Thread:Marvelus/@comment-26838855-20190116120806/@comment-1998684-20190310235045

BEJT wrote:

James Gunn Comment (Marvelus)
Marvelus wrote: My bad then. Lets hope you can find it. Because finding a comment from nearly 5 years ago must be kind of impossible. Not your bad, I didn't make myself clear!

Yeah, I briefly tried in summer. Facebook is obviously easier than Twitter, Gunn was a very active tweeter, and I did get back to 2013 on his Facebook and start scrolling through, but it eventually crashed and I didn't have the time to go back again. But I will at some point, probably this summer.

Captain Marvel (Rman823, Mrmichaelt, Marvelus, Steve993, myself)
Rman823 wrote: Curious to see how specific Captain Marvel is with its placement. We know it's 1995, but I wonder if we're given any hints to the month or days. Obviously we now know it sets itself in June 1995. Apart from the final scene, which is a couple of days later, the film takes place over 3 days I think. Without spoiling, Day 1: Opening, Day 2: Blockbuster not long before dawn and then everything up to the black box/calendar scene, Day 3: The shed, right up to washing dishes. The scene with the calendar, the night of Day 2, could be anywhere between June 1, 1995 00:00 and June 30, 1995 23:59. The middle of that is June 16, 1995 00:00, so the night of June 15, 1995. Therefore the best guess would be that Day 1 is June 14, 1995, Day 2 June 15, 1995, and Day 3 June 16, 1995. Epilogue's probably about 2 days later.

However, we will need to check about the songs, and other pop culture references. If any of them were released say in late June, obviously the film should be after that.

References that weren't songs: I remember True Lies (including the image of Arnold and Jamie, so they also exist in the MCU), Hook, and The Right Stuff being in Blockbuster. That's all fine. Someone mentions Brad Pitt as a sex symbol, and he became a sex symbol around Thelma & Louise in 1991 so that's also fine. As well as the Rock the Vote posters we saw in the image Brie posted back in November, which must just be a few years old, I think there might have been a poster up for a campaign for the 1996 election? Seems a bit early but it might have been a party representative campaign, or I just misread it. The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is mentioned, that's fine. The Fonz from Happy Days, that works fine.

Songs: I've found a list, but the problem is, I can't remember which ones are played in-universe and which are just soundtrack. If anyone is seeing it again and could keep an ear out for the three songs in bold and if they're in-universe, that would be great.
 * Whatta Man by Salt-n-Pepa is in-universe in the cop's car. Released 1993.
 * Connection by Elastica, I remember noticing it in the film after it was in the special look, but can't remember when it is in the film. Released 1994 though, so fine.
 * Only Happy When It Rains by Garbage, I remember it being in the film but can't remember when. I hope it's out-of-universe, because it was released in September 1995, or if you take it as just being played off the album it was released on, that's still August 1995. But hey, if it's in-universe then it's not a big deal, it was just released a couple of months earlier in the MCU. It's not like Walk by Foo Fighters in Thor, where we have to actually believe it was released back before it was even recorded in the real world.
 * Waterfalls by TLC is played in Fury's car. Released May 1995, all fine.
 * Come as You Are by Nirvana is played in a scene I can't really describe without spoiling, but in-universe as an existing song. Released 1992 (also was used for The Defenders promotional stuff, which I thought of the moment it started playing).
 * Just a Girl by No Doubt, I don't remember its placement in the film. Released September 1995, and the album released October 1995. Could again be a bit problematic if it's in-universe. Seeing something online saying it is during the final fight, so shouldn't be in-universe.
 * Man on the Moon by R.E.M, I don't remember its placement in the film. Released 1992 though so not a problem.
 * Celebrity Skin by Hole it says online is just the credits, so it wouldn't be a problem that it's from 1998.
 * Crazy on You by Heart is apparently in a memory of Carol as a child, but I don't think it could have been in-universe since it's a go-kart race, can't see where music would be coming from. Regardless, it's from 1975 so that's reasonable. The music might also even be a hint of when the scene is supposed to take place. More on that later.
 * Kiss Me Deadly by Lita Ford is apparently in a memory of Carol and Maria before Carol's crash, and that works because it's from 1988.
 * You Gotta Be by Des'Ree, I don't remember its placement in the film, but it's from 1994 so that's fine.

