Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26838855-20190803131136/@comment-26838855-20191020170117

Avengers: Damage Control (Assassin1and2, ProBot1227)
Assassin1and2 wrote: https://www.marvel.com/articles/culture-lifestyle/avengers-damage-control-things-we-learned

It takes place after Marvel Studios’ Avengers: Endgame

''If certain haircuts are familiar (looking at you, Hawkeye), it’s because Damage Control is supposed to take place after the events of Endgame. However, there’s no specific time for it as Dave Bushore, VP Franchise Creative & Marketing, Marvel Studios, explained. “When we think about the timeline and we think about the continuity, it’s about always been, ‘on October 15th, I went and saw…’ Now it’s, ‘on October 18th, I lived in…’”

And, sadly, taking place after Endgame means that Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow, and Vision are not included in the final battle (but some other new faces certainly are).'' If it was going to be set anywhere, it was going to be set after Endgame. Before Endgame makes no sense, between Endgame and Far from Home just makes little sense. Because it requires Hulk to have, for some reason off-screen, had the major development of having lost his ability to balance the Bruce and Hulk personas as Smart Hulk, and is just Hulk again. Plus it seems that between Endgame and Far from Home Peter mostly uses the Iron Spider suit rather than the red and blue one, though that's not a contradiction.

I don't understand the quote, is he saying that the thought on continuity has always been to keep it linear by release date, so playing Damage Control on October 18th will be set after the thing you went to see on a previous date like, say, October 15th? Because also, that would make it after Far from Home as well as Endgame. But that's probably not what he means, I don't know, if someone gets it more than I do please explain.

Anyway the wiki has stamped it non-canon, which I agree with considering the contradictions and the fact that it doesn't seem to me - though I don't know much about this sort of VR experience thing - that a game where you manipulate how things play out could in some way have a canonical story.

When ComicBook.com spoke to them, they were vague but the site got the impression it's not really proper canon.

Assassin1and2 wrote: These keeps getting more confusing ProBot1227 wrote: How can it be after Endgame if it doesn't fit into canon? Well, things like the non-canon comics from Phase One are still set "Between Iron Man and Iron Man 2" or whenever, but aren't canon.

I think it's more of an "It's just sort of at some nebulous point "after Endgame", that that provides a foundation for "These characters are dead and these are alive and these know each other", but other than that it's not strictly placed.

Side-note, why is it called Damage Control? Is it just that the story involves what you could label "damage control" on the heroes' part, and then that they named it Damage Control as an out-of-universe nod to the Damage Control comics? Because it doesn't seem to actually have anything to do with Damage Control in-universe.

Netflix (me, Assassin1and2, Edward Zachary Sunrose, Marvelus, DaenerysTheMadKhal58)
BEJT wrote: Now only being said that two Netflix characters, and possibly not even necessarily the actual canon of the shows that even just those two are from - again, phrasing is unclear, but possibly even just a using the same actor without taking on the canon - are currently safe😬. I'm terrified, guys. My fears and confidences on this stuff fluctuates day to day. Sometimes I'm feeling like "It's not even a question. I mean, the official MCU is the official MCU, it just is the way it is, and you can't change that even if you want to. There's so much connective tissue, even if each piece is fairly minor, that it would be ridiculous to assert them as some sort of separate universe, it would be a bad public image showing big disrespect to a whole division, it would anger many people even if it feels like a lot of people are behind it, Daredevil in particular has a passionate fan-base and it would be a bad look to disregard their black-led show in particular with Luke Cage, Feige many times has acknowledged the shows' existence personally, Joe Quesada straddles both and both are under the same umbrella of Disney, people want specifically the characters they've followed and Feige has to know that", etc.. But sometimes I just lose all confidence and become terrified.

And the vague reporting, which very likely is just a result of the vague situation and mostly not the reporters' respective faults, doesn't help.

Assassin1and2 wrote: Well the rumor has it they will be supporting characters so likely they won't mention any past stories but won't retcon either. And if they keep some but recast others it can be Edward Norton/Mark Ruffalo and Terrence Howard/Don Cheadle situation. We'll see. If they do retcon it I suggest keeping the Netflix shows on the wiki but have it be like a similar universe. That's one of the things that's unclear. Does "live on" mean not killed off/not wiped from canon, or does it mean proceed and continue, while the rest just is left behind, not got rid of?

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Wait, two Netflix characters are coming back? BEJT wrote: Who knows? Everything's so non-specific but being treated like it is clear and specific. Marvelus wrote: Wait. From where did you read that? Marvelus wrote: Forget it. I just read Conrad's Twitter. And I did not understand what he meant. He said two Netflix's characters (not the shows as they existed) will live on.

One of them is definitely Daredevil, and I am not sure between Jessica Jones or Punisher. But is is likly will be getting some recast and possibly a "The Incredible Hulk" thing. "The Netflix shows happened but it won't be necessary to see them to understand these characters because we are taking a new approach with new actors in some roles".

I understood it?

Now I am more confident than the entire Marvel Television moving under Marvel Studios's brand mkght have affected Netflix's deal with Marvel Entertainment. if it weren't that way, then Feige could not be planning anything with these characters. Again, unclear, but people like him seem to think that what they've said is explicitly clear.

