official inquiry. I think this is shortly after last time we saw her in hospital. Later in that episode, Madani says "It's been a year and I am still trying." You think that's fine?

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    • Madani was shot on December 16th, presuming she was 3 days in a short coma after the bullet in her head, she wakes up on December 19th.

      The flashbacks from E7 of the Punisher S2 (which I have not seen) might be moved into early January 2017. One year later, we are on Spring 2018. It's been a year and she is still trying to recover.

      Or maybe the full season is set around November-december 2017, which is unlikely as it is likely going to be on Spring 2018.

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    • General Chat (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Mrmichaelt)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I would stop watching the movies. I prefer the TV shows anyways and Cap is likely going to die in Endgame, so there's no reason for me to continue watching them if they did this.

      However, with Joss Whedon's involvement in Agents of SHIELD, and both the Russos and Feige being involved in Agent Carter, I would assume those two are safe. That would just put the Netflix shows, Inhumans, Runaways and Cloak & Dagger at risk. And even then, it seems like Runaways is shaping up to be a spin-off of sorts from Doctor Strange thanks to Tina and the Staff and all the callbacks to Kaecilius, so that one might be safe as well. The others barely have movie ties to begin with.

      Nice to see a big TV fan. I agree, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent Carter are just inseparable from the films. But I mean, technically, everything is - it takes one strong link like the Raft, the discussion of the Avengers fighting in the Battle of New York, the dark dimension eyes, mentions of Starks and Rands and Misty etc. to weave these things together inseparably. You even have the films referencing back to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. with Fury talking about the Helicarrier saying, "Nice, right? I pulled her out of mothballs with a couple of old friends. She's dusty, but she'll do," and just the fact that the Avengers go to Sokovia because of Coulson, although granted these are only references to the show because we know they are from the show. I guess the worry is that there is the minuscule chance they just blanket say, "Those shows are non-canon. Just pretend they exist in some other universe where things happened very similarly to the events of the films, but not literally in the same universe as the films." But surely (I would at least like to think... but yeah, surely...) they couldn't do something like that. I think this fear has just popped up because of the whole "Disney to reboot Marvel Netflix characters?" thing that got misunderstood and spread recently.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: That's right. My bad. It was for Homecoming press when it was mentioned. I was mixing up it up with an old D'Esposito interview when he hinted about some unused One-Shots (or joking about).

      Ah OK. Also, here's the link, with a time code, to the Despacito thing😂. Turns out some people in the comments did notice like me.


      The Punisher: Season 2 (Protego Maima, Marvelus)

      Protego Maxima wrote: In Episode 7 of Punisher Season 2, "One Year Ago" is written on screen on a flashback scene where Madani is in hospital after getting shot in the head. They are having an official inquiry. I think this is shortly after last time we saw her in hospital. Later in that episode, Madani says "It's been a year and I am still trying." You think that's fine?

      Marvelus wrote: Madani was shot on December 16th, presuming she was 3 days in a short coma after the bullet in her head, she wakes up on December 19th.

      The flashbacks from E7 of the Punisher S2 (which I have not seen) might be moved into early January 2017. One year later, we are on Spring 2018. It's been a year and she is still trying to recover.

      Or maybe the full season is set around November-december 2017, which is unlikely as it is likely going to be on Spring 2018.

      Thanks Protego Maxima. Sorry guys, I'm still only 3 episodes in (though I've had a massive spoiler dropped on me which is really annoying. These 13-episodes-at-once releases are so stressful). From this time tomorrow I'll be able to get through it much faster.

      I agree completely with Marvelus. Like him, I haven't seen it, so maybe when I watch the episode I'll get a different perspective and realise that it has to be right after Season 1 or something, but otherwise, sounds like it's reasonably feasible that Madani stayed in hospital for a couple of weeks (I mean, she was shot in the head after all) into early 2017.

      I'll also need to watch to understand the context of the line, if she's referring to the time since the shot or since she left hospital or something. Though, worst comes to the worst, it's not the end of the world to call December 2017 to Spring 2018 "1 year".

      Edit: Meant to say December 2016, can't change it now because it's been quoted below and the following bits of conversation wouldn't make sense.

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    • BEJT wrote:

      I'll also need to watch to understand the context of the line, if she's referring to the time since the shot or since she left hospital or something.

      Well, I wrote a long explanation but all were deleted because of a stupid mistake :) In summary, I believe she is referring to her partner, Sam Stein's death in that scene. She says her mother was devastated after her grandmother's death and she had to find a new normal. Then she says couple of things too and finally says the line "So it's been a year, and I am still trying." You guys will see in a more careful way when you watch it. I am still an amateur :)

      BEJT wrote: Though, worst comes to the worst, it's not the end of the world to call December 2017 to Spring 2018 "1 year".

      Agreed.

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    • Sorry, I meant "December 2016 to Spring 2018", woops.

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    • Although you made a mistake, I understood what you meant to say :) Agreed again.

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    • BEJT wrote: I guess the worry is that there is the minuscule chance they just blanket say, "Those shows are non-canon. Just pretend they exist in some other universe where things happened very similarly to the events of the films, but not literally in the same universe as the films." But surely (I would at least like to think... but yeah, surely...) they couldn't do something like that. I think this fear has just popped up because of the whole "Disney to reboot Marvel Netflix characters?" thing that got misunderstood and spread recently.

      Yeah, pretty much.

      BEJT wrote: Ah OK. Also, here's the link, with a time code, to the Despacito thing😂. Turns out some people in the comments did notice like me.

      Ha ha! Thanks.
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    • Following BEJT comment, so Billy Russo entered on a coma on December 17th 2016 (a few hours after the shock he got from getting the face destroyed, he still looks better than me :p) 6 weeks later, on January 29th 2017 (the latest) he awakes.

      He spends next time (several several weeks) on recovery, will take it to early April 2017, the very first days, I would say April 1st, and then he is assigned with Krysta. So the season would pick up on March 2018.

      Am I right?.

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    • Marvelus wrote: Following BEJT comment, so Billy Russo entered on a coma on December 17th 2016 (a few hours after the shock he got from getting the face destroyed, he still looks better than me :p) 6 weeks later, on January 29th 2017 (the latest) he awakes.

      He spends next time (several several weeks) on recovery, will take it to early April 2017, the very first days, I would say April 1st, and then he is assigned with Krysta. So the season would pick up on March 2018.

      Am I right?.

      Yeah, but that "One Year Ago" thing was more about Madani's hospital times, if that's what you mean.

      I finished the season. Here's a few general thoughts of mine on timeline. No spoilers for the most part, I will not talk about further episodes until the very end of this post. Don't worry I will put a warning before I go into that one thing.

      Note: I reluctantly will play devil's advocate here.

      OK guys, through pausing and copying any bits I can read, and then filling in the gaps with existing images of presidential pardons, I've worked out what the whole letter says in the teaser for The Punisher: Season 2, an it's pretty good news.

      BEJT wrote: Executive Grant of Clemency The President of the United States of America TO ALL TO WHOM THESE PRESENTS SHALL COME, GREETING: BE IT KNOWN, THAT THIS DAY THE PRESIDENT HAS GRANTED UNTO FRANK CASTLE A FULL AND UNCONDITIONAL PARDON FOR HIS CONVICTION in the United States District Court for the District of New York on an indightment (Docket No. 6421-L-Cr) charging violation of Sections 32 (2017 edition) and 536, Title 12, United States Code, Section 924, Title 44, United States Code, and Presidential Proclamation 4995, dated January 14th, 2016, for which he was sentenced on February fourth 2017, to 18 months' imprisonment and a fine of five thousand dollars ($5,000).

      THE PRESIDENT HAS DESIGNATED, directed and empowered the Pardon Attorney as his representative to sign this grant of executive clemency.

      In accordance with these instructions and authority, I have signed my name and caused the seal of the Department of Justice to be affixed hereto and affirm that this action is the act of the President being performed at his discretion.

      Done at the City of Washington, District of Columbia, on March 1st 2018.

      BY DIRECTION OF THE PRESIDENT Signature

      So, this is the letter we saw in teaser. That letter burning scene only appeared on that teaser so, it was a metaphorical way to show him going back to his punishing life.

      As for why I brought up this teaser, some of the things don't make sense to me:

      1) On Season 1 finale, we never saw Frank being sentenced. Just 3 days after facing off with Russo (pun intended), which happened on December, we saw him all cleaned up with a new identity. Even if we think it all happened within 3 days, him being sentenced date doesn't match up.

      2) 18 months of imprisonment? That's too low.

      3) Why would his pardon be signed more than a year later?

      (Note: If you guys say the dates are within logic, I'd like to listen why.)


      This is the part where I will play devil's advocate. What if they were referring his Daredevil Season 2 trial scenes with "for which he was sentenced on February fourth 2017" part in the letter? This would match up with their way of thinking, because as far as we know, Season 1 of Punisher takes place on late 2017 according to them. (Remember Lewis Wilson mistake?) And then with pardon letter being signed on March 1st 2018, it would be shortly after the last scene of Punisher Season 1, where he gets his freedom. This would make things worse. Because if they insist on "It was released on November 2017, so it takes place on November 2017", with the same logic and obvious "one year ago" thing, they might think this season takes place on late 2018.


      So the conclusion: If they think like what I wrote above, the possibilities are:

      1) Heads of Marvel TV don't care about contradictions with movies, thus they never warned producers about The Snap.

      2) They do care, but they know The Snap will be reversed as if it never happened and will affect nothing.

      They really have to see the timeline on this wiki, which really does make sense and much better than their way of thinking. Can't we contact with at least Marvel TV?

      We will wait until another statement from TV side, where they should say Punisher Season 2 is before Infinity War, like they did with Daredevil Season 3. If they say so, (SMALL SPOILER HERE) we might wanna consider "Frank burning letter video"s given dates as non-canon because of something that was shown on the last episode.

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    • I think you are getting confused a lot man.

      The letter for the presidential aprdon refers to an incident after the events seen from Novemeber to December 2016, where the season of Punisher takes place. Not 2017, 2016. That Lewis Wilson mistake is just a mistake, because Jessica Jones S2 further confirmed that The Punisher is set before Summer 2017.

      The season is set on 2018, I have no doubts of that. Marvel TV knows about Avengers: Endgame plot, not all of it, but how people in the MCU is going to be affected. And Daredevil S2 Punisher Trial is set on November 2015, he was sentenced to all his crimes on November 2015 not February 4th 2017, that is for a later incident. I think Madani teased this in one of the first episodes, I have just seen 3 of them.

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    • Marvelus wrote: I think you are getting confused a lot man.

      The letter for the presidential aprdon refers to an incident after the events seen from Novemeber to December 2016, where the season of Punisher takes place. Not 2017, 2016. That Lewis Wilson mistake is just a mistake, because Jessica Jones S2 further confirmed that The Punisher is set before Summer 2017.

      The season is set on 2018, I have no doubts of that. Marvel TV knows about Avengers: Endgame plot, not all of it, but how people in the MCU is going to be affected. And Daredevil S2 Punisher Trial is set on November 2015, he was sentenced to all his crimes on November 2015 not February 4th 2017, that is for a later incident. I think Madani teased this in one of the first episodes, I have just seen 3 of them.

      Yes, all of the things you said are based on your calculations which I think makes a lot of sense, and I agree with all of your calculations. But I am saying producers might not think in that way. This is the whole point of what I wrote. That's why I said I was gonna play the devil's advocate. I didn't write all these thing because I defended them. I might have used the term "the devil's advocate" wrongfully, sorry about that. What I really meant is "thinking on their way of thinking" and making that "Frank burning letter video" make sense according to producers' thinking. I am not confused. You said trial takes place on November 2015. Agreed. As I told you I agree with all of your calculations. But according to producers, this might not be the case also. That's why they made Lewis Wilson mistake. They put a "6 months later" on the first episode of first season (which doesn't make sense). So according to them Season 2 of Daredevil may take place on late 2016 (again it doesn't make sense).

      Hope, it is clear now :)

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    • I don't think producers think on that way, at least, not the ones from TV, the ones from the movies do.

      Calculations are used in some exclusive times when there are not dates confirmed, however, MCU Nerflix side as a whole has dates confirmed. Producers put intentionally a 2000 date defunction for Jessica Jones' family's incident. And they explicitly said 17 years later, which confirms we are on Spring-Summer 2017, the months are not calculations, the dates are (most of the time they don't). So se know for sure that Punisher S1 is before Summer 2017.

      All the dates you have already seen in Punisher S2 are just pieces of a jigsaw puzzle (did you spot the reference :v) put in very weird places waiting for us to put them together and determinate the best, we have our timeline guy in here, BEJT, that will come for sure a good conclusion to all of this.

      Producers might think other thing, yes, but that doesn't mean that is the truth. I am very sure that this season is going to be set on Sprinf 2018, which month? Will see. But there is nothing to worry about. It is not a mess as everyone claims. Infinity War did really put some people complaining about the timeline and if TV shows still connected after all...

      @BEJT, there are some evidence posted on the The Comic Board web site, while I don't agree at all which what they are saying about Punisher S2 taking place on August-September 2017 (sighs), there enough eviden for you and me to make an idea of when are things set.

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    • Their placement makes no sense for the simple fact Karen’s appearance references DDS3 which places it before Punisher Season 2

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    • Rman823 wrote: Their placement makes no sense for the simple fact Karen’s appearance references DDS3 which places it before Punisher Season 2

      I mean of course it is, Netflix shows are usually in order of release

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    • And set around their filming dates. Which is why Spring 2018 makes much more sense to me than Summer 2017.

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    • The Punisher: Season 2 (Protego Maxima, Marvelus, Rman823, Assassin1and2)

      Protego Maxima wrote: Well, I wrote a long explanation but all were deleted because of a stupid mistake :) In summary, I believe she is referring to her partner, Sam Stein's death in that scene. She says her mother was devastated after her grandmother's death and she had to find a new normal. Then she says couple of things too and finally says the line "So it's been a year, and I am still trying." You guys will see in a more careful way when you watch it. I am still an amateur :)

      Alright thank you.

      Marvelus wrote: Following BEJT comment, so Billy Russo entered on a coma on December 17th 2016 (a few hours after the shock he got from getting the face destroyed, he still looks better than me :p) 6 weeks later, on January 29th 2017 (the latest) he awakes.

      He spends next time (several several weeks) on recovery, will take it to early April 2017, the very first days, I would say April 1st, and then he is assigned with Krysta. So the season would pick up on March 2018.

      Am I right?.

      He enters the coma on the 16th, not the 17th, but pretty much. This means that "6 weeks" later, he likely woke up around January 27, 2017, but like you say, could be up to Sunday 29th and still be "6 weeks". And yeah, all I was noting there was that there's some link there. Because Krista apparently worked with him for "months" and Billy apparently woke up after 6 weeks. But it isn't too relevant, could've been a very long time before Krista started working with him - though we know it's less than 6 months because in the Episode 4 flashbacks, Krista has started working with him and says he is 6 months into his recovery. So basically, we're 6 weeks + no more than 6 months + "months" after Season 1. Kind of worth mentioning I guess because it means that we're "months" after July 2017 at the latest, but not too relevant.

      Bear in mind I've still only seen up to Episode 4 so I don't know if more evidence shows up. The reason for that is I was busy with exams and things and then I really wanted to finish off the Season 1 write-ups before I got to rewatching Season 2, Episode 1 (remember my system is watch 1-4, rewatch 1-4, watch 5-9, rewatch 5-9, watch 10-13, rewatch 10-13), because I didn't want to keep jumping back and forth and just wanted to watch Season 2 properly, and also wanted to kind of use the write-ups to jog my memory of exactly how Season 1 ended before I properly got into Season 2 (properly, I did start it before finishing writing up Season 1, but didn't get deep into it). I have now finished writing up Season 1 (in 9 days I've gone from 12.0 months to 11.1 months behind! - if you're interested in my process, this is it) and am currently, as I type, finishing rewatching Episode 2, and will be watching the season fully over the next couple of days, as I have free time and nothing holding me back now.

      Protego Maxima wrote: Yeah, but that "One Year Ago" thing was more about Madani's hospital times, if that's what you mean.

      Marvelus was referring to my message further up with my Season 2 notes, which is something I do with Marvel Netflix seasons (as hard as the work is, it's sad to think there's probably only one left🙁) - I post a message and then edit it as I go through the season, noting any important observations on first watch and then properly writing my notes on my rewatches. Marvelus is really good at checking back on those messages even though they get buried by the chat before they're done, so tat's why it seemed a little spontaneous.

      Protego Maxima wrote: I finished the season. Here's a few general thoughts of mine on timeline. No spoilers for the most part, I will not talk about further episodes until the very end of this post. Don't worry I will put a warning before I go into that one thing.

      Note: I reluctantly will play devil's advocate here.

      BEJT wrote: Executive Grant of Clemency
      The President of the United States of America
      TO ALL TO WHOM THESE PRESENTS SHALL COME, GREETING:
      BE IT KNOWN, THAT THIS DAY THE PRESIDENT HAS GRANTED UNTO
      FRANK CASTLE
      A FULL AND UNCONDITIONAL PARDON
      FOR HIS CONVICTION in the United States District Court for the District of New
      York on an indightment (Docket No. 6421-L-Cr) charging violation of Sections 32
      (2017 edition) and 536, Title 12, United States Code, Section 924, Title 44, United States
      Code, and Presidential Proclamation 4995, dated January 14th, 2016, for which he was
      sentenced on February fourth 2017, to 18 months' imprisonment and a fine of five
      thousand dollars ($5,000).

      THE PRESIDENT HAS DESIGNATED, directed and empowered the Pardon Attorney
      as his representative to sign this grant of executive clemency.

      In accordance with these instructions and authority, I
      have signed my name and caused the seal of the
      Department of Justice to be affixed hereto and affirm
      that this action is the act of the President being
      performed at his discretion.

      Done at the City of Washington, District of
      Columbia, on March 1st 2018.

      BY DIRECTION OF THE PRESIDENT
      Signature

      So, this is the letter we saw in teaser. That letter burning scene only appeared on that teaser so, it was a metaphorical way to show him going back to his punishing life.

      As for why I brought up this teaser, some of the things don't make sense to me:

      1) On Season 1 finale, we never saw Frank being sentenced. Just 3 days after facing off with Russo (pun intended), which happened on December, we saw him all cleaned up with a new identity. Even if we think it all happened within 3 days, him being sentenced date doesn't match up.

      2) 18 months of imprisonment? That's too low.

      3) Why would his pardon be signed more than a year later?

      (Note: If you guys say the dates are within logic, I'd like to listen why.)


      This is the part where I will play devil's advocate. What if they were referring his Daredevil Season 2 trial scenes with "for which he was sentenced on February fourth 2017" part in the letter? This would match up with their way of thinking, because as far as we know, Season 1 of Punisher takes place on late 2017 according to them. (Remember Lewis Wilson mistake?) And then with pardon letter being signed on March 1st 2018, it would be shortly after the last scene of Punisher Season 1, where he gets his freedom. This would make things worse. Because if they insist on "It was released on November 2017, so it takes place on November 2017", with the same logic and obvious "one year ago" thing, they might think this season takes place on late 2018.


      So the conclusion: If they think like what I wrote above, the possibilities are:

      1) Heads of Marvel TV don't care about contradictions with movies, thus they never warned producers about The Snap.

      2) They do care, but they know The Snap will be reversed as if it never happened and will affect nothing.

      They really have to see the timeline on this wiki, which really does make sense and much better than their way of thinking. Can't we contact with at least Marvel TV?

      We will wait until another statement from TV side, where they should say Punisher Season 2 is before Infinity War, like they did with Daredevil Season 3. If they say so, (SMALL SPOILER HERE) we might wanna consider "Frank burning letter video"s given dates as non-canon because of something that was shown on the last episode.

      OK so a few things here.

      I guessed it was only a teaser, they're doing more of that with the Netflix shows now.

      In response to your first points, we weren't suggesting before that the sentencing was referring to Season 1. I had assumed from a mix of the fact that the date was after when Season 1 at least should take place, the fact that the February date matched with absolutely nothing else, and the fact that the pardon as shown by the March 1, 2018 date seemed to very much be a new detail they were introducing, that it was indeed a post-Season 1 incident. So what you say about it not lining up with Frank not being sentenced at the end of Season 1 and 18 months being too short, my initial response would be that the assumption was that it wasn't referring to Season 1.

      But that said... when you go on to the next points, you might be right that it actually is meant to be post-Season 1. It's a bit weird. Even if, in their minds, Season 1 is November-December 2017, Daredevil: Season 2 should then be late 2016 in their minds (it's said to be "last year", "barely a year ago", etc. through the season). While the March 2018 date could make some sense from them thinking "OK, the presidential pardon sometimes takes a few months to go through" (I don't know if that's the case but it seems plausible), the February 2017 date is specifically the date of sentencing and not the same where it can be "just after". Plus it still doesn't make sense with 18 months. I can't remember if, in Daredevil: Season 2, they announce his sentence, but it's got to be way more than 18 months.

      There is also something that I didn't think was worth mentioning at the time, but is worth mentioning now. When I was filling in the gaps to work out what the letter said and searched for presidential pardon images, I noticed that one of the top results, this one, had exactly the same "February fourth", "18 months", and "fine of five thousand dollars ($5,000)". I think that honestly, this might not be Marvel but could literally just be not only the prop department, but the prop department of the marketing department, and they've just basically copied that presidential pardon and changed some numbers and words, throwing "2017" in there to replace "1949" because they thought, "Well obviously we can't use 1949, we've got to use something modern, 2017's about right, I don't know, no one will check or cares." So I think honestly, you're probably right, but even with the attempt to understand I think we're still being overly optimistic about their thought process here. I don't think there is much of a thought process here. I think that yes, it probably is meant to be a prop referring to the end of Season 1 and how he was pardoned for the events of Daredevil: Season 2, and they just threw dates in there that weren't thought through that were just vaguely in the right general area, and also didn't consider changing that "18 months".

      But we still have to address it. Having assumed it was some new incident from between the seasons, I had assumed it was going to have relevance in the season, but it sounds like it doesn't - again, because it does sound like it's just supposed to refer to the end of Season 1. In Episode 1, when Frank talks to Beth about how he embarrassed high-up people and now has to live under a new identity, having not watched Season 1 in over a year and with that pardon in mind, I incorrectly assumed that this was a reference to whatever incident happened between the seasons and the fact that he had a presidential pardon and was living under a new identity - but having now rewatched the end of Season 1 to write it up (that finale is still incredible), obviously I was reminded that of course, he gets pardoned at the end of that season (they don't mention a presidential pardon but it's very possible) and given the Pete Castiglione identity, so that's all he's referring to. Obviously I retract my previous statement from watching Episode 1.

      So it sounds like yeah, that promo is basically just not addressed in any way in the season and likely was intended to refer to Daredevil: Season 2 and The Punisher: Season 1. But what can we do about it? Well, it's not ideal because it doesn't really fit with what the show seems to tell us Frank has been doing since Season 1 and what Steven Lightfoot said he'd been doing - basically travelling and building a new life and in a bit of a more mellow place - but I think we do still just have to assume that Frank got in some unfortunate incident in February 2017. He was found out for being Frank Castle (doesn't seem like it would be too hard if he got arrested, while his fingerprints and DNA were changed in the system, he's got to be fairly recognisable) and sentenced to 18 months (that would explain the 18 months, it being from some smaller incident than anything we've seen him involved with). The CIA and Homeland Security then swooped in, still very worried that he could tell people the truth of everything that happened with Operation Cerberus (which was the reason they gave him the pardon at the end of Season 1, basically in exchange for his silence), and got him pardoned again and released. And the actual official presidential pardon took a year to actually come through. Then we would basically have to just choose some point in Season 2 where the promo can fit in (like how, even though it doesn't really fit, I've still got to find the point in Daredevil: Season 3 where the confession teaser has to be awkwardly slotted in). Some point where he decides this isn't just a temporary thing and he has to probably get back to being the Punisher, and he burns the pardon off-camera as sort of an acceptance of that.

      I'm sure all of this isn't the intent of that promo, but it's the only way we can make it work I feel.

      And since, therefore, the promo still stands, this would still make Season 2 after March 1, 2018 (I mean, since we're saying it is unrelated to Season 2, I guess technically the promo could take place after Season 2, but that would be weird). But it sounds like it is anyway, so sure.

      Man, I feel like this happens a lot that I think we've got good news but it turns out we don't.

      Finally, addressing what you say about the Snap. I don't think that any of these shows were made with "We have to set this before the Snap" in mind. I think they've just made them and as usual, not particularly caring about the timeline and not paying any attention to the Snap either because Loeb knows it's not a problem in the long run or because he knew he could just wave it away as "They're set before". Or maybe because they actually didn't even know about the Snap until shortly before Infinity War, who knows. There is little doubt in my mind that Loeb's comment about them being set before is just a hand-wave and not a thought-through, prepared, and intentionally implemented timeline choice. That's not to say the comment can be ignored, we still have to consider it, but I've said before that it's basically the only thing he can say.

      Thanks for saying they should look at the wiki timeline. I have no idea how to get in contact with these people though.

      Loeb has made a comment saying that every TV season released between Infinity War and Endgame is set before Infinity War, so that does include The Punisher: Season 2, though granted, for most of the other seasons they've also specifically said it of that season, and I don't think they have yet for The Punisher: Season 2, which I guess makes it "less confirmed", for lack of a better term.

      Just got to the end of your message about considering it non-canon. Thanks for not spoiling (I think the way you phrased it isn't a spoiler at all), because a few of us haven't seen it yet. Interesting that you think there might be something contradicting that. Obviously I'll respond about that once I've finished the season.

      Marvelus wrote: I think you are getting confused a lot man.

      The letter for the presidential aprdon refers to an incident after the events seen from Novemeber to December 2016, where the season of Punisher takes place. Not 2017, 2016. That Lewis Wilson mistake is just a mistake, because Jessica Jones S2 further confirmed that The Punisher is set before Summer 2017.

      The season is set on 2018, I have no doubts of that. Marvel TV knows about Avengers: Endgame plot, not all of it, but how people in the MCU is going to be affected. And Daredevil S2 Punisher Trial is set on November 2015, he was sentenced to all his crimes on November 2015 not February 4th 2017, that is for a later incident. I think Madani teased this in one of the first episodes, I have just seen 3 of them.

      He's not confused, he's not saying that this is the actual timeline, just that this might be what they were thinking when they made the promo.

      We don't know for sure what Marvel Television know, and how many people know it (might even just be Loeb), but you would hope they know a little bit. But who knows how much they knew this time last year when they were preparing to start filming The Punisher: Season 2.

      I didn't catch anything from Madani about an incident in those first 3 episodes. I've rewatched those first two, maybe I'll catch what you're referring to when I rewatch Episode 3.

