Thread:Marvelus/@comment-27496405-20190519011243/@comment-26838855-20190526164000

Cloak & Dagger (Marvelus, Mrmichaelt)
Marvelus wrote: Wasn't the newspaper wrote by Karen? Ohhhhh!!! Now I know from when the newspaper is. By Season 2 E 13 of Luke Cage, Black Mariah ordered her old allies to get killed. Several incidents and shootings took place and Luke Cage got involved in defending Harlem. Saving people. So yes, Luke Cage saves Harlem. The newspaper must be from September 2017 referring to Season 2 E13 storyline. We might even move a little bit later the scenes to the end of the month. Eh, Luke didn't really do anything helpful there, and that isn't really a "Harlem Rumble". Again, I don't think it's an event we've seen. It's just a small Luke Cage event.

Mrmichaelt wrote: Yeah, cool, looks like the sane solution is to deem Solomon's newspaper as an outdated one he kept for posterity or found it in the cafe. Yeah but it doesn't have to be more than a few weeks out of date. So long as it was before the main events of Daredevil: Season 3.

Mrmichaelt wrote: Interesting. Promising. I would personally just assume it's from a skirmish in October 2017.

October-November 2017 (Nox23, Marvelus)
Nox23 wrote: This are the notes i made the other night of the different episodes and stopping points before I cut the video together, just for kicks. It's a mess lol but it's fun.

IF 209 Rec center aftermath DD 305 Dex’s tantrum IF 209 Sisters start on tattoo DD 305 Karen tells Foggy IF 209 Walker knocks out Misty DD 306 Foggy questions Karen IF 209 to end IF 210 Davos defeated CD 201 Opening DD 306 Dex hits alarm IF 210 fight aftermath DD 306 Dex sees article CD 201 Tandy’s offer to Mikayla IF 210 Collen/Mrs Yang truce AoS 505 Fitz tosses magazine CD 201 Spying on Evita DD 306 Nadeem talks to Hattley IF 210 Danny and Ward leave CD 201 Tandy and Ty argue DD 306 to end DD 307 Fisk smiles DD 308 Dex with vacuum CD Ty and Tandy wait in nightclub CD 203 48 hours ago CD 201 to end CD 202 Beginning (Ty and Tandy argue again) CD 202 Brigid: Calls cops CD 202 Brigid: Bookending bar scenes, throws up, wanders streets CD 203 36 hours earlier (still night time, wrong timestamp) DD 307 Matt recaps with Maggie CD 202 Mayhem: Crime scene DD 307 Bulletin Crime Scene CD 202 Tandy: blows up at Mikayla CD 202 Tyrone: Visits Auntie, shows Evita his powers DD 307 Matt visits Betsy CD 202: Tandy dances and reflects DD 307 to end DD 308 Julie is killed CD 202 Tandy: Meets Andre, envisions her dad CD 202 Tyrone: Attempts Veve, Shows up in ambulance CD 202 Mayhem: Visits victim’s home CD 202 Tandy: Missing Posters, Goes to Mikayla @ hospital DD 308 Nadeem leaves Dex with lawyer CD 202 Tyrone: Tries veve again, Evita shows up, Hospital CD 202 Tandy: Meets Mayhem at Ambulance sight, Mayhem kills driver CD 202 Tyrone: Finds Brigid, appears when Mayhem kills driver CD 203 Trio regroups at church DD 308 Foggy rescues Karen CD 203 Mina and Mayhem’s hideout DD 308 Felix picks up Dex CD 203 Mayhem with Delgado DD 308 Nadeem stitches himself CD 203 Strip club confrontation DD 308 Fisk consoles Dex CD 203 Ambulance aftermath DD 308 Matt hears Maggie CD 203 to end CD 204 Tandy’s idea DD 309 Matt confronts Father Lantom CD 204 Police Station DD 309 Nadeem is framed I'm not going to spend too much time going through this, I'll just let you know once we've worked it all out. And I'll let you know when I've posted the timings of Cloak & Dagger: Season 2, Episodes 2 and 3, which will be very soon, next day or two.

