Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki talk:Playground

Which HYDRA logo should be in which infobox?
As the title says, we have to decide which HYDRA logo should be in which battle infobox of which article. It's easy with the WWII era articles, but it's complicated with the modern era articles. Whitehall's cell was known to use at least three logos (the white logo on the black background, the black logo on the red background, and the original black flag with the red logo). Fortunately, we know the logo of Grant Ward's cell, but we haven't seen Alexander Pierce and Wolfgang von Strucker using any logos. I'm also not sure about the logo used by John Garrett's cell. So, which logo should be used in which articles about the battles of HYDRA Uprising and the War on HYDRA?--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 13:39, October 27, 2015 (UTC)


 * I would say for Strucker and Pierce would use the WWII logo and Garrett would do so as well though we can debate his true loyalty to HYDRA. Correct me of I'm wrong but in the AoS episode Ragtag weren't there computers with the WWII HYDRA logo on their screen? Anyway, I say the WWII HYDRA logo for the articles relating to the HYDRA Uprising and then the white logo on the black background for the War on HYDRA with the exception of articles involving Strucker i.e Attack on the HYDRA Research Base.--Professor Ambrius (talk) 18:18, October 27, 2015 (UTC)


 * Grant Ward's logo looks like an amateur scribble, so i don't think it's official HYDRA material. All other logos appear to be variants of the original World War II one, so i think that is the one we should use. I think the different logos are meant to identify different cells, not represent the whole group. KennyChief (talk) 18:36, October 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * I admit, at first I believed Ward's logo was just another street graffiti, but then I remembered this image. Ward's logo is definitely inspired by Whitehall's WWII era logo.--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 18:58, October 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't have this been discussed before changing the logos in the actual articles?--Shabook (talk) 19:16, October 27, 2015 (UTC)


 * Uskok's idea sound like our best option.--Greater Good (talk) 20:45, October 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * We're not super soldiers, we're ordinary human beings, and we make mistakes. It seems Garrett's logo was black on the blue background.--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 09:32, October 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with Uskok also.Bratpack (talk) 12:25, October 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * So far, the black logo with the red background was used by Jensen and Whitehall, but Whitehall's primary logo was the white logo with the black background. I'll check more AoS screencaps to see if Garrett's cell was using some other logo. But we still don't know which logos were used by Pierce, Strucker, and List.--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 13:05, October 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * Uskok, I think the Red and Black WWII Hydra logo for Pierce and Strucker as well as List would be just fine.--Professor Ambrius (talk) 19:53, October 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * Any other ideas?--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 16:59, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Since Garrett used the Barbershop Headquarters as his base, the logo that appeared on the bases' computers could be used for Garrett. Then for Whitehall, use the modern day HYDRA logo. The inverted logo that was in his office was probably just for decoration.--Professor Ambrius (talk) 17:28, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * The white logo with the black background for the battles involving Whitehall's cell.
 * The black logo with the red background for the Battle of Sudan.
 * The original red logo for the battles involving Garrett's cell. It's the most common logo and it was also used on the computers in the Barbershop Headquarters. http://screencapped.net/marvel/displayimage.php?album=46&pid=38641#top_display_media
 * The original red logo for the battles involving Strucker's and List's cell. It's the most common logo and it was also used on the computers in the Arctic HYDRA Research Facility.http://screencapped.net/marvel/displayimage.php?album=65&pid=235856#top_display_media BTW, there is at least one other logo used by Garrett's cell, the black one with the green background, used on the computers on the Bus.http://screencapped.net/marvel/displayimage.php?album=46&pid=38704#top_display_media --HYDRA Agent (talk) 08:53, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * In the light of new evidences, I agree with the latest proposal. However, which logo(s) should be used for the infoboxes of HYDRA Uprising and War on HYDRA? Also, which logo should be used in the infobox of the Battle at the Triskelion?--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 17:07, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Any ideas?--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 17:36, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Codenames vs real names
{{archive At the moment, our naming policy says "Character entries should be listed by their Marvel Comics codename if it is used for the character either as a proper codename or used as an alias for the character within the Marvel Cinematic Universe." We may have to change that, and the sooner we do that, the better for the Wiki. Why should we do that? Because of one simple reason. We have multiple characters who are using the same codename. Black Panther (T'Chaka and T'Challa), Ant-Man (Hank Pym and Scott Lang), and it's quite possible we'll soon have more of them (Wasp - Janet van Dyne and Hope van Dyne). We already have one real and one fictional Captain America, and if Steve Rogers really dies at the end of Captain America: Civil War and Sam Wilson takes his place, we'll have another real Captain America.
 * result= The MCU Wiki will continue to use Code Names for characters
 * discussion=