      Protego Maxima wrote: Yes, all of the things you said are based on your calculations which I think makes a lot of sense, and I agree with all of your calculations. But I am saying producers might not think in that way. This is the whole point of what I wrote. That's why I said I was gonna play the devil's advocate. I didn't write all these thing because I defended them. I might have used the term "the devil's advocate" wrongfully, sorry about that. What I really meant is "thinking on their way of thinking" and making that "Frank burning letter video" make sense according to producers' thinking. I am not confused. You said trial takes place on November 2015. Agreed. As I told you I agree with all of your calculations. But according to producers, this might not be the case also. That's why they made Lewis Wilson mistake. They put a "6 months later" on the first episode of first season (which doesn't make sense). So according to them Season 2 of Daredevil may take place on late 2016 (again it doesn't make sense).

      Hope, it is clear now :)

      I understood. It might not have come across to Marvelus because, while he speaks very good English, he's not from the U.S. (or U.K. like me) so maybe it's just the fact that idioms don't tend to translate well.

      The Lewis Wilson mistake I think might have come from the mismatch between dialogue and screen props. Often with screens, they make the screen green and superimpose the image later to avoid getting camera reflections. I wonder if they had the "26" line in there for ages and then when they got around to putting the image on and worked backwards from the fact that by then they would have known it was due to release in late 2017. So I don't necessarily think that the producers think it's set in 2017, I think this stuff tends to just be more individual slip-ups, and I've given the reasons above why I think this promo turned out the way it did. By the way, the "6 months later" in 3AM isn't a problem. It's "6 months later" after he finished taking down the gangs involved in his family's deaths, which he finished doing on April 30th, then he burns his vest on May 1st, before cutting to "6 months later" in November. It's not "6 months later" after Daredevil: Season 2.

      Also, again, I do agree that the promo is probably intended to refer to Daredevil: Season 2, but I'm not sure that it's evidence that the producers think that's late 2016, because a) I don't think the producers were necessarily involved in that piece of promotional material, b) I don't think they particularly care about the timeline to have a placement in mind, and c) it still doesn't make sense because the promo pardon refers specifically to the sentencing being February 2017, and the sentencing was during Daredevil: Season 2.

      So yes and no. Yes, I think they have got it wrong based around an incorrect Daredevil: Season 2 placement, but no, I don't think it's necessarily to do with the producers having an incorrect timeline in place.

      Marvelus wrote: I don't think producers think on that way, at least, not the ones from TV, the ones from the movies do.

      Calculations are used in some exclusive times when there are not dates confirmed, however, MCU Nerflix side as a whole has dates confirmed. Producers put intentionally a 2000 date defunction for Jessica Jones' family's incident. And they explicitly said 17 years later, which confirms we are on Spring-Summer 2017, the months are not calculations, the dates are (most of the time they don't). So se know for sure that Punisher S1 is before Summer 2017.

      All the dates you have already seen in Punisher S2 are just pieces of a jigsaw puzzle (did you spot the reference :v) put in very weird places waiting for us to put them together and determinate the best, we have our timeline guy in here, BEJT, that will come for sure a good conclusion to all of this.

      Producers might think other thing, yes, but that doesn't mean that is the truth. I am very sure that this season is going to be set on Sprinf 2018, which month? Will see. But there is nothing to worry about. It is not a mess as everyone claims. Infinity War did really put some people complaining about the timeline and if TV shows still connected after all...

      @BEJT, there are some evidence posted on the The Comic Board web site, while I don't agree at all which what they are saying about Punisher S2 taking place on August-September 2017 (sighs), there enough eviden for you and me to make an idea of when are things set.

      I agree that I don't think Marvel TV necessarily think like that, abiding by a laid out incorrect timeline in the way that it sometimes seems like Marvel Studios do.

      I think when Protego Maxima said calculations he was talking more broadly about our weighing up and working out. I guess it's still calculating even when it's not purely based on a set of equations and things, because we're still going "2015 + 1 year so 2016" etc..

      While Jessica Jones quite clearly placing itself in Spring 2017 was definitely helpful for us in terms of further solidifying The Punisher: Season 1 as late 2016, I don't think it's necessarily confirmation that internally at Marvel Television they know what they're doing timeline-wise with Netflix, because the The Punisher people and the Jessica Jones people aren't necessarily working together, there's only a few overseers of these shows, and ultimately a good chunk of it comes down to just props. This kind of works off the assumption that Jeph Loeb and co. are intentionally placing each season from like a document, which I think is an optimistic chance at best. And considering the The Punisher and the Jessica Jones people aren't necessarily working together, there's especially a low chance that The Punisher's marketing team and the Jessica Jones people are working together. The Jessica Jones thing was an encouraging sign because it seemed pretty firmly and intentionally placed and things were looking up, like they might have a handle on it, but then it turned out they didn't😂. Come to think of it, Jessica Jones has probably been consistently the least problematic Netflix show timeline-wise, so maybe the people working on that show just care a bit more, which is a good sign for Season 3.

      I don't think Protego Maxima was arguing the producers' incorrect impression was the truth, he was just explaining like I do what he thinks might be the reason behind the mistake.

      I do like that Infinity War has made some more people realise, I think, that the TV shows aren't all set in real time.

      As for The Comic Board, I haven't gone on it in a month or two and don't feel like I can at the moment. Whenever I fall behind in responding to any threads, I find it stressful that people might be saying something that I want to chip in about but feel I can't until I've caught up and know that that will take a while. So I just get stressed reading The Comic Board and wanting to contribute but feeling unable to because it's just too messy for me to deal with to respond to some new things but not some older things. I have to feel caught up. And I've just obviously focused on the wiki and I make sure I respond here every few days so I don't get too stressed about conversations happening that I want to contribute to but feel I can't yet. I'm interested in what made them think August-September 2017, but obviously we're not going to go with that. If there's any evidence that isn't being mentioned here that is there, can you pass it on?

      Rman823 wrote: Their placement makes no sense for the simple fact Karen’s appearance references DDS3 which places it before Punisher Season 2

      Glad to see you managed to get posting on here, and thanks for your The Punisher spots.

      Right, yeah, which means that again it's all chronological. I haven't got to Karen's appearance yet but I saw here that Deborah Ann Woll said it is after Daredevil: Season 3.

      I think, last time I was on there, they were deciding to move Daredevil: Season 3 to early 2017 rather than late, despite the election and the fact that Karen is mentioned as still being a reporter in Luke Cage: Season 2 (which they also have in Summer 2017) and Foggy is still working for Chao and Benowitz in Luke Cage: Season 2 and that the Iron Fist: Season 2 (which they have in early 2018) official synopsis says Matt is still presumed dead. I think that decision came from the fact that they have Daredevil: Season 1 placed in late 2014 (based on the "2 years" line and a supposed newspaper date in the finale which I found HD screencaps for and personally could see no hint of a date but whatever) and so with Season 3 being "2 years" later they felt it couldn't be later than early 2017, plus it worked better with The Defenders. So anyway, that would explain why they have put The Punisher in Summer 2017 despite it being after Daredevil: Season 3.

      Assassin1and2 wrote: I mean of course it is, Netflix shows are usually in order of release

      So far, they always have been. Granted there's some overlap with Daredevil: Season 2/Luke Cage: Season 1 and Iron Fist: Season 2/Daredevil: Season 3, but when you look at the bulks of those seasons, they're still in order (the bulk of Luke Cage: Season 1 is after the bulk of Daredevil: Season 2, the bulk of Daredevil: Season 3 is after the bulk of Iron Fist: Season 2).

      Rman823 wrote: And set around their filming dates. Which is why Spring 2018 makes much more sense to me than Summer 2017.

      Yeah, that's not always true, but tends to be roughly. I don't think the timeline placement has ever been more than 6 or so months different from the time of filming.


      The Punisher: Season 1 Kandahar (additional)

      So, I had a thought when I was rewatching Home. As Madani talks to Castle, she says, "You served many years as a Marine Force Recon?" He replies, "I did." "But that isn't where you served your last mission?" "No. I was part of a covert CIA operation. It was called Cerberus." And then he talks about that. I think at the time we said, "Well we know that just can't work because in Kandahar we see that the end of his time in Afghanistan is November due to it being Frank's birthday but we know from Kinbaku that he got back in early April. It must be that the events in Kandahar were a few years prior and he served some more normal terms as a marine after," and we must have come up with some sort of excuse for that line, then placing the Kandahar events based on the Bruce Springsteen tickets, in 2011. But my process has improved in the last 14 months and I think that line is pretty explicit and hard to avoid.

      So I was wondering, what if Kandahar was indeed his last mission as is stated (it also just feels more right, it's weird that Madani is investigating Zubair's death 5 years later and weird that Castle went back to the marines as normal after and weird that it took Cerberus 3-and-a-half years to follow up on killing the Castles and everything is just played like it's much more recent than 5 years ago), and Operation Cerberus finished in November 2014. Then when everything went wrong in Kandahar earlier than was intended, he was transferred to a normal marine unit for 3-and-a-half months to just see out his term much less eventfully, before returning in early April 2015. I feel this works much better and satisfies that line, which is a pretty explicit and important line.

      If you guys agree then I'll rework all those flashback dates on the draft page, because they're reliant on each other. But I'm definitely thinking this is the right choice.

      Also, on rewatching Memento Mori, I've decided that yeah, that time with Billy at the carousel isn't the same day the family were killed. Because there is later some very quick flashbacks as Frank approaches the carousel, when Frank is thinking about the day his family died (it's definitely played more explicitly as the day they died), and Frank Jr. and Lisa are in different clothes. So yeah, as we had guessed but now I feel we can be settled on, I think that earlier scene us just a time in probably late 2013, a year-and-a-half before their deaths/a little bit before Billy and Frank go to Afghanistan, which I feel works better anyway because (and I think these are the reasons we decided this way previously anyway) it's sort of played more as a happy time in the past and not the very last day, like less than an hour before (in Frank's dreams, Maria wakes him at something like 10:30 so they couldn't have got to the park before 11, and the attack was just after midday), plus when Frank is asking him if he was involved/present for the massacre, it would be a bit weird if Billy had been with them less than an hour prior and Frank doesn't bring that up. And, as mentioned, there isn't really the time for that scene considering between 10:30ish (I think that's the time Maria says, granted it's in a dream so it could have actually been earlier in the day but it would be a bit weird if Frank was misremembering that one detail) and 12:00 they had to wake up the kids (they're said to still be asleep), get to Central Park, go on the carousel, sit for their picnic, and then be killed. Billy would have had to have joined them and spent some time with them (it would be weird to just be there for like 15 minutes) and got safely away a while before midday in that time.

      So yeah, that scene is likely late 2013, if we're taking Frank's time in Afghanistan to be late 2013-April 2015. Again, I'll work out the specifics.


      Apology (additional)

      Finally, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry if I've been a bit snappy or controlling at times, especially to Marvelus. I know there's been times when I've undone some work and I've stepped in to clarify Marvelus' statements at times (like on the discussions feature, I think I was just feeling stressed and thought the comment could be misconstrued as speaking out against the wiki timeline so I stepped in even though it probably wasn't actually necessary) and I've not been as patient as I should be with people and taken a bit too much of a sort of authoritative overseeing role.

      I get stressed particularly when new Netflix seasons are coming out because of the workload and the fact they've come out at inconvenient times for the last 8 months. I really don't like this all-at-once release model, I get things spoiled if I don't get through it fast enough and I feel like I'm letting people down because I'm not ready to talk about it yet, and I have to do all those notes which I'm always really proud of and I'm glad I made them more thorough because it means I have everything I need and never have to go back and do more, but they are draining. I'm going to miss the Netflix shows, but I'm not going to miss the all-at-once release.

      I also never intended to take the sort of leadership role here, and while I'm happy to do that, I also feel bad because I don't want you guys to feel inferior. Like when Marvelus talks about how ultimately it comes down to me and things, I get a bit worried that I'm coming across as a dictator who has the final say on everything. So I'm sorry guys if I ever do seem like that. I'm just doing my best on this wiki to wrangle the various threads and users on the timeline discussion and reply to everyone, manage things, catch up on things, do all sorts of notes, calculations, and blogs, and I guess keep an eye on as much as I can of what's going on timeline-wise because that's just kind of the way I am, my OCD brain needs to keep things under control and keep them thorough and accounted for and sorted. There's one other thing I want to check is OK with Marvelus but I'll do that on our mini one-on-one chat.

      I've finished proofreading Runaways: Season 1 and writing up the whole of The Punisher: Season 1 which I'm very proud of and also allows me to progress with The Punisher: Season 2 as mentioned, as well as the fact that now my exams are over, I've still got a couple more fully free days. So I'm feeling a little bit less stressed now and am a bit happier with the pace I'm getting through things.

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    • Not timeline related but I'm (finally) making my way through Punisher Season 2 (I think I'm on Episode 8 or 9? Maybe 10?) and as someone who's studying psychology, I am so thoroughly disgusted at the gross violation of a certain someone's Hippocratic Oath. I would not be upset one bit if that person goes to jail and/or dies.

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    • Hello all! First, I would just like to say that you've all been doing a FANTASTIC job! Second, how can I get involved?

      I found this timeline a while ago when I was first contemplating making a video that summarizes the events of the MCU in chronological order. This was back before Infinity War came out. I had to put it on the backburner, though. Now I'm working on having it done in time fore Endgame (fingers crossed). What do you need help with besides Punisher S2? Is there a global list that shows everything in the timeline that needs work? Or is it just page by page? (I saw a rewrite notice on the 2018 page but nothing on the main Timeline page that alerted to it.)

      When I was doing some very preliminary work I noticed that citations didn't include any information for where in the source events took place, e.g. timecodes, approximate timeframe or chapters. I'm sure there's a good reason, but for someone who wants to make a video, I have to say, I was a little annoyed to discover it. Oh, well. XD

      Btw, I haven't seen Runaways S2 or Cloak & Dagger yet. I'm working on it, though!

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    • The Punisher: Season 2 (Edward Zachary Sunrose, additional)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Not timeline related but I'm (finally) making my way through Punisher Season 2 (I think I'm on Episode 8 or 9? Maybe 10?) and as someone who's studying psychology, I am so thoroughly disgusted at the gross violation of a certain someone's Hippocratic Oath. I would not be upset one bit if that person goes to jail and/or dies.

      Fairly sure I know what you're talking about, and I absolutely agree it disgusted me too. Maybe not about them dying but I hope they get arrested. I was slightly concerned early on that it was going to happen and then dismayed when it did.

      OK guys, I'm as far as Episode 9 now and I'm fairly sure it's May 2018. If you see the bottom of my notes message for my observations from first viewing of Episode 5-9, you'll see why. I'll readdress this once I've finished the season, but I think we have a few options, and I have no particular preference.

      1. Move Infinity War to June and place The Punisher in May.
      2. Keep Infinity War where it is and decide that, Endgame permitting, The Punisher is an acceptable exception (especially since we haven't had a specific confirmation the way we have had for most of the other Netflix stuff, we're just going by Loeb's blanket comment). We don't put the The Punisher events on the 2018 page until we're sure after Endgame that it is OK to put it there, and if anyone asks in the next 3 months we tell them, "It places itself in May 2018 but we can't place it there with certainty until Endgame comes out because we don't know if the Snap is undone" (and the events pages and dates of death for The Punisher: Season 2 are just written as "Spring 2018" for now).
      3. Just wait out the 3 months until Endgame before we make a decision on how this impacts Infinity War because it could be kind of pointless making a big Infinity War move only for it to have been wrong and then have to move it again to a more certain position. Because even if we go with options 1 or 2, when Endgame comes out, we could then just have to revisit options 1 and 2 again anyway. And again in this case, we don't put the The Punisher events on the 2018 page for now, and if anyone asks in the next 3 months we tell them, "It places itself in May 2018 but we haven't put that down yet just because there's a problem with how that affects Infinity War that we can't resolve until we have more evidence after Endgame" (and the events pages and dates of death for The Punisher: Season 2 are just written as "Spring 2018" for now).
      4. There's the option of just placing The Punisher: Season 2 earlier, before late March 2018, but this is the only one I feel more strongly about - I don't think we should do this. The other three I have no preference and am not sure, but I don't think we should take this option because it's not like Infinity War is set in stone and this is actively ignoring the evidence for the sake of a comment that we've also discussed being flexible as well.


      Offer to Help (Ozzzo)

      Ozzzo wrote: Hello all! First, I would just like to say that you've all been doing a FANTASTIC job! Second, how can I get involved?

      I found this timeline a while ago when I was first contemplating making a video that summarizes the events of the MCU in chronological order. This was back before Infinity War came out. I had to put it on the backburner, though. Now I'm working on having it done in time fore Endgame (fingers crossed). What do you need help with besides Punisher S2? Is there a global list that shows everything in the timeline that needs work? Or is it just page by page? (I saw a rewrite notice on the 2018 page but nothing on the main Timeline page that alerted to it.)

      When I was doing some very preliminary work I noticed that citations didn't include any information for where in the source events took place, e.g. timecodes, approximate timeframe or chapters. I'm sure there's a good reason, but for someone who wants to make a video, I have to say, I was a little annoyed to discover it. Oh, well. XD

      Btw, I haven't seen Runaways S2 or Cloak & Dagger yet. I'm working on it, though!

      Hi, thank you for your offer. CirUmeUela also recently offered to help and so I got to thinking about how I can advise anyone who wants to help on typing up the shows. And I had an idea.

      I'm thinking I might start a small spin-off thread, with a link to that in the top message of this thread, and on that thread, I will basically provide the list I am working my way down for write-ups. My list includes ones that haven't yet been written up, and the ones that have been written by Marvelus but need some checking before they get posted. Then basically, if anyone wants to write up any of the ones that haven't been written up yet, you can on that thread say "I'm happy to take X: Season Y, Episodes A-B". That way we don't get any clashes between who's doing what, knowing what each other are doing, and then if anyone wants to write any of it up, they can do it on the draft pages which we'll provide links to. I know some people have been a bit nervous to write this stuff because they don't know how to do the references and things, but you can leave that to me. That's what the draft pages are for, checking everything's correct before it goes. If you just do your best on there, I can clean anything up. Any writing up is greatly appreciated because it takes me anywhere from like 20%-60% as long to check something than write it up.

      In response about the citations, the specifics of the time codes isn't something we can do, sorry. It's just too much of a time commitment and it's not in line with the wiki's referencing policy. As for the quality of the references in general, I know they're kind of messy and there's things on the pages before 2014 in particular that have been placed before our time or without our noticing and so are kind of wrong or random or weird. So sorry about that as well, one of the things I'll be working on is combing through all the pages to weed out any of those things and clean up the placements and references etc..

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    • Hey, BEJT!

      I'm still trying to get myself oriented on the site. A page like you suggest would be very helpful. One page with links to all of the other "behind the scenes" timeline pages/resources would be awesome! As of yet I havent been able to locate them to see your guys' process.

      The more I think about the citations thing, the more it wouldn't make sense because there would be way to many if timestamps were provided for everything.

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    • Ozzzo wrote: Hey, BEJT!

      I'm still trying to get myself oriented on the site. A page like you suggest would be very helpful. One page with links to all of the other "behind the scenes" timeline pages/resources would be awesome! As of yet I havent been able to locate them to see your guys' process.

      Great. Thank you for offering to help! I'll try to get that set up in the next day or two and I'll include the links as you say.

      Ozzzo wrote: The more I think about the citations thing, the more it wouldn't make sense because there would be way to many if timestamps were provided for everything.

      Yeah that's another problem with it, you'd have a new citation for every single bullet point. Thanks for understanding, sorry if it makes things a bit harder.

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    • BEJT, that page sounds like a good idea, so we know who will be working on what. I'm assuming that most of the stuff we do is putting synopses of the events on the timeline pages? So once we have calculated dates from you for the events, we just write those up?

      I'll post my notes for Punisher season 2 here later today probably. Or maybe I'll just wait because you haven't seen it all yet BEJT.

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    • I think this has been brought up and we really can't say anything until the movie comes out but one thing people have forgotten about regarding Fury in Captain Marvel is Winter Soldier. The initial assumption is he will lose the eye in Captain Marvel not to mention he seems to be in low rank.

      But Winter Soldier through his friendship with Pierce indicates he was at least in combat rank and by the time we see them in that photo he still has the eye despite he looks more closer to his current day appearance. So when does all that take place?

      Some people have also argued about whether he really knew Howard and are assuming it's a lie one of many he's told throughout the years.

      But again we'll have to wait and see. Really as I've said before this and the flashback stuff for Ant-Man/Ant-Man and the Wasp make me want a prequel about them and also S.H.I.E.L.D. We had the opportunity with Agent Carter but sadly we didn't get far enough to tackle it.

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    • BEJT wrote: Move Infinity War to June and place The Punisher in May.

      I like this option

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    • BEJT, not sure where exactly in May you're deciding to place The Punisher Season 2. But, if we go by Ant-Man & The Wasp's April 30th computer date, I think some point in May could be another option for Infinity War. 

      Ant-Man & The Wasp would be Late April-Early May.  The Punisher Season 2 would be May (perhaps there's some overlap with Ant-Man & The Wasp) . The back end of A.O.S. Season 5 and Infinity War would somewhere in May after The Punisher Season 2 ends. 

      Right now do you have the entire season of The Punisher in May because if need be I think it could easily start in Late April? 

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    • You need to read his notes. I trust in him for the May placement.

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    • @Rman823, mostly, the problem with June placement comes for Spider-Man: Far From Home, we know it will take place on July, we know it will begin minutes after Avengers: Endgame, it means there is not a big gap between AE and SFFH, either way, AIW and AE will get onto June 2018.

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    • Marvelus wrote: @Rman823, mostly, the problem with June placement comes for Spider-Man: Far From Home, we know it will take place on July, we know it will begin minutes after Avengers: Endgame, it means there is not a big gap between AE and SFFH, either way, AIW and AE will get onto June 2018.

      But we don’t know for certain how “minutes later” is handled. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some sort of time jump. Until Far From Home is released, we’re all just speculating anyway.

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    • Yeah, but we have Ant-Man and the Wasp evidence, which places Inifnity Ward and itself on June 2018, that is evidence. We kind of "speculate" sometimes when we don't have all things on the table, but in the aftermath we got it pretty right.

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    • Steve993 wrote:
      I think this has been brought up and we really can't say anything until the movie comes out but one thing people have forgotten about regarding Fury in Captain Marvel is Winter Soldier. The initial assumption is he will lose the eye in Captain Marvel not to mention he seems to be in low rank.

      But Winter Soldier through his friendship with Pierce indicates he was at least in combat rank and by the time we see them in that photo he still has the eye despite he looks more closer to his current day appearance. So when does all that take place?

      Some people have also argued about whether he really knew Howard and are assuming it's a lie one of many he's told throughout the years.

      But again we'll have to wait and see. Really as I've said before this and the flashback stuff for Ant-Man/Ant-Man and the Wasp make me want a prequel about them and also S.H.I.E.L.D. We had the opportunity with Agent Carter but sadly we didn't get far enough to tackle it.

      That is a good point. I was rewatching Winter Soldier yesterday and was wondering the same thing. I wonder when exactly Pierce promoted Fury and does he mean he promoted Fury to Director of SHIELD? What exactly was Pierce's position within SHIELD? I know that he was the secretary of the World Security Council, but was he secretary at the time he met Fury? It's all a little confusing and I'm not sure how it's all gonna fit together when Captain Marvel comes out.

      Edit: I just checked the timeline pages and the Bogota incident where Fury saved Pierce's daughter isn't even on them, so it seems we don't have an estimated date for that on the wiki. I guess it was probably before the events of Captain Marvel and he was promoted to Director after Captain Marvel's events, or Pierce simply promoted him to a different position. Not sure how he was able to promote him, was he even a part of SHIELD? He said he worked for the "state department", whatever that means.

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    • The To-Do List (CirUmeUela)

      CirUmeUela wrote: BEJT, that page sounds like a good idea, so we know who will be working on what. I'm assuming that most of the stuff we do is putting synopses of the events on the timeline pages? So once we have calculated dates from you for the events, we just write those up?

      That would be great yeah. Even without dates things can be written up with like a "Day 1" "Day 2" format like Marvelus did for Runaways: Season 2, so that it's ready for when there are dates. But yeah, I think that would be the best you guys can help, if you're OK with doing a little bit of that (any is a bonus so feel zero pressure). Basically just writing up the events of the episodes in bullet point form, reasonably succinctly (Marvelus is better at that than me). If you look for example at Runaways: Season 1 in late 2017 and The Punisher: Season 1 in late 2016 which we just finished posting, that sort of thing, but if possible a little bit briefer just because I'm not very good at being brief.


      The Punisher: Season 2, and How It Affects Avengers: Infinity War (CirUmeUela, Marvelus, Rman823)

      CirUmeUela wrote: I'll post my notes for Punisher season 2 here later today probably. Or maybe I'll just wait because you haven't seen it all yet BEJT.

      I should finish the season tomorrow I think, so if it's OK by you I would appreciate you holding off just a little longer (even if I've sadly had a major thing spoiled).

      Marvelus wrote:

      BEJT wrote: Move Infinity War to June and place The Punisher in May.

      I like this option

      Yeah, I just don't know. For 6 months now, every time I think, "Agh, realistically, it just has to end up going to June," I then also think, "But there's just no way that works with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.." So every time now that I think option 1 might be best, I then tell myself no it's not. It's such a tricky decision. I then find myself leaning to option 3, but I don't like parts of that either. On the one hand, it avoids the tricky decision because the whole problem is that there's not enough evidence to go for one particular option (if there were more evidence decisively placing it I would feel more comfortable with making the necessary sacrifices either way). It also means that I don't end up doing a bunch of extra work (having to rework all the Infinity War timings all over again because of the new sunrise/sunset times (shouldn't take as long as the first time but still will take time), changing references, calculating Ragnarok again, recalculating the Asgardian ageing again, redoing the things related to Asgardian ageing, recalculating the Maximoffs' dates of birth because it impacts the calculation since Wanda is in Infinity War, changing people's articles to reflect this update... it's a lot) for nothing because we just have to change it all over again a couple of months later. On the other hand, no change is still making a decision - it still means that the 2018 page says March, implying that's still our decided stance. I don't particularly want to do option 2 because I don't like ignoring Loeb's comment and because we don't know if it's feasible, but then it's not like the release order should affect the timeline decisions, everything is equally valid just Endgame hasn't come out yet, which takes me back to option 3, waiting, but then, again, there's the problems with that option.

