Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26838855-20190803131136/@comment-26838855-20190808111838

Jessica Jones: Season 3 (Nox23)
Nox23 wrote: Hey guys!! Do season JJS3's dates have a page on the wiki? I was trying to wrap my head around when the different events in 302 happen We've been struggling with the decision. With Episode 2's flashback events, these are the rough dates, depending on whether the season is set in April-May or November-December.

Gemma Chan (Aricco)
Aricco wrote: The casting news about Gemma Chan getting a new role in Eternals, separate to her role in Captain Marvel should negate the frame of mind that Luke Cage & the TV shows are non-canon due to an actor playing more than one character. I know we have had actors play multiple roles in movies, which then frequently gets retconned to be the same character or a relative, but having an actor play unrelated named characters in 2 movies in less than 2 years shows that it isn't a basis to decanonise something. Unless of course the headlines now claim Captain Marvel is non-canon... It's definitely odd, because convention is that if an actor has already played a fairly sizeable role, they shouldn't play another unrelated character, and that's why the Cottonmouth/Blade comments came up. It could potentially be a CG character, but I doubt it.

Anyway she's good and it doesn't bother me (Mahershala wouldn't bother me if Feige just acknowledged it, because the reason it bothers me is the implication that it feels like an ignoring of the shows), especially since she was blue in Captain Marvel. And I'm glad that this does indeed serve as a counter-argument over the Netflix stuff.

Russos' AMA (MrRLopez, Marvelus, ProBot1227, Edward Zachary Sunrose, CirUmeUela, DaenerysTheMadKhal58)
MrRLopez wrote: The Russo Brothers are going to do an AMA on Reddit on Wednesday and a Twitter Live on Thursday Marvelus wrote: Lets ask again on Netflix canonicity? :p They don't really have the authority to answer that question. They're not Marvel overseers. And I kind of don't want people to keep asking that question because it perpetuates the idea that it's even in question and puts it at risk of a bad reply that casts more doubt.

ProBot1227 wrote: Like last time where we got nothing? Maybe the Russos are a little more cooperate than Fiege, who has stated the shows are canon, sometimes indirectly, but was dead silent last time on Reddit.

Well, we can try! Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Meh, I'm betting most people will ask that, or ask them about Cap again. I'd rather ask them about more stuff that was left on the cutting room floor. I definitely do not need them to talk about Cap again.

CirUmeUela wrote: Well the Russos have seen more comfortable with talking about the TV shows so maybe they would answer a question like that. Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Russos are sticking to the alternate timeline theory (thank god). Steve did not return to that moment on the bench, that's why he doesn't have the Quantum Suit on.

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/cn9lbx/were_joe_and_anthony_russo_directors_of_marvel/ew9238h/?context=3

A long standing theory is that Old Man Cap left his new timeline in 2016 when Peggy dies (assuming she still dies in 2016) and waited 7 years in the MCU. I don't buy that. I think, going by what the Russos said, Steve jumped to the main timeline sometime during the final battle or its aftermath, and waited until Young Steve left.

So that would make both official explanations right; Cap lived his life in an alternate timeline, but he returned to the main timeline when his younger self left, creating a loop for Cap's internal chronology. Guh, but they did, of course.

I don't understand the "thank god" here. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree at this point because honestly I just can't personally see how people stand by the Russo explanation based on the film alone.

I would be OK with the explanation that Steve was in an alternate timeline (I mean I still definitely prefer the extra weight and narrative closure that the Markus and McFeely explanation gives) if they just actually explained it in relation to building on what's said in the film and finding a fudged way to make it work. What really annoys me is that they insist the basis for their explanation is in the film, which it very much isn't. I'm yet to see them actually address the Ancient One's line about Infinity Stones, how Steve could return the stones if going back in time creates alternate timelines every time, or how Steve could come back to the main timeline at any point other than just after he left.

Anyway, addressing this comment, I personally never had a problem with him not wearing the Quantum Realm suit. They pack up into a tiny space instantaneously anyway. It's the fact that he doesn't come back through the Quantum Tunnel there and then, which is all we've been shown to be possible through the film.