BTW, if two characters use the same codename, it's usual that that the codename leads to the first user of that codename. In our case, the codename Ant-Man leads to Scott Lang, the second user. That needs to be corrected.

In some cases we are already ignoring the policy in one way (Baron Strucker/Wolfgang von Strucker, Baron Zemo/Helmut Zemo) and in some cases in another way (Baron Mordo - No degrees or titles, such as General, Agent or Doctor).

We already had to change one article from one codename (War Machine) to another one (Iron Patriot) only to have to switch back to the original codename (War Machine). Using the real names would prevent such problems from ever happening again. Therefore, my proposal is to move all heroes and villains articles to their real names and keep the codenames as titles of the articles only if the hero's/villain's real name is unknown (like the Mandarin). What say you?--Uskok{{sup|S.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters}} 18:01, October 31, 2015 (UTC) Also, Marvel uses, most prominently, the codenames, that is the reason the movies are called Captain America: The Winter Soldier, instead of Steve Rogers: The Bucky Barnes; Iron Man 3 instead of Anthony Stark 3, Daredevil instead of The Adventures of Blind Matt Murdock, and so on. As for people sharing codenames, we use, logically, the codename for its current user, just like every other information in this wiki. The proposal as it is currently redacted based its reasons on things that are not true.--Shabook (talk) 18:10, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I totally disagree. Maybe the current policy needs some clarification and a better redaction, and I'm not against that. And your redaction here has been misleading. The change of a codename (War Machine to Iron Patriot to War Machine) is covered in the current policy, and that reflects the "then-current" information about the character. There is also another section where it talks about having titles or degrees in a codename, such as Doctor Strange or Captain America.
 * On a side note. Even the Marvel Wiki, that tends to use full real names even when they are hardly ever used, has needed to ignore its own policy regarding the most popular characters.--Shabook (talk) 18:13, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * But if Sam Wilson becomes the next Captain America, we'll have to edit more than 500 articles so they could lead to Sam Wilson's article and not Steve Rogers' article anymore. That's why the Marvel Database Wiki uses the real names and not the codenames anymore. We should follow their example. The names of the movies will stay the same. No one is proposing to change the names of the movies.--Uskok{{sup|S.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters}} 18:16, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * We are going to base this on something that may happen in the future? If that is the reason, and if that happenes in, (let's say, 3 or 4 years?) I will personally fix each and every article. I've visited many similar wikis, and the ones that use real names instead of the more popular codenames receive constant messages to change them. I think a full change is a bad idea, and, quoting yourself, we are not the Marvel Wiki. On the other hand, as I said before, a review of the policy with clarifications and examples that have appeared since it was written and maybe some changes if needed is more than welcome.--Shabook (talk) 18:26, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Then you should also quote my "We shouldn't say no to something good from another Wiki." I'm not basing this on something that may happen in the future, this is what had to be done a long time ago, but three years ago New Captain was still an active admin and I just went with the flow. What if it turns out that Gideon Malick is the MCU verion of Albert Malik and the next Red Skull? Should we move all links to Red Skull to Gideon Malick? It would look ridiculous.--Uskok{{sup|S.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters}} 18:35, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * You're basing this proposal on things that may happen, not on facts. And I doubt it is something good. As I said before, they don't even follow their own policy, and I know for a fact that it has led to multiple mistakes. For example there were and there are lots of duplicated pages about exactly the same characters by only changing a little word. And I know it for a fact because I edited there this summer trying to fix as many as I could, but it was such a mess that it's almost impossible. That's not something we should import.--Shabook (talk) 18:42, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I would be fine moving all pages to character's real name/most used name. So it would be Steve Rogers instead of Captain American or Steven Rogers.Coluanprime (talk) 18:54, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Shabook That's why we should import only the good things, not the mess. I believe no one wants the mess here, and Marvel Wiki has so many problems because it's so big. We, on the other hand, don't have them, and we can prevent them with this preventive action.
 * @Coluanprime That's what we still have to decide but I prefer the full names, or in this case Steven Grant Rogers.--Uskok{{sup|S.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters}} 18:58, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm even more against that. Who calls him Steven Grant Rogers? Or Margaret Carter? Or Samuel Koenig? As I said before, we don't need to change the whole wiki just in case something happens in 2018 or 2019...--Shabook (talk) 19:05, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