      The best thing would be if we could just put all the Ant-Man and the Wasp, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and Infinity War stuff under the title "Spring" on the 2018 page until Endgame comes out, which would allow us to take option 3 without the problem of still definitively saying. But then we wouldn't be able to distinguish between days, because we won't have numbers for them, and then it will all be a massive lump under "Spring". Maybe "Wednesday 1", "Thursday 1", "Friday 1", "Saturday 1", "Sunday 1", "Monday 2", "Tuesday 2", etc.? Just temporarily? Agh I don't know...

      The reason I've said Spring 2018 to people for months now is because Infinity War is between Wednesday, March 28th and Thursday, June 28th which is almost exactly the official span of spring. What is more apt is to say that Ant-Man and the Wasp is definitively Spring 2018 because Scott's sentence ends somewhere between Wednesday, March 21st and Wednesday, June 20th, pretty much exactly the official span of spring. I guess because late June for Infinity War is a strong possibility I shouldn't really say Spring 2018 because it's not just "anywhere in that range" it's "a few possible points in this range, including one strong one distinctly out of spring", but it's just been the easiest thing to say.

      This has been constantly on my mind for 6 months. It's so tricky. I just wish Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. didn't have Yo-Yo still recovering or the problem of the rift reopening or the "months" line which really, really tie it to December 2017 (along with the other things mentioned before).

      Rman823 wrote: BEJT, not sure where exactly in May you're deciding to place The Punisher Season 2. But, if we go by Ant-Man & The Wasp's April 30th computer date, I think some point in May could be another option for Infinity War. 

      Ant-Man & The Wasp would be Late April-Early May.  The Punisher Season 2 would be May (perhaps there's some overlap with Ant-Man & The Wasp) . The back end of A.O.S. Season 5 and Infinity War would somewhere in May after The Punisher Season 2 ends. 

      Right now do you have the entire season of The Punisher in May because if need be I think it could easily start in Late April? 

      Well can't decide for sure yet because I haven't finished it, but it looks like there's a while between that May calendar and the end of the season, plus there's the "13" which doesn't look like it can work for June (as you pointed out, it seems to say Wednesday which would make it June - but I don't think it's possible that it's at least 13 days at that point since the bank robbery) but could be fudged a little as being May 13th. So it looks like at the very earliest, the season ends (I have 4 more episodes to go though so don't know how much time they span) in mid-to-late May, so Infinity War would be absolute earliest late May/early June.

      I have it in my mind like there's three options for Infinity War: Wednesday, March 28th-Thursday, March 29th, Wednesday, May 9th-Thursday, May 10th, and Wednesday, June 27th-Thursday, June 28th. But you make a great point: actually, it's "there's three options for Ant-Man and the Wasp: Scott's sentence ending on Wednesday, March 21st, Wednesday, May 2nd/Thursday, May 3rd (depending on how the 4/30/2018 date is interpreted), and Wednesday, June 20th". And then Infinity War is just "at least a week after that, no later than June 28th due to Peter's school being in term". And yeah, we have it as 1 week later to get it as early as possible, but you're right, potentially Ant-Man and the Wasp could move to the April date and then the gap between it and Infinity War, even if it makes the fact that they still think they're under house arrest during Infinity War less plausible, could in fact be more like 4 weeks later in late May/early June, allowing The Punisher: Season 2 to slot in without pushing Infinity War all the way to that third and final possible placement in late June. But it does feel a bit like if it's being pushed right the way to 3 or 4 weeks before that option, it's almost like we should just take the June option at that point, since it works significantly better with Ant-Man and the Wasp.

      Aggghhhhhh, I just want more evidence. I'm genuinely considering that "Spring" (or maybe "Spring/Summer") and "Monday 1", "Tuesday 1", etc. option to bide our time until Endgame. It might be the best option.

      Marvelus wrote: You need to read his notes. I trust in him for the May placement.

      Thanks. Well I wasn't decisively saying the whole thing is in May, because I can't be decisive until I've finished and because I was more just referring to the bulk in the middle.

      Marvelus wrote: @Rman823, mostly, the problem with June placement comes for Spider-Man: Far From Home, we know it will take place on July, we know it will begin minutes after Avengers: Endgame, it means there is not a big gap between AE and SFFH, either way, AIW and AE will get onto June 2018.

      Well that's not the problem with June 2018 (it would actually imply June 2018), and it's not the reason June 2018 has been suggested, that's Ant-Man and the Wasp. It's just something we've mentioned in discussion, but it doesn't factor in to any of our decisions yet because it's just guessing about a hypothetical.

      Rman823 wrote: But we don’t know for certain how “minutes later” is handled. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some sort of time jump. Until Far From Home is released, we’re all just speculating anyway.

      Yeah I agree here, this is what I said before. We can't factor it into any decision-making at the moment other than to say "But we don't yet have all the information" because it's all guesswork about a hypothetical moment in a future film.

      Marvelus wrote: Yeah, but we have Ant-Man and the Wasp evidence, which places Inifnity Ward and itself on June 2018, that is evidence. We kind of "speculate" sometimes when we don't have all things on the table, but in the aftermath we got it pretty right.

      Yeah that's the evidence. And sure we can speculate, but we just can't factor future speculation into any decisions/calculations.


      Nick Fury (Steve993, CirUmeUela)

      Steve993 wrote: I think this has been brought up and we really can't say anything until the movie comes out but one thing people have forgotten about regarding Fury in Captain Marvel is Winter Soldier. The initial assumption is he will lose the eye in Captain Marvel not to mention he seems to be in low rank.

      But Winter Soldier through his friendship with Pierce indicates he was at least in combat rank and by the time we see them in that photo he still has the eye despite he looks more closer to his current day appearance. So when does all that take place?

      Some people have also argued about whether he really knew Howard and are assuming it's a lie one of many he's told throughout the years.

      But again we'll have to wait and see. Really as I've said before this and the flashback stuff for Ant-Man/Ant-Man and the Wasp make me want a prequel about them and also S.H.I.E.L.D. We had the opportunity with Agent Carter but sadly we didn't get far enough to tackle it.

      Yeah I joked with friends for a while about how everyone just assumes that because Fury has his eye, we will see how he loses it - because that's just the nature of prequel films, where every significant moment in a character's past happened to occur in the same week. But Samuel L. Jackson confirmed recently that we will see him lose his eye.

      As for The Winter Soldier, that's one of the only films I'm not too knowledgeable on. Around Ant-Man was when I joined the wiki, so all the films prior to that were the ones where I wasn't involved in initially placing things. Phase One I went back and did a lot of thorough work on in 2017. Thor: The Dark World I rewatched before Ragnarok and happened to have the time to properly go through and check the time zones and everything for the 2013 page. But Iron Man 3, The Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Age of Ultron are the only four films where, while I know about the evidence in those films pertaining to their placement in present day and pertaining to major events, and I'm aware of there being things like that photo with Pierce, those four films are the ones where I have never actually checked that the wiki has it right in terms of time zones and how many days pass and learning the film's timeline details like the back of my hand. I don't know, I just never got around to doing that for those films. So right now, without having the time to check, I couldn't tell you my thoughts on the whole Pierce thing.

      I don't see why Fury knowing Howard would have to be a lie, although I guess if he was still in a desk job 4 years after Howard died then maybe he didn't know Howard as well as he claims to in Iron Man 2.

      CirUmeUela wrote: That is a good point. I was rewatching Winter Soldier yesterday and was wondering the same thing. I wonder when exactly Pierce promoted Fury and does he mean he promoted Fury to Director of SHIELD? What exactly was Pierce's position within SHIELD? I know that he was the secretary of the World Security Council, but was he secretary at the time he met Fury? It's all a little confusing and I'm not sure how it's all gonna fit together when Captain Marvel comes out.

      Edit: I just checked the timeline pages and the Bogota incident where Fury saved Pierce's daughter isn't even on them, so it seems we don't have an estimated date for that on the wiki. I guess it was probably before the events of Captain Marvel and he was promoted to Director after Captain Marvel's events, or Pierce simply promoted him to a different position. Not sure how he was able to promote him, was he even a part of SHIELD? He said he worked for the "state department", whatever that means.

      As I've just mentioned, yeah, I haven't done thorough work on The Winter Soldier and so never placed that stuff, and I guess no one before my time placed it either. Will probably revisit that in March I guess.

      I think Pierce is sort of like a chairman/governor-type thing for S.H.I.E.L.D.. He's not an actual member but he oversees them, he had the same alpha clearance as Fury in The Winter Soldier.


      Kandahar (additional)

      BEJT wrote: So, I had a thought when I was rewatching Home. As Madani talks to Castle, she says, "You served many years as a Marine Force Recon?" He replies, "I did." "But that isn't where you served your last mission?" "No. I was part of a covert CIA operation. It was called Cerberus." And then he talks about that. I think at the time we said, "Well we know that just can't work because in Kandahar we see that the end of his time in Afghanistan is November due to it being Frank's birthday but we know from Kinbaku that he got back in early April. It must be that the events in Kandahar were a few years prior and he served some more normal terms as a marine after," and we must have come up with some sort of excuse for that line, then placing the Kandahar events based on the Bruce Springsteen tickets, in 2011. But my process has improved in the last 14 months and I think that line is pretty explicit and hard to avoid.

      So I was wondering, what if Kandahar was indeed his last mission as is stated (it also just feels more right, it's weird that Madani is investigating Zubair's death 5 years later and weird that Castle went back to the marines as normal after and weird that it took Cerberus 3-and-a-half years to follow up on killing the Castles and everything is just played like it's much more recent than 5 years ago), and Operation Cerberus finished in November 2014. Then when everything went wrong in Kandahar earlier than was intended, he was transferred to a normal marine unit for 3-and-a-half months to just see out his term much less eventfully, before returning in early April 2015. I feel this works much better and satisfies that line, which is a pretty explicit and important line.

      If you guys agree then I'll rework all those flashback dates on the draft page, because they're reliant on each other. But I'm definitely thinking this is the right choice.

      I've reworked those dates and found some more things. One drawback: Frank says he has 29 days to go on his birthday. But after attacking Rawlins, I don't think it's too hard to believe that plans changed, if he was sent elsewhere for a few months instead of still being allowed to return 4 weeks later. Some more positives: Billy says (lies) to Mahoney in Episode 10 that he hasn't seen Frank in a couple of years. A couple of years prior was late 2014, and with this now in place, the last time Frank saw Billy before his family's deaths might well have been late 2014, so Russo's story would line up (he's clearly saying something that would otherwise be true). Also, Madani was in Kandahar 2012-2015. While we had sort of fudged that as "She went after Zubair was killed", it makes much more sense that Zubair was killed in that window because they were partners, so while they were working together in Kandahar from 2012-2015.

      It just overall works significantly better I think, and that Madani line in Episode 12 I think just can't be ignored.

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    • You are right that moving Infinity War into June 2018 was going to cause a lot of things to move, that is why I suggested to write only the events from the TV shows that have a defined date.

      I have finally written Jessica Jones S2, needs some correction. Afterwards, it is ready to get its way into the 2017 article. I will proceed to write Luke Cage S2, Iron Fist S2 and Daredevil S3 into the draft we have. And take my time to finish The Punisher and watch Cloak and Dagger and help with the latter's placement.

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    • BEJT wrote: Yeah I joked with friends for a while about how everyone just assumes that because Fury has his eye, we will see how he loses it - because that's just the nature of prequel films, where every significant moment in a character's past happened to occur in the same week. But Samuel L. Jackson confirmed recently that we will see him lose his eye...So right now, without having the time to check, I couldn't tell you my thoughts on the whole Pierce thing...I don't see why Fury knowing Howard would have to be a lie, although I guess if he was still in a desk job 4 years after Howard died then maybe he didn't know Howard as well as he claims to in Iron Man 2.

      CirUmeUela wrote: That is a good point. I was rewatching Winter Soldier yesterday and was wondering the same thing. I wonder when exactly Pierce promoted Fury and does he mean he promoted Fury to Director of SHIELD? What exactly was Pierce's position within SHIELD? I know that he was the secretary of the World Security Council, but was he secretary at the time he met Fury? It's all a little confusing and I'm not sure how it's all gonna fit together when Captain Marvel comes out.

      Edit: I just checked the timeline pages and the Bogota incident where Fury saved Pierce's daughter isn't even on them, so it seems we don't have an estimated date for that on the wiki. I guess it was probably before the events of Captain Marvel and he was promoted to Director after Captain Marvel's events, or Pierce simply promoted him to a different position. Not sure how he was able to promote him, was he even a part of SHIELD? He said he worked for the "state department", whatever that means.

      There is the clue about how the enemy forces were the ELN. I never looked into their history too much but they were known to be focused on ransom and extortion in the 90s, peaked in the mid-90s then entered a period of decline by the late 90s. I thought that photo was just a ceremony of Pierce recognizing Fury's efforts in Bogota. Was there like 2 photos of Fury and Pierce and another that Fury dated as a Joint Chiefs of Staff meeting in 1992? It seemed like after a couple years, when an agent starts getting into command positions, they get stationed in South America (Coulson got Cusco in 2002) in for a bit then back to the States. I always thought that Bogota was in the early 90s and as a result of his strategy and saving the people, he was promoted a little sooner than usual. And now with the new info from Captain Marvel, I see how Bogota could have dovetailed into him getting a position as threat assessment back in the States. Pierce was probably still Under Secretary at the State Department at the time and made it happen.

      I don't think Fury was made Director until the 2000s which probably happened right after Pierce was promoted to Secretary. It seem like the duties in the State Department overlapped with the WSC or they had him as their fixer (aka enforcer), and that gave him more oversight over S.H.I.E.L.D., probably part of HYDRA's plans to clinch their grasp. I never got around to it but I wondered if you could serve a position in a U.S. bureau or department and also serve a position in a global body like the UN.

      BEJT wrote: I think Pierce is sort of like a chairman/governor-type thing for S.H.I.E.L.D.. He's not an actual member but he oversees them, he had the same alpha clearance as Fury in The Winter Soldier.

      Yes, I don't think they ever stated when the World Security was founded (I guess after the Cold War ended based on the ethnicity of the council) but thanks to the AOS episode "The Things We Bury", in Whitehall's backstory scenes (stamped 44 years ago), we learned in 1989 that Pierce was 'Under Secretary' when it's stated he granted Whitehall medical parole. So that implies he was in the State Department in the #2 spot, Secretary being the top spot in the State Department.
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    • I finished the season. It ends with a "three months later" scene (which, sidenote, I thought was dreadful and tasteless and let down an otherwise great finale) so at the very least, one scene is set after Infinity War. Will discuss more later.

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    • Prioritising by How Defined the Date Is (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: You are right that moving Infinity War into June 2018 was going to cause a lot of things to move, that is why I suggested to write only the events from the TV shows that have a defined date.

      Right, but those things aren't linked. If it was "Don't work on calculating the order until when it's more set in stone", that would make sense because it means the work doesn't have to be done twice. But that work's already been done, it was done in summer and was important to get done A.S.A.P.. The write-ups aren't the problem because it's barely any extra work to shuffle a few bullet points if things changed, the workload comes from all the working out of how those things need to be moved, which needs to be done whether or not the events are already written up.

      That was the point I was trying to make before when I said that for me personally, one of the reasons I won't prioritise by how set in stone they are is because I don't personally see much correlation between "how firm the placement is" and "reason to wait to write it up". The work needs to be done anyway and if the placement changes, all that involves is a quick edit to shift some placements.

      I can see that there's maybe something in that idea, but personally, I find the correlation negligible. The write-ups just need to get done, it's a backlog, and I just personally feel I need to work through it as such. Obviously I don't have a problem with using that as a system or anything - of course not - but just, I see no personal advantage to it.


      Netflix Write-Ups (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: I have finally written Jessica Jones S2, needs some correction. Afterwards, it is ready to get its way into the 2017 article. I will proceed to write Luke Cage S2, Iron Fist S2 and Daredevil S3 into the draft we have. And take my time to finish The Punisher and watch Cloak and Dagger and help with the latter's placement.

      Thanks man. I'm glad you're willing to do all that Netflix stuff, though if you look at the thread about the write-ups, I don't necessarily think you should claim all of them yet just because if someone else is willing to work on, say, Iron Fist, while you're working on Luke Cage, then it will get done in half the time.

      But thank you so much. Your effort to write up so much so fast is really great.


      Nick Fury at S.H.I.E.L.D. (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: There is the clue about how the enemy forces were the ELN. I never looked into their history too much but they were known to be focused on ransom and extortion in the 90s, peaked in the mid-90s then entered a period of decline by the late 90s. I thought that photo was just a ceremony of Pierce recognizing Fury's efforts in Bogota. Was there like 2 photos of Fury and Pierce and another that Fury dated as a Joint Chiefs of Staff meeting in 1992? It seemed like after a couple years, when an agent starts getting into command positions, they get stationed in South America (Coulson got Cusco in 2002) in for a bit then back to the States. I always thought that Bogota was in the early 90s and as a result of his strategy and saving the people, he was promoted a little sooner than usual. And now with the new info from Captain Marvel, I see how Bogota could have dovetailed into him getting a position as threat assessment back in the States. Pierce was probably still Under Secretary at the State Department at the time and made it happen.

      I don't think Fury was made Director until the 2000s which probably happened right after Pierce was promoted to Secretary. It seem like the duties in the State Department overlapped with the WSC or they had him as their fixer (aka enforcer), and that gave him more oversight over S.H.I.E.L.D., probably part of HYDRA's plans to clinch their grasp. I never got around to it but I wondered if you could serve a position in a U.S. bureau or department and also serve a position in a global body like the UN.

      That all sounds plausible to me, nice research and a good theory.

      I wonder if there might be a moment in Captain Marvel where Fury gets promoted and they say something like, "Who knows, you might be director one day?" in a very prequel-y way. I would otherwise say that there's a chance that we see him become director in the film (in that "everything significant in the character's past happened in the space of one week" prequel trope), but it seems like he's too low down in the organisation to get promoted that much in the one film. That said, Mack was just an agent when he got appointed director.


      The Punisher: Season 2 (additional)

      BEJT wrote: I finished the season. It ends with a "three months later" scene (which, sidenote, I thought was dreadful and tasteless and let down an otherwise great finale) so at the very least, one scene is set after Infinity War. Will discuss more later.

      I will continue to post my notes in the coming days until the whole season's notes are complete and I have a breakdown of the number of days and which exact dates they fall on. But I definitely think at least the bulk of it is May 2018, and thus that epilogue is August, maybe September 2018. That one scene though is definitely an acceptable exception to the blanket rule - especially since it doesn't actually contradict the Snap. It could conceivably take place in a post-Snap world.

      I should maybe explain myself as to why I really didn't like that epilogue scene - I know a lot of fans loved it. Minor spoilers for everything in small.

      After 3 years of humanising Frank, I thought that scene undercut all of that in favour of just making Frank a Terminator-esque character. The show worked for 25.9 episodes to make the character of Frank Castle, and the show itself, more than just, "Look he's got guns he's cool" - something the show could easily have just fallen back on. I love the end of Season 1, with Frank opening up and allowing himself a little vulnerability to admit that he is scared, and I love the hug in the Season 2 finale for similar reasons. The show always made Frank a human being. He is willing to kill these people, but it's not easy and he doesn't enjoy it.

      Yet in this scene, all that development went out the window for him to just be a cool gunslinger character with a one-liner and dual-wielding guns mercilessly. They act like he's having fun. This might match with the character's 1970s Vietnam-era roots but it is not the complex, rich, conflicted character who this show has somehow, despite all the odds in the current climate concerning gun violence, managed to make us really care about, love, and even root for.

      And those guys were like in their 20s. If it was a small gang of middle-aged men doing something despicable to innocent people, I would be more forgiving, but a bunch of 20somethings (with a lot of their life left to potentially turn things around, and also of an age where some of them might have been roped into this sort of thing against their will) turning on each other, and Frank just enjoys massacring them? It felt wrong to me and like the show just collapsed into exactly what it had worked so hard to avoid being for 2 seasons.

      And the Stan Lee tribute immediately after was extremely poorly timed. Post-credits might not have worked because people won't stick around watching to see it, but maybe just allow even 5 more seconds of blackness on screen between that ending and the tribute? Ending on a gleeful massacre then immediately saying "In loving memory of Stan Lee" I thought was horrible timing. Take a few seconds to allow the viewer to breathe and accept the ending of the season, then throw up a picture of Stan (so as to disassociate the message from what just happened in the show and associate it with that picture) with the message "In loving memory of Stan Lee".

      The season as a whole I thought was OK. I thought it got a bit better as it went along. I didn't like what they did with Billy, because the regression of his character robbed us of the depth of his conflict with Frank that was built up in Season 1. I thought John Pilgrim started and ended in an interesting way, but his character didn't particularly escalate the way it seemed like he would to begin with (they set him up as a mystery to be unravelled, but in the end his character the whole time wasn't meant to be much more than that). Krista was an awful and ludicrous character who just could not really exist and is legally speaking preying on a vulnerable person and breaking her oath.

      I liked the finale quite a lot, except for that final scene, and loved the way they dealt with what I'll just call "what happens in Curtis' basement", because I was afraid they were going to go in a different direction that was going to feel completely wrong, but when the person standing up did what they did, I thought they got that exactly spot on. I really like Frank as a character, same with Curtis, so obviously love seeing more of them. I also like Madani and Mahoney (though Mahoney was painted a bit differently this season, as more of an "annoying" character than he usually is), and I liked Amy quite a bit - though I think it's a shame that they had to start again with a new character that Frank is helping, Amy, rather than continue to build his relationship with Micro. I appreciate them not forcing Micro into the story in an unnatural way, but it did feel at times, with Billy's regression and without Micro, that two of the most developed parts of Season 1 got thrown away to start over. But I enjoyed many parts of the season nonetheless and liked the overall story they told, especially Frank and Amy's relationship.

      I would rank it among the Marvel Netflix seasons as:

      1. Marvel's Daredevil: Season 1
      2. Marvel's Jessica Jones: Season 1
      3. Marvel's Daredevil: Season 3
      4. Marvel's Daredevil: Season 2
      5. Marvel's The Punisher: Season 1
      6. Marvel's Luke Cage: Season 2
      7. Marvel's The Defenders: Season 1
      8. Marvel's Luke Cage: Season 1
      9. Marvel's The Punisher: Season 2
      10. Marvel's Iron Fist: Season 2
      11. Marvel's Jessica Jones: Season 2
      12. Marvel's Iron Fist: Season 1

      Anyway, in regards to Infinity War I'm starting to think that the "Spring/Summer" generalisation on the 2018 page just for a couple of months until Endgame might be the best (and only) middle ground of all the options. How would we feel about that?

      If the events in the 2018 page have the header "Spring/Summer" instead of "March" and instead of "15th" it says "First Thursday" or something similar, instead of "18th" it says "First Sunday", "19th" → "Second Monday", "20th" → "Second Tuesday", "21st" → "Second Wednesday", "22nd" → "Second Thursday", "28th" → "Third Wednesday", and "29th" → "Third Thursday".

      This does pretty much solve our problem for now. Obviously it's not a model we should adopt regularly, but it works to serve us for a couple of months. And of course, I'd change the references accordingly.

      It also doesn't necessarily mean we have to avoid putting the The Punisher: Season 2 events on the page in the meantime. We can put them under "May", before "Spring/Summer", and then while it is placed before Infinity War, the order isn't laid out quite as definitively. Because it's not like saying "May" then "June", saying "May" then "Spring/Summer" perhaps suggests to the reader a little bit more that Infinity War is indeed flexible and not necessarily 100% decisively after, since May is within spring. They might read it as "Spring/Summer" being placed after May on the page because the middle of the window for "Spring/Summer" is after May so it makes more sense, since they have to be put one after the other and cannot just be side-by-side, to go "May" then "Spring/Summer" rather than "Spring/Summer" then "May". They won't necessarily read into it like that, but this sort of thing is why I'm saying that there's definitely more likelihood of them seeing it as non-definitive with the "Spring/Summer" heading, which is all we need - a loophole so that we can show we're not stating it with certainty.


      The Write-Up Discussion Thread (additional)

      I've set up the thread for write-ups for anyone who wants to help. It's here.

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    • BEJT wrote: That all sounds plausible to me, nice research and a good theory.

      Thanks.

      BEJT wrote: I wonder if there might be a moment in Captain Marvel where Fury gets promoted and they say something like, "Who knows, you might be director one day?" in a very prequel-y way. I would otherwise say that there's a chance that we see him become director in the film (in that "everything significant in the character's past happened in the space of one week" prequel trope), but it seems like he's too low down in the organisation to get promoted that much in the one film. That said, Mack was just an agent when he got appointed director.

      Hm, maybe in one of the end credit teasers. Well for Coulson and Mack, it wasn't standard conditions in which they were promoted to Director. At least Coulson had 20-something years while Mack, only a couple years I think.
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    • Ok, here are my notes for Punisher Season 2:

      Punisher 2.04: Scar Tissue 11:22-15:26

      June 2017, 6 months into Billy Russo’s recovery

      Billy’s therapist Dr. Dumont talks to him about what kind of face he wants the world to see and suggests that he decorate his mask

      ------------------------------

      ------------------------------

      Punisher 2.04: Scar Tissue 19:48-21:16

      May 2018?

      Shortly before start of Season 2, Amy’s friends get killed, she runs for her life

      ------------------------------

      ------------------------------

      Punisher 2.04: Scar Tissue 25:28-28:05

      2014?

      Frank and Billy talk about stuff at a little league baseball game

      ------------------------------

      ------------------------------

      Punisher 2.04: Scar Tissue 52:00-54:38

      July 2017?

      Billy shows his newly decorated mask to Dr. Dumont, he talks about his time serving

      ------------------------------

      ------------------------------

      Punisher 2.07: One Bad Day 0:00-6:08

      December 2016

      Agent Madani is interviewed shortly after being shot by Billy Russo

      ------------------------------

      ------------------------------

      Punisher 2.10: The Dark Hearts of Men 0:00-2:08

      2010?, Before Kandahar assassination?

      Frank and Billy do a game of running down the line with their military friends

      ------------------------------

      ------------------------------

      Punisher 2.10: The Dark Hearts of Men 24:34-26:30

      2010? Maybe when they were recently married, when the kids were very young?

      John aka Pilgrim tells his wife his real name, she tells him to come home (Could be partly hallucination and not entirely a memory)

      ------------------------------

      ------------------------------

      Punisher 2.11: The Abyss 39:15-39:50 | 2.12: Collision Course 46:30-46:40

      1990? She looks about 8 years old, the actress is 37

      Krista Dumont’s father jumps out the window with her in his arms, he dies but she lives with severe injuries

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    • In Daredevil S2 when Schoonover is being interrogated in the court he says that Castle obtained a medal for his labour in the field 2 years ago, isn't this related to the Kandahar mission? Because they mentioned it too

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    • I liked the season, is not better than the first one but it has some highlight rhat the first one lacked as the improvement and flow of the plot. However, I hated every goddamn scene with Kirsta (Krysta?) I don't know and I don't care her name.

