Thread:Marvelus/@comment-27496405-20190519011243/@comment-26838855-20190519193616

Timeline Discussion (Marvelus)
Marvelus wrote: One more to go. Why, what happens at 13?😳

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (Mrmichaelt, Master Tej)
Mrmichaelt wrote: RE: AOS S6 E2 Yes, Yo-Yo. My mistake. But one more thing - unless it was a fake cover, there's also the magazine Snowflake flips through in the truck that they stole from the convenience store. Not sure if there was a date anywhere on it. Didn't notice any dates there but maybe.

Master Tej wrote: Longtime lurker here, pretty invested into the MCU and particularly continuity and timeline stuff. I though I'd jump in on the discussion with my 2 cents about where AoS S6 is in the timeline.

So, the announcement by the showrunners that basically amounted to "haHA nope we ain't following the films anymore and we're not even gonna offer an explanation why!" honestly really infuriated me. You can't create a connected universe that's really closely woven and then just. . . not do that all of the sudden.

Then I got thinking, specifically about the end of S5. Conventional wisdom dictates that S5 takes place directly before Infinity War for two reasons, yes? One, Tony Caine asks Daisy "Have you seen all this weird stuff happening in New York?" and two, many characters discuss Thanos' impending arrival on Earth. Plus, as I recall, Word of God was that the show's ending few episodes took place more or less concurrent to the movie. However, the beginning of S6 really just drives at the idea that we're pre-Snap. As pointed out previously, the chance that EVERY character would have survived is incredibly small, and even if they ALL survived the Snap, there's no way nobody would be talking about it. I know the Agents have been through a lot, but half the world disappearing? Nobody's prepared for that emotionally - Endgame ' s first half shows us that.

The last direct point of contact between AoS and the main MCU timeline, as I recall, was the integration of the Sokovia Accords back in S3, so in 2016. S4 takes place a few months later after Daisy has been on the run as Quake, and then all of S5 happens after that, with S6 set a year later. Forgive me for not recalling the exact amount of time elapsed during each season, but is it possible that we truly are still pre-Snap in AoS?

Think about it - could S4 take place largely in late summer of 2016? (a few months after the Sokovia Accords) S5 picks up directly afterwards and half of it takes place in the future, so what if the Agents returned not long after they left, placing them in early 2017? The only problem with this I can think of is that Fitz was detained for a few months, but if it was only, like, 2 months, then early 2017 still works. Then S5's second half takes place in early 2017, and that bounces us to a year later in early 2018 for S6, which is still pre-Snap.

Of course, that still leaves the references to IW at the end of AoS S5 hanging, but "weird stuff in New York" could be a lot of different things, including the events of any of the Netflix shows. Thanos was a cosmically known, very dangerous entity. Given that it was established that the Confederacy was really just trying to take advantage of HYDRA, perhaps their hand-wringing of "Thanos is on his way!" was really just sensational to make the humans afraid and more likely to comply, and Thanos, in reality, was still a good ways off from coming to Earth.

I'm pretty prepared for you fine people to come back with a couple good reasons this explanation is flawed, so I'm partially posting this hypothetical just so that I can know why it doesn't work. In conclusion, if it's not too much trouble, please let me know the ways in which I'm wrong. You all are awesome for the continuity work you do in this universe, and it's really, really disappointing and honestly a little gross that the showrunners of AoS have basically said "do the work for us.

- Master Tej - Season 3 ends in June 2016, with the epilogue "6 months later" in December 2016.

Season 4 explicitly takes place in March-May 2017 due to Hope's birthday (see here for the evidence), and that fits as "6 months" after Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot, which we know takes place between Season 3 and its epilogue and at least "few months" after Civil War (Mace became the Patriot a few months after Civil War).

Season 5 shows the 6.5 months Fitz then spent in prison, up to late November 2017. The agents then return from the future after that, specifically in December 2017 (see here for the evidence).

A few months later, Season 5 ends simultaneously with Infinity War. I would agree with you that the New York line alone is not inflexible, but the fact that the follow-up episodes specifically talk about how Thanos has already started attacking Earth and show the WHiH news coverage of the Attack on Greenwich Village, it's explicit (plus confirmed by the showrunners).

And regardless, the end of Season 5 is explicitly early 2018 (in The Last Day it shows events from the same day as the end of Season 5, just the original timeline, and says "Zephyr One 2018", it's also "2 years" since 2016 and "4 years" since 2014, just a few months after December 2018), and Infinity War is very very firmly the first half of 2018 (see here for that evidence).

There's no avoiding it, Season 5 ends simultaneous with Infinity War, and Season 6, set 13 months later, is during the Snap period. The ten returning characters so far (eleven once Deke shows up) just all survived, however unlikely that is, and in the 13 months the agents have had to move on to face the new threats.

I justify a few things in my head as being Snap-related. The new bunch of agents perhaps to fill the gaps left behind, and Marcus' husband having died what seems like about a year-ish ago. He doesn't mention how and it's been written like he died from cancer or something, but if you watch it with the Snap in mind, you can see how it could be construed as an unspoken understanding between the characters that they lost loved ones 13 months ago.

