Thread:CirUmeUela/@comment-27496405-20180307074410/@comment-2112031-20180708121448

BEJT wrote:

I've finished the season now as well. I finished it yesterday as well as watching Cloak & Dagger Episode 5. The only things I'm behind on now are Cloak & Dagger Episode 6, which I'll probably watch today, and Ant-Man and the Wasp (no option there).

I would add a couple more things to the 2017 evidence now, both from the finale: We got a couple of actual named "Trump" references this season, and that scene basically sealed it for me, when D.W. specifically refers to November 9th and a few lines later talks about Trump. It was clear that in the MCU now the president was at least a Trump-like figure, but yeah, we 99% now know that in the MCU, Donald Trump is actually president. I think the month of the registration sticker says "11", I might be wrong but that's what it looks like to me, so at least that checks out. I noticed D.W. mentioning Trump, but didn't notice him mentioning November 9th. Well, that's further evidence for 2017, good catch.
 * When Misty hides behind a car in a shootout, the car again has a "18" registration sticker. I couldn't make out the month (perhaps will be able to with a HD screencap), but it would have to say 9, 10, 11, or 12 for it to work with it being September 2018, so there's basically a 67% chance it doesn't work with 2018.
 * D.W. says, "Personally, I haven't felt this weird since November 9th." This is a reference to Trump being elected (he actually even says "Trump" just after). Sure, you could say that it's now September 2018 and he's just referring to November 9, 2016 and knows they'll know what he means, but it would make a lot more sense for it to be September 2017, because then saying "since November 9th" automatically means November 9, 2016.

BEJT wrote:

True, because Roxxon (which, like you say, gets referenced all over the place) got referenced in Daredevil: Season 2 after it was a big deal in Agent Carter: Season 1 the year before. So that's kind of an indirect reference in the Netflix shows to the non-Netflix shows.

We've had a few references in the non-Netflix shows to the Netflix shows, like the Judas bullets, and Daisy's mention of Micro retroactively becoming a Netflix reference (wasn't really intended that way I'm sure). But it's not often that the Netflix shows link in with the other shows. Also the Dogs of Hell, who showed up in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1 and later showed up in Daredevil: Season 2. Although that would also be considered a retroactive reference.

BEJT wrote:

I've got several things I can add to it, with the mid-'80s (it's not "mid 80's" Marvel, that apostrophe is bad grammar, come on...) date needing to be established, which will be linked in with younger actors playing Cottonmouth, Mariah, Ben Donovan, and Bushmaster. So we've got new factors like Ben Donovan and Bushmaster's ages and we've got new data for Cottonmouth, Mariah and Mama Mabel, and for Pistol Pete's murder.

1987, while quite far off from the previous estimate, actually sits reasonably well with me. I always felt the calculations made Cottonmouth too old by several years - it was just that I thought in the Manifest flashbacks that Mariah and Cornell were presented to be no more than about 10 years apart in age, despite the adult actors being over 21 years apart. But it looks like the age gap might actually be bigger than that, and that helps.

I was really impressed by the appearances of the characters in the mid-'80s flashbacks. I thought the actors playing young Bushmaster and young Ben Donovan absolutely looked like younger versions of their characters, it was uncanny. And with Anansi, I found myself going, "He looks so much like the present day actor that there's no way that's a different actor, yet he really does look about 30 years younger, so how can it possibly be the same actor? It doesn't look like CG deageing, it looks too natural and real, and you probably can't really do that on a TV budget, especially so well." I think it was the same actor, just made to look younger, but yeah, I thought they were all spot-on! Agreed, they did a great job with the actors. It should be noted that Pete is the one who shot Bushmaster in the "Two Years Later" flashback, so we know that it must have happened before April 1987.

As for Mariah and Cornell, the age gap was always strongly hinted at, such as her comment about changing his diapers as well as someone mistaking them for being aunt and nephew, a running gag they repeated in this season with Shades.

BEJT wrote:

I think Billy's date of birth on the carton can just be discarded, I'm fairly certain that it is "2/13/02". The August 1, 1990 date is much more likely.

But yeah, this show's timeline is all just a mess. Hopefully it clears up a bit before the end of the season, but if not, we'll just have to do our best. Yeah, I suppose the milk cartons are too unreliable at the moment, we'll see how things go. As for Episode 6, I've seen it. Maybe you have as well, but I'll just mention that the oil rig explosion is explicitly and unambiguously referred to as being 8 years ago and a car is seen with a 2018 license plate.

