Thread:Marvelus/@comment-26838855-20190116120806/@comment-26838855-20190430202131

AVENGERS: ENDGAME SPOILERS

From now on, I'm saying Endgame spoilers are fair game. No one should be looking at this part of the wiki at this point if they haven't seen the film/don't want to know what happens.

Infinity War Placement and Its Relation to Ant-Man and the Wasp and The Punisher: Season 2 (Rman823, me, Marvelus, Lebnyx)
Rman823 wrote: I currently have AM&TW as April-May 2018 due to the April 30th date on Scott's computer. I think I can assume that it does in fact say February and it was left up a couple months. As I say below, my intention was never to suggest that this changes anything. We just have to make sure that any and all evidence/information is noted nonetheless, even if it's not changing anything.

BEJT wrote: Also no real new information to place Infinity War and it seems like Far from Home might not give us much more either, honestly. But we'll see. I am very curious about that film's timeline. Over the next 2 weeks, once I've finally completed the last episode of The Punisher: Season 2 notes and the conclusions, and I've written up the final episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (it looks like the user who said they would will not end up doing it), I'll have a final reevaluation of all the placement evidence, and we can slowly start coming to conclusions, albeit not able to call it final (I mean we can never call it final really but close-to) until Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6, Jessica Jones: Season 2, and Spider-Man: Far from Home.

Rman823 wrote: Getting ready for Endgame tomorrow, and until we have more evidence I've temporarily placed Ant-Man & The Wasp' from the 4/30/18 date on the computer. Therefore, placing the snap and the A.O.S. finale as being 5/10/18 (which fits with the current placement of Spring/Early Summer). I thought it was a funny conicdence given A.O.S. Season 6 is said to be a year after Season 1 and the first episode airs exactly a year from where I'm temporarily placing the Season 5 finale (5/10/19). Marvelus wrote: The Snap cannot be on Early May 2018. The Punisher has its ending through mid May. So Infinity War may have to begin in late May-early June 2018. BEJT wrote: Also I know I did 12/13 episodes of The Punisher notes and never quite finalised it. I suddenly became embroiled in all sorts of other wiki work, but I'll be going back and just finishing that off with the exact dates in the coming days. But yeah, it goes into mid-May. Finishing soon. Just got caught up in so much stuff and never go the time to rewatch Episode 13 and write the notes.

BEJT wrote: Also I was trying to make clear with the Ant-Man and the Wasp banner that it's not meant to say "Here's the answer" because no, it can't be January/February - I was saying that I'm just sending it because it needs to be noted. Lebnyx wrote: I checked the website of the museum, (https://sfmcd.org/exhibitions/), and the only exhibition that seems to match up with the date is the Architectural Pavilions exhibition which ended on January 7, 2018.

Source: https://sfmcd.org/architectural-pavilions-experiments-and-artifacts/ BEJT wrote: Thanks, I hadn't been able to find an exhibition but I must've been just looking for beginning on January 7th, not ending. Obviously we can just assume it's an old banner, it was just a minor detail that hadn't been spotted before and we should always bank all evidence on the timeline however small.

Star Wars Timeline (Edward Zachary Sunrose)
Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I remember reading somewhere that Star Wars has a dedicated timeline person. Marvel could definitely use one for the MCU, it would come in very handy especially with the TV shows in play. (Lord knows they need an entire team of them for the comics.) They have the "Lucasfilm Story Group" I believe, something like that. I guess Star Wars is more linear as one series with just different corners rather than a universe full of different series, so it's easier, but they should have done this for the MCU as well. I just get the impression that Feige never really cared about timelines.