      And I felt disgusted for the way they approached her traumas from her past and ugh... I just skipped all their emotional and sex scenes she had with Jigsaw. Which I liked so far but was expecting more of a threat to Castle and the others. There was not real opponent this season, just John Pilgrim who seems to have a pain tolerance upgraded to 100 just as Frank Castle. Damn. I wish I could take a beat and still get up and put up a good fight after a couple of days. The Punisher is a beast!

      Whereas I can see that they have humanized the Punisher, he still likes killing people who deserve it. They might be in his 20s but that doesn't make them more innocent. People aged 14 kill a lot of people where I live, I know it has nothing to do with it but I am responding to BEJT's opinion of the season. Also, Punisher does like killing. He finally embraces after following closure and new activities. I definitely loved that last scene.

      And I am so in love with Giorgia. She is so beautiful and talented! All her scenes with Punisher were great. And she is close to my age! Hell yeah!

      My rating is 6.5 out of 10. Rewatching the Netflix Series I would rank it like this, though I liked it a lot the first season of Iron Fist, every time I rewatched I start to realize that it was not as good as it was the first time I watched. Not sucks nor is bad. But not the best one.

      1) Daredevil S3
      2) Daredevil S1
      3) Luke Cage S2
      4) The Punisher S1
      5) Jessica Jones S1
      6) Jessica Jones S2
      7) The Defenders
      8) The Punisher S2
      9) Iron Fist S2
      10) Luke Cage S1
      11) Iron Fist S1
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    • One thing that still bugs me, is that no one's been able to place the Ghost flashbacks in Ant Man and The Wasp yet. I mean, I guess ideally somewhere in the 80s, but I don't have anywhere concrete to put it in my chronological cut.

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    • Cornstomper wrote: One thing that still bugs me, is that no one's been able to place the Ghost flashbacks in Ant Man and The Wasp yet. I mean, I guess ideally somewhere in the 80s, but I don't have anywhere concrete to put it in my chronological cut.

      Which part, the Argentina accident that killed her parents or when she was used by SHIELD? I take it she's about 28 years old. Probably 8 years old during the incident, so my guess is it's 1998. In that night vision POV of Ghost coming toward the soldier, she looks about the same she does in the present. So maybe age 20 give or take so like 2010. Come to think of, would that night vision POV or gun that soldier has date which generation of tech that is they're using? EDIT: I guess Fury found her too mentally unstable to be part of the Avengers Initiative.
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    • CirUmeUela's The Punisher: Season 2 Notes (CirUmeUela)

      CirUmeUela wrote: Ok, here are my notes for Punisher Season 2:

      Punisher 2.04: Scar Tissue 11:22-15:26

      June 2017, 6 months into Billy Russo’s recovery

      Billy’s therapist Dr. Dumont talks to him about what kind of face he wants the world to see and suggests that he decorate his mask

      I would say that Billy's recovery begins after he woke up, not after he entered his coma. It's said that he woke up after 6 weeks, so around January 27, 2017. That would make this around ([July 27, 2017]*2+[July 16, 2017]*1)/3 = July 23, 2017.

      CirUmeUela wrote:

      Punisher 2.04: Scar Tissue 19:48-21:16

      May 2018?

      Shortly before start of Season 2, Amy’s friends get killed, she runs for her life

      Yeah, considering she's only just reporting it to Konchevsky in Episode 1, I think it's only been a few days (enough that she's not completely constantly devastated). Konchevsky says he expected Fiona yesterday, so I would assume they were killed a couple of nights prior to when they were due to get to Konchevsky. I'll let you know the exact date once I've worked it out.

      CirUmeUela wrote:

      Punisher 2.04: Scar Tissue 25:28-28:05

      2014?

      Frank and Billy talk about stuff at a little league baseball game

      Frank and Billy were in Kandahar from September 2013, so it has to be before that. I was going to say winter considering Billy's hat (clearly given to Ben Barnes to hide the fact that his head has been shaved for the present day events), but from some quick research, looks like Little League is June-August. So Summer 2013 I guess, a bit before the flashback in Memento Mori. Little League seems to be Friday, June 21st to Sunday, August 25th in 2019, so guessing roughly Friday, June 21st to Sunday, August 25th in 2013, so July 23rd/24th-ish, probably a weekend, so Sunday, July 21st? But I'm not good on this, I don't really know anything about Little League.

      CirUmeUela wrote:

      Punisher 2.04: Scar Tissue 52:00-54:38

      July 2017?

      Billy shows his newly decorated mask to Dr. Dumont, he talks about his time serving

      Probably about a week after the previous appointment we were shown I guess, so around July 30, 2017?

      CirUmeUela wrote:

      Punisher 2.07: One Bad Day 0:00-6:08

      December 2016

      Agent Madani is interviewed shortly after being shot by Billy Russo

      I'm thinking very early January 2017 for this, since it's "one year ago" from May 2018. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that after being shot in the head, she'd still be in hospital a couple of weeks later, and Marion says that Frank's liberty relies on her helping the cover-up, suggesting this is indeed after the end of Season 1, with Frank having been given his liberty.

      CirUmeUela wrote:

      Punisher 2.10: The Dark Hearts of Men 0:00-2:08

      2010?, Before Kandahar assassination?

      Frank and Billy do a game of running down the line with their military friends

      I think you might not be aware of the recent changes/corrections to the The Punisher: Season 1 flashbacks - Kandahar is now 2013-2014. Sorry for any inconvenience, there was some discussion on here about why.

      I don't really know with this scene. It's possible it's the Cerberus Squad I guess, but it all seems a bit too cheery. I would say it's more likely it's their previous deployment together, which we've estimated on the draft page as April 2011-June 2012, so around the middle of that deployment, November 2011? Or is it an exercise/game done in training, not during deployment?

      CirUmeUela wrote:

      Punisher 2.10: The Dark Hearts of Men 24:34-26:30

      2010? Maybe when they were recently married, when the kids were very young?

      John aka Pilgrim tells his wife his real name, she tells him to come home (Could be partly hallucination and not entirely a memory)

      Considering how devout a Christian Rebecca is, and John has (sort of) become, I can't imagine they conceived their children before marriage. Zell Steele Morrow (Michael) was born December 9, 2006, making him 11y5m old at the middle of filming on May 20, 2018. Since the middle of the season is set pretty much then, don't really need to do much calculating, that would suggest Michael was born around November/December 2006. Henry Boshart (Lemuel) looks younger so it doesn't matter that I can't find his date of birth. So, if their oldest child was born around November/December 2006, they were probably married by March 2006.

      However, they say in a later episode that John left his white supremacist group and joined Christianity 12 years ago, so around mid-2006, maybe early 2006. If he met Rebecca quickly and they got married quickly, I still can't see them getting married until at least early 2007. So married early-to-mid-2007? With Michael then born late 2007, making him about a year younger than the actor portraying him, which is fairly standard.

      CirUmeUela wrote:

      Punisher 2.11: The Abyss 39:15-39:50 | 2.12: Collision Course 46:30-46:40

      1990? She looks about 8 years old, the actress is 37

      Krista Dumont’s father jumps out the window with her in his arms, he dies but she lives with severe injuries

      Good guess, the actress, Reagan Grella, was 8 - she was born February 19, 2010, and the middle of filming was May 20, 2018, so she was approximately 8y3m old. However, in Episode 9, Krista says she was 9. So doing my usual calculations for this sort of thing, Krista was about [3469.875*(1500/365.25)+3012*(4/(3012/365.25))]/[(1500/365.25)+(4/(3012/365.25))] = 3422 days old, 9y4.4m. Floriana Lima was born March 26, 1981 and it looks like the middle of the season is probably set around May 10th-ish, so about 10 days before the middle of filming, so we just need to subtract 10 days, Krista's date of birth would be approximately March 16, 1981. So that would make it roughly 1990 as you say, late July 1990 as a best estimate, give or take only a few days depending on the exact placement of Season 2 in May 2018.


      Kandahar (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: In Daredevil S2 when Schoonover is being interrogated in the court he says that Castle obtained a medal for his labour in the field 2 years ago, isn't this related to the Kandahar mission? Because they mentioned it too

      I think it's Karen saying it in Episode 5, not Schoonover in Episode 9. "Right, did you know that two years ago, Lieutenant Frank Castle was awarded the Navy Cross for his service in Afghanistan, right? That's second only to the Medal of Honor. This guy is a war hero." It's not necessarily about Kandahar, we know he served in Afghanistan multiple times, and actually I imagine if anything this supports Kandahar being 2013-2014 because I can't see him getting a Navy Cross after half-blinding his senior officer. So he was rewarded in late 2013, before he headed out to Kandahar, most likely for his 2011-2012 deployment that I calculated.


      The Punisher: Season 2 (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: I liked the season, is not better than the first one but it has some highlight rhat the first one lacked as the improvement and flow of the plot. However, I hated every goddamn scene with Kirsta (Krysta?) I don't know and I don't care her name.

      And I felt disgusted for the way they approached her traumas from her past and ugh... I just skipped all their emotional and sex scenes she had with Jigsaw. Which I liked so far but was expecting more of a threat to Castle and the others. There was not real opponent this season, just John Pilgrim who seems to have a pain tolerance upgraded to 100 just as Frank Castle. Damn. I wish I could take a beat and still get up and put up a good fight after a couple of days. The Punisher is a beast!

      Whereas I can see that they have humanized the Punisher, he still likes killing people who deserve it. They might be in his 20s but that doesn't make them more innocent. People aged 14 kill a lot of people where I live, I know it has nothing to do with it but I am responding to BEJT's opinion of the season. Also, Punisher does like killing. He finally embraces after following closure and new activities. I definitely loved that last scene.

      And I am so in love with Giorgia. She is so beautiful and talented! All her scenes with Punisher were great. And she is close to my age! Hell yeah!

      My rating is 6.5 out of 10. Rewatching the Netflix Series I would rank it like this, though I liked it a lot the first season of Iron Fist, every time I rewatched I start to realize that it was not as good as it was the first time I watched. Not sucks nor is bad. But not the best one.

      1) Daredevil S3
      2) Daredevil S1
      3) Luke Cage S2
      4) The Punisher S1
      5) Jessica Jones S1
      6) Jessica Jones S2
      7) The Defenders
      8) The Punisher S2
      9) Iron Fist S2
      10) Luke Cage S1
      11) Iron Fist S1

      He doesn't like killing, he's said before how he can do it but doesn't find it easy and only does it out of necessity. And the reason I had a problem with them being in their 20s was because Frank's wavering beliefs on whether or not people can be redeemed is very much called into question when they have their whole lives ahead of them to change, and also because at that age there is a good chance some of them have just been roped in and don't want to be there. Had it been a bunch of 50-year-olds trafficking women like the beginning of Daredevil: Season 1, sure. But a group of 20somethings with their whole lives ahead of them and potentially not all willing gang participants, only posing a threat to each other (it's not like it was made clear that Frank was preventing anything bad from happening here - we don't know what these groups would have done otherwise, all we are shown is that they would have killed each other. Frank's whole thing is that he doesn't take the risk of letting people live if they might just head back out and cause more harm, but for all we know, he stopped maybe 10 people dying... by just killing 15)? It felt gratuitous and poorly conceived for the sake of being "cool". You mention people aged 14 killing people, but that doesn't mean they deserve to die. Now sure, Frank's standard for "deserves to die" is a lot lower than mine, but I'm fairly sure that it would have to be incredibly low for anyone to think it's OK to kill a 14-year-old who killed someone. I can't see Frank ever killing a 14-year-old for having killed someone, because it's not just about the level of guilt, but the potential they have left in their lives for redemption and change. Anyway, just my feelings on that final scene, I didn't like it at all.

      Krista is ridiculous. She would not be and should not have been hired for her profession with her mental state, and her route to suddenly being willing to set up people's deaths for Billy is unbelievable. Billy is a child. Emotionally, he has been reduced to a child, and she falls in love with him that much? I get the whole thing where they bond over their numbness and desire for pain, but when you take on a profession like hers you have to be of the state of mind that you could never fall in love with your patient like that, and especially Billy, who in no way during their time together was in any way desirable and is vulnerable. Her whole thing was just so wrong. Poor Floriana Lima, her Supergirl character was really bad as well - she was incredibly controlling in her relationship and self-centred, not caring about her girlfriend's feelings anywhere near enough.

      You have a crush on a lot of MCU women, Marvelus😂. Fun fact about Giorgia though, she's Chief Dooley's (actor's) daughter.

      You missed Daredevil: Season 2 on your ranking. I've said before personally I think you're a bit too harsh on Luke Cage: Season 1, but hey, your opinion is your opinion and you loved Season 2. And I can't personally get much enjoyment from Jessica Jones: Season 2, but I'm glad you did.


      Ant-Man and the Wasp Past Dates (Cornstomper, Mrmichaelt)

      Cornstomper wrote: One thing that still bugs me, is that no one's been able to place the Ghost flashbacks in Ant Man and The Wasp yet. I mean, I guess ideally somewhere in the 80s, but I don't have anywhere concrete to put it in my chronological cut.

      Sorry if you were waiting, just mention this stuff if you're waiting on us. This was calculated a few months ago - the first part was here, then the approximate conclusion here, May 1996, until I have the time to work it out exactly and write it up (sorry, I'm bogged down with stuff to do on the wiki, it's on my list and I'll get to it soon).

      Unless you're referring to the stuff with her working for S.H.I.E.L.D.. That wasn't considered so urgent because it's footage, not flashbacks, so just needs placing once things are written up. I don't really know there, it has to be before 2014, presumably not too much before though, considering Hannah John-Kamen's age she could only have worked for them really for a few years before then.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Which part, the Argentina accident that killed her parents or when she was used by SHIELD? I take it she's about 28 years old. Probably 8 years old during the incident, so my guess is it's 1998. In that night vision POV of Ghost coming toward the soldier, she looks about the same she does in the present. So maybe age 20 give or take so like 2010. Come to think of, would that night vision POV or gun that soldier has date which generation of tech that is they're using? EDIT: I guess Fury found her too mentally unstable to be part of the Avengers Initiative.

      We went with 1996 for the reasons linked above.

      Yeah, I'll have to rewatch Ant-Man and the Wasp when I get to writing up the past events to work out about her time with S.H.I.E.L.D.. I don't know about tech, good idea, that's potentially a factor.

      I wonder how much Fury knew about her, since if I remember correctly, wasn't it implied that the group leading her were more of the Hydra portion of S.H.I.E.L.D.? He'd have to know about her if she was working for S.H.I.E.L.D. that much, but maybe Pierce hid some details from him.


      The Write-Up Discussion Thread (additional)

      Just a reminder in case anyone interested missed it.

        Loading editor
    • BEJT wrote: We went with 1996 for the reasons linked above.

      Thank you for the links. Okay, I was close. lol.

      BEJT wrote: Yeah, I'll have to rewatch Ant-Man and the Wasp when I get to writing up the past events to work out about her time with S.H.I.E.L.D.. I don't know about tech, good idea, that's potentially a factor.

      Thanks!

      BEJT wrote: I wonder how much Fury knew about her, since if I remember correctly, wasn't it implied that the group leading her were more of the Hydra portion of S.H.I.E.L.D.? He'd have to know about her if she was working for S.H.I.E.L.D. that much, but maybe Pierce hid some details from him.

      Good point. Yeah, I think I remember the implications. Like the training was more like torture or something. Not like SHIELD is innocent of doing morally gray things, too, but yeah, something to consider. Fury hid things. HYDRA hid things. It's possible.

        Loading editor
    • Some things worth mentioning:

      • Apparently Carol will have been gone for a long time, "years", when she returns in 1995. I wonder if Monica might be a surprise to her, like Maria wasn't even pregnant when she left, potentially meaning she was taken as early as 1983.
      • Bob Iger says Jessica Jones: Season 3 will indeed release in "summer". My blog predicts May 24th, which isn't really summer, but in Hollywood speak, "spring" releases are January-April, "summer" releases are May-August, and "fall" releases are September-December. Marvelus made a good point before about the fact that they might just rush it out earlier than we expected and get this over with, but no, looks like it will be at least May.
      • Apparently it takes 6 + months for Natasha's hair to go from Infinity War length to Super Bowl Endgame spot firing range length.
      • Something I noticed, it looks like the Snap occurred during a New York Mets game or just before or after judging by the wrecked and abandoned cars around Citi Field Stadium, implying that at the moment of the Snap (around midday), there were lots of people in cars around the stadium. This means this should be during the 2018 MLB season, March 29th-October 28th, which obviously works fine. Ideally, it would also be on a Thursday when the Mets were playing: March 29th 13:10-16:10 (so people there 11:10ish-17:10ish), April 5th 13:05-16:00 (so people there 11:05ish-17:00ish), April 19th 19:35-22:35 (so people there 17:35ish-23:35ish), April 26th 13:15-17:25 (so people there 11:15ish-18:25ish), May 3rd 13:10-15:50 (so people there 11:10ish-16:50ish), May 24th 20:10-23:05 (so people there 18:10ish-00:05ish), May 31st 19:10-22:10 (so people there 17:10ish-23:10ish), June 14th 21:40-00:20 (so people there 19:40ish-01:20ish), June 21st 15:10-18:05 (so people there 13:10ish-19:05ish), July 12th 19:10-22:00 (so people there 17:10ish-23:00ish)... (not going to list any more because we know it's not after that). But obviously those aren't the exclusive options, because it's easy to just assume the fixture dates are different in the MCU.
      • As I've gone into in my notes for The Punisher: Season 2, which are done up to Episode 9, the scene on which the "13" calendar app is shown is at least 2 days, and seemingly not much more than 3 so overall basically 2-4 days, after the day of the robbery (the day of the end of Episode 7 and all of Episode 8), which is said twice to be a Friday. So it's Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday, which wouldn't work with it being Wednesday anyway (which is what Rman823 has told us is what the day of the week is above the "13" when you watch in 4K), plus does indeed make the "Wednesday 13"'s implication of Wednesday, June 13th incompatible with the more prominent May calendar, as the calendar makes the day of the robbery at the latest Friday, May 25th, so this is latest May 29th.
        But throwing out the apparent "Wednesday", the 13 otherwise works nicely. The implication is only 2-3 days after the robbery, and if we go with May 13th for the app scene, that can fit nicely with Friday, May 11th for the robbery, 2 days prior. So unless on my rewatch of Episodes 10-13 I find some contradiction to this, it looks like the end of Episode 7 and all of Episode 8 will be Friday, May 11th, and the scene with the app will be Sunday, May 13th - and the rest of the season will work around that.
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    • I have been reading your notes for Punisher S2 and while you point out that May is the most likely, some of your notes seem to imply that we are on Early 2018. You placing the flashback from Jigsaw and the doctor on July 2017, 6 months after he woke up. But she said during May 2018 that she worked with him for months, so I don't know which is your outcome. But I will wait for it.

      And about the stadium, didn't think it of that way. That is very sad. Enjoying a game and the puff. But if we end up using June, June 21st sounds about right.

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    • Marvelus wrote: I have been reading your notes for Punisher S2 and while you point out that May is the most likely, some of your notes seem to imply that we are on Early 2018. You placing the flashback from Jigsaw and the doctor on July 2017, 6 months after he woke up. But she said during May 2018 that she worked with him for months, so I don't know which is your outcome. But I will wait for it.

      Yeah, that scene is July 2017, it's said to be 6 months after he woke up. Works well enough as "months" before May 2018.

      The notes just examine each piece of evidence, and the evidence about the time since Season 1 would place the season in early 2018 rather than May. But overall, the notes conclude/will conclude that it's May and that that works best.

      When I write the notes, I write them from the perspective of someone watching for the first time and after each scene writing notes for that scene. It means that it clearly presents the thought process for anyone reading, instead of seemingly randomly coming to a conclusion based on information that hasn't yet been presented. So the earlier episodes' notes suggest early 2018 because that's what one might assume as they are watching the season until Episode 7, when it becomes clear that it's May 2018. So 6.8/9 of the episodes I've written up are, I guess, from the perspective of someone thinking it's early 2018, which might be why you've got that impression.

      It's May 2018. Just like Jessica Jones: Season 2, Luke Cage: Season 2, Iron Fist: Season 2, and Daredevil: Season 3, there are lines implying that in the writers' minds, it's been a bit less time than it actually has to be if you analyse the evidence, but the lines have leeway, and thus we just have to perform slight stretches and then it works. Same as always, we have to make a few stretches based on some slight assumptions, but otherwise, it works fine.

      Marvelus wrote: And about the stadium, didn't think it of that way. That is very sad. Enjoying a game and the puff. But if we end up using June, June 21st sounds about right.

      Well the ones in small/grey are barely worth mentioning because you still have to assume there's a difference in the MCU to the real world because the timing has to be different. So it still doesn't match the real world, it's just I guess slightly closer to the real world if you're only shifting from the real world by hours rather than like a day. And June 21st is one of those, it doesn't really work anyway despite being a Thursday because it's the wrong time.

      But anyway, the June option is Wednesday, June 27th-Thursday, June 28th, not 20th-21st, because Scott's sentence would end on June 20, 2018 following his arrest on June 24, 2016 minus a few days for prison days counting for double, we know it's a Wednesday (unless we have to push it to a Thursday but that was only in the case of taking the 4/30 date, and even then only one potential option). Thus Infinity War would be 27th-28th when taking the June option that came about due to the Ant-Man and the Wasp 2-year sentence (it also can't be later than June 27th-28th because that is literally the last days of the school term for Peter, unless the MoMA trip is during summer vacation which seems very unlikely, especially since Feige said after Endgame peter returns to junior year).

      But as I said, I wasn't listing those dates because they're the only options or anything. Just pointing out another minor piece of evidence we now have, and doing the research to accompany it. The fact that it's during the 2018 MLB season, which it is no matter where it falls in the 3-month range of options, is the more important part.


      By the way Marvelus, I've started checking Jessica Jones: Season 2 and you were wondering what I thought of your style of writing - I like it!

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    • That is good.

      I am watching Daredevil with my mom, and on Season 2 Episode 2 when Punisher enters that shop and then kill rhe owner because he offered child pornography I realized that he said the girl was 12, Lisa Castle was born on June 2003 (right?) so by the time of her death she was 11, she would have turned 12 two months later in 2015.

      What if Castle got mad because that was the age her daughter was going to have ny that time, he killed the owner on October 2015, her daught if she had lived, would be 12.

      What do you think?

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    • Maybe Jessica Jones S3 connects with Endgame aftermath and that is why they are pushing it? Just like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S6

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    • Marvelus wrote: That is good.

      I am watching Daredevil with my mom, and on Season 2 Episode 2 when Punisher enters that shop and then kill rhe owner because he offered child pornography I realized that he said the girl was 12, Lisa Castle was born on June 2003 (right?) so by the time of her death she was 11, she would have turned 12 two months later in 2015.

      What if Castle got mad because that was the age her daughter was going to have ny that time, he killed the owner on October 2015, her daught if she had lived, would be 12.

      What do you think?

      Yeah June 2003, so she would've been 12. Nice theory, potentially made him extra angry. I mean, I'm sure he'd be very angry anyway, but that association could indeed have just pushed his buttons even a little bit more. It's not evidence because it's just a fun (almost certainly coincidental) theory, but I like it, good spot.

      Marvelus wrote: Maybe Jessica Jones S3 connects with Endgame aftermath and that is why they are pushing it? Just like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S6

      They're not pushing it though, they're just releasing it at the time they were due to. I highly doubt it, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is the only MCU show that ever really deals with direct aftermaths of MCU films. I'm absolutely expecting Jessica Jones: Season 3 - especially with the fact that the scripts would have at least been mostly done once Infinity War came out and there's definitely a lag behind the films before these shows ever reference film events and that definitely seems too soon just based on how long this stuff takes to take effect - to be no different to any of the other Netflix shows at the moment, just doing its own thing.

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    • Well, it'd almost be like a fitting final nail in the coffin if they release Jessica Jones season 3 on April 12 as Daredevil season 1 released on April 10, 2015, 4 years ago. But Luke Cage season 2 was released June 22 last year so that could be the latest for JJS3, June 21-ish.

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    • From the Captain Marvel set visit: Screenrant "Captain Marvel Jude Law Interview" 2/12/19

      "We were trying to sort of work out the timeline with how long the team [Starforce] has been together from watching that scene. Is that something you could shed some light on?"

      Jude Law: [Whispers] "It's been about fifteen years."

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    • So Carol got kidnapped in 1980, since the movie takes place in 1995? No wonder it seems she never met Monica.

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    • Jessica Jones: Season 3 Release Date (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Well, it'd almost be like a fitting final nail in the coffin if they release Jessica Jones season 3 on April 12 as Daredevil season 1 released on April 10, 2015, 4 years ago. But Luke Cage season 2 was released June 22 last year so that could be the latest for JJS3, June 21-ish.

      June 21st was my initial prediction several months ago, but now my updated blog is saying May 24th. I've kind of learned though not to assume that the Marvel Netflix seasons will release the same weekend the following year. That happened with Daredevil: Season 2 and Iron Fist: Season 1, but that's kind of the only time. The Punisher: Season 1 released 2 years on from Jessica Jones: Season 1 but considering it was delayed, I feel like that was just a coincidence.

      The maths has never been more than 4 weeks wrong so assuming that continues, it should be April 26th-June 21st some time.


      Captain Marvel 1980 (Mrmichaelt, Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: From the Captain Marvel set visit: Screenrant "Captain Marvel Jude Law Interview" 2/12/19

      "We were trying to sort of work out the timeline with how long the team [Starforce] has been together from watching that scene. Is that something you could shed some light on?"

      Jude Law: [Whispers] "It's been about fifteen years."

      Thanks! That'll be especially helpful if they don't actually specify. That lines up with what I speculated the other day:

      BEJT wrote: Apparently Carol will have been gone for a long time, "years", when she returns in 1995. I wonder if Monica might be a surprise to her, like Maria wasn't even pregnant when she left, potentially meaning she was taken as early as 1983.

      Even earlier than I wondered might be the case.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: So Carol got kidnapped in 1980, since the movie takes place in 1995? No wonder it seems she never met Monica.

      Yeah, guess so. The reason I guessed that might be the case is just it's a classic storytelling thing to have a character who disappeared return after a long time and be surprised by how people's lives had changed. So I thought, "Monica would make sense as a big surprise for Carol."