My counterproposal is, like I said before, to improve and clarify the current policy to take care of different examples that may have popped up since the policy was written. As for acting regarding things that may happen in the future, we should not do that. We have always wait until Marvel says something to act having all the cards on the table (Marvel acts, we react). In this case, changing the codename from one of their most notable characters (Captain America), would require a lot of explanation from Marvel, both in-universe and out-of-universe, aimed to the general public that watches the movies but doesn't read comics or know about them as much as we do. I believe that's the prudent and correct way to act.--Shabook (talk) 19:45, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I have always wished we referred to people by their real names, like Steve Rogers instead of Captain America, or Tony Stark instead Iron Man, for the reasons Uskok initially listed. KennyChief (talk) 20:20, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe that the way we got the articles named works just fine, because as Shabook said not everyone know as much as us about these characters. Even Raina said it "Have you ever heard of Steve Rogers? No. Captain America, now he's on the news and lunch box and a poster on the wall." Everyone know the names of the heroes, but not the real names. Now, this happens to me when I go to the Arrowverse Wiki, I go there and try to look for a character using their alias, then I see that there are multiple names when I look for one character (F.E. I try looking for "King Shark" and when I type King there appears two names "Derek Reston" and "Shay Lamden") My point is that it is confusing to look for one character and then it appears different names instead of the name your looking for. --AKA S.I.H (talk) 20:47, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I am in favor of Uskok's proposal, but not completely for the reasons stated. The codenames are much more important and prominent in the comics. In the MCU, real names are much more prevalent with codenames more for marketing to nods to comic book fans. For example, characters like Ivan Vanko and Bobbi Morse were marketed as Whiplash and Mockingbird, but never referred as such onscreen. I also like the consistency of real names because everyone has one. It would be clearer and easier to determine. As it stands now, I have seen several disputes that might have been avoided. I am in favor of using the most commonly used real names, e.g., Steve Rogers. - DinoSlider (talk) 20:59, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I prefer code names for the reason that SIH gave, especially the Raina quote. I believe when a person wants to read an article, they look for the code name first, because of marketing. The comic con told us "Mockingbird" was coming; she has never used that name on the show, but someone new will search for "Mockingbird". That is why we have redirects and disambiguation. When i grew up, comic writers had a policy: This issue might be the reader's first, so it must be written so that the newbie will feel comfortable, but the plot can also progress. When a newbie comes to this wiki after watching a movie, he, imho, knows code names from classic characters, not first or even last names. Who knows Johann Schmidt? But if i ask, "Who is the Red Skull?", there is immediate recognition. We must remember the person who comes to the wiki for the first time and how we can help that newbie enjoy his experience here and contine to read our hard work. "Ant-Man" is Scott Lang; the movie was about him. Hank Pym WAS Ant-Man; but we provide the LATEST information. IF, IF Sam Wilson becomes Captain America, then we should do the same thing that we did for QUAKE; the past is the past and now we adapt. We should tackle this problem, cross this bridge, when we get to it. Acting proactively for this would be confusing and, i think, would hurt our readers.Bratpack (talk) 23:56, October 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I disagree, people who watch the show will look for Bobbi. Millions of people watch the show, a few thousand saw the video. Comic names can be maintained as redirects but the articles should be titled by real name.{{Unsigned|Coluanprime}}