Marvelus wrote: Jessica Jones S3 synopsis came out recently and said that Trish had her new recently adquired powers. I know every Netflix show acts as if they were separate by a few months, but we could use this to potentially place Jessica Jones S3 in Late 2017. So we would have Cloak & Dagger S2, Iron Fist S2, Daredevil S3 and Jessica Jones S3 happening at the same time... Wow!! Yeah, it's very possible this is another "Last season was recent... Over a year ago". It would be good to avoid the Snap and also when Loeb inevitably says it's pre-Snap it would be nice to actually be able to fit that, though it would admittedly be annoying to have a) four simultaneous shows' events and b) break the Netflix chronological order at the last minute.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (me, Marvelus, Rman823, Greater good, DaenerysTheMadKhal58)
BEJT wrote: I haven't watched the episode yet but I've just seen a clip from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. where Enoch says they are planning to orbit Jupiter for another 72 years, 312 days (before leaving for the Lighthouse to deliver Fitz). This would mean it can't be later than February 18, 2019, which doesn't work.

I don't really know what to do about this. I've seen it now. Still don't know what to do.

Marvelus wrote: It's all a mess. I remember when Elledy predicted that like the comics, the continuity in the MCU will get ignored, but maybe we may have to consider the team returning in Early-mid 2018 and Episode 5 of Season 5 being set in December 2017. BEJT wrote: This has nothing to do with Rewind or when they return. The reason it's no later than February 18, 2019 is because the latest Fitz could possibly wake up is December 27, 2091, and February 18, 2019 is 72 years, 312 days before that. Also as mentioned before, I'm still working on a full updated analysis of the 2018 problem. But no, as I explain in that analysis, no matter what they return in December 2017.

Marvelus wrote: Can you explain it to me again? xD, I just watched first episode. BEJT wrote:
 * Fitz goes to sleep for approximately "74 years" (doesn't have to literally be 74 years, 0 days).
 * The team are in "Earth Year 2-0-9-1" in Season 5, Part 1. Plus that's supported by the 2017 + "74 years later". If they left the future as early as possible, December 31, 2091 (you could just about make the argument that maybe they were only sent to 2091 and were there into the first few days of 2092 but there's no indication of this and it doesn't really help to just gain a few days), then since Fitz wakes 4 days prior, the latest he can possibly have woken is December 27, 2091.
 * The opening scene of Season 6, where Enoch and Fitz are attacked, is "73 years, 261 days" before Fitz wakes up, but even if Fitz were to wake as late as possible, December 27, 2091, the latest this scene could be is then April 10, 2018. Except the scene is implied to a) be after The End, just due to the way these stories are told, and b) in the new timeline. I've been making notes about the exact details of what happened after the ship was split in two to try and work out a way that this could have also happened in the original timeline and the divergence point only occurred a while after the ship is split, at the time of The End.
 * But now, Enoch also says that as of Season 6, Episode 3, he plans to orbit Jupiter for another "72 years, 312 days". So the latest Season 6, Episode 3 could possibly be, if Fitz were to wake on the latest possible date of December 27, 2091, is February 18, 2019. But the show is 13 months on from Season 5 (true, they didn't explicitly say it's the one-year anniversary of Coulson's death but it's very strongly implied in Episode 1), and Season 5 cannot take place in February 2018.

I wonder if this is because they saw the January 2018 placement on the wiki timeline when they started to write Season 6. But again, it's not our fault if they blindly trusted the wiki, and also, the 2091 stuff didn't have to be December. They could have given themselves more leniency if they just said 100andsomething days, allowing you to add from whatever dates the events are taking place and still end up in 2091. Marvelus wrote: I see. I am kind of bussy with University, but I will see how we can crack that puzzle. Good luck with university.

Rman823 wrote: Between the time Fitz should be frozen and the C&D mess with flashbacks this week, it's obvious that Loeb doesn't care about a cohesive timeline with the shows. I guess he figures most of the audience doesn't pay attention and could care less. It's the same reason I'm sure he'll use the "pre snap" argument for every future season of a show he is involved in. Even if it doesn't make sense. Marvelus wrote: Don't be too hard on Loeb. We don't if it is his choice, and I am fairly sure that at one point the TV Shows will address the Snap. They just have to find the best way to make it fit. Greater good wrote: It already doesn't fit, though. He and the rest of the cast and crew keep saying that Season 6 takes place before the Snap, which makes absolutely no sense because the last few episodes of Season 5 clearly took place around the same time as Infinity War and now it's a year later. BEJT wrote: Loeb isn't behind that kind of thing. He's different to Feige (and Feige isn't really behind that kind of thing either), in that what he shepherds is more disparate - a chunk is Netflix, a chunk (now just one show) is ABC, Cloak & Dagger is kind of its own thing, Runaways is kind of its own thing, he's got the new Spirits of Vengeance chunk apparently happening, plus he works on non-MCU stuff like Legion and The Gifted - and also that he isn't governing the Marvel Cinematic Universe in the way Feige is. The combination of these things means Feige is overseeing one large franchise and its convergences and overlaps and where everything is at at any given point and is the one setting the Marvel Cinematic Universe out. Loeb is overseeing mini-franchises (and several of them) within a larger franchise more than Feige is because it's not like the TV stuff is all headed in one direction and is beholden to Feige's laws essentially.