BEJT wrote:

Right yeah, I was only asking because I hadn't seen the episode and didn't know whether your notes were meant to imply anything more than what you said - I wasn't suspecting that there was a link. Good to get extra notes, I just didn't know if you meant to imply anything significant. No worries. I generally try to include any timeline related info and an explanation for why the info is relevant. In this case, it was just me going "Well, I'm already looking at this, so I might as well mention it for the sake of thoroughness".

BEJT wrote:

This show continues to find new ways to confuse us with its dates. But 2011 being the date it was updated is a good explanation, I like that - there's no way the show is taking place in 2019.

Thanks for pointing that out about Billy's death, I've started to get a little bit lost with minor characters like Connors and Scarborough and Caruthers and so didn't pick up on the significance of it. Will have to pay a bit more attention on my rewatch. You're welcome, it was initially a bit vague about why O'Reilly was looking at old narcotics files. In any case, it's possible that those files aren't all about Connors' activities specifically, but we definitely know that the "02/18/2010" file is indeed that, so the point remains.

BEJT wrote:

No worries, no worries. There is, I guess, a slight implication from Nandi's comment that O'Reilly left Harlem during the time that Misty wasn't at the precinct, between May 2016 and August 2017. That would, in turn, perhaps add to evidence for Cloak & Dagger being 2017 or 2018. There's also the implication with the dialogue with O'Reilly that she's not been in New Orleans for too long. But again, the references don't matter too much, there's a lot of wiggle room.

We're now in March in Cloak & Dagger with the state finals occurring in Episode 5. I'll have a more specific look at exact dates once we have a better idea of the year, since otherwise I'll just be going, "Well, if it's 2015 the Friday is this date, if it's 2016 the Friday is this date, if it's 2017..." etc.. Yeah, doing those calculations is difficult enough when you know the year. Working with different just makes things more complicated. That being said, 2017 is beginning to look the most likely, we'll have to wait and see.

BEJT wrote:

Well, it looks like February-March 2018 might not actually conflict with Infinity War now.

I'll get back onto The Comic Board soon. Now that I'm caught up on Luke Cage and about to be caught up on Cloak & Dagger, I don't need to worry about those, I'm just kinda scared of Ant-Man and the Wasp spoilers. Last time I went on, DIrishB had made a post which included the spoiler tag coding, except he'd missed a letter or a square bracket or something and so it had come out normally. I'd been reading and then got to "[spoiler]the mid-credits scene of Ant-Man and the Wasp" and I had to immediately scroll up as fast as I could to avoid it. I don't know if he's corrected the coding of the post, but since that happened about last week, and with me focusing on the wiki and catching up on the shows, I decided to avoid the thread. If it's safe to go on there, I might have a read and put in a word basically analysing a full list of the evidence for Luke Cage and the evidence for Cloak & Dagger, like I've done on here. He seems to have fixed the coding now. They mentioned that it's explicitly stated in the movie that Scott had only 3 days left on his two year house arrest. However, it was also stated in Infinity War that him and Hawkeye took a deal and the Infinity War Prelude shows that Scott took the deal shortly after escaping from the Raft.

As such, the likelyhood of his sentence being reduced by a couple of months in exchange for his cooperation is very much within the realm of possibility.

BEJT wrote:

That's possible. The evidence for Episodes 18 and 19 being close together is stronger than the evidence for Episodes 13 and 14 being close together, so it's easier to insert a gap between 13 and 14. If a gap were inserted between 18 and 19, it could only really be a few days max., with it being very strongly implied that they've come straight from the events of Episode 18. If a few months' gap becomes necessary between 13 and 14, I would say that there's not too much point inserting a few days' gap between 18 and 19 just to get 14 slightly closer to 13, because honestly, when you get to a few months, what's the difference really between the 13-14 gap being about 170ish days or it being 165ish days? Don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting that we reduce the gap between Episodes 13 and 14, I was simply saying that we also add a gap between Episodes 18 and 19 as well.

Episode 18 ends with them departing back to the Lighthouse. Episode 19 opens with everyone having evidently been back for at least a little while. Yo-Yo's arms have been fixed, Fitz and Simmons have been working on making the Zephyr spaceworthy, May has been checking up on Creel and talking to Tony Caine and Mack has been deliberately avoiding Yo-Yo. Time has obviously passed.

I also think that we really can't ignore Deke's broken arm. The way we currently have it, his arm gets broken on January 9th and it's healed completely the next day. To say that that's not possible would be an understatement. At minimum, it takes 4 weeks for such an injury to fully heal, and that's under optimal circumstances (i.e. reasonably minor break, immediate medical attention from professionals, plenty of rest, etc.).

