Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki talk:Playground

Alternate Reality for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Future
Now that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D./Season Five is over, it is clear without a doubt that episodes Orientation Part One to Past Life all take place in an alternate bad future. That means that every character that first appear in them, such as Deke Shaw, Flint or Sinara are not from the main MCU timeline, but more importantly, the characters who got into that future by taking the slow path (Leo Fitz, Elena Rodriguez, Robin Hinton) are going to have different lives from now on, requiring to split their articles into alternate counterparts. Should we treat it like Framework and create alternate selves pages for everyone involved, including alternate histories of events, locations and objects? HBK123 (talk) 09:52, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * The only characters that need alternate articles are the ones seen in The Last Day, which includes Leo Fitz' version, and Robin Hinton. For now, the Fitz we saw returning to the past until The End will be treated as the one and the same in the main article. No other articles need splitting, items, events and locations, even the Lighthouse, don't need an alternate article. Use the Framework situation as a template for how to deal with alternate realities.--Shabook (talk) 11:08, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * There are however different articles for vehicles and locations of the Framework. There is a different article for the Zephyr One, for example. Or even Washington D.C.--Elledy92 (talk) 11:48, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * And what articles would need alternate articles? Certainly not the future characters. And not the items, because no matter their different history, items like the Odium are exactly the same item, unlike Framework items which were digital recreations, not the same item.--Shabook (talk) 11:59, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree that items like the Odium or the Kree Battle Axe shouldn't be changed, since they are generic items. But important vehicles and locations like the Zephyr One of the Lighthouse should be splitted since they have a different story in the alternate future (the Lightouse being essentially turned into a space station).
 * Both the Lighthouse and the Zephyr One are the same physical items, with just another history in the ELE future.--Shabook (talk) 13:39, May 19, 2018 (UTC)


 * Also, What about merging all the timeline page after 2018 (related to this new timeline), into a single page about the events of the "Earth Destroyed Timeline"? --Elledy92 (talk) 12:05, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * Speaking strictly from an administrative POV, and not my personal opinion which I will keep for myself, timeline articles are fanon content right now, and all information is, or should be, available in the rest of well-sourced articles of this wiki.--Shabook (talk) 13:39, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what the answer is to the question about page-moving, though. Is there going to be one collective page as Elledy has suggested? And which point is the wiki considering to be the point of divergence? When the team return from the future, when Coulson decides to slip the Centipede serum into Daisy's gauntlets, or something like that? It can't just be that when the team transported into the future they went into an alternate timeline, because otherwise Fitz could not have slept 74 years from the present into that future. The White Monolith might be considered capable of switching between timelines, but going to sleep isn't.BEJT (talk) 21:06, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * And that is something that we won't know for now, and we will probably have to wait until Season 6, which means more than a year. Marvel's rules for future timelines are that every alternate future is set actually in an alternate reality. That the ELE future is an alternate reality is not questionable anymore...--Shabook (talk) 21:16, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, I think I get you. What does ELE stand for? And what do you suggest should be the existing articles? For example: "2017" showing both "2018" and "Earth Destroyed Timeline" (or whichever title) as "After"? Then 2018 just including this timeline's events and everything going forwards, and "Earth Destroyed Timeline" including the way things went down in the bad timeline, and the 2091-set episodes' events? Or at the point of divergence in 2018 a note referring to the other page? Basically, do you have an opinion on which pages should exist, and how it should be structured?BEJT (talk) 21:23, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * ELE stands for Extinction Level Event. Timeline for the altenate future should be condensed into a single article, similar to Before 20th Century. Not sure about the name yet.--Shabook (talk) 21:34, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, cool. Just say whenever you think of a title. The only thing I wouldn't use is "Alternate" or "Alternative" because that suggests it was never going to be the case - but it was the original timeline and this new one is the change, as shown by Fitz's sleep and Robin feeling the shift to a new timeline. I might suggest "Original Timeline Future" or "Destroyed Earth Timeline Future" or "Lighthouse Timeline Future".BEJT (talk) 01:18, May 22, 2018 (UTC)