 * I agree. And like Shabook said, IF Falcon or Bucky become Captain America, then no matter how much work needs to be done, no matter how many links need to be changed, we will put our time and effortinto fixing every single link. I will personally assist him with changing them all. MCUFFTW ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ 01:00, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * Redirects will always send a reader to the proper location in either case (status quo or accepting the proposal). However, perhaps we should consider a different option. Why not pages for both? Steve Rogers is a person, so he deserves a page. Captain America is a notable title, so that deserves a page. Why does one or the other need to be a redirect? If Bucky Barnes or Sam Wilson takes over the title, then it could be noted very quickly and easily. If there is too much duplicate info, that could be resolved using templates. Just a thought. - DinoSlider (talk) 02:12, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with Bratpack and SIH. The codenames are iconic, and that's what most, if not all people look for. I think we should keep them. Dr.Who1997{{sup|To The Playground}} 08:35, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * But the codenames will redirect to the first users of that codename. Captain America to Steven Rogers, Ant-Man to Henry Pym, etc. We don't even have to move the articles to their full names. It can be Steven Rogers instead of Steven Grant Rogers, Natalia Romanoff instead of Natalia Alianovna Romanoff. We can even move the articles to their most common civilian names (Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanoff), but the titles like Baron and Captain shouldn't be used as the names of the articles.--Uskok{{sup|S.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters}} 09:06, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm getting confused already and nothing has happened yet!! Are you saying that, in the FUTURE, when i type "Ant-Man", it will refer me to Hank Pym ('cause, right now, it goes to Lang)? Why would i want that? I would want to go to the larest title holder. You know what is so ironic: i asked this same question EXACTLY a year ago on the comment board of "Black Panther (film)"; we are divided along the same lines then as we are now...Bratpack (talk) 11:43, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think DinoSlider has a good point. These are superhero names, and each superhero has 1 or more aliases. When i search for Scott Lang, it should refer to Scott Lang, not to Ant-Man. When i search for Ant-Man it should refer to Ant-Man.The Donutman (talk) 12:16, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we should leave things as they are for now and react accordingly to changes when necessary.--Greater Good (talk) 13:23, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * If anyone is interested, I did a quick test to show how my idea could work. I have a codename page, Ant-Man, which includes only the biographies from the individual pages Hank Pym and Scott Lang. - DinoSlider (talk) 13:46, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with others that we should mantain the aliases instead of the real names. Many wikis add the real names instead of the aliases, but the MCU wiki is more unique than any others because we use the aliases, which is not only more fun, but loyal to what attracts most people to this kind of wiki: the superhero themes. Speaking of double aliases, no problem on that. Ant-Man is Scott Lang now, not Hank Pym, so Scott should be called Ant-Man, not Hank, same goes for T'Challa and T'Chaka on Black Panther.--Draft227 (talk) 12:26, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * And when Sam Wilson takes over the mantle of Captain America, the best known holder of the name overnight becomes some anonymous Steve Rogers. As for where the codenames should redirect, as a counter-solution, they could lead to the disambiguation pages. Captain America to Captain America (disambiguation), Ant-Man to Ant-Man (disambiguation), Baron Zemo to Baron Zemo (disambiguation), etc.--Uskok{{sup|S.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters}} 19:20, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * But you are basing this on a personal though that a character may become another one. This didn't happen, and if happen, the members have made clear that they will all do their best to change all the pages, such as Shabook said in one of the first commentes.--Draft227 (talk) 17:52, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * Before I vote, let me see if I understand this completely. If I like the way the naming policy is now, I vote for Code Names. And if (for example) Sam or Bucky becomes a new Captain America, their pages will not be renamed to show their new codename? Please correct me if I have this completely wrong.--Professor Ambrius (talk) 20:56, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Draft227 But if we use the titles for the names of the articles, why not have General Ross instead of Thaddeus Ross? This is also another case where we are ignoring the policy (Thunderbolt Ross) in favor of the more practical option (real name). I'm just asking to apply that more practical option on all articles, not just some of them.
 * @Professor Ambrius If you vote for Code Names, the situation stays problematic as it is. The solution will just have to be postponed for another time. I would rather solve the problem now than have to wait for another year.--Uskok{{sup|S.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters}} 21:23, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, a reason that's not true. The rank/title is used sometimes, by some characters, as his codename. We all know examples in popular culture (Doctor Strange, Doctor Octopus...), but that doesn't mean that every doctor uses its medical degree as his codename. As for Ross, the codename he has had in the comics is Red Hulk, "Thunderbolt" is a nickname, and the current policy explains the difference between them.--Shabook (talk) 21:29, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * We both know what you're saying is wrong. Before he became Red Hulk, Ross was best known as Thunderbolt Ross. Since that name was used in the MCU, why are we ignoring our own policy and calling him by his real name? Either everyone should be called by their codenames, nicknames, or titles, or no one. It's too bloody confusing.--Uskok{{sup|S.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters}} 11:21, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * I do agree that Ross should be called "Thunderbolt" Ross for consistency reasonsl; that is his iconic name.Bratpack (talk) 11:29, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * But that's exactly what would sound silly. In Captain America: Civil War Ross will be the new US Secretary of State. Can you imagine anyone calling him "Secretary of State Thunderbolt Ross"? The Marvel Cinematic Universe is the most realistic of all realities of the Marvel Multiverse and this Wikia should reflect that.--Uskok{{sup|S.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters}} 11:35, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, the voting process is open, every active editor has the opportunity to reflect there their opinion.--Shabook (talk) 11:47, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Romanoff went to a US Senate hearing; how many people called her "Black Widow" there? However, Romanoff's battle against Sofia is stupid if BW was not a recognized name in the intelligence community. Code names are used in the appropriate settings...Bratpack (talk) 12:29, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Votes
Here you can vote about the proposal to change the way character pages are named in the You can vote for using the real names or using the codenames by adding your signature (Typing ~ ). The voting process will last for exactly a week, which means it will end on November 8 in 19:35 UTC. All voters must be active members of the wiki, having joined before the voting process began, and having edited an article in the last two months.--Shabook (talk) 19:35, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

