Thread:Marvelus/@comment-27496405-20190519011243/@comment-26838855-20190702145833

Spider-Man: Far from Home (Rman823, Marvelus, Edward Zachary Sunrose, me, DaenerysTheMadKhal58)
Rman823 wrote: So I caught a little of Far From Home's opening scene and wthout becoming too spoilerly, right away we are told how much time has passed since Endgame and to be honest I'm a little shocked at the answer. At least it will make it a little easier placing both in the timeline. There's also mention that the snap happened halfway through the school year and after midterms. Which is a little problematic given the current placement. Marvelus wrote: Could you please give specifics, man? Please. I don't think that is spoiler. Also, when are midterms suppose to take place? Marvelus wrote: =SPOILERS!!! DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU WANT TO=

EIGHT MONTHS?!! They do really like number 8, don't they? And well. That is annoying. Definitely annoying. We might be in July 2024 now. Meaning Endgame took place around November 2023. Huh. This crazy timelines. Rman823 wrote: MILD FAR FROM HOME SPOILER!!!!!!

I'm curious if there's actually anything in film that says it's July. It's reffered to as being over 5 years instead of what at that point would be 6. So, I'm wondering if there's a possibility that Endgame is somepoint in Early 2023 while Far From Home is Late 2023. But yeah its funny how we've went from the 8 years later fiasco to now 8 months later. There's stuff in the promotional material making it July, as mentioned above, even if the film doesn't itself say July. But also, it's summer vacation, July makes sense. It can't be later than August, which would make Endgame December and thus still make Endgame late 2023 and Far from Home Summer 2024, and with Endgame in late 2023 it is better for it to be November than December and so there's no reason to try to push Far from Home from its natural July placement.

Again, it's not the end of the world for Endgame to be October-November 2023, just weird and a bit annoying. The full moon over Wakanda would be the night of October 28th, so October 28th daytime America, or the night of November 27th, so November 27th daytime America.

Once I've seen Far from Home tonight I can get back to you guys about the exact dates I surmise for Endgame and Far from Home.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: That must've been one mild November. Then again, November 2018 was extremely mild, Massachusetts didn't even get hit with super cold temperatures or snow until late January 2019. If global warming keeps going at the exponential rate scientists claim it is, I could definitely see November 2023 being mild enough to warrant sweaters like Tony's by the cabin, or light jackets like Nat's green one during the time travel experiment.

I didn't pay attention to the scene of Morgan in her tent, were the trees browning? That could help us place it in fall. The only thing being that the Snap likely slowed global warming's rate, but yeah, as I mention below I think people pointed out that Scott arriving at the facility looks like autumn/fall when the first trailer came out. Don't know about the Morgan scene though, I don't really notice that sort of thing unless it's really obvious.

BEJT wrote: None of the above is a spoiler, just saying how long it is since Endgame.

But wow. Just wow. They clearly haven't learned their lesson.

Endgame being October-November 2023 isn't the end of the world. It's still 5 years after mid-2018, and also it mainly filmed July 2017-January 2018 so I guess October-ish, being the middle of when they filmed it, should match up with what's in the film (I think I remember people pointing out after the first trailer that when Scott arrives at the facility it looks like autumn/fall).

It's ridiculous that they pushed the MCU timeline now even further into the future, and this also means that Peter is 17 in the film and not 16 as Jon Watts said. But OK.

The Snap being in the middle of the term is the big thing here. After midterms, is that right after or just after? If we're lucky, the wording would just be that it's some time after, and the "halfway" can more just be taken as "somewhere in the middle" as in not towards the beginning or end of term, so cementing the Snap as May rather than June. DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: The eight months thing is what I was talking about earlier. The movie takes place in the summer at the very least, if not really July, so it's probably 2024, and Endgame was late 2023. This is weird considering that old quote about FFH beginning seconds after Endgame, unless there's a scene I don't know about. BEJT wrote: Weird considering that comment unless it begins right after then jumps 8 months later. But then again, it was Amy Pascal who said that and she's not the most reliable source.

But Jon Watts also recently said that it's pretty shortly after, but he didn't think they specified exactly how long. And I've seen interviews, at the premiere for example. with people involved with the film where they talk about how this is kind of the first time a film has taken place immediately after the last one.

Apparently that's more of a figure of speech for "it follows up on the events of". Protego Maxima wrote: By the way, they updated the Spider-Man: Homecoming app, now titled Spider-Man: Far From Home app.

There's again Peter Parker's phone and now it shows new in-universe photos, voicemails, text messages along with old ones in archive sections. So it might give us daily timeline specifics maybe.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sonypictures.spidermanhomecoming&hl=en_US

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/spider-man-far-from-home/id1244334475

(Not sure about the AppStore one) Right, thank you. I kind of let the Homecoming one slide in the end but I think I still have the old images and clips in case we ever want to put them on the timeline. I'll try and have a look at this one properly, and if I can't then preserve the stuff from this version of the app as well for later.

Ant-Man and the Wasp (ProBot1227)
ProBot1227 wrote: Scott's laptop shows the date 4/30/2018. Yes, which is the earliest possible for the option for the film. It was just the way you mentioned it made it sound like someone had said that was the placement for the film, which it's not necessarily.

Captain America Timeline (ProBot1227, Protego Maxima, Elledy92)
ProBot1227 wrote: Well, actually, the 1948 timeline is both an alternative timeline and the main timeline. The Captain America they see at the end isn't the same one they saw leave, but he still experienced everything the main Earth-199999, Dimension-616 Steve Rogers has. The Captain America thry saw leave lived on an alternative universe that played out the exact same way. It's a loop of timelines. That's not possible, it can't be both the same and an alternate timeline, and he can't be the same man but also a different one.

