Thread:SwagMasterDbl/@comment-29362220-20171207164550/@comment-26838855-20180120171935

The Wikia Editor wrote: BEJT wrote:

Personally, I don't really want anything like that, for the same reason I don't want Tom Holland in Venom or a bridge between the X-Men Universe and the MCU, because I don't like the idea of Sony and/or Fox dirtying, for lack of a better word, the MCU. The X-Men Universe and Sony-only Spider-Man films are both very much a mixed bag, and have nothing to do with Marvel Studios and their canon, and something about the idea of a muddied canon and all that makes me uncomfortable. Probably just my OCD. To be fair, the idea behind such a crossover is that the Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield Spider-Men team up with Tom Holland Spider-Man in order to combat some kind of multiversal threat that's targeting them. They would still obviously be from different universes.

The MCU X-Men are definitely gonna be a rebooted version, since the events of the X-Men movies are not compatible with the MCU, there's no way to integrate stuff like Apocalypse attacking the world at large in the 80s without anyone ever bringing it up until now (especially when you consider that SHIELD didn't even believe that telepathy was real at the time of the first season of the show).

Sony's Marvel Universe is a far more tricky thing. People at Sony have insisted that it's in the same world as (or at least "adjunct" to) the MCU. Marvel, however, have remained mostly tight-lipped on the matter. I'm guessing it's gonna depend on the reception Venom will get. If it turns out to be good, Marvel can casually accept it (or at least continue remaining ambiguous), if it's bad, they can disown it. Yeah, no, I'm 10000% aware it would be different universes, but that is what I meant by my original message - I still wouldn't be particularly comfortable with it being a different universe if some sort of interdimensional thing happened and a bridge were made between the MCU and another Marvel franchise. I really like the MCU being completely divorced of the other stuff. Supergirl is a show that exists on its own Earth, but crosses over with Arrow, The Flash, and DC's Legends of Tomorrow, and is very much part of that group of shows - I don't want the X-Men or Spider-Man stuff by Fox and Sony to be lumped in and the canon become murky. Just my OCD, but yeah, not a fan of that idea.

Also, there was no way I ever thought that they would fold the X-Men continuity into the MCU, didn't even cross my mind - but there have been people suggesting "don't reboot it, just do an interdimensional thing and connect them". I wouldn't be a fan of that. Much rather they just Spider-Man-style reboot them into the MCU.

A lot remains to be seen with Venom, but I hope it's its own thing. I absolutely agree with people that a Venom film shouldn't be attempted without Spider-Man - but I don't think that means they should add Spider-Man, it's that I think if they want to do a Venom film they just shouldn't be prematurely attempting this on their own instead of waiting to partner with Marvel in a few years and do a proper MCU Venom thing. But since they're powering ahead, of course I hope it's good, but I don't want it to have anything to do with the MCU.

BardicFire wrote: OOOOHHHH BOI

We got some real time line shenanigans out of this episode of SHIELD.

looks like right now we've got potentially 2 timelines that weave together, which I'm currently dubbing Pre-Monolith, and Post-Return


 * Pre-Monolith

- Daisy destroys Earth, the Zephyr escapes to the Lighthouse with most of SHIELD and Robin

- Fitz-Simmons work on a solution, Mack dies, May raises Robin, Yo-Yo fights Kree

- Robin escapes the Lighthouse to the Zephyr and grows old there

- Pre-Monolith timeline BECOMES Monolith Timeline when SHIELD arrive in Robins future


 * Post-Return

- someone sets up Enoch, the Monolith, and his team. I'm guessing that after SHIELD somehow return to the past, they go back even earlier and set up Past-Enoch. Enoch has gotta keep this info on the down-low to Past-Fitz

- Enoch captures Past-SHIELD, Past-Fitz does his thing, once they leave SHIELD can stop "hiding" in the past I guess?

IDK they are getting really really time shenanigans with this. That's the idea I was getting for most of the episode, but at the end, I got a different impression. I started to think that instead, it's:
 * May 2017 - The team are sent to the future. Fitz stays behind.
 * November 2017 - Fitz goes into cryo-freeze.
 * October 2091 - Fitz wakes up after 74 years. The team arrive in the future.
 * October 2091 - May is told that she raised Robin. Voss is worried that if the team return to the 2010s, then they are allowing Daisy to destroy the world. The team manage to find a way back to the present day.
 * c. Early 2018 - The team arrive, back in Earth, present day.
 * c. Early 2018 - Daisy seemingly destroys Earth.
 * 2018 - "2018" scene.
 * 2022 - "2022" scenes. The team decide to try to change the future.
 * 2020s - May tells Robin that when she is older, she will tell her how to get back home, having experienced it herself when she was in 2091, but with Robin still several decades from that herself.