Considering the train line, which Mrmichaelt mentions we found out about when the first trailer came out, and that there might be some songs from a couple of months later than June 1995, it might be worth instead considering placing it June 29-July 1, 1995 (as late as possible), as that would mean it's as close as possible to fitting with the real world references (i.e. the assumption of being earlier in the MCU than real world is as small as possible) and also, since often songs play a bit before release on the radio, has a better chance of being close enough to those songs' release to work.

Mrmichaelt wrote: If they're adhering to real life stuff, that train we've seen in the trailers and promos started operation in August 1995 I believe so that could preserved in the MCU. Yeah, I was slightly disappointed with the June calendar, knowing about the August train line going in.

I also didn't get the chance to memorise which day of the week the calendar started on to check if it actually matches June 1995 with the days of the week. I hope it does, because there's sufficient evidence in the MCU to suggest that the days of the week match.

Marvelus wrote: It is set after October 20th 1995, that is for sure Steve993 wrote: Actually before. Haven't seen the film but I read about spoilers anyway because curiosity and also I feel they're unavoidable anyway so I nowadays I for the most part go in knowing things although sometimes things aren't entirely spelled out so some stuff can surprise me depending what it is.

That being said though what you're talking about to me sounded appropriate and will be to me one of the best nods in the film. It raises some meta questions though. Marvelus wrote: I haven't seen either, I saw an edit in the 1990s page referring to a movie released in 1995 (10/20) and J am basing my conclusion from that. Rman823 wrote: Really curious how a Mallrats reference is handled. Not only is Stan in the film as himself but there are mentions of Marvel and characters like Spider-Man, Hulk, X-Men, Green Goblin, etc. I guess we could assume that it's a slightly different version of the movie. As you know, but for others who haven't seen the film, the line he is reading, while I don't remember what it was, doesn't specifically reference anything Marvel. As we discussed, it's not worth the headache to work out the full logic though😂.

I think he might be credited as playing "Stan Lee" in the film (since GotGV2 they've still credited him as an individual character, not the Watcher Informant). I would say that the Watcher Informant at once point in his history assumed the role of a man called Stan Lee who created comic-books (just different characters/worlds to the ones Stan created in the real world), and they were popular comic-books (like Stan in the real-world), so in-universe Kevin Smith invited him to be in Mallrats for similar reasons to why he did in the real world, for the same role (just switch out character names and things for whatever the MCU equivalent is). This also works for why he looks older than real Stan Lee did in 1995.

However, I would say that the Watcher Informant's "Stan Lee" persona is not as famous in the MCU as Stan Lee was in the real world, seeing as he doesn't get recognised in the present-day.

Marvelus wrote: Kevin Feige said that it is a way to highlight his legacy in the Marvel Universe as a whole. Rman823 wrote: I read up a little and I think we can confirm the movie is before October 20th 1995. Without giving anything away, it seems the reference to it takes place when it was being filmed. Meaning it's most likely early 1995. Marvelus wrote: Oh... I am sorry you guys spoiled the movie for the Timeline xD. As I used to do in the past, however this year will be different. As I am not excited for any of the MCU films this year, looking forward, of course, but not dying to see it as I used to before. So in order to get a surprise, 0 excitement.

However I have been told by my little brother some major leaks from tbe films :) I will never understand this, 0 excitement! How?! This is one of the most exciting years for the MCU! And it makes me sad that you've lost your excitement.

But if it helps you enjoy things more, I guess that's good.

Rman823 wrote: I haven’t really had much spoiled. Just the credit scenes and Stan’s cameo. Ah it's a shame you had the credits scenes spoiled, the surprise of that mid-credits scene was really exciting for me. One of my favourite MCU credits scenes.

Steve993 wrote: Yeah I tried to dance around spoiling it but since you guys are mentioning it Stan's cameo has a reference to Mallrats. Like I said it makes sense timeline wise and is a cool nod but it also raises some meta questions. Is the Watcher Informant actually Stan Lee or is Stan Lee a real person who he auditions to play in the movie? Then there's all the references to Stan's career. As Rman823 and I discuss, the headache's not worth it😂, but see my explanation above for my take on it.