      Brie was 28y7.5m during filming for Captain Marvel, 28y1m for Endgame (she filmed it first), so Carol's supposed presumably to be about biologically 28. It's unclear how her ageing works. We know from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. that one Kree generation (Kasius and his brother's father appears in 2018 to be about the same age his sons were in 2091), so about 28 human years, is about 73 years, so they presumably age about 2.6x slower than humans (also works with Ronan, who'd be 7 biological years younger than he is in Guardians of the Galaxy). Obviously it's very unlikely the films would adhere to such a small detail from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. but hey, if it did, since Carol is a Kree now, the 23 years would only be about 8-9 years, so presumably she'd be about biologically 23-24 in Captain Marvel and 31-32 in Endgame. But that would also mean that a further 15 years back would make her 17-18 when she's kidnapped, which is definitely not the case. Pushing it up to absolute minimum 22 when he's taken, she'd then be biologically 27-28ish in Captain Marvel and 36-37ish in Endgame, which also doesn't really work.

      But we don't know. She might jump in time in some way with time travel or time dilation or whatever, or her ageing is a lot slower than what Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. implied or completely stopped or whatever.

      But somewhere between 22 and 28 when she's kidnapped in 1980, so born around 1951-1958 I guess.


      Spider-Man: Far from Home (additional)

      I hesitate to say "good news", because often when I say that it turns out to not be.

      But it looks to me at least like this says "Monday, July 30", which would work with July 2018.

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    • BEJT wrote: The maths has never been more than 4 weeks wrong so assuming that continues, it should be April 26th-June 21st some time.

      True. But I don't know if Netflix is keen on releasing the weekend of Endgame but I think that might happened before with a past release, can't recall off the top of my head.

      BEJT wrote:

      Captain Marvel 1980

      Thanks! That'll be especially helpful if they don't actually specify. That lines up with what I speculated the other day:

      You're welcome!

      BEJT wrote:

      Spider-Man: Far from Home (additional)

      I hesitate to say "good news", because often when I say that it turns out to not be.

      But it looks to me at least like this says "Monday, July 30", which would work with July 2018.

      lol. Yes, if it works out, it puts a cap on when Endgame is and helps I guess inform a bit more about IW's placement.
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    • Jessica Jones: Season 3 Release (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: True. But I don't know if Netflix is keen on releasing the weekend of Endgame but I think that might happened before with a past release, can't recall off the top of my head.

      Oh I'm not saying it will come out on April 26th, that would be mad (unless it's an intentional way to bury the season), and definitely isn't "summer".

      I was just explaining that that appears to be the window - why I don't think it could be April 12th on the 4-year anniversary as you mentioned.

      I'm sticking with what my maths is telling me, which is c. May 24th (which would be really annoying because it would again be inconvenient for me, falling during exams yet again).


      Spider-Man: Far from Home (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: lol. Yes, if it works out, it puts a cap on when Endgame is and helps I guess inform a bit more about IW's placement.

      Well the film is firmly set in Summer 2018 as it's the summer straight after junior year. It's just that the poster contradicted that, so it's nice that this at least appears to get it right.

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    • Was rewatching Daredevil Season 2 and noticed in Episode 4 that one of the Irish that is looking for Frank describes him as wearing a jacket even in the middle of Summer. This would make the season’s beginning closer to 6 months (what Charlie Cox said) after Season 1 and along with the heat wave and July 20th Date of Death from the Irish Massacre victim make a Summer placement for the beginning of the season seem logical. Is there any logical way to stretch Season 2 out to begin in July and end in November (Christmas time jump excluded) ? Such as the time it takes for Frank’s trial to start.

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    • We decided long ago that the season began on October 2015. And there is no way it can be July. I will always take it as the guy saying that the Punisher persona is so weird that he would use a jacket in summer as we know in October 2015 the MCU experimented a weird weather.

      The July 20th date is not mentioned to be to the massacre seen in Bang. It is just another massacre made by the Punisher since the time he woke up.

      And the time it took the trial to begin was a week. Not months. There is no possible way to stretch it.

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    • Plus, July is ruled put because in The Punisher S1 is said that it's been like a year since the Punisher began his crusade. A year before early December 2016 would take us to October-november 2015. Which works perfectly.

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    • Agents of SHIELD Season 6 begins about 1 year after they dropped off Coulson and May in Tahiti.

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    • Yeah. Skipping Endgame and Far From Home, very clever indeed!

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    • Agreed, but I'm sure like BETJ, I'm a smidge nervous if/when they reference Endgame and/or Far From Home -- hope they don't try to pin them in 2019 since right now we know those two are in 2018 still. I'm just hopping for a passing reference to people vanishing and reappaering.

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    • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is the best product in the MCU to not screw the timeline. So I would not worry about that. We are safe.

      And I am pretty sure people will not remember the Snap at all after Endgames ends.

      Nothing to worry about timeline-wise

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    • Mrmichaelt wrote:
      Agreed, but I'm sure like BETJ, I'm a smidge nervous if/when they reference Endgame and/or Far From Home -- hope they don't try to pin them in 2019 since right now we know those two are in 2018 still. I'm just hopping for a passing reference to people vanishing and reappaering.

      Like Marvelus said, AoS is as precise with the timeline as the Wiki is, they wouldn't mess it up. They're not SONY with that "8 years later" mess lol

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    • Daredevil: Season 2 (Rman823, Marvelus)

      Rman823 wrote: Was rewatching Daredevil Season 2 and noticed in Episode 4 that one of the Irish that is looking for Frank describes him as wearing a jacket even in the middle of Summer. This would make the season’s beginning closer to 6 months (what Charlie Cox said) after Season 1 and along with the heat wave and July 20th Date of Death from the Irish Massacre victim make a Summer placement for the beginning of the season seem logical. Is there any logical way to stretch Season 2 out to begin in July and end in November (Christmas time jump excluded) ? Such as the time it takes for Frank’s trial to start.

      Marvelus wrote: We decided long ago that the season began on October 2015. And there is no way it can be July. I will always take it as the guy saying that the Punisher persona is so weird that he would use a jacket in summer as we know in October 2015 the MCU experimented a weird weather.

      The July 20th date is not mentioned to be to the massacre seen in Bang. It is just another massacre made by the Punisher since the time he woke up.

      And the time it took the trial to begin was a week. Not months. There is no possible way to stretch it.

      Exactly what Marvelus says, we spent a long time on that. There's no way to make it work. The online forum The Comic Board did make it work, but we respectfully strongly disagree - the way they made it work is that despite Foggy's line at the end of I believe it's Episode 6 saying Frank's trial starts "next week", they decided that you have to assume it got delayed a few months between the episodes. But the line's there, we don't find it ignore-able - plus it's very hard to believe that everything going on in their lives with Elektra and the Hand and their relationships etc. just hit the pause button for 3 or 4 months.

      The only possible gap is between Episodes 3 and 4, but it's clearly no more than a few days, so there's no way to make it work. You just have to assume that there was a weirdly late heatwave in October and the line about wearing the vest even in summer is referring to the fact that he's been around for a few months including during summer where he still wore the jacket, possibly just saying that as a way of saying, "He wore it even in summer despite the heat, he'll be wearing it now as well despite the heat, he wears it no matter the weather." While the implication is that it's currently summer, it's not without flexibility, and it just can't be.

      And as Marvelus says, the July 20th isn't necessarily the massacre from Episode 1. I thought it was as well after the first time I watched, but on rewatch I realised that that's never stated, and in fact it is kind of implied to not be that massacre but just one from back in July.

      Which also helps with the previous thing about him being around in summer - it proves he definitely was.

      Marvelus wrote: Plus, July is ruled put because in The Punisher S1 is said that it's been like a year since the Punisher began his crusade. A year before early December 2016 would take us to October-november 2015. Which works perfectly.

      Well they don't say since it began, just that it's been "barely a year" since the crusade, but that would imply that from start to finish the main part of his crusade, which was all shown in Daredevil: Season 2, was late 2015, before December.


      Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (Mrmichaelt, Marvelus, Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Agents of SHIELD Season 6 begins about 1 year after they dropped off Coulson and May in Tahiti.

      Thank you! That's good, I was a bit concerned from the trailer that it seemed like they'd only just picked up May from Tahiti (when they said he had a maximum of "weeks" I think in The End), meaning that when the season premiered in July 2019 it would be a year behind real time, which tends to cause more problems. I also thought that the search for Fitz would be immediate, but maybe they've just had no luck for a year.

      But that's great, it catches us up nicely. And now it's been revealed that despite what Elizabeth Henstridge said, it will actually premiere in May (July did seem a bit weird because it wouldn't all air in the gap between U.S. TV seasons of May-September). Guessing late May to mid-August then, and that will mean that it will be set basically in real time.

      Marvelus wrote: Yeah. Skipping Endgame and Far From Home, very clever indeed!

      I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, but I think it's a good thing. All three 2019 Marvel films seem to be anomalous timeline-wise, with Captain Marvel being set in 1995, Endgame being possibly set across many years, and Far from Home being set in 2018, but I think buy and large the MCU will still move in real time. So in the same way that, while Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 was set in 2014, Spider-Man: Homecoming 2016, and Black Panther 2016, the MCU was still sort of checking in with real time, with Doctor Strange and then with Thor: Ragnarok, and then with things coming back together in real time with Avengers: Infinity War. I'm sure Black Widow will have some present day scenes, The Eternals will be at least a good chunk present day, Black Panther 2 present day, Doctor Strange 2 present day, etc..

      Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. has done well with the jumping-around Phase Three timeline. One of the writers or producers or showrunners, I can't remember who, noted when Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 came out and they said there was going to be no tie-in that as well as there being no easy story way to tie it in, it was set in the past. And they didn't do a tie-in with Homecoming (although that came out between seasons) or Black Panther (which came out during the present day episodes of Season 5). The only tie-ins they did after Civil War, when things started jumping around, were Doctor Strange, Thor: Ragnarok, and Avengers: Infinity War - the present-day-set films.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: Agreed, but I'm sure like BETJ, I'm a smidge nervous if/when they reference Endgame and/or Far From Home -- hope they don't try to pin them in 2019 since right now we know those two are in 2018 still. I'm just hopping for a passing reference to people vanishing and reappaering.

      Marvelus wrote: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is the best product in the MCU to not screw the timeline. So I would not worry about that. We are safe.

      And I am pretty sure people will not remember the Snap at all after Endgames ends.

      Nothing to worry about timeline-wise

      Yeah, as Marvelus says, I'm not too worried about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. causing problems. The only times it is problematic tend to be because the films caused it problems, rather than the other way around.

      It and Jessica Jones are the least problematic shows.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Like Marvelus said, AoS is as precise with the timeline as the Wiki is, they wouldn't mess it up. They're not SONY with that "8 years later" mess lol

      I think, with things like Coulson's obituary in Hot Potato Soup, that they might actually use the wiki timeline.

      Also I'm not necessarily sure Sony were behind "8 years later". I know a lot of people just pin it on them because the big mistake that didn't align with the rest of the Marvel stuff came in the film that was a joint product with Sony, so it makes sense to make that assumption. But considering what we've heard about Eric Caroll's timeline scroll and the fact that Feige defended it initially, I think it was Marvel.

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    • Hey, I was going through the timeline and noticed that there's a duplicate item under November 17, 2015: "Nelson visits Murdock, and together they decide to end Nelson and Murdock.[37]"

      It's listed with several items between them so I'm not sure which one should be removed.

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    • I think both are wrong placed and under the wrong episode reference, we have it listed as episode 9 from Season 2, but the scene of Nelson and Murdock ending their partnership happens three episodes later in The Dark at the End of the Tunnel.

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    • Hi guys. I'm back from a hectic 2 weeks where I couldn't do much work. Thanks Ozzzo for the heads up, these things slip through the cracks sometimes.

      I just thought I'd reraise some of the unsolved current problems.

      1. Captain Marvel Prelude: Any further opinions other than Mrmichaelt and Marvelus about the fact that the Syria scene seems to flow from the Avengers: Infinity War Syria scene but has several continuity errors if that is the case - whether we should take them as subsequent nonetheless or whether we should treat them separately because the errors are irreconcilable.
      2. 2018 page: I've done some more thinking about the problem of the 2018 page, and I'm thinking that we should go ahead with changing "March" to "Spring/Summer" for the next couple of months and remove the numbers (and tweak the references accordingly), but don't want to do it if anyone thinks that's a bad idea. However, I've slightly changed my mind about how to do the days, where I suggested initially to do "Monday 1", "Tuesday 1"... "Saturday 1", "Sunday 1", "Monday 2", "Tuesday 2" etc. or "First Monday", "First Tuesday"... "First Saturday", "First Sunday", "Second Monday" etc., but the numbers could be confusing, mixing up with date numbers, and the words could be confusing if someone interprets it as "the first Monday of Spring", "the first Tuesday of spring", etc.. So it might just be best (and cleaner) to do "Monday", "Tuesday"... "Saturday", "Sunday", "Monday", "Tuesday etc.. While it's not ideal because it doesn't show that every day follows (you could potentially think "But maybe that Tuesday isn't just the day after the Monday, it just says "Tuesday", could be a few weeks + 1 day later), the content and the fact that most of the days have something happening in them should hopefully make that clearer, plus the references, and it is cleaner. So yeah, thoughts? I think it's the best solution for now.
      3. Runaways: Season 2 Gert and Chase "Thursday": To reiterate, there's a problem in Runaways: Season 2 where on one day, Gert and Chase have a discussion that appears to say it's Thursday, but then what appears to be 8 days later is specifically said by Victor to be Wednesday, so either 8 days do pass between those scenes (making the Gert and Chase scene actually a Tuesday) or there's an extra 5 days that pass in the time between those scenes than there appeared to be, which is just about possible, and would allow them to be both Thursday and Wednesday respectively. So I'd still be interested in whether people think that "the Gert and Chase scene can just be a Tuesday despite the implication of the scene, allowing 8 days before the Wednesday scene" or "there should be 13 days between the Gert and Chase scene and the Wednesday scene, allowing them both to work even if it's a stretch" is the better option. I'll quote the part from my Season 2 notes, deleting the irrelevant parts, so you can look at the two options and the notes relating to them for the full picture. Since I didn't write the events like I usually do, you might want to remind yourself what happened in each episode for when I just refer to "Episode X Minute Yish to Minute Zish".

      BEJT wrote: Day C4, Thursday? [Thursday, January 11th? or Tuesday, January 9th]

      • Episode 4 Minute 6ish to end.
        • "It is starting to feel like it's all just Tuesday now. No wait, Wednesday. No wait, it is Tuesday." "Think it's actually Thursday..." "Ha, whatever..." Sounds like it's Thursday. Edit: There's a problem since what appears to be 8 days later and is definitely at least 7 days later is said to be "Wednesday", which doesn't work. We might have to revise this and assume that maybe it is actually Tuesday and Gert is joking.
        • Karolina has voicemails from Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and another one at the top that I can't read that might also just be Thursday, which would fit with this being Thursday.
        • It's term time at Atlas. Since it's a Thursday, the earliest it should really be is Thursday, January 11th, as most schools went back Monday, January 8th. It especially shouldn't really be earlier since we already had to assume their term went on one week later than most schools', to December 22nd. That would mean inserting several days in the few available gaps, but it's just about possible. The 11th really is the latest possible Thursday, there's no stretching it further than that I feel. Edit: If it's Tuesday, it's Tuesday, January 9th.
      • Episode 5 beginning to Minute 13ish.

      Day C5, Friday? (C4 is Thursday?) [Friday, January 12th? or Wednesday, January 10th?]

      • Episode 5 Minute 13ish to end.
        • "Guess it's just one of those days." "To be fair, haven't they all been those kinds of days since we ran?" "I don't know, think there was one Thursday in there that was pretty normal." Sounds like it's been a few Thursdays since they went on the run, and the tone implies it's been a while anyway. I think this is now Friday, January 12th, which works with term time, so they had Thursday 28th, 4th, and 11th since they went on the run. This is just about enough weeks for them to be joking about "one Thursday", as if there's been numerous. But as mentioned, it cannot really be later than Friday 12th, because it's really pushing it. Edit: If it's Wednesday then it might be Wednesday, January 10th, which is a bit more problematic because there's only been 2 Thursdays but I guess it's still enough weeks in general to be saying "there was one day in there (which was a Thursday)".
      • Episode 6 beginning to Minute 11ish.

      Day C6, Saturday? (C4 is Thursday?) [Saturday, January 13th? or Thursday, January 11th?]

      • Episode 6 Minute 11ish to end.

      Day C7, Sunday? (C4 is Thursday?) [Sunday, January 14th? or Friday, January 12th?]

      • Episode 7 beginning to Minute 45ish.
        • "2 months ago, our biggest issue was that there were no vegan options in the cafeteria." OK, so this has to be more than 1 month after December 8th (otherwise you'd say "1 month ago"), so that finalises it - this cannot be Sunday, January 7th, it has to be at least Sunday, January 14th. That means that them being in school during term time 3 days prior is essentially forced to work, because it has to be no earlier than Thursday 11th. So that's sorted. It does mean we have to slip some not-easy gaps in during early episodes, but I'm kind of glad that this, like Season 1, means that we're not just slipping in gaps to make certain things awkwardly work but are actually slipping in gaps to fit what the show is telling us. While "2 months ago" would suggest this is more like 1.5 months since December 8th, there's no way it's later than January 14th, we're already really pushing it. So yeah, I think this secures it. No earlier than January 14th, no later than January 14th. It's January 14th. Edit: It might have to actually be Friday, January 12th.

      Day C8, Monday? (C4 is Thursday?) [Monday, January 15th? or Saturday, January 13th?]

      • Episode 7 Minute 45ish to end.

      Day D1 (Seemingly at least next day, seemingly next day. 92.96875% eliminated.) [Wednesday, January 17th? or Sunday, January 14th?]

      • Episode 8 beginning to end.
        • Tamar's leaving the hospital after childbirth. The baby was due around January 9th but up to January 14th, plus a few days if necessary for overdue/complications, plus a little while at the hospital. This has to be no later than about January 21st. It seems to be January 16th, so that works reasonably well, if we say perhaps the baby was due around the 12th or 13th-ish, born a couple of days late, and she left the hospital roughly the next day.
      • Episode 9 beginning to Minute 11ish.

      Day D2 [Thursday, January 18th? or Monday, January 15th?]

      • Episode 9 Minute 11ish to Minute 37ish.

      Day E1 (At least next day, seemingly next day. 87.5% eliminated.) [Saturday, January 20th? or Tuesday, January 16th?]

      • Episode 9 Minute 37ish to Minute 41ish.

      Day F1 (Seemingly same day. 96.875% eliminated.) [Saturday, January 20th? or Tuesday, January 16th?]

      • Episode 9 Minute 41ish to Minute 42ish (Nico and Karolina).

      Day G1 (Seemingly same day. 87.5% eliminated.) [Sunday, January 21st? or Tuesday, January 16th?]

      • Episode 9 Minute 42ish to Minute 44ish (Gert).

      Day H1, Tuesday (H2 is Wednesday) (Seemingly same day. 75% eliminated.) [Tuesday, January 23rd? or Tuesday, January 16th?]

      • Episode 9 Minute 44ish to end (A.W.O.L.).

      Day H2, Wednesday [Wednesday, January 24th? or Wednesday, January 17th?]

      • Episode 10 beginning to end.
        • It's "2 o'clock on a Wednesday". This is problematic because it's seemingly been 8 days (and definitely at least 7) since Gert says it was Thursday, and while there's a few potential gaps in between then and now, they're all 75 or more per cent eliminated. So we have a decision to make, either slip in gaps to add an extra 5 days, which is quite a stretch, or we assume that this is actually Wednesday and not Friday, so when Gert said it was Thursday, it was actually Tuesday - there's some slight wiggle room there because they were joking around a bit. Either way, we're basically going to have to use some slight wiggle room. I've put the two options in the square brackets for each day: first option is adding 5 days, second option is assuming Gert is joking and it is actually Tuesday. I've also gone back to some previous notes and put "Edit: xyz" if this affects those.


      Finally, I've now done 12 out of 13 The Punisher: Season 2 episode notes, and Episode 12 really nails down the timeline. The scene with the mobile phone with a calendar saying "13" is 2-4 days after Billy's robbery, which is explicitly said twice to be Friday, and is where we get the May calendar, making it Friday 4th, 11th, 18th, or 25th. This means that the scene with the phone is Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday 6th-8th, 13th-15th, 20th-22nd, 27th-29th. Notice the "13th" there. It would be really nice if it could line up so the scene is a Sunday, 2 days after the robbery, meaning it can indeed be "13" and also 2 days after a Friday in May.

      Well, Episode 12 confirms it. Up to that point, I worked out that there was a small (but big enough) chance that it's been 2 days since the robbery (which is what we want) and a bigger chance that it's been more like 3 (no more than 4). But in Episode 12, 2 days after the scene with the phone, Mahoney says it's "Tuesday", meaning the phone scene was Sunday (And indeed just 2 days after the robbery). So the phone scene is a Sunday 2 days after a Friday in May, making it 6th, 13th, 20th, or 27th. 13th! It lines up very nicely with the phone.

      So yes, the robbery is Friday, May 11th and the phone scene is Sunday, May 13th, and the rest of the season revolves around that.

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    • Yeah I was expecting to see your work on the Timeline checking every day I could if you made some notes about The Punisher S2, by the way I have written until Luke Cage S2 E2. While it is not ideal, I think 14 months since The Defenders might work and feels good. When you put the idea in your head, you believe it is right.

      1) As I said, no way the scenes from AIWP and CMP can be the same. They are just way too different between each other.
      2) I agree with the 2018 page.
      3) I trust in your judgment, if you can put 5 extra days between the episodes then you can do it. Also it gives us more time to extend the season and avoid possible timejumps in the future timeline of the show.
      4)Nice work on The Punisher S2 (last season)! I am looking forward to see how all is settled in stone once Endgame and Far From Hom geys released
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    • Marvelus wrote: Yeah I was expecting to see your work on the Timeline checking every day I could if you made some notes about The Punisher S2.

      Sorry, been busy. I work whenever I can, trying not to get stressed when I can't these days because I know that in the grand scheme of things, I can work fine.

      Marvelus wrote: By the way I have written until Luke Cage S2 E2. While it is not ideal, I think 14 months since The Defenders might work and feels good. When you put the idea in your head, you believe it is right.

      Thanks man. And yeah, it's one of those things where if you have come to the conclusion that it has to be 14/15 months and watch it with that in mind, you can see that it's just about feasible.

      Marvelus wrote:

      1) As I said, no way the scenes from AIWP and CMP can be the same. They are just way too different between each other.

      Yeah Mrmichaelt says consecutive, you say separate, I'm not sure (maaaybe leaning slightly to consecutive), so I'm looking for more opinions.

      Marvelus wrote:

      2) I agree with the 2018 page.

      OK great.

      Marvelus wrote:

      3) I trust in your judgment, if you can put 5 extra days between the episodes then you can do it. Also it gives us more time to extend the season and avoid possible timejumps in the future timeline of the show.

      To be clear, I don't have an opinion on this. I'm 50:50, not sure which way to go. Both have about equal pros and cons.

      Marvelus wrote:

      4)Nice work on The Punisher S2 (last season)! I am looking forward to see how all is settled in stone once Endgame and Far From Hom geys released

      RIP Marvel Netflix😔. Jeph Loeb has given us some hope but it's unclear if it's just him being hopeful himself or if there's actually some things in the works. We'll see.

      And yeah, I am also looking forward to settling it.


      Oh, and two things. One, looks like O'Reilly really is going to be acting normal enough that the Luke Cage reference works fine. Two, Ozzzo, if you didn't see, we set up the thread for writing up.

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    • About Runaways, if you can fit the extra 5 days in there I think that's good, since I think it's better to stretch S2 as far as we can.

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    • IGN has a Captain Marvel clip "Interrogation" where Fury tells Carol a couple things about his past. Don't want to spoil them here since I'd guess that's against the rules. But glad to see we'll be learning a couple more things about him and some things to try and figure out for the timeline.

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    • This might contain vital information for the Timeline

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    • BEJT wrote: [Episode 7 - One Bad Day] **Flashback: 11:23 - Monroe interviews Madani after her head injury. **"One year ago". This would suggest it is only a year since Season 1 in present day, but this can work fine with it being Spring 2018, if this is early January 2017, a couple of weeks after the end of Season 1.

      Couldn't help but notice the blood coming through the bandage in this flashback and the lack of blood on her bandage in her final scene of season 1 (When Frank is told he's free to go - three days later according to the 2016 page)  It made me think that the flashback took place between the incident at the carousel and the scene at the hospital.  I also feel like they would have debriefed her sooner rather than later if she's awake.  Am I reading too much into that?  I'm not sure if that would mean sticking the flashback within those three days or moving the scene at the end of Season 1 into January.  It would make more sense that it takes Madani more than a couple of days to wake up from a headshot, though I'm far from an expert on that injury and Frank Castle himself suffered the same type of wound and we know he was basically awake pretty soon after.  Just a thought.  You guys of course are the masters at this stuff; I'm just trying to make sense of it in my head.

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    • It was mentioned in the show that the scene took 3 days later.

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    • Not really timeline related but thought I'd share this here. He cites our Wiki and our Timeline as a major source. He's left out all of Agent Carter (show and one-shots), but he's included everything else in a chronological cut from 2006-2018 (which I guess means he also cuts out any flashback from before then).

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    • That is perfect! He cut AC because he only added events from 2006 to 2018, right?

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    • Marvelus wrote:
      That is perfect! He cut AC because he only added events from 2006 to 2018, right?

      Yes, one of his posts says he loves the show, but he only wanted stuff from 2006 to 2018, and followed our timeline to know what to include and where. So I'm assuming it's missing a ton of flashbacks. I do find it odd that he kept the first Captain America movie. While the framing device IS in modern day, the movie itself is obviously 1940's.

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    • So I have some notes on MCU novels. I know the canonicity of these is questionable, but I'll share my thoughts on them anyways. The only three novels that I know of which have original stories instead of rehashes are Thanos: Titan Consumed, Infinity War: the Cosmic Quest Vol One and Infinity War: the Cosmic Quest Vol Two. So these are the only ones that I have read or are reading. If there are any others, let me know please. But I couldn't find any.

      The Thanos is definitely not canon as said by Marvel Studios, but the writer said he worked with Marvel Studios on it so maybe the canon backstory is something similar. I won't spoil any plot details unless someone wants me to, but from the books, it seems that Thanos is probably only 50-60 years old by the time of Infinity War, at the most. So that would make the collapse of Titan only like 30 years ago, so maybe 1990 or something.

      Cosmic Quest Vol One is a story about the Collecter and the Grandmaster. I haven't finished this one yet, but it's definitely after Ragnarok. I'm curious to see if it will lead up to Thanos taking the reality stone from the Collector.

      Cosmic Quest Vol Two is a story after Infinity War about Erik Selvig and Darcy mainly, but in the beginning, they aren't sure about Jane Foster's fate. They think she may have disappeared with the Decimation. I won't spoil her fate here, but if someone wants to know, I can say. The story was ok, but it was only about scientists. There was no superhero action or anything. Which is fine and could be interesting, but it was mostly just ok.