Deke's circumstances were not optimal, so 4 weeks would actually be an incredibly optimistic estimate.

As you yourself once said, time gaps can sometimes be our friend, and in this case they seem like a necessity. We can assume that the agents kept themselves busy with their respective tasks for weeks or perhaps even months before they started arguing about what happened with Ruby. It's not ideal, but it's possible, which is good enough now that it's becoming necessary.

BEJT wrote:

I'd like to hear what exactly the dialogue is in Ant-Man and the Wasp, if they specifically say "days" or even more specifically say like "3 days", or if it's more of an "I've very nearly completed my house arrest," which allows a bit more leniency.

BEJT wrote:

Yeah, seen it now. Both the mid-'80s flashback and the file appear in the episode, and like you say, there's the "4/13/1987" file (I'm not entirely sure how Marvelous saw "6/16", I thought it was fairly clear, sorry Marvelous😉😂) and then the blurred "approx. ??/??/????" date of death. The fact that the date of death they've put on the file is an approximate might suggest that maybe Pete had been dead for a few days when his body was found - I imagine the closer to his death, the more accurately they could have pinpointed his date of death. But yeah, April 1987. Well, the body was taken out of a river, so it probably wasn't in the best condition when it was examined. At least we now have a concrete estimate around which we can construct the timeline, so that's good.

BEJT wrote:

Thank you so much! Sorry this is a bit of a pain, but I can't really do much about it, and I don't really want to spoil it for myself or pirate it. Don't worry, it's no big deal. I don't really have much trouble with not talking about spoilers.

BEJT wrote:

Thanks again! You're welcome.

BEJT wrote:

I really enjoyed Luke Cage: Season 2 by the way guys. I thought some of the first half of the season was great, some of it a bit slow, but overall I thought it was more consistent in quality than Season 1 (I do like Season 1 quite a lot, I like it maybe more than some other people), and was kind of consistently a little bit weaker than Season 1, Part 1 but better than Season 1, Part 2. Overall, it might actually be a bit better than Season 1 on average. I was a tiny bit disappointed that Bushmaster wasn't a part of the finale, but I did find the finale very interesting - basically telling us that Mariah was always the most important villainous character, and going to very interesting and stunning places with Luke. And finishing with the RIP message to Reg E. Cathey as well, right after we hear his words echoing in Luke's head - I found that effective. RIP Reg, he was great in this.

I think I might rank the Netflix seasons as:

Great:

1. Marvel's Daredevil: Season 1

2. Marvel's Jessica Jones: Season 1

Mostly really good:

3. Marvel's The Punisher: Season 1

4. Marvel's Daredevil: Season 2

5. Marvel's The Defenders: Season 1

6. Marvel's Luke Cage: Season 2

7. Marvel's Luke Cage: Season 1

Pretty good:

8. Marvel's Jessica Jones: Season 2

Meh:

9. Marvel's Iron Fist: Season 1

Don't be deceived by Luke Cage seemingly being low down though, the "Mostly really good" section are all very tightly packed, like, both seasons are not far off the number 3 spot. It's just the nature of ranking that they appear as if the quality spacing is equal. I really enjoyed the season as well, although it did take a few episodes to really get going. I enjoyed Jessica Jones: Season 2 as well, although the reception has been a bit more mixed on that one.

The ending was unexpected and left me wondering where things would go from there, which is a good thing. I'd be pretty great to get a second season of Defenders in which we see how everyone has to deal with each other and everything that has happened in their respective shows.

Marvelous 345678 wrote:

I haven't seen the movie, but I don't think that Infinity War and Ant Man and the Wasp take place on late June 2018. It just can't be. It contradicts Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Thor: Ragnarok.

In that case, I will suggest to move Ragnarok to December 2017 so if we push Infinity War forward (I don't agree with the January setting anymore) the "timejump" will not be too long. They said that the Spacesman was like 22 jumps from Asgard, so that suggets that it has been a couple of months (that ship moves very slowly). Well, like you said, we don't know the speed of the Sovereign and how far a "jump" is supposed to be. That said, moving Thor: Ragnarok to December 2017 could end up working.

Marvelous 345678 wrote:

That December 6th date can be ignored. Those devices can be outdated knowing that the headquarters were abandoned for a while. I don't think that's necessary, at least not right now. It's the only explicit date we have and, as I've already mentioned, we could just add a couple of months between Episodes 18 and 19 in order to move the events of Infinity War to a later point.