The Effect of Endgame on TV Shows and Far from Home (Marvelus, Edward Zachary Sunrose, me, DaenerysTheMadKhal58, Mrmichaelt, Rman823)
Marvelus wrote: Endgame kind of spoilers timeline related, no specific given:

So, from what I have read, it is going to be fun and a mess to work things out at the end of the movie relating it to Spider-Man: Far From Home, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S6 and Jessica Jones S3. Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Wait, so whatever happens doesn't decanonize Agents of SHIELD Season 5? (Particularly the fact that it hinges upon Thanos' invasion?) SWEET. BEJT wrote: They've caused the TV shows a lot of problems for the coming years but particularly the next couple, and I have a lot of questions about how Far from Home is going to work. I thought the Far from Home stuff might be a timeline-nerdy-thing-no-one-else-cares-about, but enough people are asking about it that it might actually be addressed.
 * Did Peter's whole class get snapped to allow them to still all be in school?
 * Did some not get snapped but just don't look particularly different because the actors are in their 20s anyway? And school just didn't happen for 5 years or the U.S. decided to reset like it's still 2018?
 * Ned's reunion with Peter seemed to imply that he'd mourned Peter and is shocked to have him back, but it really doesn't seem like he's aged and obviously he's still in school with Peter, so I guess he did get snapped?
 * The film will be set in July 2023, weirdly. Still makes the poster wrong. Also all this fear about how the Spider-Man sequels will cause the timeline to lag behind real time, when in the end, they'll be set in the future...
 * I reckon the next 5 or so years of films will only be set (just the ones set in present day) across a year or so, until the real world catches up again around 2024. Spider-Man 3 should come out c. 2021-2022 and be set around the first half of 2024 so I don't think they'll just catch up by 2023, but around 2024-2025 the films should be caught back up. Plus next year's presumed films, Black Widow and The Eternals, are seemingly not set in present day (different reports would suggest 1999, 2000, 2006, 2009, or across several of those years for Black Widow, and The Eternals being set across millennia).

Marvelus wrote: And I am sure the episode from AoS screened on WonderCon will be different from the one we are going to get in a few weeks. I don't think they can afford the time, effort, and money of completely reediting the episode to exclude all reference to the Snap just to show it at WonderCon, and make it come across as seamless. I hope you're right, but I'm not confident.

BEJT wrote: I don't think it is false information. I'm just baffled as to how they'll deal with this (I'm concerned, especially with Jessica Jones, that they just won't) and very curious about Far from Home. But no spoilers yet I guess, I've messaged our private chat to discuss spoilers. Marvelus wrote: Yeah. For my viewing order I will be seeing


 * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S5
 * Avengers: Infinity War
 * The Punisher S2E13 (epilogue)
 * Ant-Man and the Wasp
 * Captain Marvel
 * Jessica Jones S3
 * Avengers: Endgame
 * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S6

That seems odd to me.
 * 1995 - Captain Marvel
 * Lots of content in between.
 * Spring/Summer 2018 - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 5, Episode 18
 * Spring/Summer 2018 - Ant-Man and the Wasp
 * Spring/Summer 2018 - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 5, Episodes 19-21
 * Spring/Summer 2018 - Avengers: Infinity War
 * Spring/Summer 2018 - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 5, Episode 22
 * Spring/Summer 2018 - Ant-Man and the Wasp mid-credits and post-credits (if you wish to split the credits scenes from the film)
 * Spring/Summer 2018 - Captain Marvel mid-credits (if you wish to split the credits from the film)
 * Spring/Summer 2018 - Avengers: Endgame opening (if you wish to split the opening from the film)
 * August 2018 - The Punisher: Season 2, Episode 13 epilogue (if you wish to split the epilogue from the episode)
 * Autumn/Fall 2018 (presumably) - Jessica Jones: Season 3
 * Spring/Summer 2019 (presumably) - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6
 * Spring/Summer 2023 - Avengers: Endgame
 * Spring/Summer 2019 (presumably) - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6
 * Spring/Summer 2023 - Avengers: Endgame

DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: ENDGAME TIMELINE PLACEMENT SPOILER BELOW

Would be hilarious if Far From Home did not acknowlegde the timeskip in any way, but I know (or I'm hoping) they won't do that. I know it's still made by Marvel Studios, but I don't know, after the "8 years later" I feel like anything could happen. Excited to see the second trailer and how they frame it.

Runaways is never catching up to Endgame, is it? At least Cloak & Dagger had a timeskip recently.

We know AoS S6 starts one year later, but it would be cool if Seasons 6 and 7 basically bridged the gap between IW and (the end of) Endgame. They said the timeskip is part of the tie-in, I'm curious about how they'll handle things. At least people are more aware this time for when Far from Home is supposed to be set than they were for Homecoming, if there ends up being problems. I'm much less scared about the timeline for Far from Home now because it is more deliberately placed than 2018 would've been.