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    • CirUmeUela wrote:
      So I have some notes on MCU novels. I know the canonicity of these is questionable, but I'll share my thoughts on them anyways. The only three novels that I know of which have original stories instead of rehashes are Thanos: Titan Consumed, Infinity War: the Cosmic Quest Vol One and Infinity War: the Cosmic Quest Vol Two. So these are the only ones that I have read or are reading. If there are any others, let me know please. But I couldn't find any.

      The Thanos is definitely not canon as said by Marvel Studios, but the writer said he worked with Marvel Studios on it so maybe the canon backstory is something similar. I won't spoil any plot details unless someone wants me to, but from the books, it seems that Thanos is probably only 50-60 years old by the time of Infinity War, at the most. So that would make the collapse of Titan only like 30 years ago, so maybe 1990 or something.

      Cosmic Quest Vol One is a story about the Collecter and the Grandmaster. I haven't finished this one yet, but it's definitely after Ragnarok. I'm curious to see if it will lead up to Thanos taking the reality stone from the Collector.

      Cosmic Quest Vol Two is a story after Infinity War about Erik Selvig and Darcy mainly, but in the beginning, they aren't sure about Jane Foster's fate. They think she may have disappeared with the Decimation. I won't spoil her fate here, but if someone wants to know, I can say. The story was ok, but it was only about scientists. There was no superhero action or anything. Which is fine and could be interesting, but it was mostly just ok.

      I believe someone mentioned earlier in this thread that "The Heroes' Journey: Avengers: Infinity War", "The Heroes' Journey: Ant-Man & the Wasp", "The Cosmic Quest Volume One: Beginning" and "The Cosmic Quest Volume Two: Aftermath" are the canon novels.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      I believe someone mentioned earlier in this thread that "The Heroes' Journey: Avengers: Infinity War", "The Heroes' Journey: Ant-Man & the Wasp", "The Cosmic Quest Volume One: Beginning" and "The Cosmic Quest Volume Two: Aftermath" are the canon novels.

      Thanks, I knew about those two but previously thought that they were just simple retellings. But I read some more reviews and it seems they do have new backstory, so I'll probably check those out too.

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    • Runaways: Season 2 (DaenerysTheMadKhal58)

      DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: About Runaways, if you can fit the extra 5 days in there I think that's good, since I think it's better to stretch S2 as far as we can.

      Good point, thank you for your input. Looking like we're leaning towards the extra days then.

      Just to be make sure I was clear before we make the final decision, what I was trying to say is "Do you think there's leniency in that Gert/Chase scene":
      "It is starting to feel like it's all just Tuesday now. No, wait. Wednesday. No, wait, it is Tuesday."
      "Think it's actually Thursday."
      Both chuckle.

      I read it as Gert correcting him (i.e. it is Thursday), but I'm checking I'm not the only one who read it like that


      Captain Marvel (Mrmichaelt)

      Mrmichaelt wrote: IGN has a Captain Marvel clip "Interrogation" where Fury tells Carol a couple things about his past. Don't want to spoil them here since I'd guess that's against the rules. But glad to see we'll be learning a couple more things about him and some things to try and figure out for the timeline.

      Nice! Can't wait to see it on Friday.


      Spider-Man: Far from Home (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: This might contain vital information for the Timeline

      Once the film is out, I'll have a look about maybe getting it if it's necessary and/or there's evidence that it could contain timeline information. Thanks for noticing it.


      The Punisher: Season 2 "One Year Ago" Flashback (Nox23, Marvelus)

      Nox23 wrote: BEJT wrote: [Episode 7 - One Bad Day] **Flashback: 11:23 - Monroe interviews Madani after her head injury. **"One year ago". This would suggest it is only a year since Season 1 in present day, but this can work fine with it being Spring 2018, if this is early January 2017, a couple of weeks after the end of Season 1.

      Couldn't help but notice the blood coming through the bandage in this flashback and the lack of blood on her bandage in her final scene of season 1 (When Frank is told he's free to go - three days later according to the 2016 page)  It made me think that the flashback took place between the incident at the carousel and the scene at the hospital.  I also feel like they would have debriefed her sooner rather than later if she's awake.  Am I reading too much into that?  I'm not sure if that would mean sticking the flashback within those three days or moving the scene at the end of Season 1 into January.  It would make more sense that it takes Madani more than a couple of days to wake up from a headshot, though I'm far from an expert on that injury and Frank Castle himself suffered the same type of wound and we know he was basically awake pretty soon after.  Just a thought.  You guys of course are the masters at this stuff; I'm just trying to make sense of it in my head.

      OK good spot, thank you. The blood would suggest that the scene takes place earlier than the "Three days later" Memento Mori scene. Not sure about the debrief point because they'd want her to be able to have recovered enough and I'm not sure it's necessarily a debrief but rather an inquiry, but I agree the blood is an indicator. However, that scene really does have to be pushed to at least January 1st to work, and it's not the biggest leap to assume that she'd just had a fresh bandage wrapped in the Memento Mori scene and had had that bandage for a few days in the Season 2 flashback, and there's still just a bit of bleeding a couple of weeks later. It's far from ideal but I don't know, she was shot in the head, it's not just a cut. As Marvelus says...

      Marvelus wrote: It was mentioned in the show that the scene took 3 days later.

      Yeah, that scene can't be moved, it's fixed. So you just have to make some mild assumptions I guess. The intent might well have been that that scene is set between the carousel fight and the epilogue of Memento Mori, but one has to be mid-December and one has to be early January so oh well. The flashback also has Marion saying that Frank's liberty relies on her covering up the truth, so that maybe works a bit better as it being after Frank has been given his liberty in that epilogue scene.


      Reddit User (Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Not really timeline related but thought I'd share this here. He cites our Wiki and our Timeline as a major source. He's left out all of Agent Carter (show and one-shots), but he's included everything else in a chronological cut from 2006-2018 (which I guess means he also cuts out any flashback from before then).

      Always nice to see people using our work, thank you!


      MCU Novels (CirUmeUela, Edward Zachary Sunrose)

      CirUmeUela wrote: So I have some notes on MCU novels. I know the canonicity of these is questionable, but I'll share my thoughts on them anyways. The only three novels that I know of which have original stories instead of rehashes are Thanos: Titan Consumed, Infinity War: the Cosmic Quest Vol One and Infinity War: the Cosmic Quest Vol Two. So these are the only ones that I have read or are reading. If there are any others, let me know please. But I couldn't find any.

      The Thanos is definitely not canon as said by Marvel Studios, but the writer said he worked with Marvel Studios on it so maybe the canon backstory is something similar. I won't spoil any plot details unless someone wants me to, but from the books, it seems that Thanos is probably only 50-60 years old by the time of Infinity War, at the most. So that would make the collapse of Titan only like 30 years ago, so maybe 1990 or something.

      Cosmic Quest Vol One is a story about the Collecter and the Grandmaster. I haven't finished this one yet, but it's definitely after Ragnarok. I'm curious to see if it will lead up to Thanos taking the reality stone from the Collector.

      Cosmic Quest Vol Two is a story after Infinity War about Erik Selvig and Darcy mainly, but in the beginning, they aren't sure about Jane Foster's fate. They think she may have disappeared with the Decimation. I won't spoil her fate here, but if someone wants to know, I can say. The story was ok, but it was only about scientists. There was no superhero action or anything. Which is fine and could be interesting, but it was mostly just ok.

      Thanos: Titan Consumed is confirmed non-canon as you say, and Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War: The Heroes' Journey and Marvel's Ant-Man and the Wasp: The Heroes' Journey are also canon original stories. Like you, I'm only buying/reading the four canon original books because they seem to have a sort of higher status, and a line has to be drawn somewhere because there's a tonne of kids' books and things as well. Also novelisations tend to have canon contradictions anyway because they're based usually on the original script and not the final one.

      Thanos: Titan Consumed is I guess like the inspired canon comics where it might be worth a read because it could provide some clues to the actual canon backstory, interesting that he'd only be that young. It certainly seems that he's much older considering Titan should take much longer to go from him being exiled to them dying off to the state it's in now, and that he looks identical to now back in 1995, and just the sense of the character.

      Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War: The Cosmic Quest - Volume One: Beginning, like you say, from what I've heard is between Ragnarok and Infinity War. I'll be buying and reading it soon.

      Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War: The Cosmic Quest - Volume Two: Aftermath, also like you say, I heard about being about the aftermath of Infinity War, which surprised me at the time. It was a bit odd to me that (until the epilogue of The Punisher: Season 2) the furthest point in the MCU timeline would not be the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp, but rather a not-widely-known Y.A. novel. I'll also be buying and reading soon.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I believe someone mentioned earlier in this thread that "The Heroes' Journey: Avengers: Infinity War", "The Heroes' Journey: Ant-Man & the Wasp", "The Cosmic Quest Volume One: Beginning" and "The Cosmic Quest Volume Two: Aftermath" are the canon novels.

      That was me, yeah,

      CirUmeUela wrote: Thanks, I knew about those two but previously thought that they were just simple retellings. But I read some more reviews and it seems they do have new backstory, so I'll probably check those out too.

      Yeah, they're not just retellings. Marvel's Ant-Man and the Wasp: The Heroes' Journey is the only one I currently own, but I have a birthday coming up and have asked for the other 3, so hopefully I'll have them all and have read them all soon. I haven't had much time to read recently but will have more soon, and am a few chapters into Marvel's Ant-Man and the Wasp: The Heroes' Journey, and it appears to be a lot of "Scott is spending time with Cassie. He asks her to tell him "the Captain America story" again, and he recalls Civil War. Scott spends more time with Cassie. She talks about him being Ant-Man, and he recalls how he became Ant-Man. Hope spends time with Hank, and recalls meeting Scott." So some mostly inconsequential present-day stuff, a lot of recalling the films. But it fills in a few small gaps, like telling us about Hawkeye picking up Scott during Civil War, and has some minor timeline details. I've been taking notes as I read.


      Some Links I've Picked Up Recently (additional)

      I haven't had a trawl through James Gunn's posts yet to find the post Marvelus said confirmed it was set specifically in August 2014, but I happened to discover the way to search a user's Twitter timeline and found several links worth keeping for Gunn confirming 2014 and 2 months between films: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and this old link we've used several times from Facebook that's just worth adding here to keep them together.

      This suggests unlike what Jude Law said, Carol might only have been gone for 6 years. But it might be that her memories are just manipulated to only span 6 years, but she's been gone for 15. Again, I'm assuming that Monica will be a surprise to Carol, so it would have to be at least 12 years.

      Carol was an air force pilot in the "1980s", so 1980 does work.

      Feige, somewhat unclearly, seems to confirm 1995 here.

      The Eternals might be set across millennia.

      Currently watching the Captain Marvel premiere livestream, and about 47 minutes in I think, Lorraine Cink from Marvel first says this is "24 years in Ronan's past" which was a bit confusing because he died in 2014, but then says it's set "24 years" ago after, clarifying the comment and yeah, again basically confirming 1995. Not that there was much doubt after that foreign Disney website included it in the synopsis for a bit.

      Samuel L. Jackson approximated the time between Captain Marvel and Infinity War as "20 years". Fairly meaningless, but should bank any evidence always.

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    • Gunn did not make a post confirming Real Life for Guardians of the Galaxy he put it on a Facebook comment answering a fan. I recall this:

      "When does GotG take place?" "Real time"

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    • Marvelus wrote: Gunn did not make a post confirming Real Life for Guardians of the Galaxy he put it on a Facebook comment answering a fan. I recall this:

      "When does GotG take place?" "Real time"

      Yeah exactly I remember you saying that, and at some point I'll have to trawl through to find it.

      I didn't forget that it was Facebook or that it was a comment, I was just grouping that under "posts".

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    • My bad then. Lets hope you can find it. Because finding a comment from nearly 5 years ago must be kind of impossible.

      I had a dream about the movie and I can recall a scene where Coulson mentions Melinda May 😭😭

      One can dream, right? Godammit Feige please give more adress to the Tv side.

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    • Marvelus wrote: I had a dream about the movie and I can recall a scene where Coulson mentions Melinda May 😭😭

      I have that same dream.

      Marvelus wrote: One can dream, right? Godammit Feige please give more address to the Tv side.

      It's a good dream. I'm surprised no one asked him that yet. Like at the Captain Marvel red carpet.

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    • Then it may happen! My man! Lets hope.

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    • Marvelus wrote: Then it may happen! My man! Lets hope.

      All I really want at this point is a scene of movie characters looking at a bunch of monitors and some are on various news outlets, and some read "UFO in LA?" and "Vigilantes use strange powers in New Orleans" BUT if they went further that that... oh, man, so cool. Looking ahead, naturally I'm curious how or will present day SHIELD be used in TV or movies after season 7.
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    • Marvelus
      Marvelus removed this reply because:
      Accidentally restored
      19:13, March 6, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Curious to see how specific Captain Marvel is with its placement. We know it's 1995, but I wonder if we're given any hints to the month or days. 

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    • Rman823 wrote: Curious to see how specific Captain Marvel is with its placement. We know it's 1995, but I wonder if we're given any hints to the month or days. 

      If they're adhering to real life stuff, that train we've seen in the trailers and promos started operation in August 1995 I believe so that could preserved in the MCU.
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    • It is set after October 20th 1995, that is for sure

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    • Marvelus wrote: It is set after October 20th 1995, that is for sure

      Actually before. Haven't seen the film but I read about spoilers anyway because curiosity and also I feel they're unavoidable anyway so I nowadays I for the most part go in knowing things although sometimes things aren't entirely spelled out so some stuff can surprise me depending what it is.

      That being said though what you're talking about to me sounded appropriate and will be to me one of the best nods in the film. It raises some meta questions though.

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    • I haven't seen either, I saw an edit in the 1990s page referring to a movie released in 1995 (10/20) and J am basing my conclusion from that.

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    • Marvelus wrote:
      I haven't seen either, I saw an edit in the 1990s page referring to a movie released in 1995 (10/20) and J am basing my conclusion from that.

      Really curious how a Mallrats reference is handled. Not only is Stan in the film as himself but there are mentions of Marvel and characters like Spider-Man, Hulk, X-Men, Green Goblin, etc. I guess we could assume that it's a slightly different version of the movie. 

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    • Kevin Feige said that it is a way to highlight his legacy in the Marvel Universe as a whole.

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    • I read up a little and I think we can confirm the movie is before October 20th 1995. Without giving anything away, it seems the reference to it takes place when it was being filmed. Meaning it's most likely early 1995.

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    • Oh... I am sorry you guys spoiled the movie for the Timeline xD. As I used to do in the past, however this year will be different. As I am not excited for any of the MCU films this year, looking forward, of course, but not dying to see it as I used to before. So in order to get a surprise, 0 excitement.

      However I have been told by my little brother some major leaks from tbe films :)

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    • I haven’t really had much spoiled. Just the credit scenes and Stan’s cameo.

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    • Yeah I tried to dance around spoiling it but since you guys are mentioning it Stan's cameo has a reference to Mallrats. Like I said it makes sense timeline wise and is a cool nod but it also raises some meta questions. Is the Watcher Informant actually Stan Lee or is Stan Lee a real person who he auditions to play in the movie? Then there's all the references to Stan's career.

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    • Like I said I haven't seen the film yet the plan is to see it tomorrow. And I guess it should wait until everyone has seen the film but should we start wondering how old some characters are and when their histories sort of came together? Ages of characters like Fury (Proper age not the non-canon one that was removed awhile ago), Carol, Maria, Talos, Ronan (I think Longevity should be added as a Kree ability. That sort of like Asgardians they age at a slower rate than humans hence why Carol doesn't look any different and neither does Ronan between this and the almost 20 year difference with Guardians) and whoever else is necessary. Then again we haven't thought much about Hank and Janet and their history so I guess it all depends on what's important.

      There's also a manner of certain character histories. In the tie-in comics which I don't think were ever meant to be canon anyway Fury had some backstory but I don't know how much it could still line up with this movie. There's backstory for Korath in one that's probably now non-canon completely because it makes it seem like he was raised with Gamora and Nebula when we know now he was a member of Starforce that Ronan probably recruited because he saw potential rather than Thanos sending him to work with Ronan.

      It'll probably be easier to talk about when I see the movie and everyone else does.

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    • I haven't watched Captain Marvel yet, but I think it will introduce a mess in the continuity (not for the shows) but for a movie: Captain America: The Winter Soldier. (Continuity error)

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    • That's something I was thinking about too long before the film came out because they kept hinting the eye thing in this film.

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    • Saw Captain Marvel last night. The only thing really helping with the timeline is Fury mentioning 1989 as 6 years ago (which fits with the film being in 95) and a June calendar behind Fury in a scene. So the most likely placement for the majority of the movie is looking like June 1995. We know the film has to be sometime before the release of Mallrats on 10/20/1995 and this would work. 

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    • Excellent, you are really great at spotting calendars and dates in the MCU products.

      I am seeing it tomorrow, do you remember in which scene is that calendar seen?

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    • Rman823, you beat me to it by a few minutes.

      Just got out of the film half an hour ago. Had a blast, nothing revolutionary story-wise, but had a really fun time.

      And yeah, it's June 1995. Despite the train line opening in August, but oh well, not a big deal.

      What's this about Mallrats? I haven't caught up on the chat (been avoiding in case of spoilers) yet, I'll scroll up and read and respond later but I didn't catch a Mallrats reference.

      It's not explicitly stated that Fury and Coulson just met, luckily. There's a scene where Fury refers to Coulson as "the new guy" but we can just take it that he's just been promoted or something, and he also says something implying they're just getting to know each other but there's easily wiggle room in there.

      Fury's date of birth is shown to be 1950 but I didn't catch the full date. There's a few dates on files and ID cards that I didn't really catch, I think Fury's ID maybe also said that it was issued in 1985. And he's been working a desk job for 6 years, and yeah, despite what Jude Law said, all the stuff in Carol's past was 6 years ago in 1989.

      The timeline seemed fairly sound to me all in all. Although I'd have to check that all the pop culture references line up.

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    • Marvelus, just seen your message (I started typing right as Rman823 posted, so only updated once I'd posted).

      The calendar is fairly obviously shown in a few shots. You'll see it.

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    • Don't want to get too specific, but it's during the scene where they're playing audio from Carol's black box. It's right behind Fury so isn't too hard to miss once you see it. 

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    • BEJT wrote:
      Rman823, you beat me to it by a few minutes.

      Just got out of the film half an hour ago. Had a blast, nothing revolutionary story-wise, but had a really fun time.

      And yeah, it's June 1995. Despite the train line opening in August, but oh well, not a big deal.

      What's this about Mallrats? I haven't caught up on the chat (been avoiding in case of spoilers) yet, I'll scroll up and read and respond later but I didn't catch a Mallrats reference.

      It's not explicitly stated that Fury and Coulson just met, luckily. There's a scene where Fury refers to Coulson as "the new guy" but we can just take it that he's just been promoted or something, and he also says something implying they're just getting to know each other but there's easily wiggle room in there.

      Fury's date of birth is shown to be 1950 but I didn't catch the full date. There's a few dates on files and ID cards that I didn't really catch, I think Fury's ID maybe also said that it was issued in 1985. And he's been working a desk job for 6 years, and yeah, despite what Jude Law said, all the stuff in Carol's past was 6 years ago in 1989.

      The timeline seemed fairly sound to me all in all. Although I'd have to check that all the pop culture references line up.

      During Stan's cameo, he is reading his script from Mallrats and apparently is playing himself. Since the movie came out in October of 95 we can assume that he was working on his cameo around June. The actual filming dates of Mallrats may not agree with this (not sure when his cameo was filmed IRL) but given in that movie he mentions Marvel, Spider-Man, Hulk, etc. we can assume the Mallrats of the MCU is slightly different. 

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    • Thanks, I looked it up on my way back. I've seen Stan's cameo in Mallrats before but I've never seen the film so was not familiar enough with it and didn't recognise the lines.

      It's a bit unclear if he's playing himself because obviously he looks significantly older than he did in 1995 (though I also thought they might have given him a bit of deageing sheen possibly? But still definitely older, and sans beard). I wouldn't think too hard about it, it's a guy who may or may not be playing Stan Lee reading the script for Mallrats presumably before the film's release. I'm not going to bend over backwards to work out the logic of a Stan Lee cameo joke that's clearly not meant to be taken too seriously.

      And yeah, Mallrats probably filmed earlier than June but it's firmly set in June 1995 and the Mallrats reference isn't really a contradiction so, yeah, I'm not too bothered about the minutia of it.


      Will catch up on messages soon.

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    • BEJT wrote:
      Thanks, I looked it up on my way back. I've seen Stan's cameo in Mallrats before but I've never seen the film so was not familiar enough with it and didn't recognise the lines.

      It's a bit unclear if he's playing himself because obviously he looks significantly older than he did in 1995 (though I also thought they might have given him a bit of deageing sheen possibly? But still definitely older, and sans beard). I wouldn't think too hard about it, it's a guy who may or may not be playing Stan Lee reading the script for Mallrats presumably before the film's release. I'm not going to bend over backwards to work out the logic of a Stan Lee cameo joke.

      And yeah, Mallrats probably filmed earlier than June but it's set in June 1995 and the Mallrats reference isn't really a contradiction so, yeah, I'm not too bothered about the minutia of it.

      Yeah, it's a cute meta joke but figuring out how it could work would be an unnecessary headache.  

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    • James Gunn Comment (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: My bad then. Lets hope you can find it. Because finding a comment from nearly 5 years ago must be kind of impossible.

      Not your bad, I didn't make myself clear!

      Yeah, I briefly tried in summer. Facebook is obviously easier than Twitter, Gunn was a very active tweeter, and I did get back to 2013 on his Facebook and start scrolling through, but it eventually crashed and I didn't have the time to go back again. But I will at some point, probably this summer.


      Captain Marvel (Rman823, Mrmichaelt, Marvelus, Steve993, myself)

      Rman823 wrote: Curious to see how specific Captain Marvel is with its placement. We know it's 1995, but I wonder if we're given any hints to the month or days. 

      Obviously we now know it sets itself in June 1995. Apart from the final scene, which is a couple of days later, the film takes place over 3 days I think. Without spoiling, Day 1: Opening, Day 2: Blockbuster not long before dawn and then everything up to the black box/calendar scene, Day 3: The shed, right up to washing dishes. The scene with the calendar, the night of Day 2, could be anywhere between June 1, 1995 00:00 and June 30, 1995 23:59. The middle of that is June 16, 1995 00:00, so the night of June 15, 1995. Therefore the best guess would be that Day 1 is June 14, 1995, Day 2 June 15, 1995, and Day 3 June 16, 1995. Epilogue's probably about 2 days later.

      However, we will need to check about the songs, and other pop culture references. If any of them were released say in late June, obviously the film should be after that.

      References that weren't songs: I remember True Lies (including the image of Arnold and Jamie, so they also exist in the MCU), Hook, and The Right Stuff being in Blockbuster. That's all fine. Someone mentions Brad Pitt as a sex symbol, and he became a sex symbol around Thelma & Louise in 1991 so that's also fine. As well as the Rock the Vote posters we saw in the image Brie posted back in November, which must just be a few years old, I think there might have been a poster up for a campaign for the 1996 election? Seems a bit early but it might have been a party representative campaign, or I just misread it. The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is mentioned, that's fine. The Fonz from Happy Days, that works fine.

      Songs: I've found a list, but the problem is, I can't remember which ones are played in-universe and which are just soundtrack.

      • Whatta Man by Salt-n-Pepa is in-universe in the cop's car. Released 1993.
      • Connection by Elastica, I remember noticing it in the film after it was in the special look, but can't remember when it is in the film. Released 1994 though, so fine.
      • Only Happy When It Rains by Garbage, I remember it being in the film but can't remember when. I hope it's out-of-universe, because it was released in September 1995, or if you take it as just being played off the album it was released on, that's still August 1995. But hey, if it's in-universe then it's not a big deal, it was just released a couple of months earlier in the MCU. It's not like Walk by Foo Fighters in Thor, where we have to actually believe it was released back before it was even recorded in the real world.
      • Waterfalls by TLC is played in Fury's car. Released May 1995, all fine.
      • Come as You Are by Nirvana is played in a scene I can't really describe without spoiling, but in-universe as an existing song. Released 1992 (also was used for The Defenders promotional stuff, which I thought of the moment it started playing).
      • Just a Girl by No Doubt, I don't remember its placement in the film. Released September 1995, and the album released October 1995. Could again be a bit problematic if it's in-universe. Seeing something online saying it is during the final fight, so shouldn't be in-universe.
      • Man on the Moon by R.E.M, I don't remember its placement in the film. Released 1992 though so not a problem.
      • Celebrity Skin by Hole it says online is just the credits, so it wouldn't be a problem that it's from 1998.
      • Crazy on You by Heart is apparently in a memory of Carol as a child, but I don't think it could have been in-universe since it's a go-kart race, can't see where music would be coming from. Regardless, it's from 1975 so that's reasonable. The music might also even be a hint of when the scene is supposed to take place. More on that later.
      • Kiss Me Deadly by Lita Ford is apparently in a memory of Carol and Maria before Carol's crash, and that works because it's from 1988.
      • You Gotta Be by Des'Ree, I don't remember its placement in the film, but it's from 1994 so that's fine.

      If anyone is seeing it again and could keep an ear out for the three songs in bold and if they're in-universe, that would be great.

      Considering the train line, which Mrmichaelt mentions we found out about when the first trailer came out, and that there might be some songs from a couple of months later than June 1995, it might be worth instead considering placing it June 29-July 1, 1995 (as late as possible), as that would mean it's as close as possible to fitting with the real world references (i.e. the assumption of being earlier in the MCU than real world is as small as possible) and also, since often songs play a bit before release on the radio, has a better chance of being close enough to those songs' release to work.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: If they're adhering to real life stuff, that train we've seen in the trailers and promos started operation in August 1995 I believe so that could preserved in the MCU.

      Yeah, I was slightly disappointed with the June calendar, knowing about the August train line going in.

      I also didn't get the chance to memorise which day of the week the calendar started on to check if it actually matches June 1995 with the days of the week. I hope it does, because there's sufficient evidence in the MCU to suggest that the days of the week match.

      Marvelus wrote: It is set after October 20th 1995, that is for sure

      Steve993 wrote: Actually before. Haven't seen the film but I read about spoilers anyway because curiosity and also I feel they're unavoidable anyway so I nowadays I for the most part go in knowing things although sometimes things aren't entirely spelled out so some stuff can surprise me depending what it is.

      That being said though what you're talking about to me sounded appropriate and will be to me one of the best nods in the film. It raises some meta questions though.