Steve993 wrote: Like I said I haven't seen the film yet the plan is to see it tomorrow. And I guess it should wait until everyone has seen the film but should we start wondering how old some characters are and when their histories sort of came together? Ages of characters like Fury (Proper age not the non-canon one that was removed awhile ago), Carol, Maria, Talos, Ronan (I think Longevity should be added as a Kree ability. That sort of like Asgardians they age at a slower rate than humans hence why Carol doesn't look any different and neither does Ronan between this and the almost 20 year difference with Guardians) and whoever else is necessary. Then again we haven't thought much about Hank and Janet and their history so I guess it all depends on what's important.

There's also a manner of certain character histories. In the tie-in comics which I don't think were ever meant to be canon anyway Fury had some backstory but I don't know how much it could still line up with this movie. There's backstory for Korath in one that's probably now non-canon completely because it makes it seem like he was raised with Gamora and Nebula when we know now he was a member of Starforce that Ronan probably recruited because he saw potential rather than Thanos sending him to work with Ronan.

It'll probably be easier to talk about when I see the movie and everyone else does. I had a quick crack at an approximation for Kree ageing recently, but didn't want to bother doing it if it was going to turn out that Carol was affected by time dilation or used the Quantum Realm or whatever. It was also good I didn't because Jude Law got the time she'd been gone from Earth wrong.

But last night, after watching, I did the proper maths. I was going to add it to the bottom of this message, but I can add it here since you've asked.

OK, so Taryan is approximately Craig Parker's age during 2018 filming in human years in 2018, and his sons, Faulnak and Kasius are approximately Samuel Roukin and Dominic Rains' respective ages during 2017 filming in human years in 2091. We can use the average age of when men become fathers for the first time to approximate the ageing difference.

Faulnak is the older brother. If Dominic Rains were older than Samuel Roukin, we'd have to do some maths to consider both ages, because Faulnak would have to be a bit older than Samuel Roukin in human years, and Kasius would have to be a bit younger than Dominic Rains in human years. But Dominic Rains is younger, so that's fine, we can throw him out.

Season 6 filmed July 20, 2017-April 15, 2018.

Craig Parker was born November 12, 1970. He appears in Episodes 20 and 21. The middle of filming for Episode 20 would be roughly 19.5/22 through Season 5 filming, and Episode 21 20.5/22 through, so overall the middle of his filming was about July 20, 2017 + 269 days * (20/22) = March 22, 2018. Craig Parker was about 17,297 days old.

So, Taryan is about 17,297 human days old in his scenes, which are between March 22-23, 2018 and June 27-28, 2018, so roughly (use this for now) May 10, 2018.

Samuel Roukin was born August 15, 1980. He appears in Episodes 6 and 7. The middle of filming for Episode 6 would be roughly 5.5/22 through Season 5 filming, and Episode 7 6.5/22 through, so overall the middle of his filming was about July 20, 2017 + 269 days * (6/22) = October 1, 2017. Samuel Roukin was about 13,561 days old.

So, Faulnak is about 13,561 human days old in his scenes, which are on August 24, 2091.

Set January 1, 1850 to be "1", January 2, 1850 to be "2", February 1, 1850 to be "32", etc..


 * [Taryan's date of birth] = [May 10, 2018] - 17,297 * [Kree age multiplier] = T = 61,491 - 17,297K
 * [Faulnak's date of birth] = [August 24, 2091] - 13,561 * [Kree age multiplier] = F = 88,260 - 13,561K

The average age when a man becomes a father is 30.9, so about 11,286 days.


 * [Faulnak's date of birth] = [Taryan's date of birth] + 11,286 * K = F = T + 11,286K

So: 88,260 - 13,561K = T + 11,286K So 88,260 = T + 24,847K So 88,260 = (61,491 - 17,297K) + 24,847K = 88,260 = 61,491 - 17,297K + 24,847K So 26,769 = 7550K So 3.54556 = K.

So assuming linear relation, Kree age 3.55 * slower than humans.

This also means Taryan was born around 61,491 - 17,297 * 3.54556 = 163 = June 12, 1850, and Faulnak was born around 88,260 - 13,561 * 3.54556 = 40,179 = January 3, 1960.

