Thread:Marvelous 345678/@comment-27496405-20180723185324/@comment-26838855-20180924214853

Netflix Not All 100% Before Infinity War (Marvelous 345678)
Marvelous 345678 wrote: Sadly. I don't agree with you in this one 😂😂 However, time will say. But I will always follow your instincts without hesitation! I think that ideally, everything Netflix before Avengers 4 should fall before Infinity War. I just think that if one season of TV (The Punisher: Season 2, most likely) falls after Infinity War, it's not unacceptable. Any more than one season, then yes, maybe it should affect Infinity War ' s placement I guess.

But also, Infinity War could very well move anyway. I just think that because things are up in the air, and because Loeb was kind of cornered when he spoke, and because he previously said "for the most prat", it's a bit tricky to try and move TV and Infinity War in relation to each other when we don't know where Infinity War is and how possible the TV being after Infinity War is.

Thor: Ragnarok Movement (Marvelous 345678)
Marvelous 345678 wrote: Also. I have seen Ragnarok changes and I love them. But, I think that maybe (maybe) one day we will have to move them into really late December.

But as of now, really good work of yours. You rock in this! Thanks. Like I said I would, I just used the same values and adjusted the dates in the evidence. Sometimes, when I'm tweaking these values, I have to reverse-engineer to find the values that will give the result my gut tells me, and that's what I did to get the values right back when we agreed, with Infinity War in January, that Ragnarok took place in late October. So I trusted the values' validity and just adjusted.

Netflix Contract (Marvelous 345678)
Marvelous 345678 wrote: Actually. It is because of the contract. The contract expires in July 2019, curiously in the same month that Sony and Marvel's deal with Spider-Man expires and Fox-Disney's deal is finally completed. Disney has said that they don't intent to move the Shows into Disney Play, however, they haven't said that they will keep doing more shows in Netflix.

Netflix will have the rights of distribution for the first Netflix Shows but the productions one are from ABC Studios and Disney. Netflix only distributes it. Production goes to ABC, Disney will not give Netflix more products to earn their customers and make Disney Play a "possible" failure.

Disney will take away Netflix shows and move them wether to Hulu or ABC. But no way Netflix will release more shows, that is why we haven't had an announcement of more renewal. And probably won't.

Also I read somewhere, months ago, that once Disney mergers with Fox, Marvel will have a change within with Marvel TV answering to Kevin Feige and not Perlmutter. This also matches with Bob Iger's comments from Yesterday when he said that there were not going to be "Two Marvels" when he regarded to Marvel's rights for the X-Men and FF.

I am excited for the upcoming changes! Lets hope everything works out. OK, well I hope the shows continue and it all goes smoothly.

It'll be good to get the TV out from under Perlmutter.

Iron Fist: Season 2 Quality (Marvelous 345678)
Marvelous 345678 wrote: Hey. Did you like it? I did it. I rewatched IFS1 months ago and I didn't like it as the first time I saw it (remember my comments from March 2017 😂😂) However, this was a good improvements. 7/10 definitely. One of the best second seasons from Netflix.

Dying to see your notes on Iron Fist S2. Errr I thought it was fine. I thought it was much better than Season 1 but far from great - just good. Dialogue was much less cringey and whiny but nothing outstanding, action was much better but again nothing that stood out to me, some particularly good moments and a good ending but a slow start. There's less to talk about than Season 1 because I didn't find it remarkably good or bad, it was just "fine". But I'll take it over Season 1, definitely. Danny continues to be much better than he started out, but not particularly interesting and definitely the least interesting of the four Defenders. They fixed Joy's character after the bizarre sharp turn they gave her in Season 1, and I continue to really like Ward and Colleen. Misty was a fun addition, though I didn't think she was as good as she has been in previous seasons. Davos is kind of one-note and I know his dialogue is intentionally Shakespearean but it's still a bit silly, but he was serviceable. I don't know, I found everything perfectly fine and unremarkable, but the ending did make me want a Season 3. I would put it around the same quality as Jessica Jones: Season 2 towards the bottom of the Netflix seasons, but nonetheless, a big step up.