"It sounds like..." Does this mean from what he's heard, his impression is...? Or does it mean that's what he's directly heard?

"... two of the characters..." Does this mean only two or at least two?

"... (not the shows as they existed on Netflix)..." What does this mean? That the Netflix shows won't continue - that was already obvious, no? That the existing shows that started at Netflix won't continue on at Disney+ - that was also already obvious, no? That the characters will be plucked from the shows and not actually be a continuation of the shows as they existed on Netflix, but rather a J. K. Simmons situation with a new continuity, thus explaining why you can take some and recast others?

"... are safe..." "Two of the characters [...] are safe" might suggest just two for now at least are sure, two are safe, the rest might still be OK as well but aren't safe? "Safe" to what degree/in what regard? The characters are safe or their continuities? And what is the danger to everything else for these to qualify as "safe"?

"... and will live on." Live on, as in be furthered or just survive? And depending on which, does that mean the others are just going to not be furthered, or are they in danger of actively being killed off and wiped?

This is what I mean by non-specific.

Conrad has cleared it up a little bit today with an article. It's Daredevil and Jessica Jones, and he was referring to the shows not being revived which was a hope I threw out a long time ago. He also says "That's without rebooting them", which could just be poor wording and still plucking the characters but at face value, and hopefully, means just what he says. And he says "no word yet on Punisher" (Luke Cage? Iron Fist?), suggesting it was more of an "only two" than "two".

Assassin1and2 wrote: Yeah sadly these won't be solo projects. So no Daredevil Season 4 or Daredevil movie anytime soon. It'll just be Charlie Cox playing Daredevil in a supporting role and we can assume it's in the same continuity or not because it sounds like they won't address it, but we'll see. Apparently due popularity of the show and Kevin Feige's love for his portrayal he is likely to come back. Same might be true for Krysten Ritter.

I also heard that Iron Fist might be the first one to be used but it might be a different actor. Maybe in Shang-Chi. I hope if they do use Netflix actors that they use them all or at least use a different Iron Fist and not Danny Rand if they don't want Finn Jones.

But this is all just speculation based on some rumors and whispers going around. I don't think there was ever really a moment where I thought we would get any sort of solo project for these characters again, especially in the last 6 months or so, so it didn't even really cross my mind that that was still having to be refuted.

I don't care if they don't address the continuity of the characters' pasts - that would be a bonus, but mainly I'm just desperate for them to nonetheless remain canon. Honestly, I would really rather the shows and characters just stay dead and buried and never revisited than some coming back at the risk of others being overwritten.

What you've heard about Iron Fist is probably more just speculation than a rumour, since he is the clear standout as one Feige would not want to inherit if any.

But what you say about Danny Rand - I agree. The thing is, I don't think any of the continuity is particularly restrictive for Feige in the way that, say, the Star Wars canon was in 2014 when they wiped it all. So long as he doesn't want to tell Daredevil's whole origin again, there is no reason he couldn't just pick up with that character where he left off. Same with Luke, same with Jessica. If he doesn't want to use Finn Jones Danny, there's no reason really that he can't just use Orson Randall instead of recasting Danny - we know from A Duel of Iron that he's alive and out there, and like with Micro or Jimmy Woo, you don't need to acknowledge any of the stuff mentioned previously, so long as you just don't go out of your way to contradict it. If he wants to use Ghost Rider, he can use Johnny Blaze. By the very nature of the shows they do not have an extended impact on the wider MCU and it really shouldn't be hard, outside of the Inhumans, to just work around canon.

Marvelus wrote: If they use Iron Fist, I only hope they show Rand travelling around the globe in order to embrace the Fist mantle fully. I doubt he would be the focus of any story even if they did use him. That would be the kind of thing for a proper Iron Fist: Season 3 that'll never happen, rather than a minor appearance in someone else's show or film.

DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: Yeah, I think what Conrad meant was the shows won't be continued but we'll see the characters again. Though I also think he might not know as much as he lets on. I just hope Feige knows that casting the same actor to portray the same character in the same universe but disregarding their past is a dumb idea. And it's possible we might not see any of the Netflix characters again if Disney doesn't buy back the episodes from Netflix, but we'll see.

If they really wanna use Iron Fist in Shang-Chi they should just bring back Colleen. She was Iron Fist at the end of season 2 and is asian, which seems more appropriate for the movie (Danny died off-screen lol). All remains to be seen.

Colleen's great, and I'm glad Jessica Henwick is getting bigger film roles like Godzilla vs. Kong and The Matrix 4, she deserves it. It's a real shame we likely won't get to see more of Colleen as an Iron Fist.

ProBot1227 wrote: No thanks. It would be a bit too far with the meta "We know you hated this guy" nod to actually have him have been killed off-screen, yeah. Like that time Star Wars made canonical that Jar Jar Binks is a severely depressed and lonely street performer now. Also, because Danny was much more tolerable in The Defenders, Luke Cage, and Season 2, and actually there's a lot of fans of his character, even if not among critics.

Spider-Man: Far from Home and Its Impact on Avengers: Endgame (additional)
Again, any further thoughts? I would like to make a decision on whether to make the change.