I do have a problem with his sometimes feeble excuses and the way he phrased the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. thing, but he's in a difficult position. Marvelus wrote: It is after the Snap. And they will make that way when the time comes. The continuity is fine. Greater good wrote: So then why are the cast and crew saying otherwise? BEJT wrote: My message was just a response to Rman823.

As I've said before on the discussion, I have a problem with the specific comment about leaving it to timeline people to work it out for them. And I think they should've just explained it as "It's been a year and they've moved on".

I think they decided on this excuse because they thought, "Most people won't think too much about that problem, so then we don't have to deal with people criticising the improbability of them all surviving and moving on if we just say it's before the Snap - most people will be satisfied and it is an easy answer." DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: Since those two scenes take place after the timeline is changed, maybe we can just ignore those statements since in this timeline they don't actually make it to the future? Like, maybe in this new timeline, Fitz would have woken up on 2092 for some reason? Unfortunately, no. They don't know the timeline has changed. They think they have to get back into cryo-freeze to get to the team in 2091. From their perspective, this is purely following on from Rewind. Enoch told him they're in 2091. Fitz went to sleep, but they were attacked a while later. They have to get back to the chamber so they can continue to wait until 2091.

Marvelus wrote: That is a clever resolution. I wish it could work. The only things I can think of are:
 * Enoch is talking about these aliens' "years", not Earth years (it can't be Jupiter years because one Jupiter year is 12 Earth years, 1200% when you want 99%). This is highly unlikely, as the universal translators are in play and one would surmise from that that it converts the units as well (the same reason I don't think Thanos' "almost 20 years" line is Zen-Whoberi years and not Earth years), but also it would be very coincidental for the aliens' years to be so close to Earth years, as well as the number of days in the year to be similar.
 * Enoch plans on returning to Jupiter for a bit after the Lighthouse events, perhaps to wait for the hopeful reconstruction of Earth, and he's adding the two lengths of time. This is really reaching. It also doesn't account for the Episode 1 261 days line - sure, that can be separately dealt with as I've mentioned, with its own stretch of the imagination working out how it could fit into the stem timeline for the first couple of months after it, but that's also a stretch and it seems odd to not have the Episode 1 and Episode 3 scenes 314 days apart when they couple like that. And if this happens again, it doesn't account for that either.
 * Season 5, Episodes 1-4 span a few months. They arrive in late December 2091 but by Episode 4 it's Spring 2092. Fitz wakes a few days before he arrives in Episode 4, so he wakes in Spring 2092, thereby allowing the opening scene of Season 6 to be after the timeline split and Season 6 to be Spring/Summer 2019, because the date they are due to wake is later. But there's no way Episodes 1-4 span a few months.

Maybe we can do something with the fact that it's a new timeline somehow meaning Enoch is planning for 2092 instead, but I don't see how.

By the way, the episode also says Fitz died over a year ago, so now we do have explicit confirmation that it's over a year since Season 5.

BEJT wrote: I'll respond to stuff later.

I'm rewatching last week's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before I watch Episode 3, and paused on the magazines in the store at the beginning to see if I could place them.

The ones I could make out, I got: Marvelus wrote: Hahahaha As for what it means for the timeline: not much. It's the issues from when they filmed it. Personally, if I were them I would make some fake covers because obviously you can't predict what the July 2019 or whatever magazine cover will be, but the magazines don't have to match the real world so if you make a fake cover it could be any date. But it's more effort, I get just using those magazines. We can just assume them old.
 * The August 2018 issue of Vogue with Saoirse Ronan on the cover.
 * The August 2018 issue of GQ with Travis Scott and Kylie Jenner on the cover.
 * The August 2018 issue of Cosmopolitan with Mila Kunis on the cover.
 * And the Summer 2018 issue of Esquire with...   Chadwick Boseman on the cover😂😂😂.