OK, so using that, we can approximate Carol's age. This is going to be more approximate because we don't know exactly to the day when Captain Marvel takes place, but also more importantly, when the majority of Avengers: Endgame takes place. For now, I'm just going to say exactly mid-1995 and exactly mid-2018, so let's just say 23.0 years apart. Since only approximating, I'm also just going to go with Brie's approximate age to the nearest half-month for now.

Brie was about 28y7.5m (28.625) old during filming for Captain Marvel, 28y1m (28.08333) for Endgame (she filmed it first).

So her weighted average age was [28.625 * (1 / 28.625) + 28.08333 * (1 / 28.08333)] / [(1 / 28.625) + (1 / 28.08333)] = (1 + 1) / (0.03493 + 0.03561) = 2 / 0.07054 = 28.35158. The weighted average date was [1995.5 * (1 / 28.625) + 2018.5 * (1 / 28.08333)] / [(1 / 28.625) + (1 / 28.08333)] = (1995.5 * 0.03493 + 2018.5 * 0.03561) / (0.03493 + 0.03561) = 141.58160 / 0.07054 = 2007.10985.

So, Carol should be biologically about 28.35158 around 2007.10985. This would make her 28.35158 + (2018.5 - 2007.10985) / 3.54556 = 28.35158 + 11.39015 / 3.54556 = 31.6ish in human years in Endgame, 3.5 years older than Brie is. It would make her 28.35158 + (2018.5 - 2007.10985) / 3.54556 = 28.35158 - 11.60985 / 3.54556 = 25.1ish in human years in Captain Marvel, 3.5 years younger than Brie is.

But most importantly, when Carol has her transfusion in mid-1989, she would be 28.35158 + (1989.5 - 2007.10985) / 3.54556 = 28.35158 - 17.60985 / 3.54556 = 23.4ish. She's human until that point, so she would have been born around 1989.5-23.4 = 1966.1ish, around February 1966.

Mckenna Grace was about 11y11m old during filming, so her scenes would be around early 1978, although the song I mentioned is probably a hint that that scene takes place closer to 1975. Except according to the wiki she's credited as Carol aged 13, so maybe it's 1979. It also says London Fuller plays 6-year-old Carol, so around 1972.

The other people you ask about. I'm not going to go through the exact maths right now but Lee Pace was about 39y2m (39.16667) old for Captain Marvel and 34y5m (34.41667) old for Guardians of the Galaxy, so let's assume he is 2 / [(1 / 39.16667) + (1 / 34.41667)] = 36.64 in human years around [1995.5 * (1 / 39.16667) + 2014.6 * (1 / 34.41667)] / [(1 / 39.16667) + (1 / 34.41667)] = 2005.67, so born around 2005.67 - 36.64 * 3.54556 = 1875.

Maria, well, Lashana Lynch was about 30y6m old, so born around December 1964. Monica we know from an interview is 11, so born around December 1983 (depending on the maths taking into consideration the actress' age, which I'll do at some point), making her in her mid-30s in the present-day.

Talos, don't know. Don't know how Skrulls age.

Marvelus wrote: I haven't watched Captain Marvel yet, but I think it will introduce a mess in the continuity (not for the shows) but for a movie: Captain America: The Winter Soldier. (Continuity error) I don't think it's a spoiler since Samuel L. Jackson confirmed it a while ago to say that we see Fury lose his eye.

There's two options here. One, it's before Captain Marvel and Fury was just bald and... I don't know... tired and stressed, looking older than he does in June 1995. Two, there's a scene at the end where they offer him a glass eye. We don't see him say like, "No, I'll take an eyepatch!", so maybe he tried a glass eye briefly. Although come to think of it, he still has his bad eye in The Winter Soldier, and I assume you can't just have your bad eye shoved back in after a while.

Steve993 wrote: That's something I was thinking about too long before the film came out because they kept hinting the eye thing in this film. Well they didn't really hint, everyone just assumed because it's a prequel and they tend to show you all the significant moments from a character's past happening in one week in prequels. I was actually very pleased that the film didn't do that for Ronan or Coulson or much with Fury, the eye was the only thing really. There's a moment at the end, but it's not really a coincidence that it happened at the time of Captain Marvel though.