 * That the future the S.H.I.E.L.D. team saw at the beginning of Season Five was bad, there's no doubt about that. But that it was alternate - nope! Technically, it was the original future, the future that happened, the future they lived in. By changing the past (defeating Talbot) they have created an alternate timeline, a timeline they're now living in.--UskokS.H.I.E.L.D. Headquarters - Playground 13:28, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * Technically, if the current reality is going to still be Earth-199999 (which is a fact, as Marvel Studios shoots down anything so ambitious from Marvel Television), then the future where Earth is destroyed is an alternate reality with another numerical designation.--Shabook (talk) 13:39, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand that Shabook, but I feel Uskok is right since Fitz fell asleep in the present day and slept through into the future. The White Monolith might be considered capable of switching between timelines, but going to sleep isn't. As well as this, Robin feels the shift from the original timeline to the new timeline. Is it possible however that since time is fluid, according to Simmons at the end of the episode, that Earth-199999 is the final, cemented timeline in the MCU, but the alternative futures essentially get discarded as different designations?BEJT (talk) 21:06, May 19, 2018 (UTC)

Alternate Universes
First hinted in the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episode appropiately named What If... with the existence of a parallel universe manifested through the Framework, and then fully developed throught the Time Travel exploits both in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Avengers: Endgame, the Marvel Cinematic Universe has finally introduced alternate universes branching from the main reality of Earth-199999, as officially designated by Marvel within their Multiverse system.

This has even been referenced in universe, with the quote by Deke Shaw: "Well, actually, not according to the multiverse theory. You probably never heard of it, but in quantum physics, there's a theory that, for every universe, there are infinite parallel universes. So in my universe, you destroyed the planet. Maybe that just hasn't happened in...""

- Deke Shaw

Now, this brings a lot of questions for how to deal with this whole new situation within the Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki. We have now seen different versions of our characters coming from different alternate universes

Considering that there is an entire new TV series bound to introduce a new alternate universe within each episode, there is the need to clarify how to proceed with some things, ideally, before this series premieres. -
 * 1) Characters having alternate versions hailing from different universes. The two main ways to proceed are to have different articles for each reality, in the way the Marvel Database deals with them, or to have a "Tab system", similar to how the Mangog article is currently written now, but only for the biography sections where the counterparts' history is different.
 * 2) Pages for the different realities. They are currently summarized in the Time Travel article, but probably not the best way, given not every alternate universe is created through Time Travel.
 * 3) Other related proposals affecting the canonical articles of this wiki.

Please the comments relevant, concise and civil, in order to comment your opinions or proposals regarding this whole new topic--Shabook (talk) 17:07, August 27, 2019 (UTC)


 * This are my opinions and suggestion on the subject:
 * About characters: i'm not fond of the Tab system, so i vote for a page for each alternate character (since an alternate version of the same character might have a different codename of the main one, like for example What If's 1945 Steve Roger who is gonna be Iron Man). The Character's biography starting from the point where it diverges from the main character's biography.
 * Creating page for each reality shouldn't be a problem. The question is: what about the main one? As of today, the Earth-199999 page is more like a out-of-universe page, and analized the Marvel Cinematic Universe a multi-media. Should this be changed (separating the Marvel Cinematic Universe page with a new "Earth-199999" page)?
 * Categories for characters of different realities: should we create them?

--Elledy92 (talk) 19:31, August 27, 2019 (UTC)

Regarding the tab system. I believe tabs should be used for universes branched out from the MCU, since they share the same history up to a point, before the character was essentially "split" into two. This effectively communicates the idea of the branched versions of the characters, while also meaning that there are no complications such as editing a part of, say, Gamora's biography from her past (before the split) and having to make sure the exact identical edit is always also made on her counterpart's page.

Meanwhile, for entirely separate parallel universes, entirely separate pages I believe would be fitting, such as the system used for the Framework (when connected to the real characters, just using their pages, when not connected, creating a separate page).BEJT (talk) 17:59, August 27, 2019 (UTC)
 * Every universe covered in this wiki, by definition, branches from the main MCU universe. All the universes seen in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., in Avengers: Endgame, and the ones currently hinted in the What If...? storylines, are an universe that shares its history with the main Earth-199999 up to a point of divergence.--Shabook (talk) 18:25, August 27, 2019 (UTC)