Thread:CirUmeUela/@comment-27496405-20180307074410/@comment-26838855-20180716023514

The Wikia Editor wrote: Early December for Ragnarok seems about fine. I feel that it's better to avoid November due to Kevin Feige's statement on the matter. I know that you mentioned earlier that placing it in late November based on evidence wouldn't be in contradiction with that statement, but avoiding it if possible seems like a better idea, especially since the movie doesn't really feature much of Earth anyway. We'll see what'll work out best. Like you say, I don't personally think that avoiding November is a necessity. I think the meaning of Feige's statement more just tells us, "Well, act as if the film has no release date. The timeline does not give regard to the release date." December works but the huge number of times we were told it's 2 years since Age of Ultron just makes me feel that November's a bit more comfortable.

I was sorting my weighting values for different kinds of non-contradictory evidence and I feel I got it pretty much right for Ragnarok. We'd kind of agreed that all the evidence we had at that time placed Ragnarok around the very end of October 2017, and with the updated values, the maths placed it there. So I feel like the values are correct now, and all that needs to be done is adjust where necessary and see where the maths would now place the film. It's pretty much unbiased - honestly, I don't know where the maths will place it, I would guess maybe late November-ish. I feel like using the maths values is basically doing what Feige said - purely analysing based on the evidence - and the current set of values have shown that they work, so using them again should also work.

The Wikia Editor wrote: I'd say that the netflix shows get plenty of appreciation all things considered. There are people who are more dismissive of them and even go so far as to say that they don't consider them to be canon (I recently saw someone declare them non-canon due to the Trump references, which they regard as contradicting Ellis being president as of Iron Man 3).

In general, however, people really like them. A lot of people didn't like the progression of the second half of Luke Cage: Season 1 following Cottonmouth's death, but many still like it overall. Iron Fist: Season 1 is pretty universally accepted as the low point of the shows and The Defenders is generally regarded as lackluster due to the slow pacing in the early episodes and the Hand being rather weak villains.

However, Punisher: Season 1 is generally regarded as an exceptional return to form and the recent of outings of Jessice Jones and Luke Cage, although the former's reception is somewhat mixed, have generally being well received.

I myself have generally enjoyed all of them quite well, even though I'm fully aware of the numerous flaws in Iron Fist: Season 1, I still managed to find at least some enjoyment in it.

I similarly couldn't rate any of them with a definite number, it would end up being very subjective anyway. You're right, I should take a bit more perspective and look more at how, critically, most of these shows actually do get well-received. It's just that people I actually see discussing them so often seem tired and bored of them and annoyed at them not being good enough. Maybe the expectations were set too high in 2015. I think the bingeing model doesn't help either, because I know that at least personally, if I watch more than about 2 episodes in one sitting I start to get groggy and sluggish and tired with the shows.

Yeah, Iron Fist became the punching bag of the MCU. Inhumans as well, but I think most people have let that go now because it's come and gone. Sadly, the character gave a bad first impression with his first season - I say "sadly" because I think he's more enjoyable in The Defenders: Season 1 and Luke Cage: Season 2. Sure, he's definitely my least favourite of the four Defenders, but he's alright now I feel. He's learning to be less annoying and more appreciative and it's more fun now that he's got people telling him how stupid he's being. Also he got rid of his ridiculous Season 1 haircut. In all honesty, I'm kind of looking forward to Iron Fist: Season 2 - at least, I'm interested. With the new showrunner, I'm hoping it might actually be alright, and I want to see how they deal with the mistakes they made in Season 1. I'm sure it will still take a bit of a critical beating, because I think people are kind of predisposed to dislike Danny now and getting back to him being the main character is sure to continue to annoy people - I don't know that anything Marvel TV can put together for Iron Fist: Season 2 will be enough to suddenly turn everyone around on the show. But if it's an improvement on Season 1 by a decent margin, I'll take it.