Runaways: Season 3 should at least still be set in early 2018 (so long as they don't start really contradicting themselves with the whole "new instalment set straight after the last yet that came out quite a while ago and was set in real time and so is this" thing which bothers me so often.

I would love if Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. bridged the gap (I'm so interested in the post-Snap world and want to see more of it), but I just am not sure they'll do it, at least intentionally. I don't think they said the time jump was part of a tie-in, just that it answered the question for someone at the WonderCon Q&A asking whether this would be set after the Snap (it's a year later, since Season 5 ended alongside Infinity War), and Loeb went on to basically say, "As for the rest of your question, go see Endgame then wait and see."

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I mean, I'm glad Endgame didn't decanonize the TV shows, but it sure as hell did them no favors, especially with the time gap. And judging by a certain reunion near the end, it seems like we can assume that most of our important supporting characters for the movie side were among the dusted, while it's most likely that anyone important on the TV side remained. It's just very statistically unlikely for Peter, Ned, Betty, M.J., Flash, and potentially others all to have gone, and for May, Mack, Fitz, Simmons, Deke, Daisy, Piper, Enoch, and even Coulson (because May says they got more time than expected on the beach - he didn't just go in the Snap seconds after the end of Season 5) to have all survived. Plus potentially Jessica, Malcolm, Trish, Jeri, Oscar, and anyone else in that show. And for the shows to not mention the massive deal of the Snap having happened recently.

Marvelus wrote: About the time gap, we must be grateful that the Netflix shows got cancelled xD.

When Strange asked Wong if he brought all the heroes available, I took it like: "Did you search for every vigilante on the streets?", in my head of course. Yeah, jeez, I have a reason now to actually be kind of grateful.

I didn't read it like that, I just took it as face value as a joke of how many heroes were present, but maybe you can read it like that.

Marvelus wrote: I think that JJS3 will be set in a timeline post Thanos, it will be really interesting. Again, would love this, but not as confident as you.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: That short exchange definitely seemed like a shout-out to all the TV shows. Mrmichaelt wrote: I just saw Endgame. So... yeah. They got a lot of timeline stuff right but opened up some questions... so AOS S6 has be taking place in the post Snap world in between... so what is the policy where, when is it ok to start talking details from Endgame? MrRLopez wrote: Detail description of what happens in first episode of Agents of SHIELD season 6 here : "For those looking for more major tie-ins to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, particularly Avengers: Endgame, don’t get your hopes up. Season 6 picks up a year after the end of Season 5 and the fallout from Thanos and the plot of Endgame don’t play into the plot of the show really at all, according to Loeb."

This looks so messy, if the TV shows are declare non-canon I'm going to be mad, Kasius level mad. But idk, it's Marvel, lets wait and see what happens. Endgame script was finished a while back for the TV side to know the time gap and I doubt the company will ruin everything. Fingers crossed. Exactly, that was the kind of thing I'd read when the episode aired at WonderCon. They would presumably have had to edit out a lot for it to acknowledge the Snap, and I doubt they did. Or they just withhold until Episode 2 before referencing it, which would be odd.

They're official canon, forever. Just we might end up with Jeph Loeb making a lot of excuses on the feebleness-level of his Avengers Tower excuse. Not his fault, not picking on him, just the unfortunate reality he might be stuck in. And even more of this stupid uptick in the last year or two of people who don't want to watch the shows insisting "Yeah but they're not really canon" just because they don't cross into the films.

BEJT wrote: Marvelus is sure that we have received false information about Season 6 but the problem is, they showed Episode 1 at WonderCon. Even if it were set 5 years later, there's no referencing people dusting and coming back because it would've been mentioned by attendees, unless they did a heavy edit job on the episode.

Loeb will likely have a lot of questions to answer soon. I'm definitely expecting a lot of Loeb saying things in interviews like, "Unfortunately it's difficult to make production schedules align" etc. etc. "I can say that all our main TV characters survived and have other problems they've moved on to" or something like that. With Jessica Jones he might just still use the "It's before the Snap" excuse which isn't actually to do with the timeline but more of just a cop-out for people who don't pay attention to the timeline. Unless the season can pass for Autumn/Fall 2017 instead but that would be annoying, breaking the Netflix chronological order at the last minute and meaning we potentially have days with three simultaneous Netflix events in Autumn/Fall 2017. Still, better than contradicting the Snap I guess. But I do think it'll set itself in 2018.

