Thread:Marvelous 345678/@comment-27496405-20180723185324/@comment-26838855-20181223052154

Principia (Mrmichaelt, Marvelus)
Mrmichaelt wrote: You're welcome, but it'd be cooler if others weighed in. I can't be the only one that bought the set. I wish they used the same monitor in "The Honeymoon" for Deke's operation because they used the awesome clear shot but it was a different screen with vitals and no dates. Argh! But I'm definitely thinking Principia was still December no time skip until between Principia and Devil Complex. I usually buy the DVDs but like a year or so later when they're cheaper, and I'm not a Blu-Ray person so they're not necessarily super HD. But yeah I don't have Season 5 yet, sorry.

Marvelus wrote: Hey, I will soon answer to all of your comments, rewatching Season 5: Principia, there is a hint that we are in 2018 and not 2017, Quake says that all people involved in Cibertek has been killed in the last two years, wouldn't that match with the fact that since Gral. Hale became the leader of HYDRA she started working with the Gravitonium and since 2016, including 2017, she has ordered to kill all those men within Cibertek.

That is a confirmation that we are on 2018. I don't know if you thought of it. Mrmichaelt wrote: When did they say Hale ordered the deaths of the Cybertek scientists? I thought they meant Candy Man was faking their deaths on paper not that someone was actually killing them. I seem to recall later on either AOS or a Netflix show had a headline about the Cybertek trial, implying they weren't given new identities until way after AOS Season 1. So it still could have been 2015 for instance when Candy Man started altering their papers, and 2 years later could still be December 2017. From memory, I thought it was that Tony was faking their deaths, yeah. I don't remember it having a link with Hale being a top Hydra leader, which yeah, she was kind of promoted in April 2016, but that might be there and I just didn't read into it at the time. At the time I just took the 2 years as a sort of arbitrary number that could have been 1, 2, 3, or even almost 4, just some random point between Season 1 and now. I'll try to rewatch Principia soon.

Also yeah, that was Daredevil (and the New York Bulletin website).

Marvelus wrote: Not really bro, it is heavily implied that Hale was involved with all the thing involving the Principia's case, unless I got something wrong. Fairly sure she wasn't killing them but you might be right that her campaign was linked with them having to hide the Cybertek people and therefore that the "2 years" isn't insignificant. It's been a long time since I watched the episode, again, I'll try to rewatch.

Mrmichaelt wrote: Hmm. Interesting. I thought Hale's crew simply found Principia first on their own, took the Gravitonium, and left some mechs. I didn't connect her role to anything further like with the Cybertek scientists. Worth a rewatch for me with what you say in mind. Same for me, I didn't make a connection but will rewatch with this in mind.

Marvelus wrote: As I said man, I may have misunderstood it, but if I haven't I think they are still connected. Because I don't see how all the Cybertek scientist being claimed as deceased it is not a part of HYDRA, even more when Mack and Caine interrogate the other guy, he claimed that he did sign (for HYDRA) because they threatened his family. If I am right, we are on 2018. I thought, from memory, that they spoke to the guy and were angry that he worked for Hydra (because he worked for Cybertek) but laid off him because he was working under duress and not because he's actually like a Nazi - the Hydra connection just being back to 2014, not the Hale stuff. And I thought Tony had been faking their deaths as a S.H.I.E.L.D. thing in the last couple of years to protect them. But it might have something to do with Hale.

Ant-Man and the Wasp (Mrmichaelt)
Mrmichaelt wrote: I'm definitely thinking Principia was still December no time skip until between Principia and Devil Complex then a couple days between All Roads Lead and Option 2, Infinity War opens before Option 2 and runs parallel up to The End mostly then the Snap, the teaser, the Ant-Man and Wasp teaser. I'm still on the fence about Ant-Man and Wasp being on March 18 or 25 but I guess the former to allow more time between the ending and the teaser based on interviews like the EMPIRE ones. We were minimising the time between Ant-Man and the Wasp and Avengers: Infinity War (i.e. the time between the main events of Ant-Man and the Wasp and its credits scenes). Since the problem is that Ant-Man and the Wasp pushes Avengers: Infinity War and the related Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episodes too late, the least we could do was minimise the gap so that Avengers: Infinity War could be as early as possible. And the smallest gap we could go for was 1 week, because Scott is freed on a Wednesday, then you have at least a few days of that end montage and it has to include the weekend because Scott sees Cassie again and he said at the beginning of the film that he'd be seeing her again next weekend, and then after all of that is the credits scenes, which are on a Thursday. So it's been at least one weekend since, meaning it's at least 8 days since Scott was freed. And we went with 8 to keep it minimal.