For "Real Names"

 * 1) UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 20:17, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) Chrisflistal (talk) 21:51, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) Coluanprime (talk) 23:03, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 4) SHIELDAgent154 (talk) 00:57, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 5) X-Men Are Cool {talk) 04:04, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 6) --HYDRA Agent (talk) 07:45, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 7) Dutch You SOB (talk) 17:26, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 8) -- Bold  Clone  19:49, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 9) Draft227 (talk 20:41, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 10) DinoSlider (talk) 00:00, November 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * 11) Flash 205 (talk)Flash205
 * 12) KennyChief (talk) 01:00, November 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * 13) Moleman 9000  01:08, November 4, 2015 (UTC) (Some exceptions should be allowed tho)
 * 14) Carnassis (talk) 06:11, November 4, 2015 (UTC) (Code names should follow in parentheses)
 * 15) Zero-ELEC (talk) 06:52, November 4, 2015 (UTC) (Abbreviated names when available, of course. As in no middle names or patronyms or stuff like that.)
 * 16) DavidAtkins77 (talk) 12:38, November 5, 2015 (UTC) (Code names should still link to current hero)
 * 17) SeanWheeler (talk) 18:09, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

For "Code Names"

 * 1) Nurdboy42 (talk) 19:38, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) MCUFFTW ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ 19:57, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) Dr.Who1997To The Playground 20:05, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 4) Lowriders95s10 (talk) 20:06, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 5) Bratpack (talk) 20:08, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 6) Knightman (talk) 17:24, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 7) 1stAvenger (talk) 21:38, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 8) AKA S.I.H (talk) 22:03, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 9) Babyrockhopper (talk) 22:53, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 10) Bridgetterocks (talk) 07:40, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 11) Erisiel (talk) 09:26, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 12) The Donutman (talk) 12:04, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 13) Rodangizzardcrusher3 (talk) 17:17, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 14) Professor Ambrius (talk) 17:40, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 15) Greater Good (talk) 18:45, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 16) 8th Hero of Olympus (talk) 19:20, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 17) The Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. (talk) 23:03, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 18) Saltzmann (talk) 11:24, November 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * 19) Actionzephyr 06:16, November 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * 20) Shabook (talk) 19:34, November 8, 2015 (UTC)

