Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26838855-20190803131136/@comment-26838855-20200102014839

Runaways SPOILERS (DaenerysTheMadKhal58, Marvelus, Aricco, Shabook)
Now that I've finished Runaways: Season 3, I can revisit spoiler discussion posts. DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: So the last episode begins in the summer of 2022 given the school schedule shown (actually, it begins in 2028 but it's only a small scene), and it's the 3rd year anniversary of Gert's death, which means the events of episodes 6-9 need to happen in the summer of 2019. So yeah, not sure what needs to happen to make that work. OK, I'm going to copy over what I've said in my rough notes above:
 * So, Karolina has a Summer 2022 timetable up. It includes "English Lit 301", the "301" suggesting it's a 3rd year course. Karolina was 16-going-on-17 in Season 2, so should be a junior. Chase said he was a year from college in Season 1 which would suggest they're seniors, but as we discussed when Season 2 threw some curveballs regarding their ages, it basically overall was confirmed that they're juniors. So, they should graduate almost a year after where we left off in 3,9. This would mean that Karolina should indeed be finishing 3rd year around 2022. However, Karolina says in 3,6 that they missed graduation during their time in the Dark Dimension. But that just doesn't make sense, as previously mentioned - plus it's again been said that they're 16 around the beginning of Season 3. So, either Karolina was referring to missing the year-above's graduate, or some of them planning on graduating early. Regardless, they at least missed months of education. Whatever the case, there's just no way Karolina graduated before Spring 2019.
 * However, we then have them mention that it's been 3 years exactly since 3,9. So, it should be Summer 2021, not Summer 2022. I like Mrmichaelt's justification that it's Karolina planning ahead. A whole 8+ months might be a bit of a stretch of an assumption (if we assume summer term at least starts in April), but considering it seems to be a third year course and we've established that third year should be the 2021-2022 academic year anyway, that (unintentionally, on their part) helps us justify it as such. So, assume it's indeed set in August 2021.
 * The fact they have clearly just mistakenly placed the season in Summer 2019 instead of Summer 2018 at least again helps support Season 1 being December, Season 2 December-January. Even though we're ignoring the 2022 prop as being relevant, the original intent behind it still somewhat helps.

Marvelus wrote: Seeing Episode 6 carefully, there is wiggle room to be post Snap though (unlike JJ Season 3), this is the speculation type that will remain off pages - of course - but a little fun to speculate, right?

In Episode 6, up to minute 8, when they go out to find out what has happened this is like Late August 2018, 3 months after the Snap. Apparently the Wizard phones made by Morgan le Fay kind of confirms they control people, they are like a distraction, nice way to get distracted after half population is dead, right? They are all distracted and do not have to mention anything to the Runaways.

Aside from all the thing of Jonah and the Gibborim, Leslie Dean says in minute 11 to Karolian that RECENT events have shown her that in the Universe there is a lot of stuff they do not understand and there is nothing wrong in seeking answers for them. The guy Max who falls in love with Gert says that the phones are for all people in Los Angeles, especially kids who are homeless or parentsless, maybe the Snap?

Why didn't the Runaways and some PRIDE members disappear while trapped in the Dark Dimension? Well, there is this theory that Thanos needed the 6 stones because each of them had a purpose in wiping out the Universe, there is no time in the Dark Dimension, thus that might have just protected them. I agree that the Corvus phones do help explain people not talking about it - though not everyone has them. And we still have the problem of eleven or twenty-one susceptible characters surviving, depending on whether the Dark Dimension protects you or not. I had that idea about the Dark Dimension's time as well, but I'm not sure.