To be clear, I think this solution is much better than just "undoing" the Snap and taking things back to 2018. It's way more impactful and interesting, it's just problematic outside of the film itself.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I don't think Marvel Studios would go to the trouble of using a certain someone from the TV side in Endgame, and consider the Defenders for Infinity War if they were going to decanonize it all with AoS 6. The likely options are that the Decimation will be addressed later on, or that it'll just be assumed to be common knowledge to the viewers, since there's very few (if any) AoS fans who don't watch the movies, and won't be brought up at all.

Thanks to its smaller budget, AoS has never been able to afford huge crowds of extras anyways (the Framework arc taking place in an extremely desolate version of Washington DC is proof of this), so we can just assume the Decimation has taken place unless we see crowds of thousands in every background shot. Yeah worst comes to the worst, you assume it happened, all the main characters survived, and they just are done talking about it a year on. Just those are big assumptions.

Mrmichaelt wrote: Hmm, so basically the only current shows we'll have to "wait and see" if there are Endgame contradictions are Agents of SHIELD S6, Jessica Jones S3 and potentially Runaways S3. Guess so. Rman823 wrote: I'm expecting Runaways S3 to pick up not long after S2 and hopefully end pre Infnity War. I'm sure Jessica Jones is going to contradict Endgame. I'm also sure A.O.S. will contradict Endgame since it's meant to be a year after S5's ending and therefore Infnity War, which will be a shame. Hopefully once the writers realize the contradiction they'll work a way around it at a later point. Maybe not quite "contradict" but "not acknowledge" which, for such a massive event, is essentially a contradiction. I think there's a chance Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. acknowledges it, because that show knows where it is in the timeline (it knows, even if it doesn't know the dates, that it's a year after Infinity War) and has more tie-in with the films, but I'm not confident, and I'm definitely not confident in Jessica Jones, which could very well even if they somewhat knew just gone, "Well we don't really know how Netflix slots in to the MCU timeline so let's just do our thing and say it's set before."

Mrmichaelt wrote: Agreed on Runaways.

Seems like Jessica Jones could take place in Fall 2017 hopefully. I think BETJ settled on S2 ending in May or June 2017. Come to think it, I'd guess S3 news should be dropping soon with a trailer/release date. June or July maybe.

We'll find out soon enough with AOS, just about 11 days to go. Hoping for the best... Season 2 ends in early June. It's possible that Season 3 is set in 2017, but every Netflix season so far has been chronological, which would mean this has to be 2018, and it filmed in mid-to-late 2018 so it's likely that any props and things, as is often the case with Netflix, place it around the time it filmed.

Rman823 wrote: Yeah it would be nice if Jessica Jones could be set in Fall 2017. But given they shot in Fall 2018, I wouldn't be surprised if there's more evidence for it there. Hopefully there isn't anything too blatant about its placement. Exactly.

Mrmichaelt wrote: True. I would not be surprised if they say something like it's 1 year later or 2 years later... I would be surprised by 2 years because the Netflix writers always seem to assume it's been a few months since the last season of whichever show - they write things like only a few months for the characters, even when they don't explicitly say it - they have always, at least in their minds, without thinking about the wider implications, compressed time rather than stretched it. But they could well say "last year" or something.