Other Comments
I will not vote, because I am fine with both ways.TomasDerksen (talk) 20:58, November 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * This is just an idea, but what if we were to do what some other wikis do and call the articles "Codename (Real Name)". For example for Ant-Man, you could have one article called "Ant-Man (Scott Lang)" and one called "Ant-Man (Hank Pym)". Just wondering if that might work.BEJT (talk) 22:20, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * I have an idea. Why don't we use the "Codename" for the current version of the Hero? For example: Scott Lang is Ant-Man but Hank Pym is just Hank Pym The Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. (talk) 23:03, November 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * I have a curious question. Why is this vote restricted to those who have edited an article in the last two months? The voting policy states that the voting process are open to all users. - DinoSlider (talk) 00:22, November 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * @BEJT That would look sillier than the current policy.
 * @The Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. That's exactly the current situation.
 * @DinoSlider That's something Shabook added on his own initiative.--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 09:43, November 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * I added that because I've seen people going to other wikis and ask former editors to come and vote their options. That ids, besides extremely unfare for the people who actually edits and contributes to this wiki, something very low...-Shabook (talk) 11:39, November 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * And some of those "former" editors have done more for this Wiki than regular "editors" who know only how to post endless comments and nothing else. If anyone should be forbidden from voting, it's those who have posted dozens of comments but haven't made a single edit.--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 12:19, November 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Then I guess I can't vote because I only comment on forums and can't find much to edit. SeanWheeler (talk) 18:39, November 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * you can vote aslong s it has been within those 2 monthsTomasDerksen (talk) 18:54, November 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * I wasn't talking specifically about you, Sean, you're one of the newer users, but some users have been here much longer than you but still need to make their first "real edit".--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters 19:24, November 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's the reason it was specified that an article needs to have been edited in the last two months prior to the beginning of the vote. By the way, two months is the amount of time that general Wikia uses to consider an editor active or not. Some of the current votes on both sides are not valid.--Shabook (talk) 19:28, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

Votes from users X-Men Are Cool, Moleman9000, SeanWheeler and 8th Hero of Olympus are not taken into account. Either way, the option to keep using codenames has been chosen by a majority of users. The policy will be reviewed as soon as possible to make sure it is clear enough for all users to be interpreted. Also, articles will be reviewed to make sure they follow the policy. Thank you to all editors for their participation.-Shabook (talk) 19:37, November 8, 2015 (UTC) }}

Relationship section
Hello Editors! I have noticed that within this wikia we always divide our relationship section simply in three parts. Family, Allies and Enemies. Except for the family part this means we use a verry small view, every positive relation is an allie, every negative one is an enemy. In reality a lot of the relationships would not fall in one of the two sections. I therefor advice a new section, basicly neutral.

As example I will take Trish Walker her allies: Old version:

Allies

 * Luke Cage
 * Malcolm Ducasse
 * Reva Connors † - Fan
 * Zack
 * Nicole - Intern
 * Kozlov
 * Diane Masagi - Interviewee
 * Adam‏‎
 * Sabrina

New version:

Allies

 * Luke Cage
 * Malcolm Ducasse

Neutral

 * Zack - Colleague
 * Nicole - Intern
 * Kozlov - Simpson's Doctor
 * Diane Masagi - Interviewee
 * Reva Connors † - Fan
 * Adam‏‎
 * Sabrina

From the old allies liest only Cage and Ducasse, who helped against Kilgrave, could be mentioned as Allies. All the others, while having a positive relationship, are not her ally nor her enemy.

Changing this all will take a load of work, but I think it improves the wikia.TomasDerksen (talk) 11:27, January 16, 2016 (UTC)

Reactions
Good proposal! I completely agree. I would go farther however and simply remove the headers and list each individual person as the relation ship they have. Allies, Neutral, and Enemies still seems far too broad.Coluanprime (talk) 20:10, January 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * I only used the word Neutral as an example, the word neutral could be replaced with everything. I like to keep the relationships divided with headers, but it should still be realistic.TomasDerksen (talk) 20:14, January 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * I like this proposal. I thought about it a while back, as I would sometimes run into problems with deciding where characters belong in the relationship sections. I believe this will help with a lot of the situations we could run into. MCUFFTW ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ 20:43, January 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * I like the individual tags idea, if the list is too long, we can simply use columns to make it appear smaller.--Shabook (talk) 23:50, January 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * As for the example used above, I would put Zach and Nicole in the Allies section since they have history together and friendship from being colleagues. Many times when editing these sections I become conflicted when it comes the character interactions between Trish Walker and Dr. Kozlov for instance. They show no threat or dislike toward each other; not enemies. And I can't exactly say they trust each other either so I wouldn't say they are allies. They are just two characters who were in the same room together. I think this would be a good way to keep the section more organized than they already are. MCUFFTW ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ 00:50, January 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * Nicole is just an intern, so they have not known eachother long and Zack is a colleague helping her with the show. But being a friend or a colleague doesnt mean being an ally. An ally is someone who fights/stands on your side against the same enemy. Some people have no allies at all within the MCU. Benson by example, she has colleagues. They are not her allies, only her colleagues. There is a line between having a possitive relation (like those you mentioned) and being allies. I would also agree with just individual tags to keep the entire problem away.TomasDerksen (talk) 00:55, January 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree with Shabook.Coluanprime (talk) 01:01, January 19, 2016 (UTC)