I'll again copy over from my notes above from Episode 5 and 8 for whoever hasn't seen. Episode 5: Episode 8:
 * The Dark Dimension thing is weird. It's nothing like Dormammu's Dark Dimension, yet it must be due to Nico's eyes. While Ant-Man wasn't protected by the Quantum Realm, that realm is still in time. The Dark Dimension is specifically not in time in Doctor Strange, so it's hard to see how the Snap could occur. But this section, or whatever it is, of the Dark Dimension does appear to be - like what we've seen in Cloak & Dagger - in time, just at a weird, fast rate (despite in Cloak & Dagger it just being normal, in-sync time). So then presumably it should be susceptible, if other dimensions are susceptible. I don't know.
 * Alex seems to know he's been in there for months, as if it's literally been months for him. Which would suggest that perhaps the Runaways arrived in the Dark Dimension the first time then only woke up 6 months later, except for Alex. But I doubt it, considering even Stacey and Victor woke at the same time. Maybe just the days since in the real world happened to also line up as months in the Dark Dimension, and that's where "months" comes from - it's just the way he says it sounds like that should be obvious for them as well. Gert then says it's only been 8 hours, and she doesn't get how time works, so I guess it's just like Sakaar where time fluctuates in relation to the real world (in Sakaar's case, the rest of the world). That somewhat fits with the idea of there being no time in the Dark Dimension. So we can just roughly distribute the scenes of Episode 5 over the 6 months as if it's linear during their time there, and assume that then the days since Episode 5 equated to months for Alex.
 * However, if the Dark Dimension does have a passage of time, just at a weird fluctuating rate, there would be a "simultaneous" moment in the Dark Dimension for the Snap to have occurred. Oh dear...

I noticed Leslie's line and thought Marvelus might note that. I think it's nice to attribute that to the Snap partially in headcanon, though obviously that's not the intent.

Aricco wrote: Dark Dimension, Darkforce Dimension & Hell are all the same place? Explains why the Darkhold ended up with Morgan, also Nico is clearly connected to the Dark Dimension, and when Cloak & Dagger show up shut mention that they have been here before & Cloak has the ability to bring them there, just like he can do with the Darforce dimension. The way the characters are tortured in the Dark Dimension in Runaways is very reminiscent of Hell. Seeing dead characters, reliving bad memories, becoming a mindless one... They all sound similar to me, especially supported by Tandy & Tyrone speaking of the Loa being here before & the record store, as well as the darkhold showing up.

Could Chase have been wrong? Could Alex have no backed something else up in a while or is there a possibility of an error in which the computer lost previous backups? Could we still be pre-snap? Maybe it’s been 4/5 months later & everyone else is just over exaggerating how long it’s been for the sake of convenience? I personally am fine with it being post-snap. I did suggest on here, when we found out about the crossover, that cloak would bring them all to the dark force dimension during the snap so they wouldn’t be impacted, which is basically what happened but Nico did it instead. Having their parents, both Cloak & Dagger, etc is hard to accept, but it is possible.

Also, clear indication they were going to bring Xavin back in the future, which just provides context that the show wasn’t necessarily going to end after season 3. And the fact that Cloak & Dagger invited the Runaways to help them indicates that they fully expected another crossover, but likely on C&D I think they're the same place. As well as the Darkhold thing, they also use the term "Hell" a few times in regard to Morgan, and the idea of being in a thin intersection of the dimensions and slipping away is reminiscent of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. And the place they go to is definitely, explicitly the Darkforce Dimension that Tyrone goes to, but with Nico's eyes it must also be Dormammu's Dark Dimension, meaning all the calling it the "Dark Dimension" probably isn't just a misnomer.

Chase unfortunately isn't just wrong, because Dale explicitly later says it's Day 189 of him living off-the-grid.

Yeah, that line about "Maybe you'll come help us next time" was sad, frankly, because it was obvious setup for a Runaways appearance in a Cloak & Dagger: Season 3. My heart breaks for everyone at Marvel Television. I think Cloak & Dagger is decent and Runaways is meh, but I nonetheless loved the crossover, because those shows have both felt pretty disconnected from everything else in the MCU, so to have them connect felt rewarding - plus, separate characters finally meeting is one of my favourite things about a connected universe. And they even got to use footage from Cloak & Dagger, it felt like a proper crossover of the shows, not just some quick appearances conforming to the show they are appearing in.