I also jotted down the exact quotes from that yellow leaflet:
 * "WHISKEY LIQUOR ESTABLISHMENT hereby declares its intention(s) to apply for a Retail Drink License, Sunday Sales and N64 Retail Malt Beverage Drink License no later than Sept. 20, 2018."
 * "SALE OF CAIRE ESTATE: COMMISSIONER'S SALE CAIRE CIRCUIT COURT Case No. 5254234 Division II Nationstar Real ESTATE LLC dba Mortgage Company PLAINTIFF vs. MATTHEW JOSEPH DEFENDANTS BY VIRTUE OF A JUDGMENT RENDERED JULY 17, 2018. BY THE CITY JUDGE, IN THE ABOVE CAUSE I SHALL PROCEED TO OFFER FOR SALE At the CAIRE ESTATE Court House Door550 Yorkshire Street To the highest or best bidder at public auction on Tuesday, August 14, 2018, at 10:00 a.m.."

It's not clear to me what the leaflet is, but it seems very possible to me that it's not new.

Avengers: Endgame Rewatch (additional)
I forgot to mention, I saw Endgame a second time on Monday. Aside from a further quote about the way this alternate timeline stuff works which I caught - I've gone into that on the thread discussing all that mess - there were just a few more things I caught: Otherwise the film is pretty spot on with its timeline.
 * The Wakanda scene at the end is I believe a full moon, which would suggest (if it's c. June/July 2023) it's the night of June 3rd or July 3rd locally, so June 3rd or July 3rd daytime U.S..
 * Alexander Pierce says they've had the Tesseract for about 70 years. However, I didn't catch if he says a word before "70". I have a feeling he either says "almost" or "over". I will obviously look out for it the next time I watch in a few weeks. "Over" would of course be a mistake, but it doesn't matter, the film explicitly says "1945" and "2012".
 * In Tony's final recorded message, he says something like "If you told me 10 years ago that we weren't alone in the universe, I..." something something. I think he doesn't actually say "I wouldn't have believed you" as you would expect, he says something a bit more complicated. Again, I'll try to pick up on it more next time. But obviously that doesn't really work, since 2013 was 10 years ago, after he had encountered aliens. It doesn't matter because again, the film explicitly says "2012" and "9 years" after "2014". You can't really say "He's rounding" in this case because it's not that he's referring to a time before he would've believed: 2011 or early 2012, he's specifically constraining all his alien encounters to the last 10.0 years. But oh well, and also the quote might actually work when I catch it all.

As for how many days pass: 5 years later. Overall maybe 3 weeks start to finish?
 * Thursday, day of the Snap
 * Hawkeye opening.
 * Thursday, 21 days after the Snap
 * Captain Marvel credits scene.
 * It takes Carol only about 12 hours or so to transport Tony back, so she could leave the day before she picks him up.
 * Thanos destroys the Infinity Stones.
 * 2 days before 23 days after the Snap.
 * Friday, 22 days after the Snap
 * Carols saves Tony.
 * Tony says it's Day 22. Assuming Day 1 was the day after the Snap and not the day of, because Tony cannot take more than a day to get back, otherwise he'd run out of oxygen as there's less than a day left of that, and after he gets back it's 23 days since the Snap, so it can't really only be 21 days after currently.
 * Friday/Saturday, 22/23 days after the Snap
 * Carol returns Tony.
 * Saturday, 23 days after the Snap
 * The team discuss what to do. They head to space.
 * Said to be 23 days. Said that Thanos destroyed the stones 2 days ago.
 * The team kill Thanos.
 * Again said that Thanos destroyed the stones 2 days ago, so still the same day.
 * Day 1
 * Support group.
 * Scott gets out.
 * Day 5
 * Natasha in the facility.
 * Scott tells them his idea.
 * Would take about 4 days to travel from San Francisco.
 * Day 6
 * Visit Tony.
 * Hulk diner.
 * Tony cracks it.
 * Day 7
 * Test with Scott.
 * Tony arrives.
 * Day 8
 * Pick up Thor.
 * Tokyo.
 * A few days pass to build the platform. Then Time Heist through to Tony's death.
 * Then a montage, Clint returns to his family, Peter returns to school, fireworks over San Francisco, and Wakanda at night. Assuming these are all roughly the same day, it should be June 3rd rather than July 3rd, for Peter to be back at school. It's weird if they're the same day because Clint would want to return to his family immediately and the fireworks would presumably be only the next day or two, but I imagine schools took a while to get going again.
 * Then the funeral.
 * Then I think it's Thor with Valkyrie and the Guardians.
 * Then I think it's just the ending, which should be a little while later due to building the platform again.