Rman823 wrote: Saw Captain Marvel last night. The only thing really helping with the timeline is Fury mentioning 1989 as 6 years ago (which fits with the film being in 95) and a June calendar behind Fury in a scene. So the most likely placement for the majority of the movie is looking like June 1995. We know the film has to be sometime before the release of Mallrats on 10/20/1995 and this would work. Marvelus wrote: Excellent, you are really great at spotting calendars and dates in the MCU products.

I am seeing it tomorrow, do you remember in which scene is that calendar seen? BEJT wrote: Rman823, you beat me to it by a few minutes.

Just got out of the film half an hour ago. Had a blast, nothing revolutionary story-wise, but had a really fun time.

And yeah, it's June 1995. Despite the train line opening in August, but oh well, not a big deal.

What's this about Mallrats? I haven't caught up on the chat (been avoiding in case of spoilers) yet, I'll scroll up and read and respond later but I didn't catch a Mallrats reference.

It's not explicitly stated that Fury and Coulson just met, luckily. There's a scene where Fury refers to Coulson as "the new guy" but we can just take it that he's just been promoted or something, and he also says something implying they're just getting to know each other but there's easily wiggle room in there.

Fury's date of birth is shown to be 1950 but I didn't catch the full date. There's a few dates on files and ID cards that I didn't really catch, I think Fury's ID maybe also said that it was issued in 1985. And he's been working a desk job for 6 years, and yeah, despite what Jude Law said, all the stuff in Carol's past was 6 years ago in 1989.

The timeline seemed fairly sound to me all in all. Although I'd have to check that all the pop culture references line up. Should also say Marvelus, having discussed this - as I expected, the trailers didn't do Brie justice. She's great in the film. I really grew to like the character and am excited for her future.

Also, there's a user claiming Fury's full date of birth shown is July 4, 1950 (I only had time to read the "1950" part, but I think the whole date is there). So he shares a birthday with Cap (and America...).

BEJT wrote: Marvelus, just seen your message (I started typing right as Rman823 posted, so only updated once I'd posted).

The calendar is fairly obviously shown in a few shots. You'll see it. Rman823 wrote: Don't want to get too specific, but it's during the scene where they're playing audio from Carol's black box. It's right behind Fury so isn't too hard to miss once you see it. Rman823 wrote: I think you mean "isn't too hard to catch" or "is a bit hard to miss". I agree, it's not small or anything, it's fairly clear and obvious.

During Stan's cameo, he is reading his script from Mallrats and apparently is playing himself. Since the movie came out in October of 95 we can assume that he was working on his cameo around June. The actual filming dates of Mallrats may not agree with this (not sure when his cameo was filmed IRL) but given in that movie he mentions Marvel, Spider-Man, Hulk, etc. we can assume the Mallrats of the MCU is slightly different. BEJT wrote: Thanks, I looked it up on my way back. I've seen Stan's cameo in Mallrats before but I've never seen the film so was not familiar enough with it and didn't recognise the lines.

It's a bit unclear if he's playing himself because obviously he looks significantly older than he did in 1995 (though I also thought they might have given him a bit of deageing sheen possibly? But still definitely older, and sans beard). I wouldn't think too hard about it, it's a guy who may or may not be playing Stan Lee reading the script for Mallrats presumably before the film's release. I'm not going to bend over backwards to work out the logic of a Stan Lee cameo joke that's clearly not meant to be taken too seriously.

And yeah, Mallrats probably filmed earlier than June but it's firmly set in June 1995 and the Mallrats reference isn't really a contradiction so, yeah, I'm not too bothered about the minutia of it.

Will catch up on messages soon. Rman823 wrote: Yeah, it's a cute meta joke but figuring out how it could work would be an unnecessary headache. Indeed. But my rough sketch of an explanation is above.

Not sure how accurate it'll end up being but thanks for trying to calculate the ages as best you could. I was never good at math so reading your calucations felt as complex to me as Mar-Vell's formula lol.

I do wonder what Fury's service record really is? From the Army to possible CIA and then to SHIELD. Taking out the prequel comics for a moment that I again don't consider canon but some people disagree if he was born in 1950 (I tried catching the date when I saw him pull out the ID badge but could get it and I was a glad someone caught it) then when would he have achieved the rank of Colonel roughly? Did he join the Vietnam War or would he have been too late? There's a bit more left to explore certainly before and after Captain Marvel and I hope a Disney Streaming Service Series does that.