Daredevil: Season 3 Timeline (Marvelous 345678)
Marvelous 345678 wrote: Speaking of the Devil... Murdock just awakes at the beginning of Season 3. (Source) The cover does imply that it has been some time since The Defenders, not 6-12 months, but probably more. At least, it doesn't sound like it has been months. Sounds promising. Maybe the article doesn't literally mean he's only just waking now, because The Defenders ended with him waking - or maybe they do, and the scene from The Defenders, which is the very last scene so could be moved, is in fact set in 2018.

Iron Fist: Season 1 and The Defenders Adjustment (Marvelous 345678)
Marvelous 345678 wrote: And... What are you guys doing? I am thinking in a way to move Iron Fist S1 to June 2016 and The Defenders to October 2016. Xd Just in case. Ever since Iron Fist: Season 1 and The Defenders: Season 1 came out, it's not quite sat comfortably with me, because of the fact that there's no date evidence placing Iron Fist: Season 1 in February-March (the dates given are contradictory, but are all June and July from filming dates), and the only date in The Defenders: Season 1 is "11/7/2016" on Jessica's laptop. Plus, the weather's off - winter in December 2015 at the end of Daredevil: Season 2, spring/summer-like in February 2016 in Iron Fist: Season 1, but then back to fall/autumn-heading-into-winter or winter-heading-into-spring weather in The Defenders: Season 1, basically meaning the weather got warm too early at the end of winter, but then as it was supposed to get warm it then got cold again too late, before finally getting to summer.

However, despite the numerous times I have had doubts over the placement, I've nonetheless each time come to the conclusion that this is still the best placement.

The "11/7/2016" is invalidated by The Punisher: Season 1. Because if what is currently dated to May 5th is in fact November 7th as that date would suggest, then what is currently May 9th is in fact November 11th. May 9th/November 11th is the destruction of Midland Circle, the end of the main events of The Defenders. However, November 11th is also the day Karen enters The Punisher, so there is a clash with her character. She would be in two places at once, and even if, somehow, one day could be fudged either way (which I'm fairly sure it couldn't be), she would still be massively caught up in mourning in the following days.

So that leaves no evidence in The Defenders for which dates specifically that it takes place. However, Charlie Cox repeatedly told us it's about 6 months since Daredevil: Season 2 - suggesting around May or June 2016. A bit late for the weather shown. Well, we also know it's about 2 months since Iron Fist: Season 1. It's said twice in The Defenders to be "months" since those events, and Finn Jones and Jessica Henwick's comments of "several months", "1 month", "about 2 months", and "a couple of months" overall tell us it's about 2 months on.

Iron Fist: Season 1 has a phone date and the Hand drug trafficking map dates placing it in July 2016 (there is also the newspaper saying Danny is "25", and there's the "June 6" phone date in Episode 1 but it doesn't actually fit with the July dates, nor does it make sense as a prop - it is a screenshot, not a webpage, and has a morning time, when it's clearly night), which would suggest The Defenders: Season 1 is around September 2016. Quite early for the weather shown. However, according to my Chinese friend, this, this, this, this, and this, as well as the lion and dragon dances and the monkey king mask, the parade shown in Snow Gives Way is Chinese New Year, albeit a poor representation of it. And this would match with it ending on March 1, 2016, 2 months before The Defenders: Season 1 in May 2016 - 6 months after Elektra's death, matching Charlie Cox's comment. And early May, while really pushing it, is still just about manageable.

I don't like the timeline placements for those two shows, but I don't like any placements for them.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: Okay for Iron Fist Season 1 evidence, just in case:
 * Dragon Boat Festival it is the most likely event to happen in New York City during Spring, as it was featured on Snow Gives Way on Iron Fist S1 E1. It was held on June 9, and coincides with the time of shooting for the Season around June 2016, we had a prop of June 6 in the first episode and migth collide with that. More info in here

Again. Just in case we might need to move The Defenders a bit later in the year in order to prepare for Daredevil S3 inconsistencies. The Dragon Boat Festival apparently isn't celebrated in the same fashion as Chinese New Year, and wouldn't look like this parade. But I don't know, if absolutely necessary and things do have to change, we can assume it's just a random parade. Not ideal though.