I really didn't hate Season 1. I found him an annoying character with a lot of frustrating things about him but I didn't hate him. I liked (and still like) Colleen quite a lot, and I thought Ward became more interesting as the season progressed. Joy was reasonably interesting, Claire was pretty good though not at her best, and the production quality on these Netflix shows is at least always better than something like Inhumans. Some of the action was alright - more in Episodes 6 and 12 and a bit of 8 with Zhou Cheng, though it should have been better for a show about a character whose whole thing is being a martial arts expert. Still, the season was very dragged out and tedious and Danny was too arrogant and whiny for too long. I can't really say it was good.

The Punisher was received by audiences as a great return to form, but I think because he's not a Defender people have sort of forgotten that it's part of these Marvel Netflix releases, with the Defenders' shows coming to mind first. Critics were not so fond of The Punisher, with it being the second-worst received of the shows, but I think that was more for political reasons.

I always look forward to these Netflix shows. I think many people are a bit tired of them though, and I think watching them all in quick succession and the fact that they're coming out twice as fast as they used to both don't help. But they're generally well-received and I enjoy them, and I hope some people come around on them again a bit more.

The Wikia Editor wrote: Yes, it's a plate. It's visible when Tandy goes up to the car in order to stab the tire. According to this site, vehicle plates in Louisiana must be renewed every 2 years, meaning that the events of Season 1 are set in the range of 2016, 2017 or 2018. OK I think I found it in the episode. Is it a really small "18" in the bottom right corner of the "STANMAN" plate?

It's a good further piece of evidence, and thanks for checking the 2 years thing. I didn't know that number plates could give timeline evidence in the U.S., slightly concerned now that I've missed some stuff in the past. Or is it just for Louisiana?

The Wikia Editor wrote: Having looked at the episode again, Deke seems to get shot in the shoulder rather than the arm. However, as I mentioned earlier, such an injury would still require a minimum of at least several weeks in order to fully heal, so it doesn't really change much about my original estimate.

I do generally agree that Episode 19 "feels" like it's not long after the previous episode. However, there is definitely at least a short timeskip, since everyone is back at the Lighthouse and reporting on their respective duties. The dialogue between characters regarding the events of the previous episode is vague enough that we could insert a couple of weeks or even months between them.

Again, not ideal, but it can be done. Right, I've had a really good look at the episodes now. So, Deke is shot in the shoulder in Episode 17. He wears the sling in Episodes 18, 19, and 20. Then for 21 and 22 it's gone, suggesting he's at least reasonably comfortable and healed now.

Episode 18 follows on immediately from Episode 17, and there's no possible gap during Episode 18. During Episode 19, we get the first reference to Infinity War, so there's no gaps after that - and there's no possible gap during Episode 19 either. So you're right, the only possible gap to allow healing time would be between Episodes 18 and 19.