      Marvelus wrote: I haven't seen either, I saw an edit in the 1990s page referring to a movie released in 1995 (10/20) and J am basing my conclusion from that.

      Rman823 wrote: Really curious how a Mallrats reference is handled. Not only is Stan in the film as himself but there are mentions of Marvel and characters like Spider-Man, Hulk, X-Men, Green Goblin, etc. I guess we could assume that it's a slightly different version of the movie. 

      As you know, but for others who haven't seen the film, the line he is reading, while I don't remember what it was, doesn't specifically reference anything Marvel. As we discussed, it's not worth the headache to work out the full logic though😂.

      I think he might be credited as playing "Stan Lee" in the film (since GotGV2 they've still credited him as an individual character, not the Watcher Informant). I would say that the Watcher Informant at once point in his history assumed the role of a man called Stan Lee who created comic-books (just different characters/worlds to the ones Stan created in the real world), and they were popular comic-books (like Stan in the real-world), so in-universe Kevin Smith invited him to be in Mallrats for similar reasons to why he did in the real world, for the same role (just switch out character names and things for whatever the MCU equivalent is). This also works for why he looks older than real Stan Lee did in 1995.

      However, I would say that the Watcher Informant's "Stan Lee" persona is not as famous in the MCU as Stan Lee was in the real world, seeing as he doesn't get recognised in the present-day.

      Marvelus wrote: Kevin Feige said that it is a way to highlight his legacy in the Marvel Universe as a whole.

      Rman823 wrote: I read up a little and I think we can confirm the movie is before October 20th 1995. Without giving anything away, it seems the reference to it takes place when it was being filmed. Meaning it's most likely early 1995.

      Marvelus wrote: Oh... I am sorry you guys spoiled the movie for the Timeline xD. As I used to do in the past, however this year will be different. As I am not excited for any of the MCU films this year, looking forward, of course, but not dying to see it as I used to before. So in order to get a surprise, 0 excitement.

      However I have been told by my little brother some major leaks from tbe films :)

      I will never understand this, 0 excitement! How?! This is one of the most exciting years for the MCU! And it makes me sad that you've lost your excitement.

      But if it helps you enjoy things more, I guess that's good.

      Rman823 wrote: I haven’t really had much spoiled. Just the credit scenes and Stan’s cameo.

      Ah it's a shame you had the credits scenes spoiled, the surprise of that mid-credits scene was really exciting for me. One of my favourite MCU credits scenes.

      Steve993 wrote: Yeah I tried to dance around spoiling it but since you guys are mentioning it Stan's cameo has a reference to Mallrats. Like I said it makes sense timeline wise and is a cool nod but it also raises some meta questions. Is the Watcher Informant actually Stan Lee or is Stan Lee a real person who he auditions to play in the movie? Then there's all the references to Stan's career.

      As Rman823 and I discuss, the headache's not worth it😂, but see my explanation above for my take on it.

      Steve993 wrote: Like I said I haven't seen the film yet the plan is to see it tomorrow. And I guess it should wait until everyone has seen the film but should we start wondering how old some characters are and when their histories sort of came together? Ages of characters like Fury (Proper age not the non-canon one that was removed awhile ago), Carol, Maria, Talos, Ronan (I think Longevity should be added as a Kree ability. That sort of like Asgardians they age at a slower rate than humans hence why Carol doesn't look any different and neither does Ronan between this and the almost 20 year difference with Guardians) and whoever else is necessary. Then again we haven't thought much about Hank and Janet and their history so I guess it all depends on what's important.

      There's also a manner of certain character histories. In the tie-in comics which I don't think were ever meant to be canon anyway Fury had some backstory but I don't know how much it could still line up with this movie. There's backstory for Korath in one that's probably now non-canon completely because it makes it seem like he was raised with Gamora and Nebula when we know now he was a member of Starforce that Ronan probably recruited because he saw potential rather than Thanos sending him to work with Ronan.

      It'll probably be easier to talk about when I see the movie and everyone else does.

      I had a quick crack at an approximation for Kree ageing recently, but didn't want to bother doing it if it was going to turn out that Carol was affected by time dilation or used the Quantum Realm or whatever. It was also good I didn't because Jude Law got the time she'd been gone from Earth wrong.

      But last night, after watching, I did the proper maths. I was going to add it to the bottom of this message, but I can add it here since you've asked.

      OK, so Taryan is approximately Craig Parker's age during 2018 filming in human years in 2018, and his sons, Faulnak and Kasius are approximately Samuel Roukin and Dominic Rains' respective ages during 2017 filming in human years in 2091. We can use the average age of when men become fathers for the first time to approximate the ageing difference.

      Faulnak is the older brother. If Dominic Rains were older than Samuel Roukin, we'd have to do some maths to consider both ages, because Faulnak would have to be a bit older than Samuel Roukin in human years, and Kasius would have to be a bit younger than Dominic Rains in human years. But Dominic Rains is younger, so that's fine, we can throw him out.

      Season 6 filmed July 20, 2017-April 15, 2018.

      Craig Parker was born November 12, 1970. He appears in Episodes 20 and 21. The middle of filming for Episode 20 would be roughly 19.5/22 through Season 5 filming, and Episode 21 20.5/22 through, so overall the middle of his filming was about July 20, 2017 + 269 days * (20/22) = March 22, 2018. Craig Parker was about 17,297 days old.

      So, Taryan is about 17,297 human days old in his scenes, which are between March 22-23, 2018 and June 27-28, 2018, so roughly (use this for now) May 10, 2018.

      Samuel Roukin was born August 15, 1980. He appears in Episodes 6 and 7. The middle of filming for Episode 6 would be roughly 5.5/22 through Season 5 filming, and Episode 7 6.5/22 through, so overall the middle of his filming was about July 20, 2017 + 269 days * (6/22) = October 1, 2017. Samuel Roukin was about 13,561 days old.

      So, Faulnak is about 13,561 human days old in his scenes, which are on August 24, 2091.

      Set January 1, 1850 to be "1", January 2, 1850 to be "2", February 1, 1850 to be "32", etc..

      • [Taryan's date of birth] = [May 10, 2018] - 17,297 * [Kree age multiplier]
        = T = 61,491 - 17,297K
      • [Faulnak's date of birth] = [August 24, 2091] - 13,561 * [Kree age multiplier]
        = F = 88,260 - 13,561K

      The average age when a man becomes a father is 30.9, so about 11,286 days.

      • [Faulnak's date of birth] = [Taryan's date of birth] + 11,286 * K
        = F = T + 11,286K

      So:
      88,260 - 13,561K = T + 11,286K
      So 88,260 = T + 24,847K
      So 88,260 = (61,491 - 17,297K) + 24,847K
      = 88,260 = 61,491 - 17,297K + 24,847K
      So 26,769 = 7550K
      So 3.54556 = K.

      So assuming linear relation, Kree age 3.55 * slower than humans.

      This also means Taryan was born around 61,491 - 17,297 * 3.54556 = 163 = June 12, 1850, and Faulnak was born around 88,260 - 13,561 * 3.54556 = 40,179 = January 3, 1960.

      OK, so using that, we can approximate Carol's age. This is going to be more approximate because we don't know exactly to the day when Captain Marvel takes place, but also more importantly, when the majority of Avengers: Endgame takes place. For now, I'm just going to say exactly mid-1995 and exactly mid-2018, so let's just say 23.0 years apart. Since only approximating, I'm also just going to go with Brie's approximate age to the nearest half-month for now.

      Brie was about 28y7.5m (28.625) old during filming for Captain Marvel, 28y1m (28.08333) for Endgame (she filmed it first).

      So her weighted average age was [28.625 * (1 / 28.625) + 28.08333 * (1 / 28.08333)] / [(1 / 28.625) + (1 / 28.08333)] = (1 + 1) / (0.03493 + 0.03561) = 2 / 0.07054 = 28.35158. The weighted average date was [1995.5 * (1 / 28.625) + 2018.5 * (1 / 28.08333)] / [(1 / 28.625) + (1 / 28.08333)] = (1995.5 * 0.03493 + 2018.5 * 0.03561) / (0.03493 + 0.03561) = 141.58160 / 0.07054 = 2007.10985.

      So, Carol should be biologically about 28.35158 around 2007.10985. This would make her 28.35158 + (2018.5 - 2007.10985) / 3.54556 = 28.35158 + 11.39015 / 3.54556 = 31.6ish in human years in Endgame, 3.5 years older than Brie is. It would make her 28.35158 + (2018.5 - 2007.10985) / 3.54556 = 28.35158 - 11.60985 / 3.54556 = 25.1ish in human years in Captain Marvel, 3.5 years younger than Brie is.

      But most importantly, when Carol has her transfusion in mid-1989, she would be 28.35158 + (1989.5 - 2007.10985) / 3.54556 = 28.35158 - 17.60985 / 3.54556 = 23.4ish. She's human until that point, so she would have been born around 1989.5-23.4 = 1966.1ish, around February 1966.

      Mckenna Grace was about 11y11m old during filming, so her scenes would be around early 1978, although the song I mentioned is probably a hint that that scene takes place closer to 1975. Except according to the wiki she's credited as Carol aged 13, so maybe it's 1979. It also says London Fuller plays 6-year-old Carol, so around 1972.

      The other people you ask about. I'm not going to go through the exact maths right now but Lee Pace was about 39y2m (39.16667) old for Captain Marvel and 34y5m (34.41667) old for Guardians of the Galaxy, so let's assume he is 2 / [(1 / 39.16667) + (1 / 34.41667)] = 36.64 in human years around [1995.5 * (1 / 39.16667) + 2014.6 * (1 / 34.41667)] / [(1 / 39.16667) + (1 / 34.41667)] = 2005.67, so born around 2005.67 - 36.64 * 3.54556 = 1875.

      Maria, well, Lashana Lynch was about 30y6m old, so born around December 1964. Monica we know from an interview is 11, so born around December 1983 (depending on the maths taking into consideration the actress' age, which I'll do at some point), making her in her mid-30s in the present-day.

      Talos, don't know. Don't know how Skrulls age.

      Marvelus wrote: I haven't watched Captain Marvel yet, but I think it will introduce a mess in the continuity (not for the shows) but for a movie: Captain America: The Winter Soldier. (Continuity error)

      I don't think it's a spoiler since Samuel L. Jackson confirmed it a while ago to say that we see Fury lose his eye.

      There's two options here. One, it's before Captain Marvel and Fury was just bald and... I don't know... tired and stressed, looking older than he does in June 1995. Two, there's a scene at the end where they offer him a glass eye. We don't see him say like, "No, I'll take an eyepatch!", so maybe he tried a glass eye briefly. Although come to think of it, he still has his bad eye in The Winter Soldier, and I assume you can't just have your bad eye shoved back in after a while.

      Steve993 wrote: That's something I was thinking about too long before the film came out because they kept hinting the eye thing in this film.

      Well they didn't really hint, everyone just assumed because it's a prequel and they tend to show you all the significant moments from a character's past happening in one week in prequels. I was actually very pleased that the film didn't do that for Ronan or Coulson or much with Fury, the eye was the only thing really. There's a moment at the end, but it's not really a coincidence that it happened at the time of Captain Marvel though.

      Rman823 wrote: Saw Captain Marvel last night. The only thing really helping with the timeline is Fury mentioning 1989 as 6 years ago (which fits with the film being in 95) and a June calendar behind Fury in a scene. So the most likely placement for the majority of the movie is looking like June 1995. We know the film has to be sometime before the release of Mallrats on 10/20/1995 and this would work. 

      Marvelus wrote: Excellent, you are really great at spotting calendars and dates in the MCU products.

      I am seeing it tomorrow, do you remember in which scene is that calendar seen?

      BEJT wrote: Rman823, you beat me to it by a few minutes.

      Just got out of the film half an hour ago. Had a blast, nothing revolutionary story-wise, but had a really fun time.

      And yeah, it's June 1995. Despite the train line opening in August, but oh well, not a big deal.

      What's this about Mallrats? I haven't caught up on the chat (been avoiding in case of spoilers) yet, I'll scroll up and read and respond later but I didn't catch a Mallrats reference.

      It's not explicitly stated that Fury and Coulson just met, luckily. There's a scene where Fury refers to Coulson as "the new guy" but we can just take it that he's just been promoted or something, and he also says something implying they're just getting to know each other but there's easily wiggle room in there.

      Fury's date of birth is shown to be 1950 but I didn't catch the full date. There's a few dates on files and ID cards that I didn't really catch, I think Fury's ID maybe also said that it was issued in 1985. And he's been working a desk job for 6 years, and yeah, despite what Jude Law said, all the stuff in Carol's past was 6 years ago in 1989.

      The timeline seemed fairly sound to me all in all. Although I'd have to check that all the pop culture references line up.

      Should also say Marvelus, having discussed this - as I expected, the trailers didn't do Brie justice. She's great in the film. I really grew to like the character and am excited for her future.

      Also, there's a user claiming Fury's full date of birth shown is July 4, 1950 (I only had time to read the "1950" part, but I think the whole date is there). So he shares a birthday with Cap (and America...).

      BEJT wrote: Marvelus, just seen your message (I started typing right as Rman823 posted, so only updated once I'd posted).

      The calendar is fairly obviously shown in a few shots. You'll see it.

      Rman823 wrote: Don't want to get too specific, but it's during the scene where they're playing audio from Carol's black box. It's right behind Fury so isn't too hard to miss once you see it. 

      Rman823 wrote: I think you mean "isn't too hard to catch" or "is a bit hard to miss". I agree, it's not small or anything, it's fairly clear and obvious.

      During Stan's cameo, he is reading his script from Mallrats and apparently is playing himself. Since the movie came out in October of 95 we can assume that he was working on his cameo around June. The actual filming dates of Mallrats may not agree with this (not sure when his cameo was filmed IRL) but given in that movie he mentions Marvel, Spider-Man, Hulk, etc. we can assume the Mallrats of the MCU is slightly different. 

      BEJT wrote: Thanks, I looked it up on my way back. I've seen Stan's cameo in Mallrats before but I've never seen the film so was not familiar enough with it and didn't recognise the lines.

      It's a bit unclear if he's playing himself because obviously he looks significantly older than he did in 1995 (though I also thought they might have given him a bit of deageing sheen possibly? But still definitely older, and sans beard). I wouldn't think too hard about it, it's a guy who may or may not be playing Stan Lee reading the script for Mallrats presumably before the film's release. I'm not going to bend over backwards to work out the logic of a Stan Lee cameo joke that's clearly not meant to be taken too seriously.

      And yeah, Mallrats probably filmed earlier than June but it's firmly set in June 1995 and the Mallrats reference isn't really a contradiction so, yeah, I'm not too bothered about the minutia of it.


      Will catch up on messages soon.

      Rman823 wrote: Yeah, it's a cute meta joke but figuring out how it could work would be an unnecessary headache.  

      Indeed. But my rough sketch of an explanation is above.

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    • I haven't watched the movie yet, is it true that Carol and Fury use a computer with Windows 95? I googled it and it was released in August of 95. Not really a problem if that's the case, just something to note.

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    • I just saw it...

      @BEJT, yes man, 0 excitement for all the MCU products this year (not even the TV Shows). A lot of thing going down in my life that I cannot put too much attention to the MCU.

      I must say that a lot of things have affected the way I feel into the MCU, BEJT knows what I am talking about as you have participated in the Discussion session. My worries that Feige could just chose to ignore the MCU TV Shows do bother me (I know I should not take into account assumptions but they still worry me because I feel deep down it might get truth, I just hope not. Please never happen). And other stuff happening that I have decided to put the MCU aside for a while. Still my hobby but for the first time in a while I am putting more important things above my hobbies and that will be rewarded I am sure of that :)

      Now. The movie was GREAT!! Loved it. It started a bit rushed and confusing like it was forcing the character to be liked (I didn't like Carol's jokes xD) but then it got better while the movie was moving into the third act. Maria is such a great character, most convincing actress in the entire movie. I loved seeing Fury and Coulson and liked Ronan even tho he did nothing compared to what I expected.

      Brie Larson is a very good actress. I like her character development. And didn't expect the Skrulls twist. I mean I knew the Krees were the bad guys because I was spoiled by my little brother (: but a good twist. I don't know how are they going to adapt Secret Invasion.

      And I knew the Krees were the bad guys after all after seeing their development in Guardians of the Galaxy and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. And thst is why I would hate the TV Show being gone. All I could think about while watching the Krees was all their history built in the MCU. When I saw the moon I was thinking about the Inhuman Royal Family living in there by the time. And all the experiments the Krees did in order to gain the wars they began against the Skrulls, the Xandarians, the Inhumans and all. Wasting that entire story would be such a stupid move.

      And I also loved how Coulson did not turn Danvers and Fury in, while in the movie is never stated I am sure that it was because he recruited him into S.H.I.E.L.D. and it was such a powerful moment for me because I know all the things they lived and are about to live. That kind of storyline is something that the movies would not pay attention to. And they never contradicted that Fury recruited Coulson so I am so happy that at least the films are not contradicting the TV Shows. I don't care if they do never interact but I hope that they do not contradict them.

      Anyway, I loved the movie. A great movie by Marvel Studios. After a great Black Panther, a blast with Avengers: Infinity War and the simple and mediocre Ant-Man and the Wasp is good to see something different. I liked Ant-Man and the Wasp but it was so simple, I could give it a 10 out of 10 because it felt too simple that I could not think of a bad thing.

      Lets hope Marvel keeps bringing new shows and starts changing the way they do movies, while I love them I think they need to show new themes, like the ones the TV Shows handled.

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    • Captain Marvel FULL SPOILERS

      DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: I haven't watched the movie yet, is it true that Carol and Fury use a computer with Windows 95? I googled it and it was released in August of 95. Not really a problem if that's the case, just something to note.

      I realised as I was watching, "Oh there's some computer OS/software here that might need checking," but kind of thought, "Well there won't be anything distinctive that I can remember about the OS/software's appearance where I'd be able to track down exactly what it was just by Googling, hopefully if there's something worth noting I'll stumble across it," but then the June calendar came up and I think I kind of thought, "Oh, never mind, it's sorted," and forgot to mention it here.

      But now that you've mentioned it, looking at Windows 95 compared to its predecessor, Windows 3.1x, there's a clear difference, and it would seem to me that yes, they use Windows 95. I would also have assumed that Windows 95 came out in 1994, as they tend to number them based on the upcoming year, but you're right, it's August.

      Really seems like other than the Mallrats reference, everything would've worked better if it were set around September.

      With the train line, Windows 95, and potentially a couple of the songs (again, if someone's rewatching soon or just watching soon and could check the songs mentioned above that would be great) being from August-September, maybe we should say that the film's main events are as late as possible, June 29-July 1, 1995.

      Marvelus wrote: I just saw it...

      @BEJT, yes man, 0 excitement for all the MCU products this year (not even the TV Shows). A lot of thing going down in my life that I cannot put too much attention to the MCU.

      I must say that a lot of things have affected the way I feel into the MCU, BEJT knows what I am talking about as you have participated in the Discussion session. My worries that Feige could just chose to ignore the MCU TV Shows do bother me (I know I should not take into account assumptions but they still worry me because I feel deep down it might get truth, I just hope not. Please never happen). And other stuff happening that I have decided to put the MCU aside for a while. Still my hobby but for the first time in a while I am putting more important things above my hobbies and that will be rewarded I am sure of that :)

      It just makes me a bit sad that you're not excited, but I think that's also because I'm sad about the people who are all "no one's excited for Captain Marvel!" and whatever and so seeing you, for different, legitimate reasons happen to not be excited just reminds me of all of that.

      I have found that being an MCU fan at a tricky and/or busy time is actually a good thing for me, and I can get more invested and allow myself to escape into that world, and for me, busyness doesn't crowd out excitement. But obviously it does crowd out time that can be devoted to something.

      Marvelus wrote: Now. The movie was GREAT!! Loved it. It started a bit rushed and confusing like it was forcing the character to be liked (I didn't like Carol's jokes xD) but then it got better while the movie was moving into the third act. Maria is such a great character, most convincing actress in the entire movie. I loved seeing Fury and Coulson and liked Ronan even tho he did nothing compared to what I expected.

      Brie Larson is a very good actress. I like her character development. And didn't expect the Skrulls twist. I mean I knew the Krees were the bad guys because I was spoiled by my little brother (: but a good twist. I don't know how are they going to adapt Secret Invasion.

      And I knew the Krees were the bad guys after all after seeing their development in Guardians of the Galaxy and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. And thst is why I would hate the TV Show being gone. All I could think about while watching the Krees was all their history built in the MCU. When I saw the moon I was thinking about the Inhuman Royal Family living in there by the time. And all the experiments the Krees did in order to gain the wars they began against the Skrulls, the Xandarians, the Inhumans and all. Wasting that entire story would be such a stupid move.

      And I also loved how Coulson did not turn Danvers and Fury in, while in the movie is never stated I am sure that it was because he recruited him into S.H.I.E.L.D. and it was such a powerful moment for me because I know all the things they lived and are about to live. That kind of storyline is something that the movies would not pay attention to. And they never contradicted that Fury recruited Coulson so I am so happy that at least the films are not contradicting the TV Shows. I don't care if they do never interact but I hope that they do not contradict them.

      Anyway, I loved the movie. A great movie by Marvel Studios. After a great Black Panther, a blast with Avengers: Infinity War and the simple and mediocre Ant-Man and the Wasp is good to see something different. I liked Ant-Man and the Wasp but it was so simple, I could give it a 10 out of 10 because it felt too simple that I could not think of a bad thing.

      Lets hope Marvel keeps bringing new shows and starts changing the way they do movies, while I love them I think they need to show new themes, like the ones the TV Shows handled.

      I'm really glad you liked it. I absolutely agree about Maria and have just had to defend her on a discussion, I don't know why anyone would have a problem with her.

      I've always said Brie is great and the trailers likely didn't do her justice, and I absolutely stand by that. Aside from just two scenes I can think of, I thought she did really well and brought so much to the character.

      Not all Kree are bad, as this film explores and as Feige has just discussed. But yeah, considering Yon-Rogg was Marvel's worst-kept secret, I had more than a suspicion that things were going that way - although I didn't expect the Skrulls to be fairly good guys (again, Feige has discussed how this absolutely doesn't mean they all are).

      That was my feeling with the Coulson scene as well, although Fury's discussion with Carol about him in the Quinjet does imply otherwise. He calls him "the new guy" and talks about whether or not Coulson likes him in a way that suggests they've not known each other long. But you can just take the former as "He's just joined my division" and the latter at face value, with Fury hoping Coulson likes him. It certainly wasn't explicitly their first meeting and I was so relieved by that.


      One thing I forgot to mention is that I was relieved that Coulson never encounters the Kree properly (Carol is kind of a Kree but not the blue fully alien kind). I think she mentions that she's from "Kree Starforce" when she meets them, but a) it's a throwaway line that easily could not have stuck in Coulson's brain for 18 years, b) it was more important that he didn't specifically meet a blue Kree than just didn't hear their name, c) I can't remember if he's even there at that point yet, and d) if he is, from memory it might already have to be the Skrull, so it's not a problem anyway.

      But then DG2104 pointed out on a discussion something that, because I was so swept up in the film, I didn't register the significance of in the moment. Coulson's final scene, where he asks Fury if it's true that the Kree burned his eye out. So Coulson has heard of the Kree.

      But as I said to them, Coulson never saw them, so he doesn't know what they look like and therefore wouldn't recognise them when he encounters GH in 2013. And sure, he also didn't really seem to know the name when it got brought up, but maybe he just forgot, if not naturally then maybe when Fury removed his memories of the T.A.H.I.T.I. process, as someone suggested before as a potential solve if there was a problem. It's certainly not as egregious as if he had met the proper blue Kree, which was my main worry.

      Captain Marvel FULL SPOILERS

        Loading editor
    • I am very sure Coulson is well aware of the Kree, and Fury ordered him to investigate the Kree because he knew something good would come out of it.

      Fury just erased Coulson's memories about the Krees after his death. That has never been a problem and maybe that is something they will point out in Season Six or Seven from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

        Loading editor
    • BEJT wrote:

      James Gunn Comment (Marvelus)

      Marvelus wrote: My bad then. Lets hope you can find it. Because finding a comment from nearly 5 years ago must be kind of impossible.

      Not your bad, I didn't make myself clear!

      Yeah, I briefly tried in summer. Facebook is obviously easier than Twitter, Gunn was a very active tweeter, and I did get back to 2013 on his Facebook and start scrolling through, but it eventually crashed and I didn't have the time to go back again. But I will at some point, probably this summer.


      Captain Marvel (Rman823, Mrmichaelt, Marvelus, Steve993, myself)

      Rman823 wrote: Curious to see how specific Captain Marvel is with its placement. We know it's 1995, but I wonder if we're given any hints to the month or days. 

      Obviously we now know it sets itself in June 1995. Apart from the final scene, which is a couple of days later, the film takes place over 3 days I think. Without spoiling, Day 1: Opening, Day 2: Blockbuster not long before dawn and then everything up to the black box/calendar scene, Day 3: The shed, right up to washing dishes. The scene with the calendar, the night of Day 2, could be anywhere between June 1, 1995 00:00 and June 30, 1995 23:59. The middle of that is June 16, 1995 00:00, so the night of June 15, 1995. Therefore the best guess would be that Day 1 is June 14, 1995, Day 2 June 15, 1995, and Day 3 June 16, 1995. Epilogue's probably about 2 days later.

      However, we will need to check about the songs, and other pop culture references. If any of them were released say in late June, obviously the film should be after that.

      References that weren't songs: I remember True Lies (including the image of Arnold and Jamie, so they also exist in the MCU), Hook, and The Right Stuff being in Blockbuster. That's all fine. Someone mentions Brad Pitt as a sex symbol, and he became a sex symbol around Thelma & Louise in 1991 so that's also fine. As well as the Rock the Vote posters we saw in the image Brie posted back in November, which must just be a few years old, I think there might have been a poster up for a campaign for the 1996 election? Seems a bit early but it might have been a party representative campaign, or I just misread it. The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is mentioned, that's fine. The Fonz from Happy Days, that works fine.

      Songs: I've found a list, but the problem is, I can't remember which ones are played in-universe and which are just soundtrack.