Also, the placement of Ant-Man and the Wasp wasn't "18th or 25th", it was "If Ant-Man and the Wasp is March it pretty much has to be the 18th" (working based on him being released on the 21st making sense for when the sentence began + 21 months, we explain it in the 2018 references) and then placing Infinity War as close as possible to that. Infinity War was the one where the week it takes place after Ant-Man and the Wasp is flexible, but Ant-Man and the Wasp has specific things placing it on given dates.

Mrmichaelt wrote: That's true. Was he extradited to California then sentenced or was he sentenced in Germany then extradited. I figured Steve dropped everyone off where they wanted to go and thus, Scott cut the deal once Steve dropped him off in California. Hmm. "Well, your daddy went to Germany and drew on the walls with Captain America. And that was a violation of Article 16, Paragraph 3 of the Sokovia Accords. Now, as a part of his joint plea deal with Homeland Security and the German government, he was allowed to return to the U.S., provided he serve 2 years under house arrest followed by 3 years of probation, and avoid any unauthorised activities, technology, or contact with any former associates who were, or currently are, in violation of said Accords, or any related statutes."

The "he was allowed to return to the U.S." suggests to me that the deal was made while in Europe after the escape from the Raft. Although that's a bit tricky considering Avengers: Infinity War Prelude suggests they went straight back to the U.S.. But maybe it was a matter of phone calls and agreeing he would hand himself over in San Francisco.

Runaways: Season 2 (Mrmichaelt, Marvelus)
Mrmichaelt wrote: Good point. Mrmichaelt wrote: Yeah, with the open house, Chase being on the lacrosse team (which is February to May for high school), the dance, etc. - but at least they don't have to deal with a school schedule in season 2. Yeah, that's a relief. That school schedule didn't really make sense.

BEJT wrote: Will reply soon but just to say, I've started Runaways: Season 2 and I think we're reasonably safe over the worry of Christmas and it being 24 hours later.

Episode 1 begins with the parents thinking that their children have been found by the police, and Catherine says they were found just 24 hours after the news went out that made them fugitives. The news went out on the morning of the 24th (it's not just implied to be morning, the flights they look at are 8:22AM, 8:27AM, 8:40AM, 9:12AM, 9:15AM, 9:26AM so there's flights on average every 16 or so minutes, meaning it's likely about 8:14AM), which would suggest this opening scene is around 8AM on the 25th. However, it's evening. It's most likely not just 12 hours later but rather the next day - either Catherine is just using "24 hours" to mean "1 day" and it's a bit more than 24 hours later, or because she's technically referring to when these children were found so you can just say that they were found just over 24 hours later, and it's now just a few hours after that. Either way, it's the next day, the 25th. The only other option is it's pre-sunrise the next day, a bit less than 24 hours later, but I'll go into why it shouldn't be.

The explanation that because she's technically referring to when these kids were found, those kids were found Christmas morning/midday-ish, and it's now Christmas evening as they're taken to see the children, works well. It also helps that it's late December so it's around the earliest sunsets of the year, with Los Angeles sunset on December 25, 2017 being 16:50. So let's say that opening scene is around 17:00 on Christmas Day, a few hours after these children were found, which was a bit over 24 hours after the news went out.