And so when it's strung out in a linear fashion.
 * May 2017 - The team are sent to the future. Fitz stays behind.
 * November 2017 - Fitz goes into cryo-freeze.
 * c. Early 2018 - The team arrive, back in Earth, present day. (Fitz is in two places at once, a version of him a few days younger being also in cryo-freeze in space.)
 * c. Early 2018 - Daisy seemingly destroys Earth.
 * 2018 - "2018" scene.
 * 2022 - "2022" scenes. The team decide to try to change the future.
 * 2020s - May tells Robin that when she is older, she will tell her how to get back home, having experienced it herself when she was in 2091, but with Robin still several decades from that herself.
 * October 2091 - Fitz wakes up after 74 years. The team arrive in the future.
 * October 2091 - May is told that she raised Robin. Voss is worried that if the team return to the 2010s, then they are allowing Daisy to destroy the world. The team manage to find a way back to the present day.

Also, Robin is a big problem.

Spacetime, set in April 2016: "He was a teacher well-liked, but he walked out on her and their 18-month-old daughter in July." "Walked out? Why?" "It drove him crazy." "When did it start?" "It was a Sunday. We'd just gotten home from the farmer's market, and it started to pour. Charles ran out to the yard to bring our daughter's toys inside. And I hear him howl like he hurt himself. I ran out and found him on the ground covered with some kind of crust." Charles underwent Terrigenesis a little while before he left, meaning that has to be May 2015 or later, after the Terrigen outbreak. He then left in a "July", presumably the most recent July before Spacetime due to the way it is said, which would make it July 2015 - yup, that matches, it's the only possible July after the Terrigen outbreak. So, Charles walked out in July 2015, leaving 18-month-old Robin. If it were July 1, 2015, that would mean she were born between December 2, 2013 and January 1, 2014. If it were July 31, 2015, that would mean that she were born between January 1, 2014 and January 31, 2014. So, Robin was definitely born between December 2, 2013 and January 31, 2014. Let's say about January 1, 2014 then.

We then see her in December 2016, and she should be about 2y11.5m old. Yeah, that matches, she looks about that old.

We then see her in November 2017, and she should be about 3y10.5m old. Maximum 3y11.5m. Problem. She looks about minimum 5. Actress is 8. But if really absolutely necessary, we can assume she's quite old-looking/acting for her age, and her maturity comes from her powers. The episode itself reaffirms that it is indeed no later than 2017.

We see her in 2018, when she should be 4. But again, she looks at least 5, and the actress is 8 - the character is credited as being 7.

We see her in 2022, when she should be 8. But she looks at least 9/10, and is credited as being 12. Actress is 11, birthday's in December so probably filmed when she was 10 going on 11.

We see her in 2091, when she should be 77. Actress is 62, but is playing an older character, and yeah, it works. No credited age.

If Robin is "7" in "2018" and "12" in "2022", that would mean she had to be born in 2010. Probably January-ish, then we assume that the 2018 scene is earlier in January, so she's about to turn 8, and then the 2022 scene is after her birthday. But that would mean the July in which Charles walked out, when she was 18 months old, would be July 2011, which is way before the Terrigen gene spread, and obviously Age of Ultron and Season 2 and everything cannot be moved back 4 years, I needn't explain why.

Even if you were to assume that somehow, Charles was exposed to Terrigen before the outbreak in July 2011, and "He was a teacher well-liked, but he walked out on her and their 18-month-old daughter in July," said in April 2016, actually refers to a July 5 years ago and not the last July, that would still then mean that in December 2016, Robin is 6y11.5m, when she looks no more than 3 or 4.

Robin ages like 5 years in the space of 1 year. Push Season 3 and its epilogue and everything back 4 years to make it work, thus meaning Civil War is 2012? - again, ridiculous, of course.

The timeline won't change because of her, we just need to decide one way or another when her date of birth is. I don't get credits at the end of the episode when I watch, so I don't know if she's officially credited as "7-year-old Robin" and "12-year-old Robin", but all I've seen that from is the press release and IMDb (which I think just came from that press release information). In-universe dialogue comes first.

The best compromise I can think of for now is "18-month-old" is being used to mean 1½, not quite 2. Charles walked out as early as possible - July 1, 2015, and Robin's 2nd birthday was just after, thus making her born in early July 2013. This makes her 3y5m in Ascension, still plausible, 4y4m in Rewind, a bit more plausible, and then 4ish and 9ish in the 2018 and 2022 scenes, which are again more plausible in terms of the actors' ages, just still fall 3 years short of these apparent credited ages.