I like this idea. I think it would be a great way to clean up the relationship section on some characters pages.The Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. (talk) 22:51, January 18, 2016 (UTC) I most definitely support this idea - it allows for a greater understanding, without the constraints of some people just having to be either one or the other.8th Hero of Olympus (talk) 23:43, January 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * I like it as well. Having just Allies and Enemies is pretty limiting. 1stAvenger (talk) 01:04, January 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * I also like the idea as it is a great way to expand the wiki. AKA S.I.H (talk) 02:29, January 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * I like it too. Like it's been previously said, it helps organize the Relationship Section and broadens it.--Professor Ambrius (talk) 20:19, January 20, 2016 (UTC)

Just a question for Shabook, since no one seems to be against changing it, should a vote be placed with the option for removing those subsections entirely or adding a neutral one?TomasDerksen (talk) 22:09, January 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like everyone that has commented agrees with a change, but there has been two different proposals here, adding the "Neutral" sub-section, or removing them and adding individual tags. Comments from most people are not clear enough if they support one or the other, so we'll see if people clarifies it. If there is a majority of comments for one, we can skip the vote, if it's not clear, we'll open a vote...--Shabook (talk) 23:46, January 20, 2016 (UTC)

Voting
I would like to ask everyone to place a vote on the system they would like for the relationship section. This vote will be following our normal vote policies.TomasDerksen (talk) 00:31, January 23, 2016 (UTC)

No Sections
For those in favor off having no tags at all, just one list with a clarification behind the names.
 * 1) Coluanprime (talk) 01:11, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * 2) TomasDerksen (talk) 00:31, January 23, 2016 (UTC)

Adding Neutral
Like the proposal says.
 * 1) SHIELDAgent154 (talk) 00:47, January 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * 2) Bratpack (talk) 00:49, January 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * 3) MCUFFTW ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ 00:55, January 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * 4) The Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. (talk) 00:56, January 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * 5) 1stAvenger (talk) 01:40, January 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * 6) AKA S.I.H (talk) 16:19, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * 7) Dr.Who1997To The Playground 17:13, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * 8) Silacko (talk) 23:05, February 27, 2016 (UTC)

Keep it how it is
Keep it how it is.

Books Referencing System
As we all know, the information presented in our in-universe articles are based on what we've seen in the MCU movies and TV series, or what we have read in the MCU comics. But there's also one more source of info. The books! So far I have used books as sources in some articles (Harry S. Truman, Howard Stark, World War II, Matthew Ellis, Thaddeus Ross), and when I was referencing those books, I always put the number of the page from which the reference was taken, like on Wikipedia. That makes the reference look more professional, increases the quality of the Wikia, and does a good service to those who read the articles because they can immediately find the needed page (if they are in possession of the book) without having to read the entire book. Here's a sample from the Howard Stark article

which once used looks like this

Iron Man Novelization, pg. 15

As of lately, we are facing the influx of additional information from the official guidebooks published by Marvel. To maintain consistency with the existing system, such references should also be used when we are referencing the guidebooks. However, Shabook advocates the complete removal of the number which would shorten the reference to just the name of the book.

So I'm asking you all this, should we use the existing referencing system (with the number of the page) every time we reference a book (a guidebook, in this case) or should we use the system without the number, which Shabook favors?--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters - Playground 18:21, March 6, 2016 (UTC)