Marvelus wrote: Am I the only one expecting Jessica Jones S3 to be set in a world post Snap? I mean. It is very likely, for me. And it is the greatest environment for a cold and dark world like the one seen in Jessica Jones until now. Suicides, depression, disasters, chaos, Jessica Jones can show perfectly how the world Post Snap be like. I mean it probably is, just I don't expect them to acknowledge it sadly. I wish I had your confidence. But man, as you say, that would give the show so much interesting material.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: AoS filmed Season 6 during the summer and they're either wrapping up Season 7 now or did recently, I remember reading reports that they began filming in January or February. So if there is any discrepancies with Endgame, which I doubt because AoS has consistently been the best at keeping the timeline cohesive, they wouldn't be able to address them until a hypothetical and still unconfirmed Season 8. And since AoS is also really great at keeping their seasons roughly real-time, that Season (if released in 2020), would still take place about 3 years before the undoing of the Decimation. I don't think they've wrapped Season 7 yet, they only started filming fairly recently and it took like 5 or 6 months to shoot Season 6. But it's nonetheless likely too late to put something in other than perhaps a passing reference, if they really have just found out. I think they've got to have been told something beforehand, it's just unfair if Marvel Studios didn't just give them the tiniest bit of necessary information, and they're under the same umbrella of Disney so it's not like they have no incentive to cooperate if necessary. It's just whether the shows got enough necessary information and/or enough to act correctly.

Mrmichaelt wrote: Fair point. 2017 and maybe overlapping the other Netflix shows or 2018 in a post Snap world. Enticing choices. Would love 2018 and acknowledging.

Jarvis (Steve993, Marvelus, Rman823, Edward Zachary Sunrose,
Steve993 wrote: The full cast list of Endgame has been revealed on IMDB it seems. I've been making some slight additions but if anyone wants to remove them or re-edit them to emphasise "spoilers" then you can go ahead. Again spoilers ahead but there was one TV connection I wasn't expecting but I'm glad because it solidifies it as canon. Hint: Not Netflix or Agents of SHIELD.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154796/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm Marvelus wrote: Well that, technically, reaffirms the canon of a bunch of TV Shows. It made me so happy.

Rman823 wrote: It make sense that show's canon is reaffirmed. I've always felt it was closer to the films for obvious behind the scenes reasoning. Less than 43 hours to go before I see the film. After reading a couple spoiler free reviews, I don't think my hype can be contained any further. It's the one that came closest to being Marvel Studios rather than Marvel Television. It's still Marvel Television but it had people from Studios involved, such as Markus and McFeely and Joe Russo.

Marvelus wrote: Yeah but reaffirming that TV Show canon status indirectly and technically reaffirms Cloak & Dagger, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Daredevil and Iron Fist. Rman823 wrote: Oh I know. It's funny though because everyone was hoping to see certain TV characters in Endgame and this one is probably the least expected (while also making plenty of sense). I'm a huge fan of this character and the fact I'm seeing more of them has me even more pumped for Endgame. I love the character as well. Never loved the show as much as many people did, but loved both lead characters. It just made me so happy to see him. It's a tiny, tiny appearance but the implications were wonderful.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Anything that reaffirms C&D, Daredevil and Iron Fist, by extension indirectly reaffirms Luke Cage and also Defenders, which means Jessica Jones and Punisher as well.

And Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. would also extend to Agent Carter and (ugh) Inhumans.

That just leaves Runaways.

But I'm just happy that this movie doesn't contradict Season 5, that was my one fear going into Endgame. Think I'm going to avoid the internet for the next 42 hours. Wish me luck. BEJT wrote: A surprise TV appearance I loved. Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Also, that TV cameo was EVERYTHING. Why couldn't we have had that with Melinda May in Captain Marvel? Would've been SO EASY to do. The only complication I can see with that being May in Captain Marvel is that it takes extra time and money to deage her (plus Ming-Na Wen probably costs more than the actress but that shouldn't really be a problem). Still, I agree that would've been so great, and I've said before that some of the agents on the Helicarrier in Age of Ultron should've been Coulson's team (minus Coulson himself to avoid the whole "But what if they haven't seen the show?" excuse).

This is how you do it. These characters are background characters anyway, what difference does it make for them to just be switched with other actors? It makes no difference to film-only fans/casual audiences, but is a massive bonus for TV fans. No one who didn't watch Agent Carter saw Endgame and went "Who is that character I can't possibly understand?" (also they still would've got something out of it, working out it's who Tony named J.A.R.V.I.S. after), but it meant a lot to TV fans.

Marvelus wrote: Hell yeah, I loved that!!! I wanted Melinda May too :c A shame, but hey, we finally got something.

We now have three film references to TV:
 * "I pulled her out of mothballs with a couple of old friends."
 * "Metropolitan General Hospital".
 * Jarvis.

