Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26838855-20190803131136/@comment-112155-20190811024329

Shabook wrote: BEJT wrote: They are, by definition, alternate universes.
 * The MCU has not yet established entirely parallel universes, only universes created from splits in the timeline.

BEJT wrote: That brings you to a different point in time in a parallel universe, just like the time machine in endgame.
 * The White Monolith is purely a "time" Monolith, so would purely shift you in time, it's not a "time and parallel universe" Monolith.

BEJT wrote: That means that the future of the current universe was going as apocalyptic as the one in an alternate universe, until it was changed, and she saw the change.
 * Robin sees the future, not the future of an alternate universe.

BEJT wrote: The future of the current universe was going to be as apocalyptic as in the alternate universe, unless prevented and changed.
 * Enoch is trying to change the future. There's no need if that's not the future.

BEJT wrote: The events of Rewind are exactly the same for every universe caught in the so-called loop, as Leo Fitz gets frozen in every one of them.
 * The "74 years later" of Rewind is "74 years later", not "74 years later, in another universe".

BEJT wrote: The backstory of Leo Fitz is the same for every universe Doppelganger of him up until the events of The End. That means that both the 199999 currently alive Fitz, and the alternate currently deceased Fitz lived through the exact same events in their respective universes
 * The intention of Rewind is clearly that the Fitz you see at the end is the same character you've been following for the whole episode, as well as things like him then joining the rest of the team and showing them the weapons he hid in the wall. It's clearly meant to be him that put them there, not some other Fitz. This theory involves an added assumption that the show suddenly changes focus to a different Fitz during Rewind.

BEJT wrote: That means that not every universe is destined to live through the same outcome despite countless others did. Just like the alternate universes seen by Doctor Strange in Infinity War.
 * In The End, Simmons talks about how happy she is that it turns out time can be changed and is fluid (albeit through splintering the timeline). This theory involves no changing of time.

BEJT wrote: Not every viewer is going to use their time to write essays about a TV series. The phrase "time loop" is easier to apply and understand by characters without scientific knowledge. Every iteration of Yo-yo perceived it as a loop, as she saw "her past self" in the Lighthouse. She came from an alternate universe where their lives had been identical up until that point.
 * It is established as a time loop, not just "something that has occurred identically in a lot of alternate universes", which isn't a loop but more of a zig-zag: lots of straight parallel lines, with a diagonal jump across between each one, being the Fitz that travels across each time.

BEJT wrote: If one of them dies early and they're in a different universe to the one with the dystopian future, then that means that the outcome is going to be different. Whether that means that Earth will be destroyed or not, is unknown. Therefore, this point proves nothing in either case. A universe where May, Fitz, Simmons or Yo-Yo died earlier simply means that is going to be different than the one seen in The Last Day.
 * The team are obsessed with breaking the loop, and say that they know if one of them dies early who isn't supposed to, that will be proof that they have broken the loop. If one of them dies early and they're in a different universe to the one with the dystopian future, then that's not evidence of anything. That just means that unfortunately, in this universe, that character has died earlier than in most. They could still be on course for the end of the world. The importance of the idea of one of them dying is it means time has been changed (split), so they are no longer bound by predestination to not save the world.

BEJT wrote: Again, this proves nothing at all. That Simmons is unaware of it doesn't mean it's not true.
 * Simmons says in Season 6 that they're not entirely sure how they changed time (again, changed time), implying it is not a scientific reason such as parallel universes.

BEJT wrote: Again, this proves nothing at all. Fitz, Simmons an Yo-yo don't die in Earth-199999, just like they didn't in other universes. Most characters have gone through various death-defying incidents and survive, whether they were involved in loops or just because the actors had a contract.
 * Simmons, Fitz, and Yo-Yo go through various death-defying incidents and survive because the time loop is already established that they survive into the future, they can't die because they don't die. They don't die until their timeline's future, so they can't die until their timeline's future.

BEJT wrote: The future of the current universe was going to be as apocalyptic as in the alternate universe, unless prevented and changed. And that changed happened there, in this universe, unlike the countless others.
 * The timeline only splits in The End, as Robin declares that she feels the change in time, and everything is trapped in the time loop until that point, playing out identically to how it always did no matter how hard they try.

BEJT wrote: The future of the current universe was going to be as apocalyptic as in the alternate universe, unless prevented and changed. The agents were unaware of the details of the universe, and therefore played them out coincidentally just like they did in other universe. After all, it's pretty easy to realize that a person would make similar decissions in similar contexts if they are unaware of the actual outcome.
 * At numerous times, the agents try desperately for things to be even slightly different. They don't manage because that's the way time is. In this theory, they are not in any way bound by predestination.

BEJT wrote: That's exactly what happened, alternate versions of Yo-Yo trying to say something different, only to end up saying the same. Essentially, every alternate Yo-Yo caught in the loop has lived through the same, has the same personality, and ends up saying the same words.
 * In Past Life, future Yo-Yo tries desperately to say something different to what she heard herself say when she was younger. She then explains that everything she is saying is exactly what she heard herself say, and that even in saying that she is saying what she always said, in a frustrating, unavoidable predestination. If this is Earth-TRN676 2091 Yo-Yo speaking to Earth-199999 2017 Yo-Yo, by this theory, Earth-TRN676 Yo-Yo when she was her younger, 2091 self, would have spoken to Earth-TRN679 Yo-Yo - another universe's Yo-Yo. So there would be absolutely no reason why, no matter how hard she tries, she is caught in a frustrating, unavoidable predestination of the conversation to be identical to what she always heard.

BEJT wrote: And where exactly says that the Monolith needs to return you to the point where it took you? Just like the exit point for the Black Monolith moved in space as both Maveth and Earth moved, the exit point for the White Monolith moved in time as time passed in both universes. Again, another point that proves nothing.
 * If the White Monolith were to transport you to another universe, why would they end up back in their old one when they go from 2091 to 2017? It's not like they're just switching it backwards, because they don't go back to when they came from, they go back to 7 months after they left (that's not just a thing from timeline theories, it's absolute fact that it's over 6 months later because the Quinjet has been left where Fitz and Hunter parked it in Rewind, over 6 months after the agents left). Plus they don't have the Monolith that sent them there to work with and just reverse it, they're rebuilding the future version of that Monolith.

BEJT wrote: "Having no need" is the worst argument you may use, and the main one I dismantled with the explanation above. There are three Fitzes from three different universes actually seen in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., each and every one of them displaced to the past of an alternate universe, where they lived a life until their death. The only one who has not been displaced is the one native to Earth-199999 who was frozen like the rest, but didn't get to become Boshtok the Marauder.
 * There is no need for three universes to have three versions of Fitz, as explained above, because there were two simultaneous Fitzes of different ages (a 30-year-old Fitz and a 104-year-old Fitz who was once the 30-year-old Fitz) around in 2018 when the timeline was split, therefore giving you two Fitzes in the new timeline, a 104-year-old who dies and a 30-year-old out in space no longer destined to become that 104-year-old. That's what happens in The End, essentially, "We lost our Fitz, but at least we have an old backup out there." And then they have to catch him up on what's happened since.