The user asking the question is frustrating as well. "Banner said that when you go back in time you make a seperate [sic] time line". No, no he didn't. I don't understand how so many fans are so interested in this yet haven't actually taken the time to pay attention to the Banner quote, nor the Ancient One quote since it honestly sometimes feels like people are deaf to the words "Infinity Stone" in that scene.

This at least puts paid to the argument of "Cap can't have been in this timeline all along since he definitely only just appeared on the bench in that moment". No, by either explanation, Steve was already there.

It also puts paid to the theory that Steve could in some way use the GPS, like the jump to 1970, to just arrive not in the Quantum Tunnel, which I've been saying doesn't work.

There's no way Steve came back to the main timeline's 2016, since there were no Quantum Tunnels around until 2018, and there's no precedent for coming out of anything other than the Quantum Tunnel you left from anyway, which wasn't created until 2023. If he lived in an alternate timeline, he could have left that timeline after Peggy died in 2016, but he wouldn't have jumped over to the MCU ' s 2016. You don't jump laterally across timelines, you hit the return button to come back out where you left, at the programmed time (usually, and in this instance as well, a few seconds after you left). And that's why I have a problem with the idea that Steve came out at some other time.

Also, they're somehow suggesting that that new Quantum Tunnel, which has almost certainly only just been finished, was left unattended at some point between its creation and Steve's trip back, and Steve knew it was unattended at that point, and then when he was old in his alternate timeline he somehow managed to come back a few hours early during that time he knew it was unattended and just sneak out... OK...

To your suggestion, Steve coming out during the battle, I don't see that happening. Again, there's no precedent for coming out of a different Quantum Tunnel than the one you left in, and both tunnels get destroyed within about a 20-minute span of time, plus are attended to for most of that time. And old Steve coming out of the Tunnel during that battle and hobbling away seems unlikely to me.

It doesn't in any way make the Markus and McFeely explanation right, unfortunately. This explanation doesn't change anything from before - Steve returned to 2023 from his alternate timeline, the method doesn't make a difference to how it fits with the Markus and McFeely explanation. Their view isn't focused on the idea of a loop, it's specifically the idea that there's no reason Steve would create an alternate timeline and that therefore he has specifically lived through the events of the MCU in the background. The two views aren't compatible in some compromise and this is just purely the Russo view.

DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: The Quantum Tunnel was destroyed when Thanos passed through it, and so was Luis' van during the battle. The new platform had probably just been made when Cap left, I don't think it's possible for Old Steve to have come back without anyone noticing.

And I don't see how that would make the M&M explanation right. Theirs doesn't involve Cap using the Quantum Tunnel again to come back.

I think we'll just have to deal with the fact that the movie was written one way (M&M) and was filmed and acted using that explanation, but moving forward Marvel will use the Russos' explanation (which likely came about because of Marvel's future plans for the franchise). I don't think it should be possible for him to have come back without anyone noticing either, nor is there a point in the film where they establish that someone can choose to return not at the programmed time. But hey, the Russos seem intent on making this much more confusing than the film laid out.

Yeah, it doesn't fit with the Russo explanation.

And yes, that's what I've been saying too. The film was written the Markus and McFeely way (of course, they wrote it), but the Russo explanation will likely unfortunately somehow be made canon through a lot of fudging, hand-waving, and exploiting grey areas. Although, I did think that because I thought they were more tuned in to what's happening next at Marvel, but they also, like the writers, recently made a comment about how they don't know what's happening next at Marvel and this is just their opinion. So maybe not.

I'm scared Marvel will still use the Russo explanation just because it seems more people believe that than the writers' (while some of them, like Edward Zachary Sunrose, have a full understanding and still feel that way, I personally feel frustrated because I think a large portion of these people have only paid semi-attention to the film and also don't understand the "narrative protection" science of a time loop so have a problem with Steve not stopping bad events), even though the writers' explanation is what the film says.

Feige, it's in your hands.