Everything Else Avengers: Endgame (me, Edward Zachary Sunrose, DaenerysTheMadKhal58)
BEJT wrote: Well, the film got everything in the timeline exactly right, and also, all I'll say is: MINOR SPOILERS, IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

It does not impact the MCU timeline the way I thought it would.

MINOR SPOILERS OVER. I assumed it would reset things to 2018, but it didn't, which is much better for the story, but obviously could cause problems.

BEJT wrote: Oh also, the Captain Marvel credits scene isn't part of the film. Takes place before. Tony is said to be on "Day 22" so it's 22 days after the Snap, then I believe when he gets back they say it's been "23 days", so it only took Captain Marvel a day to return him (makes sense since he only had a day left to live), so I assume she left for him the day before the film, suggesting that's when the Captain Marvel credits scene takes place - 21 days after the Snap. Also by the morning, so 24 days since the Snap, they're saying Thanos destroyed the Stones 2 days ago, so likely just before the beginning of the film (not including the Barton scene), and the ambush on him is the same day because I think when they talk to him it's still "2 days" since he destroyed the Stones.

BEJT wrote: Going to give it another day or two before discussing spoilers on here for other users' sake, but if you've seen the film and want to see my breakdown of how it all works in spoiler detail, I think I've cracked it here. So... I worked really hard on making sense of the quotes and everything, and I believed I'd got it. There were people insisting that Cap went to a different timeline but I explain throughout that thread why the film only sets up the logic for how it could be the same timeline, and does not provide the precedent for Steve to have lived in an alternate reality and yet somehow get back to the main reality, and if the Russos/Markus and McFeely were to choose that as the way it worked, they would need to give us an extra piece of information that isn't in the film.

Well, in an EW interview the Russos have (annoyingly) said it is an alternate timeline, and admitted that the film doesn't give us a way he could've done that, that there is another piece of information missing, but they want to leave it a mystery.

I wasn't wrong in anything I said, other than I couldn't have possibly guessed the Russos' intention to be something not provided in the film. This is annoying.

BEJT wrote: Two quick things. Can't find Ava Russo's age but the Poynton twins were born c. October 2007, so Lila would've been born, based on them, around October 2008. But Ava is definitely older than 9, I would guess maybe she was 12-14 during filming, so overall maybe we can guess Lila was born around 2006 - 8-9 in Age of Ultron, 11-12 in Infinity War.

And Hank Pym says in Ant-Man that he invented Pym Particles "40 years ago", but we find out in this film that he had invented them by 1970, so I'm going to assume he invented them in 1970 (as close as possible to 1975) and Hank was rounding down due to it being 4 decades. Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Can anyone who's read The Cosmic Quest: Aftermath tell us if Selvig is hidden away somewhere during its events? He's reported as missing during the beginning of Endgame, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was dusted, as evidenced by Scott, nor does it mean he wasn't found sometime later, as he was only deemed missing 3 weeks after the Decimation. I've got it, I haven't yet read it. Will let you know when I have.

Cloak & Dagger: Season 2
BEJT wrote: Cloak & Dagger continues to be a disaster. Obituary: "Fuchs, aged 32, passed away on February 11, 2018." Marvelus wrote: Cloak & Dagger be like: "8 months my *ss" Well, this does nothing to dispute 8 months since Fuchs' death was in Season 1. It's just... wrong. DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: So is C&D S1 going to be changed to 2018? That would put S2 post-snap, but it's not like the show would acknowledge the snap either way. I'm hoping not, but if they keep referring to the year being 2018... BEJT wrote: No, Cloak & Dagger has always been a contradictory disaster with evidence for 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. I'm just mentioning that there's yet another piece of contradictory information now. The overall evidence still points to 2017. Yeah, to be clear, like with Ant-Man and the Wasp above, if I note evidence it doesn't necessarily mean I'm saying, "So we have to change this now," just that it is important to note everything, even when contradictory to the bulk of the evidence.

DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: So what should Steve's age be now? We don't know how old he was when he made the jump back to 2023... Yeah I don't even know. Guess we remove it... just it feels very weird not having Captain America's age on his page considering his age is quite an important part of his character.