This is everything I can find for the suggestion of how long it's been since the last episode: OK, so, it definitely can't just be one day. Thank you for pointing this out because I'd kind of overlooked it. All other evidence points to it really being absolutely no more than a day or two, but then this is so different in that it suggests a few weeks at least. I think the best possible compromise might be to use the "discharge from hospital" value given in the answer - 10-14 days - and the earliest from that, 10 days. He's already had 1 day, so that would put 9 days between Episodes 18 and 19. 9 days is really pushing it considering all the evidence suggesting it's right after the last episode, but is also really short for Deke. But I really don't think we can go any longer than 9 days, and yet with Deke's arm, I really don't think we can go any less than 9 days (10 days of healing). So a 9-day gap, meaning Deke takes his sling off after 10 days? It's far from ideal of course, but it's far from ideal either way.
 * There is a strong implication that this is the team's first argument after Yo-Yo's actions, suggesting it's the same day.
 * Mack doesn't yet know how Hale escaped, suggesting it's the same day.
 * Coulson is talking to Daisy about her leadership, suggesting Daisy only very recently got back from England.
 * Fitz and Simmons have been working on Zephyr One, which could suggest anywhere between the same day and a few days.
 * Simmons refers to Fitz having a cracked rib following their encounter with Ruby, suggesting it's just happened, but it could have been a few days.
 * Coulson and May have changed their T-shirts but not jackets. Jemma and Mack have changed their tops. With Fitz it's hard to tell because he's wearing a pale shirt during Episode 18 but it's under a jacket and jumper so only the collar is visible, it's hard to tell if it's the same one in Episode 19. Daisy has changed but that means very little because she was in her gear beforehand. Deke seems to be in the same shirt, and Talbot's in the same clothes (but that is to be expected, he likely has very few). Yo-Yo's completely changed. I wouldn't put too much value in the fact that Fitz, Simmons, and Yo-Yo have changed, considering they'd have needed to anyway on returning, but since Mack and Coulson, who were only at the Lighthouse for Episode 18, have changed, that might suggest it's at least the next day.
 * I wouldn't imagine that the Remorath would wait long after Hale visited them to then attack.
 * Talbot has been thinking about his actions in Episode 18 and has just worked out what was going on, suggesting it was still very recent.
 * Deke has already had 1 day's healing time by the end of Episode 18. Now, the 3 months of wearing the sling is more for an ordinary citizen and is likely a generous, "just to be sure" passage of time. If we eliminate the comfort and risk-free elements of an ordinary life, then you get away with it being only a couple of months for a character in situations like this. He wouldn't want to wear the sling any longer than necessary, and wouldn't wear it for the extra "keep wearing it just in case you're not quite there yet" weeks. But that still leaves us with several weeks. Perhaps we can remove another chunk of time if we assume that he's not particularly healed up but removes it out of necessity - he's on painkillers and/or dealing with the pain, and is healed enough that he can deal with the pain of moving his arm a bit if it will allow him easier movement in life-threatening situations such as the ones he's in. So a few weeks then? Still too much though.

The Wikia Editor wrote: It's very difficult to tell I'm afraid. If you look very closely at the ballistics report when Misty flips the page, the page states that the body was in a state of "advanced decomposition", suggesting that it might have been there for a while.

Also, the page contains a mistake. It states that the body was found "outside, inside vehicle", even though it's explicitly stated in dialogue that the body was actually dragged out of the river. It's no big deal, just a small oversight. Good spot with that oversight. I don't really know then with Pete's exact date of death, I don't really see why they had to blur it out, that's a bit annoying. I might have to do a bit of research into decomposition in water.

The Wikia Editor wrote: I didn't know about her being in Daredevil: Season 3, that's nice. Donovan might also appear, since he's also Fisk's lawyer. Yeah, Donovan is also set to appear in Daredevil: Season 3. So we have Carbone and Donovan carrying over, and obviously Foggy also appeared in Luke Cage: Season 2 and will undoubtedly be in Daredevil: Season 3, and I imagine Turk will probably make another appearance. But Carbone's the main one in terms of a potential reference to the crime scene in Harlem.

The Wikia Editor wrote: I agree that we don't know any of this for sure and that repeating rumours isn't the best idea.

Good point about Harley, although, if time travel is involved, they could just have him appear in the 2018 portion of the movie.

Who knows, perhaps the film will depict Cassie trying to use a new, experimental version of the Pym Particles and it accidentally ends up aging her or something. Anything can happen really, time travel wouldn't need to be involved.

At least we now have a firm placement for Cassie's date of birth, so that's nice. Yeah, you never know with this stuff, how it will end up panning out. I don't really do much predicting because it's usually kinda pointless to be honest, I find. We'll see how things turn out, we'll see.

The Wikia Editor wrote: It would be nice if they manage to make it all work without necessarily needing to resort to time travel. Comparisons with X-Men: Days of Future Past would be inevitable if time travel is actually used.