Then, when we see the Runaways, it's morning again, making it the 26th - unless that opening scene was just like 6:30AM on the 25th and this is only a few hours later. But a bit later in the episode they say they've been on the run for about 48 hours, so yeah, it's the 26th, and that opening scene works fine as the evening of the 25th. So there's just the one scene really that's set on Christmas Day, and it's Boxing Day when the events properly continue. Still a bit weird that no one references Christmas but not as weird as if it were actual Christmas Day for any main events. So that worry has turned out OK. Marvelus wrote: Great! I don't know where to watch the season. I am dying it is one of my favorite shows of the MCU, and I want to watch properly Cloak and Dagger and enjoy it, end Season 5 finally and relax Since I don't think Hulu is available outside the U.S., I have to use "other means". I don't like doing it, but logistically I just have to keep up with this stuff and not wait like 6 months for it to come to the U.K..

Mrmichaelt wrote: Off to a good start then. Was there any Christmas decorations around? Oh, no. Like I say, I really don't think they're paying attention to the exact dates this is supposed to be. I was just saying how, luckily, it seems that the way it has played out, we can skim over Christmas Day - lucky because if like a whole episode were set on Christmas Day and not once did someone at all reference it, it would be a bit weird.

I've watched Episodes 1-4 and rewatched Episodes 1 and 2. Despite the fact that this is also a whole-13-episode-season-dropped-at-once case, I'm not going to do the notes system I have started doing in the last year-and-a-bit with the Netflix seasons. I do it like that with the Netflix seasons because we have no prior start point and need to work out how it works as a block/a few blocks and where the whole chunk sits in the timeline and how it all works together, but this is different as it's just a simply linear continuation of a TV show with a starting point we already have. Plus, I'm really tired and need a break from that level of work, especially as I work on all the write-ups/checks. I'll probably just do one message where I do a brief "Episode 1 beginning to Minute 3ish, Episode 1 Minute 3ish to Minute 40ish" etc., which I'm just kind of working out as I go on my rewatches as I look uot for any potential gaps where days could be slipped in if necessary.