The second part, I think I get what you're trying to say. That in every timeline a Steve Rogers goes back to the 1940s to live with Peggy, so the one we saw leave lived out his life in another timeline while the one we see at the end is, I guess you're saying, one from another timeline for whom the main timeline is an alternate timeline. But that's not possible, because you create an alternate timeline branching from an already existing one, you don't just shift into an already existing alternate timeline.

The only way that would work is if a timeline played out and then Steve from that timeline went back to the 1940s and created a branch timeline, and that branch timeline is the main MCU timeline we've followed, and that Steve from the previous timeline is the old man on the bench and the Steve from this timeline goes back to the 1940s and creates his own branch timeline from this branch timeline, the main MCU timeline.

But it would be very weird for that to be a different Steve, and if you're accepting that an older Steve has lived with Peggy through the MCU timeline the easier option is just the Markus and McFeely explanation rather than making up a third explanation. It also doesn't reconcile the two explanations since the Russos also say it is the same Steve, just jumped back to the main timeline in some mysterious way.

Protego Maxima wrote: Yeah, about that. First of all, I would like to say I am definetly defending the Russo statement in which they say alternate timeline thing. However, Steve HAD TO come out of Quantum Tunnel. Why? He could just jump to 2023 with his wrest device like they did when they went to 1970 from 2012, right? Answer is no. If Steve jump to 2023 without exiting the Quantum Tunnel, or wait 70+ years without using any kind of device (which makes more sense, given his age); he would be in a 2023 that is CHANGED.

I don't know if you watched Back to the Future series, but in 2nd movie they experience something similar.

So Steve had to come out of Quantum Tunnel to reach 2023 that wasn't changed (our timeline). The movie just made a mistake to make that scene more dramatic. Thank you, yes. That's what I was saying above, Steve would only travel to his 2023. To return to the main timeline, he has to instead of plugging in a date, hit the return button and come out of the Quantum Tunnel.

It's interesting that you support the Russo explanation nonetheless, though, when accepting this, you can take the Markus and McFeely explanation and then there's no "mistake" in the film.

Elledy92 wrote: The Back to the Future trilogy is not a very strong example of time-travel used well, mostly because it uses two different set of rules to explain time travel from the first movie to the second. The first movie imply that everything happens on just one timeline that can be altered and rewritten, and it is open to paradoxes. The second film introduces the concept of an alternate present create changing the past, that makes zero sense compared to what happen in the first film (by the same rule, Marty should've never start disappearing because what happened in that past only affected the alternate future).

But is still an amazing movie, nevertheless. While I know a lot about what happens in them, I haven't seen the Back to the Future films, so can't comment there.

Elledy92 wrote: Not necessarily. In the movie, is stated that Steve "blew right by his time stamp" meaning that he missed the rendevous that should brought him back to that specific time and place. That, however, doesn't necessarily mean that he could not travel there by his own with the suit, since we saw that a time-traveler can travel again freely in a new time and place just setting his own coordinates and having a pack of Pym Particles. The blowing by his time stamp is presumably just the fact that he didn't hit return, he instead hit "1945" (Russos)/"1948" (Markus and McFeely).

Myself and Protego Maxima have just addressed in the last few messages in response to Edward Zachary Sunrose that he cannot return to the main timeline through coordinates. When they set space and time coordinates, they are setting space and time coordinates, not "space, time, and this specific timeline please I would like to travel laterally to a different timeline while I'm jumping". Nothing in the film says that they could navigate the pipe system of timelines.

When they jump to 1970, they are jumping to the timeline they are currently in's 1970. It's just that because the split point of that timeline is 2012, that 1970 is shared with the main timeline.

If the situation had been, "Ah, but there's the Tesseract and some Pym Particles in Camp Lehigh in 2013," they'd have been stuck, because if they set coordinates for Camp Lehigh 2013, they would still be in this branch timeline and find that the Tesseract is not there because of Loki stealing it in 2012. They can't just decide to navigate around the timelines and go back to the main timeline's 2013, they would have to hit the return button back to the main timeline, then go for another trip back up the timeline to 2013, except they can't because they'd be out of Pym Particles.

To return to the main timeline, Steve would have to hit the return button not set space and time coordinates, which would simply shift him in his timeline.

Again, if forced to take the Russo explanation, there are ways to manipulate what the film says and take advantage of what it doesn't say to make it work. But it relies on the assumptions: But let's wrap this conversation up because it wasn't supposed to be opened again, and again, it's going nowhere.
 * For some reason Quantum Realm time travel always creates a branch timeline while White Monolith time travel doesn't.
 * Every jump in time creates a branch timeline, even though they don't say it.
 * Within the branch timelines there is a different type of branch created not by someone arriving through time but by the Infinity Stones being removed. These can be erased by returning the stones to their point of being taken, but Steve arriving through time, if every jump in time creates a branch, would still also create a split on the branches, one where the stone isn't returned and one where it is, so the Avengers are leaving behind some bad timelines despite promising they won't and that the science supports that they won't.
 * You in fact can choose to navigate the timelines/shift between them laterally in one jump despite it not being established in the film, and so Steve can go sideways and chooses to despite it being easier to just come out of the Quantum Tunnel.
 * For some reason Steve making a jump back to the main timeline instead of just returning to the main timeline does not create a branch timeline despite the fact that every jump apparently makes a new timeline (you would have to make weird assumptions about "Well I guess if you navigate the timelines rather than just moving in your timeline it does not in this case create an alternate timeline").