The "June 8" phone date is very unreliable. The prop is, itself, a mistake. The prop department have made an image to look like a webpage and saved it to the iPhone so they can use it in the shot, making it all look just like Big Al has found the webpage. But someone, presumably the actor, has tapped the screen and the image information has come up, as it does on an iPhone - revealing that it is an image, and not a webpage. A very similar thing happened just 2 months prior in Sherlock: Series 4. As well as this, it says "June 8 9:33AM" - presumably the image was completed by/saved onto the phone by the prop department on June 8, 2016 at 9:33AM, which is why it says that. It's an out-of-universe date. And the phone contains yet another mistake - it says the current time is "10:22AM", when it is clearly night. So I put very little weight into that prop, because it contains two objective mistakes, not just timeline ones, and the date given is just a part of a mistake. The only in-universe explanation for why it is an image and not a webpage is that Big Al Googled it himself in the past and screenshot the webpage, and when Danny asks him, despite saying he's looking it up, he actually remembers that he looked it up himself in the past and finds the screenshot to show Danny. That's clearly not what's happening, but it's the only way of explaining away that mistake. And because that's the only way that you can possibly take that phone date into account in-universe, it would only mean that Big Al Googled it last June 8th at 9:33AM, so doesn't bear any significance to the timeline anyway.

I guess Big Al just also has his phone time incorrectly programmed.

Iron Fist: Season 2 Flashback Notes (CirUmeUela)
CirUmeUela wrote: Yeah BEJT, I read your Luke Cage S2 placements and put them on my timeline, thanks for that.

Here are my Iron Fist S2 flashback notes. As for the rest of the season, are we thinking it's November 2017?

Iron Fist 2.10: A Duel of Iron 0:00-1:24 ''After Danny is found from the crash? But the actor is different and looks like a different age. The hair is even different length and color. Maybe this is a different occasion? 2002-2004?''

Young Davos helps take care of a cold Danny, later Danny shows Davos how to make a paper airplane

Iron Fist 2.05: Heart of the Dragon 0:48-2:10 ''This seems to be shortly after the scene listed above, maybe a week to a month later? Again 2002-2004?'' Young Danny and Davos talk about the Iron Fist, Davos’s mother says Davos will be it and hits his knuckles with a stick

Iron Fist 2.02: The City's Not For Burning 13:06-14:58, 24:48-27:32, 45:02-47:12 March 2015?, a few weeks before Danny gets the Iron Fist, to allow for time to heal from the cuts and bruises

Danny and Davos fight for the Iron Fist, Danny wins the right to face Shou-Lao

Iron Fist 2.05: Heart of the Dragon 15:06-17:16 ''March 2015? The day after the fight for the right to face Shou-Lao'' After his defeat at the hands of Danny, Davos’s mother comes to him and tells him he is a disappointment

Iron Fist 2.10: A Duel of Iron 1:24-2:02 March 27th, Right after Davos fins Danny outside the cave from season 1

Davos helps Danny back to K’un L’un after facing the dragon, Danny lights up his fist

Iron Fist 2.05: Heart of the Dragon 26:34-29:18 ''February, 2016? A little before Danny shows up in New York?''

Shortly after Danny abandons K’un L’un with the Iron Fist, Davos tells his mother through the door that he will make her proud

Iron Fist 2.07: Morning of the Mindstorm 32:26-33:28 Before Age of Ultron because Sokovia is still intact, 2010-2014?

Mary Walker sits in a cell in Sokovia, she changes from Walker to Mary as the rain falls and lightning flashes

Iron Fist 2.08: Citadel on the Edge of Vengeance 12:00-13:15 Before Age of Ultron, maybe several months after the scene listed above, 2010-2014?