Of course, the time travel wouldn't necessarily have to be physical. It could be like the 2011 Mortal Kombat reboot, in which one of the characters sends a vague message to his younger self on how to prevent the bad future, which allows the focus to remain on the present day characters without devoting too much screentime to a future that will inevitably be undone.

I could easily see the whole thing ending with Future Tony getting the gauntlet and then sending a message to his younger self in 2018. Or he could send a message to Thor to aim for the head. The Wikia Editor wrote: After dealing with time travel in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 5, I'd imagine having a break from it indeed seems like a good idea. I'm interested to see what they do. I trust them to be creative and interesting and not just resort to the usual tropes (though there might be a necessity for a bit of those tropes, just I hope not a huge reliance on them).

The Wikia Editor wrote: We'll be fine as long as we don't get too attached to the theories. I'm reminded of those people who continue to dismiss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. to this day because the show didn't turn out the way they wanted it be (primarily the lack of full on crossovers with the movies).

Theorising is perfectly fine as long the final product itself ends up being a great and fulfilling experience in and of itself and people can handle not having absolutely everything they wished for come true. Yeah, absolutely. Obviously there's so much going on with the reaction to Star Wars: The Last Jedi and I have loads of thoughts on that whole situation that I don't want to get sidetracked into, but I do wonder if getting too far into theory-crafting and setting expectations going into the cinema was one contributing factor to the negative reactions many people had to that film. I was scared after the backlash to The Last Jedi that if Infinity War didn't, say, deliver on several character deaths, people would feel disappointed by it because they had that narrative in their heads going in. Luckily, I think the film struck a really good balance between shocking us but also staying within the general expectations people had for the film, and so managed to please nearly everyone in a way that The Last Jedi clearly hasn't.

But yeah, theorising is fun to a certain point, we just shouldn't go in wanting a film to be a certain way. Captain America: Civil War is my favourite MCU film, but the first time I watched it, I felt a bit weird after. "That was fantastic and I can see that, but I didn't love it the way I wanted to," I thought, "and I think it's because the storyline and the order of events and the way Zemo factored in etc. didn't line up with the film I was expecting." It was only on second viewing that I got to properly love it. I think I've learned better since then how to enjoy films more the first time around.

The Wikia Editor wrote: To be fair, we still don't know how that one will get resolved. It's possible that they'll handwave it away by saying that the machine only shows the most likely future at that exact point in time.

It's kinda like showing someone an image of the future in which they buy their favorite flavor ice cream. If they hadn't seen that future, they would indeed have bought it, but now that they have seen that future, they can deliberately prevent by either buying a different flavor, buying something else, or not buying anything at all. That would be a reasonable explanation, with the device kind of predicting the most likely outcomes of current events. The only thing there is that Chase seems to send a message from the future back to his father in 2017 telling him not to put on the Fistigons. They'll probably just be like, "Well done guys, we managed to prevent that future," and that'll be it for timeline explaining.

The Wikia Editor wrote: Yeah, it's frustrating when that happens. It's similar to how I disagreed with him about Tina Minoru, since the actual statement from the showrunner was a non-commital "we won't aknowledge it" rather than "they're two different characters", which is how Shabook took it.

Still, it's not really that big a deal and perhaps some connection will be stated or at least implied later down the road. In any case, I get what you mean. I found the naming of the Doctor Strange character as "Master Minoru" particularly odd considering that character is canonically called "Tina Minoru". I had mixed feelings about whether the page should be split or not, but I thought that if they were going to be split, they should be called like "Tina Minoru (Master of the Mystic Arts)" and "Tina Minoru (Wizard CEO)" or something like that. Yeah, I agree that the statements did not confirm a difference in character, but oh well.

The Wikia Editor wrote: To be fair, if Scott's sentence is related to the Sokovia Accords, we could just assume that operates under slightly different rules than regular sentences.

I don't know much about the topic either, so yeah, I can't really add much to it.