Anyway, some other brief notes from the season so far.
 * It's only been a few days to maybe a week-and-a-bit as of Episode 4. They mention in Episode 4 that they think it's Thursday. I think it's been more than 2 days since December 26th, which would mean it can't be Thursday 28th but would have to be Thursday, January 4, 2018. I don't know if that works, if there's somewhere a gap can be slipped in (that would be helpful because then that would also mean we can skip over the second obstacle: New Year, and that not being referenced despite being a big deal). Even if you were to assume the dates don't match the days like in the real world (which there's sufficient evidence to suggest they do in the MCU), just looking at Runaways on its own, this still has to be 6 or 13 days after the Doomsday holiday ball, because that was "Fri".
 * In Episode 4, they visit the school and it's term time. This is difficult. We've already had to assume that their term went on a week longer than most L.A. schools, and even if it were now Thursday, January 4, 2018, that's still earlier than most L.A. schools went back. I'll have a look at how the day-by-day breakdown of the first 4 episodes go and then have a look. It doesn't really work to move any of Season 1 back a week or two, because it's shown that Episodes 1 and 2 take place on "Friday 8th" on Leslie's calendar and it's said to have been "weeks"/a "couple weeks" since the first episode in the last two episodes and it's the Christmas (well, they say something like "Non-specific seasonal holiday") ball in Doomsday. Plus the opening 2 episodes are just over 2 years since Amy's death (cannot be less as the PlayStation screen says "2 years ago" and that rounds down), which was at least a week or two after the November 17, 2015 Star Wars Battlefront release.
 * I think, like I suspected, they've done a classic "This one's straight after the last one but that one was set in present day when it came out and this one is set in present day when it comes out". I think the prop department think this is set in late 2018. But luckily, there's nothing explicitly saying that. The only reason I suspect this is, in Episode 3, a fake passport of Alex's is shown to say "August Bradner" (his alias) was born on "21 AUG 2002". His fake passport would presumably give a date of birth within a few months of Alex's actual date of birth, to make it believable, and since Alex is 16 (as I'll get into), that would imply that if he were born no earlier than say March 2002, this should be at least 2018. I imagine the prop department went "Alex is 16 and it's late 2018, so born 2002". The fortunate thing here is that the date of birth is indeed fake, so we can just assume that for whatever reason, the characters thought Alex was young-looking and could easily pass for 15.
 * Alex, Nico, Chase, Karolina, and Gert's ages are finally (somewhat) cleared up. In Episode 2, Robert says Nico is "16", and in Episode 3, Darius says Alex is "16". So they are juniors and not seniors, which was what Season 1 suggested. And in Episode 3 and 4, you see the missing posters a few times and can see that everyone is listed as "16", except Molly who is listed as "14". So, we have in-show confirmation now, although it's not ideal:
 * Season 1, Episode 1: Chase saying in December 2017 that he'll be leaving for college in a year implies he's referring to starting college in October 2018, meaning they're seniors in December 2017, so born September 2, 1999-September 1, 2000.
 * Strongly implies they're all born September 2, 1999-September 1, 2000.
 * Season 1, Episode 2 (I think): Geoffrey says that "17" is now the same age as their children, suggesting that the 5 older ones are now about 17. Considering they're in the same school year, this would mean that either they are juniors and the majority of them (to satisfy Geoffrey's generalisation) had their 17th birthdays in the first 3 months of the academic year (September 2nd-December 8th), or they are seniors and the majority of them have their 18th birthdays in the remaining 9 months of the academic year (December 9th-September 1st). Naturally, it's more likely for a majority of a group to have birthdays in a 9-month window than a 3-month window. There is, however, the possibility that he's just saying they're roughly the same age.
 * Implies the majority were born December 9, 1999-September 1, 2000, if not, implies the majority were born September 2, 2000-December 8, 2000. Some leniency.
 * Season 1, Episode 7 (I think): First, Molly is 14. This was stated by Allegra Acosta in an interview on the Marvel YouTube channel last season and is shown in all the missing posters in Season 2, and she hasn't just turned 14 because apparently she turns 15 a little later in Season 2 (and I'm assuming that's not like 11 months on). So, if she's turning 15 around early 2018 some time, that means she was born in early 2003, making her a freshman in December 2017. And in Season 1, Episode 7, Molly says the others are 3 years older than her. Knowing what it's like to be in school at these sorts of ages, when you're referring to a group that are all in the same school year, so that you don't have to worry about the nitty-gritty of the exact dates of birth, you would just use this to describe how many school years above you they are, so Molly here is basically telling us that the group are seniors, so born September 2, 1999 to September 1, 2000. But if she's not, then you can stretch this comment, if you assume she is just referring to the majority of the group having been born in a window that you could still call "3 years" before early 2003. The absolute latest for this would be late 2000 (2.2ish years but 3 calendar years), and the absolute earliest would be mid-to-late 1999 (less than 3.5 years).
 * Implies all born September 2, 1999-September 1, 2000, if not, strongly implies the majority were born c. August 31, 1999-December 31, 2000.
 * Season 1, Episode 9 (I think): Nico is shown as a baby "15 years ago", only about 3-4 months old. "15 years ago" before December 2017 should really be no earlier than January 1, 2002. At a push, we can assume they're rounding a little bit (bearing in mind that it's specifically shown on-screen and they previously showed specifically "18 years ago" and things) and say it's 16 years ago, so no earlier than January 1, 2001 (though also, it's supposedly soon after the first sacrifice, and they already made a mistake saying that was "15 years ago" when, if 2017 is the 15th consecutive year, the 1st should be 14 years ago, so 15 is already pushing it). Another thing to take into account with this scene: Amy is about 2½. Amy was 16 in December 2015, so born December 1998-December 1999, most likely closer to December 1998 considering the actress who played her was like 30. If Amy is minimum 2-and-a-bit and the earliest she could have been born is December 1998, again, this shouldn't be earlier than January 2001. And if she was born as late as possible, December 1999, and is not-quite-3, that puts a latest boundary on the scene for November 2002. So, overall, this scene alone ideally being no earlier than January 1, 2002 and no later than November 2002 should mean Nico was born no earlier than August 2001 and no later than August 2002. At a push though, if the scene's as early as absolutely possible, then Nico was born no earlier than August 2000. Also, with all the evidence, there's no way they're younger than juniors, so absolute latest they were born September 1, 2001.
 * Implies Nico was born August 2001-September 1, 2001 (which would mean all born September 2, 2000-September 1, 2001), if not, strongly implies Nico was born August 2000-September 1, 2001 (which would mean all born September 2, 1999-September 1, 2001).
 * Hulu website after Season 1: In Season 1, Alex Wilder is 17, Chase is 17 in Season 1, Gert Yorkes is 16, Karolina Dean is 16, Nico Minoru is 16. This would make them juniors, since they're in the same school year, so all born September 2, 2000-September 1, 2001, and Alex and Chase were 17 by December 8, 2017, but the other 3 weren't.
 * Strongly implies Alex and Chase born September 2, 2000-December 8, 2000, strongly implies Gert, Karolina, and Nico born December 9, 2000-September 1, 2001.
 * Season 2 promotional material and actual episodes: All 5 shown on missing posters to be 16. This would imply that they are 16 through all the time that the posters are shown (some are digital so you'd think at least those would be updated if a birthday happened), but at the very least, they were all 16 on December 24, 2017, so December 25, 2000-December 24, 2001. And there's no way, with all the other evidence, that they're younger than juniors so still the latest they could have been born is September 1, 2001.
 * Strongly implies all born December 25, 2000-September 1, 2001.
 * Season 2, Episodes 2 and 3: Nico and Alex explicitly said in late December 2017 or possibly early January 2018 to be 16, so born late December 2000/early January 2001-late December 2001/early January 2002. And again, they weren't born later than September 1, 2001.
 * Strongly implies Nico and Alex born December 2000/early January 2001-September 1, 2001 (which would mean all born September 2, 2000-September 1, 2001).
 * Overall, it seems like ideally, they would all basically be as close to 17 as possible. I think, considering 16 is the only thing explicitly coming from the show, it has to take precedent, but a lot of evidence points to 17 so basically, I think they should really be as old as possible. Obviously it's a bit weird if they're all born very close together but it seems like they might have to be. Basically, I think the 5 of them must have been born around late December 2000-January/February 2001. They really should all be 17 before Molly turns 15 because if any of them are 16 while Molly's 15 that's really just wrong to call it "3 years".