Mary Walker wakes up in Sokovia out of the underground cell, not knowing how she got there I saw someone on The Comic Board mention that the credits of Episode 10 say they're "12" in that flashback - I'll check when I finish my rewatch. As for the Episode 5 flashback though, those credits do specify that both characters are "13". So with Danny born April 1, 1991, that would make it around September/October 2004-ish. There might be some slight deviation from that (likely placing it a month or two earlier) based on the actors' ages and based on the fact that Davos is older than Danny so the midpoint of the time when they were both 13 is earlier than just the midpoint of when Danny is 13. I'll calculate that exactly at some point, but roughly September 2004. If the Episode 10 credits do say they're 12 in the flashback for that, it would mean about September 2003.

You're right about the fact that the fight between Davos and Danny should be a little while before the trial of Shou-Lao. I hadn't considered the healing, but you're right about that - but also, despite the fact that it's played like it's only a day or two before the trial, Danny's hair is his short Season 2 hair and not the slightly longer, curly Season 1 hair he was shown to have had after fighting Shou-Lao in the Season 1 flashbacks. So his hair has to grow between the fight and the trial.

The hair also becomes a problem with the other flashback around the trial - when Davos helps Danny. It is seemingly straight after the Season 1 flashback, but in the Season 1 flashback he had his Season 1 hair and in the Season 2 flashback he has his Season 1 hair. I don't see any way of placing it more than a few minutes after the Season 1 flashback, so I guess Danny just... had a quick haircut in between...

Finally, Walker in Sokovia. I reckon she got free around 2013. I don't think it would be too much of a problem if it were post-Age of Ultron in terms of the country being intact, because it wasn't the whole country that got destroyed. But I do think it does take place pre-Age of Ultron, because Edmonds says, "This happened years ago. Why is it so present?", suggesting it's not something he would expect to still be at the forefront of Mary/Walker's mind. He wouldn't be so surprised if it were as recent as 2¾ years ago. So I'm guessing she was freed about 5 years ago, so early 2013. And since she was there for 22 months, that would mean she was there from around Spring 2011 to early 2013. So I guess ultimately, that would mean that the best guess for when the memories of Sokovia take place would be in the middle of her time there, making it around February-March 2012?

Iron Fist: Season 2 Placement (CirUmeUela, Marvelous 345678)
CirUmeUela wrote: As for the rest of the season, are we thinking it's November 2017? Marvelous 345678 wrote: Nop. For the reasons I listed above a few weeks ago, S2 happens from January to February 2018. Yeah. The season ends soon before "Spring Festival" in Chinatown, which is related to Lunar New Year, in February. There's also a "1/2/2018" tablet date in Episode 2. It remains to be seen (once I've finished the final 3 episodes of notes) whether that is compatible with the early February ending to the season or not, but yeah, early 2018.

If it is compatible, that means the season starts at like 2AM on January 1, 2018. It's a bit weird that no one mentions it being New Year's Day, but it's just about understandable - it's not like if they had crossed midnight of the New Year and yet no one mentioned it.

The Defenders Hope (Mrmichaelt)
Mrmichaelt wrote: Loeb just hinted a Defenders season 2 isn't off the table, they're just not working on on now, and he even hinted not to expect the same roster if a 2nd season gets made. That's good! Yeah, there's been several mentions in the last year of there being no plans for a second season and I'd accepted that, so it's good to find out that the Facebook change isn't a further development in the situation, and we're still where we were. Plus this is the first mention of actual hope for the show - before it was more "It's not definitely done but could well be", and this is them actually saying "It's definitely not cancelled and we've had thoughts about the show's future". Hopefully we'll see something one day.