Runaways (Marvelus)
Marvelus wrote: Marvelus' crazy theory.

In Runaways, we see how Chase is an adult (a few years older, approximately 5) in Victor's time machine. What if in Season 3 or 4 the Snap takes place in the show. And all of the Runaways but Chase get dusted. This will allow Chase to grow old and the rest of the team not and will allow them to continue the show. What do you think? That would be pretty dope Probably not the intention, but I like the idea.

The Punisher: Season 2 (additional)
Just so you know guys, I went back and finished the The Punisher: Season 2 notes. Here's the conclusion (ignore the A1, A2 etc., that's to do with earlier parts of the notes):

BEJT wrote: Saturday, April 28, 2018 = A1 Episode 1 beginning to minute 46ish (beginning to minute 2ish, minute 2ish to minute 45ish flashbacks to day before, minute 45ish to minute 46ish). Sunday, April 29, 2018 = A2 Episode 1 minute 46ish to end. Episode 2 beginning to end. Episode 3 beginning to minute 7ish. Monday, April 30, 2018 = A3 Episode 3 minute 7ish to end. Tuesday, May 1, 2018 = A4 Episode 4 beginning to minute 29ish. Wednesday, May 2, 2018 = A5 Episode 4 minute 29ish to end. Episode 5 beginning to minute 10ish. Thursday, May 3, 2018 = A6 Episode 5 minute 10ish to end. Friday, May 4, 2018 = A7 Episode 6 beginning to minute 17ish. Saturday, May 5, 2018 = B1 Episode 6 minute 17ish to minute 21ish. Sunday, May 6, 2018 = C1 Episode 6 minute 21ish to minute 22ish. Monday, May 7, 2018 = D1 Episode 6 minute 22ish to minute 26ish. Tuesday, May 8, 2018 = D2 Episode 6 minute 26ish to end. Episode 7 beginning to minute 9ish. Wednesday, May 9, 2018 = E1 + F1 + G1 + H1 + I1 Episode 7 minute 9ish to minute 21ish. Thursday, May 10, 2018 = J1 + K1 Episode 7 minute 21ish to minute 28ish. Friday, May 11, 2018 = K2 Episode 7 minute 28ish to end. Episode 8 beginning to end. Saturday, May 12, 2018 = K3 + L1 + M1 Episode 9 beginning to minute 10ish. Sunday, May 13, 2018 = N1 Episode 9 minute 10ish to end. Monday, May 14, 2018 = N2 Episode 10 beginning to minute 9ish. Tuesday, May 15, 2018 = N3 Episode 10 minute 9ish to end. Episode 11 beginning to end. Episode 12 beginning to end. Episode 13 beginning to minute 9ish. Wednesday, May 16, 2018 = N4 + O1 Episode 13 minute 9ish to minute 49ish. Thursday, May 17, 2018 = P1 Episode 13 minute 49ish to minute 53ish. Friday, August 17, 2018 = Q1 Episode 13 minute 53ish to end. I will write up the updated version of the 2018 problem for you guys to assess where we're at.

Andre's Powers (additional)
I thought I'd write to you guys to say that I think I've worked out Andre's powers, because it relates to the timeline notes write-ups. I got really confused in Episode 8 with whether Tyrone is in a vision world like Tandy in Episode 7 or if he's in the real world.

I think when Andre touches someone, he basically gets a set of records for that person, chronicling their best hopes and worst despairs. Once he has that collection, he has some control over the person's head. If he doesn't remain in contact with them, while he's mentally in the record shop part of the cloak's dimension he can "put a record on" and while the person continues to be in the normal real world, they start thinking and seeing things that aren't the way things really are - so Tyrone started to think Tandy doesn't care about him, and then when Mayhem changed the record, he saw the ballerinas and the ambulances that weren't really there.

However, if Andre remains in contact with the person, like with Tandy, he can properly induce their mind into a dream world while they're unconscious - the worlds of the hopes/despairs from the records.

Usually he is entirely in control. He touches someone and his mind goes to the cloak's dimension alone. However, when he touches Chantelle, due to her spiritual control she manages to follow him into the cloak's dimension.

When Tandy is breaking out of his control, she briefly gets halfway out - if layer 1 is the real world, layer 2 is the cloak's dimension, and layer 3 the vision worlds, she manages to break out from 3 into 2, but he forces her back into layer 3 when she tries to destroy the record (she thinks she's broken out fully into layer 1, but she's back in layer 3, where he "kills" Tyrone).

And they definitely cannot be actual alternate realities, the way Tandy breaks out of consciousness in them and moves between them and slips in and out and they remix and mix around and sometimes are only just enough to mess with someone's mind. It's purely vision stuff to do with the cloak's dimension.

Andre having some control over minds (which matches what Tyrone says about how he messed with his head) also would link to how he kills Chantelle. When he stops the heartbeat record, he's in some way affecting her real world head to stop functioning.