Thread:Marvelus/@comment-26838855-20190116120806/@comment-26838855-20190423024548

Cloak & Dagger: Season 2, Episode 4 (me, Mrmichaelt, Edward Zachary Sunrose)
BEJT wrote: I've worked out Season 2, Episodes 1-3 of Cloak & Dagger. I worked out that one of Tandy and Melissa's meetings appears to be the day after Melissa said it was "Friday", making the meetings, assuming they are weekly, Saturdays. This makes the events of Episode 3 a Sunday evening, 242 days after February 28, 2017, March 1, 2017, March 2, 2017, or maybe March 3, 2017 at a push. It lines up nicely as March 1st (so just linearly after the end of the episode) and Sunday, October 29, 2017.

I've placed all the events of Episodes 1-3, including the Episode 3 flashbacks, based on that. If we need to, we can shift things by a day or whatever if it turns out the meetings aren't Saturdays or aren't weekly.

I've also made a table for the non-linear events of Episode 2, similar to Runaways: Season 1, Episodes 1 and 2, but should be a lot simpler. I'll use that to put those events into one linear order by working out the timings soon.

As for Episode 4, the show continues to be a timeline disaster. Billy is shown to have been 17 but born August 1990 - should be 17 and '91 or 18 and '90. A poster early on appears to say Tyrone is 18, and then at the end they explicitly say Tyrone is 18 - despite him being 8 at the time of the accident exactly 8 years before Season 1 and therefore 16 in Season 1, meaning he's maximum 17 now. Mrmichaelt wrote: So from the past week's Cloak & Dagger episode takes place over a day? The raid on that gang's hideout was at night(?) then here Ty and his mom are spending the next day eluding the Kings by the end when Connors breaks the stained glass window, there's still daylight. Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I find it strange that everyone, including the last episode, confirmed it's been 8 months, but then Tyrone's mom says she met Tandy a year ago. Didn't notice that the first time, ugh this show. "A year ago" would've been just about acceptable, it's that it's "last year" that's the problem when it's specifically 8 months since Mardi Gras. They're thinking of how in the real world Season 1, while 8 months ago, was "last year" - but come on, your finale was very grounded in Mardi Gras.

Mrmichaelt wrote: heh heh, yeah. She's been staring at those papers too long to think straight maybe. Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I mean, 8 months is a reasonable enough gap for someone to say "last year", but not when that gap is like February to October. Exactly, and so firmly.

Marvelus wrote: We might have another problem in our hands.

Or it is just another mistake like Fury saying Battle of Puente Antiguo was last year. I have seen people getting mistaken referring to a event as last year even when it was several months ago. It can happen. Nothing we can do about it. If the show jumped between Episode 3 and Episode 4 a few months to get it to late February 2018, it would make sense because it would be last year and also now possible for Tyrone to be 18 (since it would be over 9 years since the accident, when Tyrone was 8). But obviously it's not possible, so we have two fairly big errors. This show is so bad with its timeline.

Mrmichaelt wrote: True, that is a mistake on their part. I suspect maybe they did multiple takes of that scene with variations on the lines and picked the one they thought was the best and it happened to one with the actress alternatively saying "last year". You're giving them more benefit of the doubt than I would. I think they just don't think about it. I've never really understood why, when so much care is taken for continuity between shots and things, some creators don't seem to care when it comes to timeline consistency.

Canon Books (me, Edward Zachary Sunrose, Marvelus)
BEJT wrote: Canon books 6 and 7, I guess. Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: BEJT wrote: Canon books 6 and 7, I guess. Wait, 6 and 7? What's the 5th? I only know Heroes Journey IW/AM&W and Cosmic Quest Vol. 1/2

Also, I wonder if that second one is going to just be a novelization of Thor's arc in IW. It's probably mostly that wit a bit of embellishment. It's the same author as the two The Heroes' Journey books.

And yeah:
 * 1) April 3, 2018 - Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War: The Heroes' Journey by Steve Behling.
 * 2) April 3, 2018 - Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War: The Cosmic Quest Volume One: Beginning by Brandon T. Snider.
 * 3) June 5, 2018 - Marvel's Ant-Man and the Wasp: The Heroes' Journey by Steve Behling.
 * 4) November 20, 2018 - Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War: The Cosmic Quest Volume Two: Aftermath by Brandon T. Snider.
 * 5) February 5, 2019 - Captain Marvel: Higher, Further, Faster by Liza Palmer.
 * 6) April 2, 2019 - Avengers: Endgame The Pirate Angel, The Talking Tree, and Captain Rabbit by Steve Behling.
 * 7) April 2, 2019 - Avengers: Infinity War Destiny Arrives by Liza Palmer.

Marvelus wrote: There is also one about Captain Marvel early years in the Air Force and a couple more. No just that one on top of the original four.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Oh right, I forgot about that one lol

Phase Delineation (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Mrmichaelt)
Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Not really timeline related, but Far From Home is confirmed to be the finale of Phase Three by Kevin Feige himself, which I've been saying for years now.

I never saw Phase 4 starting in the same year as Phase 3's ending, I always expected FFH to be an Ant-Man situation and I'm so glad to be vindicated. Mrmichaelt wrote: Exactly! Couldn't agree more. When I read about it the other day it hadn't yet caught on and I didn't really know how people would react. Because after proper official confirmation of Far from Home being the beginning of Phase Four, an offhanded comment doesn't seem enough to completely overthrow that. But it's Feige, who is the authority, and doesn't make interview mistakes or get confused, so I guess.