I think, more than Xavin, the very end with the "Kill Nico" and Victor Mancha thing is clear setup for a Season 4 and proof it wasn't meant to be the ending. Lucky, then, that the show ended fairly resolutely. I think they knew not to risk it too much.

Marvelus wrote: "Hell is relative. Dimensions, space, planets... it's all connected. Plenty of them qualify as hell."

- Robbie Reyes

The computer explicitly says "6 months, 22 days, ** hours"

I am very sure, it is still post-Snap, I mean, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S6 and Runaways S3 are the only ones that have "wiggle room" to be post-Snap. S6 is due to the "One year later" time jump and Runaways S3 being in the "Dark Dimension" where Time does not exist might suggest the Time Stone does not have effect in there where it comes to erasing half of all life. Maybe being trapped in another dimension just saves you (I don't know if this has been denied, I think BEJT said it has).

BEJT I am reading your time travel blog. I love it! I think what Aricco meant was not that the computer was wrong, but that Chase was wrong about Alex backing it up. But we have the Dale line which stops that from being a possibility.

As Shabook mentions, yeah, both the Russos and Markus and McFeely confirmed Ant-Man just got lucky. But, as discussed, if there's no time in any of the Dark Dimension, that would suggest the Snap isn't possible - but it does seem like there is some time in this section, or whatever it is, of the Dark Dimension.

Thank you for taking a look at the time travel blog. Don't feel pressured to read it, it's not like meant as a "good read" or anything and is fairly repetitive in many places, it's more just meant as a resource and an aid to reach some as-good-as-possible conclusions, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

'Speaking of time travel, the Runaways'' time travel logic is full of holes. I'm not just talking inconsistencies with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Endgame, I don't really care about that because you can just assume it depends on the device - I'm talking about it just not making sense. Frankly, "You can change time" and "You'll be erased from existence" always comes with logical holes, which I'll get into when I'm ready. I am currently doing my best to make the most watertight explanation of the time travel logic as possible, but every time I add another convoluted specification for why one thing is one way and one another way, I still come across yet another hole later on. I'm going to need some time, and to take some breaks - my brain hurts. But I'll let you know my conclusions.'''

'''For now though, considering Deke's conversations with Fitz late in Season 5 combined with this season, we can at least say that the time machine in Runaways does not create new universes, it just rewrites the "one timeline" of your given universe which Deke explains would be what would cause a time-traveller to be erased from existence and disappear. So this is all just different versions of the one universe/timeline, not different universes/timelines.'''

Also, while there is a timeline change pre-Snap, in December 2017, I'm not sure that it's really able to explain the Snap problem. I don't think you can really say "The Snap doesn't, in fact, occur around Season 3, Episode 5, and then just when they change the timeline, then that's the version of the timeline where the Snap occurs", because not only would the tiny changes to December 2017 have no reason to have any sort of impact on Thanos and the Avengers, but also we then see that 8 months later in that version of the timeline things are exactly the same as they were in Season 3, Episode 9 - a) you still have to make the assumption that a bunch of characters survived the Snap, so that's not really resolved, and b) if the Snap didn't happen before but did in this version of the timeline, things almost certainly wouldn't turn out exactly the same.

Shabook wrote: It was denied when it was theorized that being in the Quantum Realm was what saved Ant-Man. He just happened to be a part of the lucky 50%. Marvelus wrote: Oh. Thanks Shabook! Indeed.

Another link for the archives, Elizabeth Hurley says the Runaways are all 16, except Molly, who's 14. It's made very clear that Molly turns 15 in Season 2, so I assume she's referring to at the beginning of the show or just in the majority of the show - up to mid-Season 2. But it reaffirms the Runaways being 16 in Season 2, as Season 2 presented and we ultimately concluded took precedence over the evidence suggesting more like 17 in Season 1.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (Marvelus)
Marvelus wrote: In Season 6 E2 they kind of reference the Sokovia Accords, Benson mentions the LMDs shouldn't be a thing anymore, and that was mentioned by Mace in Season 4. I am enjoying the season. Nice. I didn't love Season 6, but I enjoyed it and really liked a lot of parts of it.