As I've written this, taking some very light notes on my rewatches of Episodes 1 and 2, I do think it's looking possible to slip some days in some gaps in Episode 1.

MCU Comics (CirUmeUela)
CirUmeUela wrote: Yes, totally agreed. I know about the "official" tie-ins with the red stamps. It's nice because all or most of those are available on Marvel Unlimited which I subscribe to. And none of these comics are 100% canon in my opinion either, but a lot of them are what I call "optional MCU canon". I have a spreadsheet with every MCU-related comic that I could find out about here. You can check it out whenever you have the time, if you want. I believe it's mostly a complete list. I have the ones that I think maybe fit into canon labeled as "Maybe Canon" and for the ones that are definitely not canon, I listed reasons why. I didn't catch that thing about Captain America and the Blitz, so thanks for pointing that out.

If you could send over whatever you have on that list, that would be greatly appreciated. But no rush. I have some Japanese friends who may be willing to translate the two "Episode 0" comics from the Weekly Shonen Magazine. If I have to, I will try to buy some of these on eBay or something. But I don't think I'll be able to find them all, which is ok. I'll still try for a while and then I'll give up on the ones that are impossible to find anywhere. I'll try to check that out and give you some links and things at some point in the next few days, probably once I've finished Runaways: Season 2, if that's OK.

Official Timeline (Marvelus)
Marvelus wrote: Apparently, here is where the Official MCU Timeline will de dropped.

Beware, our greatest enemy is just 4 months away... I did wonder when I saw that book being announced, considering the first one was published in the artbook for The Avengers. But do you know that for sure? If so, where did you hear that? Because there's been some speculation that the timeline will be in the First 10 Years book they're releasing.