I have mixed feelings about it. I guess they feel after all that Far from Home is more of a footnote to Endgame than a launchpad for the future, it seems odd for The Infinity Saga to end with Far from Home. With Ant-Man, because Age of Ultron wasn't a particular culmination in the way The Avengers and Endgame are, it didn't matter, so it was more important for Civil War to launch a phase than for Age of Ultron to end a phase, but this is such a big ending. Oh well, will wait and see.

Mrmichaelt wrote: I am curious how much time will pass in Endgame total (does it take place over several days? weeks? months?). Because they saw 22 days pass between IW and EG. And FFH takes place right after Endgame but we know it's more broadly in July 2018. Like does FFH open right after Endgame then do a timeskip to July? Reading too much between the lines, it's almost implied IW might have been in June. Years, I'm fairly sure at this point.
 * Natasha's hair looks to grow for at least a year or so.
 * Emma Fuhrmann is rumoured to be playing Cassie, was 15 during filming. Her tweets recently support this.
 * Rumours of 5-year time jump.
 * Gwyneth Paltrow potentially slipped up about Tony and Pepper having a child.
 * There's even rumours Katherine Langford could play their grown-up daughter.

It was why I was saying that the second trailer, in showing Black Widow's long hair, went as far as we've got so far to "confirming" time travel, as it almost proved the film will go into 2019 at least, but they have to return to 2018 by the end.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I mean, we still don't know how Endgame will mess with the timeline. If the persistent fan theory of time travel is true, there could be a huge time skip, and then they go back in time and undo the Snap. If they do that, it's totally possible for Far From Home to pull a Homecoming and pick up right after Endgame, then jump to July. Mrmichaelt wrote: True. I'm very much at just "wait and see" at the moment because there are so many factors.

Russos' Chronological Order (Edward Zachary Sunrose, Rman823)
Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: It looks like the Russo brothers have stuck to the commonly agreed upon chronological order, they did Dr. Strange after Homecoming and followed it up with Ragnarok. There's only Infinity War and Ant-Man & the Wasp left, and I really don't think they'll put Wasp after Infinity War. I assumed they would do it this way after they messed up with Homecoming because it looked like they would put Homecoming the next day, meaning Doctor Strange wouldn't come until after Homecoming. And that's great, they got it right, but again I don't think it's "commonly agreed", I don't know that I've ever until now seen someone put Doctor Strange between Homecoming and Ragnarok.

Rman823 wrote: It just makes sense. Even if the end credit scene tie-ins, the majority of the movie is before Infinity War and I think they agree with the majority that Infinity War and Endgame should be watched backed to back. Yeah, they seem to be going purely chronological and not adjusting for "makes more sense" or anything because this is a rewatch order.

Marvelus wrote: To be honest, I was not worried at all. The Russos brothers are the only directors that truly care about the MCU as a whole, from potentially including Daredevil and Luke Cage in Infinity War to nail down the exact timeline of events (correcting Homecoming's mistske). So I knew they were going to agree with us in the chronological order. I definitely was worried, and obviously it's not (at least in my opinion) perfect, but I'll take 19/21 if they land these final two correctly. I also think that Homecoming was like that because they're not going off some thoroughly-prepared list, but good on them for correcting. But you're right, the Russos care.

Marvelus wrote: I would put Ant-Man and the Wasp between Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame due to the post credit scene. But if you're doing that, you would also have to put Captain Marvel between. This is why I differentiate between watch order and chronological order, I would never recommend someone watch Captain Marvel or Ant-Man and the Wasp before Infinity War on first viewing, but then on rewatch it's chronologically correct.

DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: Following that logic, Captain Marvel would also be between Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame. Some people seem to think Ant-Man and the Wasp happens simultaneously with Infinity War (not just the credits scenes), so it's best if they put it before, in my opinion. Yeah exactly.

Also I think Ant-Man and the Wasp is sort of intended to be simultaneous without really thinking about the logistics of it and how actually it has to be a while before. They really didn't think through the house arrest syncing up with Natasha's line.

Marvelus wrote: That is an exception, Captain Marvel's post credit scene will be seen in Avengers: Endgame is not part of the movie in question. While it is unlikely we will see the Pyms getting dusted in AE. But if you're putting Ant-Man and the Wasp after Infinity War that implies you're moving it for "credits contain spoilers" reasons, and Captain Marvel would be the same. If you're basing it on just the scenes being new or in another film, there's no reason that should affect the watch order, what difference does it make for Ant-Man and the Wasp to be before Infinity War?

Yeah, again, first watch order and chronological (rewatch) order should be separate things in my opinion.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: The only mistake I see with their order is the mistake BEJT pointed out. Hulk should be between Thor and Avengers.

However, I personally prefer for Thor to lead into Avengers, so I'm not really bothered by putting Hulk before Thor. And it also seems to be the order most people use anyways. I would also add The First Avenger as in the wrong place but again, I get it. And yeah I do think that The Incredible Hulk isn't the best to lead into The Avengers with, but by my order (if you watch The First Avenger based on its 2011 placement) The First Avenger is the one leading in, which makes sense. The Incredible Hulk would only lead in if you do accept it's the last in Fury's Big Week but also still place The First Avenger first.

Again, I'll fairly happily accept 19/21 correct. If this means that all those weird watch orders on social media get put right in the Civil War to Infinity War section, that at least is a big help.