      • Whatta Man by Salt-n-Pepa is in-universe in the cop's car. Released 1993.
      • Connection by Elastica, I remember noticing it in the film after it was in the special look, but can't remember when it is in the film. Released 1994 though, so fine.
      • Only Happy When It Rains by Garbage, I remember it being in the film but can't remember when. I hope it's out-of-universe, because it was released in September 1995, or if you take it as just being played off the album it was released on, that's still August 1995. But hey, if it's in-universe then it's not a big deal, it was just released a couple of months earlier in the MCU. It's not like Walk by Foo Fighters in Thor, where we have to actually believe it was released back before it was even recorded in the real world.
      • Waterfalls by TLC is played in Fury's car. Released May 1995, all fine.
      • Come as You Are by Nirvana is played in a scene I can't really describe without spoiling, but in-universe as an existing song. Released 1992 (also was used for The Defenders promotional stuff, which I thought of the moment it started playing).
      • Just a Girl by No Doubt, I don't remember its placement in the film. Released September 1995, and the album released October 1995. Could again be a bit problematic if it's in-universe. Seeing something online saying it is during the final fight, so shouldn't be in-universe.
      • Man on the Moon by R.E.M, I don't remember its placement in the film. Released 1992 though so not a problem.
      • Celebrity Skin by Hole it says online is just the credits, so it wouldn't be a problem that it's from 1998.
      • Crazy on You by Heart is apparently in a memory of Carol as a child, but I don't think it could have been in-universe since it's a go-kart race, can't see where music would be coming from. Regardless, it's from 1975 so that's reasonable. The music might also even be a hint of when the scene is supposed to take place. More on that later.
      • Kiss Me Deadly by Lita Ford is apparently in a memory of Carol and Maria before Carol's crash, and that works because it's from 1988.
      • You Gotta Be by Des'Ree, I don't remember its placement in the film, but it's from 1994 so that's fine.

      If anyone is seeing it again and could keep an ear out for the three songs in bold and if they're in-universe, that would be great.

      Considering the train line, which Mrmichaelt mentions we found out about when the first trailer came out, and that there might be some songs from a couple of months later than June 1995, it might be worth instead considering placing it June 29-July 1, 1995 (as late as possible), as that would mean it's as close as possible to fitting with the real world references (i.e. the assumption of being earlier in the MCU than real world is as small as possible) and also, since often songs play a bit before release on the radio, has a better chance of being close enough to those songs' release to work.

      Mrmichaelt wrote: If they're adhering to real life stuff, that train we've seen in the trailers and promos started operation in August 1995 I believe so that could preserved in the MCU.

      Yeah, I was slightly disappointed with the June calendar, knowing about the August train line going in.

      I also didn't get the chance to memorise which day of the week the calendar started on to check if it actually matches June 1995 with the days of the week. I hope it does, because there's sufficient evidence in the MCU to suggest that the days of the week match.

      Marvelus wrote: It is set after October 20th 1995, that is for sure

      Steve993 wrote: Actually before. Haven't seen the film but I read about spoilers anyway because curiosity and also I feel they're unavoidable anyway so I nowadays I for the most part go in knowing things although sometimes things aren't entirely spelled out so some stuff can surprise me depending what it is.

      That being said though what you're talking about to me sounded appropriate and will be to me one of the best nods in the film. It raises some meta questions though.

      Marvelus wrote: I haven't seen either, I saw an edit in the 1990s page referring to a movie released in 1995 (10/20) and J am basing my conclusion from that.

      Rman823 wrote: Really curious how a Mallrats reference is handled. Not only is Stan in the film as himself but there are mentions of Marvel and characters like Spider-Man, Hulk, X-Men, Green Goblin, etc. I guess we could assume that it's a slightly different version of the movie. 

      As you know, but for others who haven't seen the film, the line he is reading, while I don't remember what it was, doesn't specifically reference anything Marvel. As we discussed, it's not worth the headache to work out the full logic though😂.

      I think he might be credited as playing "Stan Lee" in the film (since GotGV2 they've still credited him as an individual character, not the Watcher Informant). I would say that the Watcher Informant at once point in his history assumed the role of a man called Stan Lee who created comic-books (just different characters/worlds to the ones Stan created in the real world), and they were popular comic-books (like Stan in the real-world), so in-universe Kevin Smith invited him to be in Mallrats for similar reasons to why he did in the real world, for the same role (just switch out character names and things for whatever the MCU equivalent is). This also works for why he looks older than real Stan Lee did in 1995.

      However, I would say that the Watcher Informant's "Stan Lee" persona is not as famous in the MCU as Stan Lee was in the real world, seeing as he doesn't get recognised in the present-day.

      Marvelus wrote: Kevin Feige said that it is a way to highlight his legacy in the Marvel Universe as a whole.

      Rman823 wrote: I read up a little and I think we can confirm the movie is before October 20th 1995. Without giving anything away, it seems the reference to it takes place when it was being filmed. Meaning it's most likely early 1995.

      Marvelus wrote: Oh... I am sorry you guys spoiled the movie for the Timeline xD. As I used to do in the past, however this year will be different. As I am not excited for any of the MCU films this year, looking forward, of course, but not dying to see it as I used to before. So in order to get a surprise, 0 excitement.

      However I have been told by my little brother some major leaks from tbe films :)

      I will never understand this, 0 excitement! How?! This is one of the most exciting years for the MCU! And it makes me sad that you've lost your excitement.

      But if it helps you enjoy things more, I guess that's good.

      Rman823 wrote: I haven’t really had much spoiled. Just the credit scenes and Stan’s cameo.

      Ah it's a shame you had the credits scenes spoiled, the surprise of that mid-credits scene was really exciting for me. One of my favourite MCU credits scenes.

      Steve993 wrote: Yeah I tried to dance around spoiling it but since you guys are mentioning it Stan's cameo has a reference to Mallrats. Like I said it makes sense timeline wise and is a cool nod but it also raises some meta questions. Is the Watcher Informant actually Stan Lee or is Stan Lee a real person who he auditions to play in the movie? Then there's all the references to Stan's career.

      As Rman823 and I discuss, the headache's not worth it😂, but see my explanation above for my take on it.

      Steve993 wrote: Like I said I haven't seen the film yet the plan is to see it tomorrow. And I guess it should wait until everyone has seen the film but should we start wondering how old some characters are and when their histories sort of came together? Ages of characters like Fury (Proper age not the non-canon one that was removed awhile ago), Carol, Maria, Talos, Ronan (I think Longevity should be added as a Kree ability. That sort of like Asgardians they age at a slower rate than humans hence why Carol doesn't look any different and neither does Ronan between this and the almost 20 year difference with Guardians) and whoever else is necessary. Then again we haven't thought much about Hank and Janet and their history so I guess it all depends on what's important.

      There's also a manner of certain character histories. In the tie-in comics which I don't think were ever meant to be canon anyway Fury had some backstory but I don't know how much it could still line up with this movie. There's backstory for Korath in one that's probably now non-canon completely because it makes it seem like he was raised with Gamora and Nebula when we know now he was a member of Starforce that Ronan probably recruited because he saw potential rather than Thanos sending him to work with Ronan.

      It'll probably be easier to talk about when I see the movie and everyone else does.

      I had a quick crack at an approximation for Kree ageing recently, but didn't want to bother doing it if it was going to turn out that Carol was affected by time dilation or used the Quantum Realm or whatever. It was also good I didn't because Jude Law got the time she'd been gone from Earth wrong.

      But last night, after watching, I did the proper maths. I was going to add it to the bottom of this message, but I can add it here since you've asked.

      OK, so Taryan is approximately Craig Parker's age during 2018 filming in human years in 2018, and his sons, Faulnak and Kasius are approximately Samuel Roukin and Dominic Rains' respective ages during 2017 filming in human years in 2091. We can use the average age of when men become fathers for the first time to approximate the ageing difference.

      Faulnak is the older brother. If Dominic Rains were older than Samuel Roukin, we'd have to do some maths to consider both ages, because Faulnak would have to be a bit older than Samuel Roukin in human years, and Kasius would have to be a bit younger than Dominic Rains in human years. But Dominic Rains is younger, so that's fine, we can throw him out.

      Season 6 filmed July 20, 2017-April 15, 2018.

      Craig Parker was born November 12, 1970. He appears in Episodes 20 and 21. The middle of filming for Episode 20 would be roughly 19.5/22 through Season 5 filming, and Episode 21 20.5/22 through, so overall the middle of his filming was about July 20, 2017 + 269 days * (20/22) = March 22, 2018. Craig Parker was about 17,297 days old.

      So, Taryan is about 17,297 human days old in his scenes, which are between March 22-23, 2018 and June 27-28, 2018, so roughly (use this for now) May 10, 2018.

      Samuel Roukin was born August 15, 1980. He appears in Episodes 6 and 7. The middle of filming for Episode 6 would be roughly 5.5/22 through Season 5 filming, and Episode 7 6.5/22 through, so overall the middle of his filming was about July 20, 2017 + 269 days * (6/22) = October 1, 2017. Samuel Roukin was about 13,561 days old.

      So, Faulnak is about 13,561 human days old in his scenes, which are on August 24, 2091.

      Set January 1, 1850 to be "1", January 2, 1850 to be "2", February 1, 1850 to be "32", etc..

      • [Taryan's date of birth] = [May 10, 2018] - 17,297 * [Kree age multiplier]
        = T = 61,491 - 17,297K
      • [Faulnak's date of birth] = [August 24, 2091] - 13,561 * [Kree age multiplier]
        = F = 88,260 - 13,561K

      The average age when a man becomes a father is 30.9, so about 11,286 days.

      • [Faulnak's date of birth] = [Taryan's date of birth] + 11,286 * K
        = F = T + 11,286K

      So:
      88,260 - 13,561K = T + 11,286K
      So 88,260 = T + 24,847K
      So 88,260 = (61,491 - 17,297K) + 24,847K
      = 88,260 = 61,491 - 17,297K + 24,847K
      So 26,769 = 7550K
      So 3.54556 = K.

      So assuming linear relation, Kree age 3.55 * slower than humans.

      This also means Taryan was born around 61,491 - 17,297 * 3.54556 = 163 = June 12, 1850, and Faulnak was born around 88,260 - 13,561 * 3.54556 = 40,179 = January 3, 1960.

      OK, so using that, we can approximate Carol's age. This is going to be more approximate because we don't know exactly to the day when Captain Marvel takes place, but also more importantly, when the majority of Avengers: Endgame takes place. For now, I'm just going to say exactly mid-1995 and exactly mid-2018, so let's just say 23.0 years apart. Since only approximating, I'm also just going to go with Brie's approximate age to the nearest half-month for now.

      Brie was about 28y7.5m (28.625) old during filming for Captain Marvel, 28y1m (28.08333) for Endgame (she filmed it first).

      So her weighted average age was [28.625 * (1 / 28.625) + 28.08333 * (1 / 28.08333)] / [(1 / 28.625) + (1 / 28.08333)] = (1 + 1) / (0.03493 + 0.03561) = 2 / 0.07054 = 28.35158. The weighted average date was [1995.5 * (1 / 28.625) + 2018.5 * (1 / 28.08333)] / [(1 / 28.625) + (1 / 28.08333)] = (1995.5 * 0.03493 + 2018.5 * 0.03561) / (0.03493 + 0.03561) = 141.58160 / 0.07054 = 2007.10985.

      So, Carol should be biologically about 28.35158 around 2007.10985. This would make her 28.35158 + (2018.5 - 2007.10985) / 3.54556 = 28.35158 + 11.39015 / 3.54556 = 31.6ish in human years in Endgame, 3.5 years older than Brie is. It would make her 28.35158 + (2018.5 - 2007.10985) / 3.54556 = 28.35158 - 11.60985 / 3.54556 = 25.1ish in human years in Captain Marvel, 3.5 years younger than Brie is.

      But most importantly, when Carol has her transfusion in mid-1989, she would be 28.35158 + (1989.5 - 2007.10985) / 3.54556 = 28.35158 - 17.60985 / 3.54556 = 23.4ish. She's human until that point, so she would have been born around 1989.5-23.4 = 1966.1ish, around February 1966.

      Mckenna Grace was about 11y11m old during filming, so her scenes would be around early 1978, although the song I mentioned is probably a hint that that scene takes place closer to 1975. Except according to the wiki she's credited as Carol aged 13, so maybe it's 1979. It also says London Fuller plays 6-year-old Carol, so around 1972.

      The other people you ask about. I'm not going to go through the exact maths right now but Lee Pace was about 39y2m (39.16667) old for Captain Marvel and 34y5m (34.41667) old for Guardians of the Galaxy, so let's assume he is 2 / [(1 / 39.16667) + (1 / 34.41667)] = 36.64 in human years around [1995.5 * (1 / 39.16667) + 2014.6 * (1 / 34.41667)] / [(1 / 39.16667) + (1 / 34.41667)] = 2005.67, so born around 2005.67 - 36.64 * 3.54556 = 1875.

      Maria, well, Lashana Lynch was about 30y6m old, so born around December 1964. Monica we know from an interview is 11, so born around December 1983 (depending on the maths taking into consideration the actress' age, which I'll do at some point), making her in her mid-30s in the present-day.

      Talos, don't know. Don't know how Skrulls age.

      Marvelus wrote: I haven't watched Captain Marvel yet, but I think it will introduce a mess in the continuity (not for the shows) but for a movie: Captain America: The Winter Soldier. (Continuity error)

      I don't think it's a spoiler since Samuel L. Jackson confirmed it a while ago to say that we see Fury lose his eye.

      There's two options here. One, it's before Captain Marvel and Fury was just bald and... I don't know... tired and stressed, looking older than he does in June 1995. Two, there's a scene at the end where they offer him a glass eye. We don't see him say like, "No, I'll take an eyepatch!", so maybe he tried a glass eye briefly. Although come to think of it, he still has his bad eye in The Winter Soldier, and I assume you can't just have your bad eye shoved back in after a while.

      Steve993 wrote: That's something I was thinking about too long before the film came out because they kept hinting the eye thing in this film.

      Well they didn't really hint, everyone just assumed because it's a prequel and they tend to show you all the significant moments from a character's past happening in one week in prequels. I was actually very pleased that the film didn't do that for Ronan or Coulson or much with Fury, the eye was the only thing really. There's a moment at the end, but it's not really a coincidence that it happened at the time of Captain Marvel though.

      Rman823 wrote: Saw Captain Marvel last night. The only thing really helping with the timeline is Fury mentioning 1989 as 6 years ago (which fits with the film being in 95) and a June calendar behind Fury in a scene. So the most likely placement for the majority of the movie is looking like June 1995. We know the film has to be sometime before the release of Mallrats on 10/20/1995 and this would work. 

      Marvelus wrote: Excellent, you are really great at spotting calendars and dates in the MCU products.

      I am seeing it tomorrow, do you remember in which scene is that calendar seen?

      BEJT wrote: Rman823, you beat me to it by a few minutes.

      Just got out of the film half an hour ago. Had a blast, nothing revolutionary story-wise, but had a really fun time.

      And yeah, it's June 1995. Despite the train line opening in August, but oh well, not a big deal.

      What's this about Mallrats? I haven't caught up on the chat (been avoiding in case of spoilers) yet, I'll scroll up and read and respond later but I didn't catch a Mallrats reference.

      It's not explicitly stated that Fury and Coulson just met, luckily. There's a scene where Fury refers to Coulson as "the new guy" but we can just take it that he's just been promoted or something, and he also says something implying they're just getting to know each other but there's easily wiggle room in there.

      Fury's date of birth is shown to be 1950 but I didn't catch the full date. There's a few dates on files and ID cards that I didn't really catch, I think Fury's ID maybe also said that it was issued in 1985. And he's been working a desk job for 6 years, and yeah, despite what Jude Law said, all the stuff in Carol's past was 6 years ago in 1989.

      The timeline seemed fairly sound to me all in all. Although I'd have to check that all the pop culture references line up.

      Should also say Marvelus, having discussed this - as I expected, the trailers didn't do Brie justice. She's great in the film. I really grew to like the character and am excited for her future.

      Also, there's a user claiming Fury's full date of birth shown is July 4, 1950 (I only had time to read the "1950" part, but I think the whole date is there). So he shares a birthday with Cap (and America...).

      BEJT wrote: Marvelus, just seen your message (I started typing right as Rman823 posted, so only updated once I'd posted).

      The calendar is fairly obviously shown in a few shots. You'll see it.

      Rman823 wrote: Don't want to get too specific, but it's during the scene where they're playing audio from Carol's black box. It's right behind Fury so isn't too hard to miss once you see it. 

      Rman823 wrote: I think you mean "isn't too hard to catch" or "is a bit hard to miss". I agree, it's not small or anything, it's fairly clear and obvious.

      During Stan's cameo, he is reading his script from Mallrats and apparently is playing himself. Since the movie came out in October of 95 we can assume that he was working on his cameo around June. The actual filming dates of Mallrats may not agree with this (not sure when his cameo was filmed IRL) but given in that movie he mentions Marvel, Spider-Man, Hulk, etc. we can assume the Mallrats of the MCU is slightly different. 

      BEJT wrote: Thanks, I looked it up on my way back. I've seen Stan's cameo in Mallrats before but I've never seen the film so was not familiar enough with it and didn't recognise the lines.

      It's a bit unclear if he's playing himself because obviously he looks significantly older than he did in 1995 (though I also thought they might have given him a bit of deageing sheen possibly? But still definitely older, and sans beard). I wouldn't think too hard about it, it's a guy who may or may not be playing Stan Lee reading the script for Mallrats presumably before the film's release. I'm not going to bend over backwards to work out the logic of a Stan Lee cameo joke that's clearly not meant to be taken too seriously.

      And yeah, Mallrats probably filmed earlier than June but it's firmly set in June 1995 and the Mallrats reference isn't really a contradiction so, yeah, I'm not too bothered about the minutia of it.


      Will catch up on messages soon.

      Rman823 wrote: Yeah, it's a cute meta joke but figuring out how it could work would be an unnecessary headache.  

      Indeed. But my rough sketch of an explanation is above.

      Not sure how accurate it'll end up being but thanks for trying to calculate the ages as best you could. I was never good at math so reading your calucations felt as complex to me as Mar-Vell's formula lol.

      I do wonder what Fury's service record really is? From the Army to possible CIA and then to SHIELD. Taking out the prequel comics for a moment that I again don't consider canon but some people disagree if he was born in 1950 (I tried catching the date when I saw him pull out the ID badge but couldn't get it and I was a glad someone caught it) then when would he have achieved the rank of Colonel roughly? Did he join the Vietnam War or would he have been too late? There's a bit more left to explore certainly before and after Captain Marvel and I hope a Disney Streaming Service Series does that.

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    • So I really enjoyed Captain Marvel! I'm glad it's doing so well despite this idea that "so many people" hate it or don't like what Brie Larson said. I won't get into that here, but it's good to see that the haters aren't affecting this movie's success very much. I really enjoyed the movie and thought Brie Larson did a great job. It's definitlely mostly June 1995 like you guys said, and we also have some stuff in 1989, as well as some more stuff in the 80s and possibly late 70s when Carol was a young girl, like on the go kart.

      I was a bit dissapointed there was no direct reference to Agents of SHIELD but I wasn't really expecting them to directly tie it in. I thought one of those agents in the beginning with Coulson could have easily been May, but Coulson just joined apparently in this movie and I don't know if May would have been a part of SHIELD yet. The inhibitor used on Vers is similar to the inhibitors used on Daisy in SHIELD season six, however. And Kree blood revived Brie just like it revived Coulson. Also someone said that the Kree writing in Mar'Vell's notebook does resemble the Kree writing that Coulson wrote on walls in Season 2.

      Does anything here contradict AoS? I remember someone mentioning that Coulson said he met Fury at some date, does this line up with that? It's also nice that Fury didn't become director by the end of the movie. That makes more sense realistically.

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    • Although Mallrats filmed in spring 1995 (imdb says March 6 to April 12, 1995) in Jersey, the simple solution is that Stan was on his way to LA reshoots. It'd make sense for some reshoots to happen in June if you want to stick to the calendar behind Fury in the Rambeau household. The problem is the train. But you could argue maybe it was a soft launch in June but the train officially started in August to hold onto the real life timeline. EDIT: One mistake I think is the Street Fighter arcade at Panchos. That version, Champion Edition, came out in 1992 and we know the crash was 1989.

      When Carol mentioned the Kree at the phone booth, that seems really likely that was already the Skrull and not Coulson. But yep when is said and done after the reports are filed, Coulson asks Fury if the Kree really was responsible for his eye and Fury does the 'I can't confirm nor deny' answer.

      I didn't see anything to contradict AOS thankfully. To answer CirUmeUela, In Agents of SHIELD, "Providence", Coulson reveals Fury recruited him just out of high school. Since we know Coulson's DOB, we know this to have been in May 1982. Then from that point, Coulson was at SHIELD Academy for x amount of years and Fury was Coulson and Garrett's CO. We assume that was the rest of the 80s because Garrett took the IED in 1988 (since in "Ragtag" he admits he's been chasing his goal for 25 years) so they likely became field agents in the late 80s. From "The Bridge" in season 1, we already knew Coulson was a field agent in the 90s from Agent Shane's file. That checks.

      AOS continuity is fine, it's the Bogota incident in Winter Soldier that's more of a question. Since in that one, Pierce says Fury was Deputy Chief at the time but now I don't know now if he specially said which acronym that was, for the CIA or for SHIELD. Heck, you could even speculate that Pierce saw him as a pawn and poached him to SHIELD and he started out in the 80s and ended up assigned to threat assessment in 1995.

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    • Do we know for sure if the Bogota incident was before or after Captain Marvel? This image shows him with both eyes, but maybe he went through a phase of trying the false eyes that Coulson gave him at the end of the movie. Although it probably makes more sense for it to be before Captain Marvel. But then again, didn't Pierce promote Fury to Director of SHIELD after the Bogota incident? That would make it after Captain Marvel.

      Something else I forgot to mention from the Thanos novel is that it goes into the two methods of space travel that we see in the MCU. It mentions that jump gates are the more common way to travel but that lightspeed engines are another form of travel. This is less common because it is expensive and takes more time. It was also cool seeing the same jump gates in Captain Marvel.

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    • Yeah. It is just a continuity mistake that has to be overlooked. It is not a "8 years later" thing, but it is due to Marvel not planning back in 2008 that Fury would lose his eye in 1995.

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    • CirUmeUela wrote:
      Do we know for sure if the Bogota incident was before or after Captain Marvel? This image shows him with both eyes, but maybe he went through a phase of trying the false eyes that Coulson gave him at the end of the movie. Although it probably makes more sense for it to be before Captain Marvel. But then again, didn't Pierce promote Fury to Director of SHIELD after the Bogota incident? That would make it after Captain Marvel.

      Something else I forgot to mention from the Thanos novel is that it goes into the two methods of space travel that we see in the MCU. It mentions that jump gates are the more common way to travel but that lightspeed engines are another form of travel. This is less common because it is expensive and takes more time. It was also cool seeing the same jump gates in Captain Marvel.

      Fury still has his bad eye in the present. Once you put in a glass eye, at least to my understanding, you scoop out the flesh one that was already there.

      As for jump gates, they were introduced in Guardians 2, if not Guardians 1. So we definitely would've seen them in this movie.

      As for lightspeed engines, Mar-Vell's was supposed to be the first, thus why the Kree AND the Skrulls were fighting so viciously over it. So the Thanos novel (which is already non-canon) might have an inconsistency there if they're widespread and already exist.

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    • With some wiggle room, it can still take place before 1995. Pierce didn't say he promoted Fury to Director, he said "That photo was taken five years after Nick and I met, when I was at State Department in Bogota. E.L.N. rebels took the embassy, and security got me out, but the rebels took hostages. Nick was Deputy Chief of the S.H.I.E.L.D. station there, and he comes to me with a plan. He wants to storm the building through the sewers. I said, "No, we'll negotiate." Turned out, the E.L.N. didn't negotiate, so they put out a kill order. They stormed the basement, and what do they find? They find it empty. Nick had ignored my direct order, and carried out an unauthorized military operation on foreign soil, and saved the lives of a dozen political officers, including my daughter." Then Cap asks if he gave him a promotion. Basically, you take away that overall he was still an agent but at that Bogota station he was deputy chief. Then for the promotion, he was reassigned and seems to wherever like the LA Field Office doing threat assessment. As for the photo, yeah, just write off as he was bald before 1995 and the photo added 20 years.

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    • I still think is a continuity error.

      Change my mind 😂😂

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    • I think I said my fill already since January 28. lol.

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    • Marvelus wrote: I still think is a continuity error.

      Change my mind 😂😂

      Yeah it's a mistake but it's also a photo and not a flashback. It can be ignored if you wish and just imagine he's wearing an eye patch. Fury could also be wearing one of the prosthetic eyes Coulson brings to him. I personally wouldn't mind if they photoshoped eye patch on that image and released it on Blu-Ray (like Star Wars Special Editions) or social media, but it doesn't really break the timeline for me.

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    • Mrmichaelt wrote: With some wiggle room, it can still take place before 1995. Pierce didn't say he promoted Fury to Director, he said "That photo was taken five years after Nick and I met, when I was at State Department in Bogota. E.L.N. rebels took the embassy, and security got me out, but the rebels took hostages. Nick was Deputy Chief of the S.H.I.E.L.D. station there, and he comes to me with a plan. He wants to storm the building through the sewers. I said, "No, we'll negotiate." Turned out, the E.L.N. didn't negotiate, so they put out a kill order. They stormed the basement, and what do they find? They find it empty. Nick had ignored my direct order, and carried out an unauthorized military operation on foreign soil, and saved the lives of a dozen political officers, including my daughter." Then Cap asks if he gave him a promotion. Basically, you take away that overall he was still an agent but at that Bogota station he was deputy chief. Then for the promotion, he was reassigned and seems to wherever like the LA Field Office doing threat assessment. As for the photo, yeah, just write off as he was bald before 1995 and the photo added 20 years.

      Bogota is definitely set after Captain Marvel, maybe 1996-97.

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    • Not sure if this has been brought up but I'm rewatching Cloak & Dagger in preparation for Season 2 and noticed that in episode 1 Tyrone has an advertisement for a Free Comic Book Day on his mirror for Saturday, May 6th, 2017 (which matches the real-world date). So, we have even more confirmation that Season 1 is in 2017. Plus with it being February he could easily have an advertisement for an event that would be a few months away. 

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    • Assassin1and2 wrote: Yeah it's a mistake but it's also a photo and not a flashback. It can be ignored if you wish and just imagine he's wearing an eye patch. Fury could also be wearing one of the prosthetic eyes Coulson brings to him. I personally wouldn't mind if they photoshoped eye patch on that image and released it on Blu-Ray (like Star Wars Special Editions) or social media, but it doesn't really break the timeline for me.

      True. It could be a false eye. I mean, by the time of the events of The Winter Soldier, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that when Fury devised the retinal scan failsafe - he at some point secretly had the false eye removed and his damaged eye put back in then adopted the eye patch.
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    • Will respond probably tomorrow but Feige finally got a piece of timeline info spot on, not accidentally thinking of the beginning of Endgame as 2019, but rather 2018.

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    • Thank God. Hopefully he also realizes t