As for Season 5, I really liked it. But I do prefer the second half, when they're back in the present. There was nothing wrong with the first half, but it consisted mostly of setup and teasing the team's future. Not to mention the fact that it took place in a single, isolated location filled with characters that we'll likely never see again. I didn't dislike it or anything, but was mostly just waiting for them to get back to the present. I'll always really enjoy Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. because it's built my connection to these characters so well - I care so much about them and always love watching their adventures and I think it's a show with a really strong emotional basis. I just don't think that, quality-wise, Season 5 was quite up there with Season 4 - but I did still really enjoy it.

The Wikia Editor wrote: Well, again, the Sokovia Accords might work differently. Unless they explicitly stated that Scott had to serve a full 24 months sentence, we can probably exploit some wiggle room there. Yeah, I think there's a definite chance of there being some wiggle room.

CirUmeUela wrote: Why is it that Thor: Ragnarok needs to be moved from October 2017 where we have it now? Because Infinity War will be moving to later in 2018, and the implication that Thor: Ragnarok and Infinity War are set pretty close together therefore means that Ragnarok should move later a bit as well.

CirUmeUela wrote: Also I'm not sure I understand what the problem is with Cloak & Dagger saying "8 years ago". They mentioned that several times again in Episode 7. What's the issue with just putting Season One in 2017 or 2018 and saying the flashbacks are 2009 or 2010? Something to do with Hurricane Katrina? The problem isn't with the "8 years" so much as it is with Cloak & Dagger in general. There is a host of contradictory evidence placing the flashbacks in 2007 or 2008 or 2009, and the present events in 2015 or 2016 or 2017 or 2018 - and we know that they're 8 years apart. My best guess at the moment would be late 2008 and then February-March 2017, but I'll have a proper analysis of it all once the season finishes.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: Great BEJT!

Yeah, I saw Iron Fist later along all the Netflix series and well... when you grow up the way you saw movies and tv series in the past are not the same. I used to love Iron Man 2 until my 17s. Now I think very different of it now.

Sadly, I don't agree with you on your 30 years later explanation from 1987 to 2018. Wait, are you saying the film actually specifically shows "30 years later"? That's a bit different then. Because what I was saying was that if they just refer to events in 1987 as "30 years ago", that really has no bearing on the current placement of Ant-Man and the Wasp. Someone even in 2019 would still almost always refer to 1987 as "30 years ago" or "about 30 years ago". So just because 1987 is 30 years ago doesn't mean that this has to be in early 2018, just so it can be less than 30.5 years since late 1987. It's perfectly normal for people to round with something like this, it's more common than being specific. We saw much more severe rounding in Black Panther but it didn't mean the film had to be set in the late 2010s to be 30 years since Klaue attacked Wakanda c. late 1989.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: I forgot, Ant-Man and the Wasp CANNOT take place on really late June 2018 because if that is so then Infinity War would take place around mid-July 2018, Peter wouldn't be on class but on vacation. There are several timejumps during the third act-ending and the final scenes of the movie and the post credit scene, minimum three weeks, maximum 7 weeks.
 * Following that..., Infinity War should pick up on August 2018 and nope, that doesn't work.

June 2018 does not fit. I can agree to April or May 2018 if is necessary but March 2018 fits about right. Yeah, I mentioned that a bit before when I was saying that it makes the window very narrow because Infinity War cannot really be later than Tuesday, June 26, 2018, when most New York high schools broke up for summer. Well, since Infinity War should start on a Wednesday based on the flip phone, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume that their high school ended one day later or New York high schools in the MCU ended one day later than in the real world - so let's say that the final day Infinity War can possibly start on is Wednesday, June 27, 2018.