S.H.I.E.L.D. in the 1990s (Mrmichaelt)
Mrmichaelt wrote: You're welcome, and indeed. That's my concern going into this movie. But I'm so excited about the other stuff. And so much hypothetical questions like who the Director might be -- since we're post-Stark murder. Is Carter the sole Director? Did she retire? Could be be GW Bridge or Pierce or someone else? I wonder if G.W. Bridge might be a Fox character, because there was some speculation that Terry Crews was playing him in Deadpool 2 (it turned out to actually be Bedlam, but I wonder if the people who speculated it had checked and found out that he was a Fox character). If he is, he can't be director. But anyway, yeah, I wonder who it is - it would be nice to know the full list of S.H.I.E.L.D. directors, and there is a gap between the founders and Fury, where we don't know. It could maybe even be Talos - I saw somewhere that he is Fury's boss, so it's possible he's the director. Peggy would be in her 70s, she'd probably have retired - at least retired being a director. But maybe not. Pierce was in his 70s and still held a job as authoritative as director of S.H.I.E.L.D., and Peggy's resilient and hardworking.

Netflix Addressing the Snap (Mrmichaelt)
Mrmichaelt wrote: At this point, I'd only expect a passing line of something to the effect of "like when all those people vanished then came back?" Imagine if it just becomes referred to as "the latest incident"... Yeah, we'll see. It's possible that with the Disney Play changes, there might be a bit more TV-film cohesion and better referencing. But obviously it also depends on how things get resolved.

Captain Marvel (Mrmichaelt)
Mrmichaelt wrote: Well, there was a more recent article, where they changed their it's in the 1990s stance to it's in the mid-90s stance so it could still work as 1996. Ah OK cool thanks, I'm assuming they got that info from Marvel. Sounds overall like maybe 1995. A bit later than expected but cool. It's not the "early" '90s like Feige initially said (1995 is actually in the second half of the decade, as New Year 1994-1995 is the midpoint of the decade), but it does actually fit with the "25 years" statement because as I explained in July, technically the wording of that statement would, when calculated, suggest around early 1995. It's just that Feige's comment probably wasn't as thought-through as its technical meeting, so the 25 years mention was likely just a slight overstatement. I guess by 2019 thought it will be 24 years, so it's close enough.

Maurice.136 wrote: Dang, I was hoping it could take place in the year of 1990. Any reason why? Is it when you were born or something?

Raven Metzner AMA (CirUmeUela, Mrmichaelt, Edward Zachary Sunrose)
CirUmeUela wrote: M. Raven Metzner, showrunner for Iron Fist Season 2, had two AMA's recently, one on Reddit and then Discord. I asked him about the timeframe of when those flashbacks in Sokovia were but he just said he would like to answer those questions in a season 3. Here are some highlights from it. Awesome, thanks for asking him the question. Just a bit of a shame he didn't specifically answer, but still, good of him to answer at all.

As mentioned above, I don't think that Sokovia itself means it has to be pre-Age of Ultron, but I think that the evidence just happens to place it earlier than Age of Ultron anyway.

Mrmichaelt wrote: I always miss these AMA sessions so thanks for asking him. Too bad he didn't say more. I've seen a popular theory it was the team Zemo was on. I was wondering if they're going to address Mary's past in a season 3 and/or are they putting her on a collision course with Daredevil in his series. The latter is a matter of time I guess if they get to a 4th or 5th season. I saw that theory about Zemo's group, and while I don't think it's the intention, I love the idea!

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: The Season Finale seemed to imply her relying on Joy from now on, which I don't think would carry over into Daredevil, as I don't see any way for Joy and Matt, Karen or Foggy to cross paths. Maybe Daredevil: Season 4 or 5, as Mrmichaelt said. You never know. I think she's a Daredevil character in the comics? And if they have no The Defenders plans at the moment, it would be nice to do more small crossovers.

Personal Note
I moved in at university yesterday. It's very nerve-racking and a big change in my life, and it will take me some time to settle in, but it seems I will still be able to work here and be very much present.

I will post the Iron Fist notes here as soon as people have been able to reply to this, giving the notes some space on the thread without getting caught up in conversation.