If the house arrest can indeed only be 24 months, there are a few factors for the exact date it would finish on: Now let's look at the best and worst case scenarios. Best case scenario, Scott's house arrest began on June 24, 2016 when he was imprisoned, the sentence is due to finish the day before the exact date 2 years later, and the days in prison count for double so 2 days are removed. This would mean his house arrest ends June 21, 2018, meaning Ant-Man and the Wasp begins June 18, 2018.
 * When does the house arrest sentence begin? I've seen some discussion on The Comic Board that it might, in fact, be the date of his initial imprisonment. So yeah, is it the initial imprisonment, when the deal was made, or when he got home?
 * How much does the imprisonment count? Obviously if the house arrest only started after the imprisonment then this is irrelevant, but if it starts at the beginning of his imprisonment, do the days in prison just count as days towards the sentence, or, as someone brought up on The Comic Board, do they count for double? They mentioned that apparently that is sometimes the case, where the days they spent in prison count for 2 days of the sentence. Because Scott spent 2 days in prison, it would count for 4 days towards his sentence, thus essentially removing 2 days from his sentence.
 * Does the sentence end on the exact day 2 years later or the day before the exact day 2 years later (which, if you include every day served, would be 2 years)? In other words, would a sentence beginning July 15, 2017 end on July 15, 2019 or July 14, 2019?

Worst case scenario, Scott's house arrest began only when he got back to the U.S. (which, if we put it as early as possible, could have been on June 26, 2016) and it ends on the same date 2 years later. This would mean his house arrest ends June 26, 2018, meaning Ant-Man and the Wasp begins June 23, 2018.

So, Ant-Man and the Wasp would begin between June 18 and 23, 2018, and the latest the snap can possibly be based on Peter's high school dates is June 28, 2018. So it can work.

Again, I'll get back to you on what my relative says about the house arrest. I'll send her the email tomorrow. Honestly I'd love for it to not have to place in June, and go earlier around March, but I'm just preparing for that possibly being the case.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: I will start to write the Runaways episodes that remain, I wrote episode 9 but BEJT added some things undoing my progress months ago (just noticed) and will proceed to give more intel on my rewatch of AoS as writing all the episodes myself. Finally, when I start Cloak and Dagger I will do the same. So only corrections and placement can be done. The Punisher, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones need that.

Defenders, if I am not wrong, I have already written everything but needs to be placed. Oh, sorry, did I mess up your Runaways work somehow? I didn't mean to.

Whatever writing you can do is great, and I'm happy to do whatever's left. Basically, as I work through my list of episodes to be written up and put onto the pages, when I get to each episode, if it's been written up I'll just check it so it's ready to be posted, and if it's not then I'll write it myself. Yeah, The Defenders is written but I just need to finish checking the last few episodes.

The Wikia Editor wrote: Basically, the placement of Thor: Ragnarok is partially dependent on where we end up placing Infinity War. What I mean by that is that we're not sure how much time passed between the end of the movie and the post-credits scene. Since we're going to move Infinity War a few months later, it seems preferable to move Thor: Ragnarok as well in order to make the time span less large.

As for Cloak and Dagger, the episodes thus far have produced numerous inconsistent dates ranging from 2007/2009 in the past and 2015/2017 in the present. The inconsistencies make accurate dating really difficult. The best course of action is to just wait until the season is over and then compile all the evidence in order to see what works best. The Wikia Editor wrote: Using rounded numbers in order to express a certain period of time is a perfectly normal thing to do. In fact, we've made that assumption about certain statements made by characters in which the rounded number doesn't entirely work.

Case in point, the characters in Black Panther repeatedly mention that Klaw stealing vibranium from them happened "30 years ago", but we know that this can't be an exact number since they talked about it in the 1992 scene as having happened recently. As such, we assume that they were rounding up and the event happened around 1989, making it more realistic that certain Wakandan agents would only be informed of it about 3 years after the fact. I had written the bits of this reply that were in response to those messages already before I saw The Wikia Editor reply as well, but I thought I'd still keep what I'd written and not go back and delete them. He's explained this better than me though, but yeah, absolutely agree on the 30 years. It's really kind of meaningless to the present day stuff, and The Wikia Editor has made the same point here about Black Panther - the rounding was much worse for that film than in this case.