Thread:Elledy92/@comment-26838855-20190425183005/@comment-26838855-20190504193239

Teen Titans Forever! wrote: He said that was his theory and clearly the Russo Brothers have another.

Unless the directors and writers are just messing with us all and if so then we can't trust none of them unless the Loki alternate 2012 is still alive/or Steve creating an alternate reality are proven or disproven. I'm focusing more on the Steve thing here, but yeah, going to wait at this point.

Spenpiano wrote: I agree Elledy92 wrote: I'll go with what the directors said. Onestly, they contradict themselves when they say that the timeline is only changed when an Infinity Stones is moved, when in one of their first response they spefically say that every jump create a "Biff's casino timeline moment". That's not what they say. a) They're just talking about the Time Heists, and b) They're saying that they couldn't follow the "Biff's casino" way.

Wolvesboy87 wrote: Yeah this all seems extremely suspicious. The Russo brothers say one thing and the writers now say another. I still believe in my personal opinion that the Russo brothers are correct and that Cap went into a alternate reality but who knows? As the month's go by we will find out I assume. We'll find out. Obviously I'm more inclined to take the Markus and McFeely route because it aligns with my theory and better with the way the Ancient One scene is written, but I'm not asserting that "This settles it", it's fairly even until further details, as I'll get into.

Teen Titans Forever! wrote: They had to have made a alternate reality even by just back in the time because things were altered and those "branches" had nothing to do with the infinity stones being taken to another reality. According to the Russos, not according to Markus and McFeely.

Teen Titans Forever! wrote: I think the directors are right because they wanted time travel in Endgame more than the writers apparently so maybe the writers were just told what to write in explaining the rules and the writers just didn't get like the Russo Brothers. The writers said their theory was that Steve did a time loop but the directors basically said Steve definitely created an alternate reality....

...so who's more confident? Writers should usually take precedent due to them constructing the way the film works and is told. Only reason they shouldn't necessarily take precedent here is they come across as slightly less confident, bringing them to an equal playing field.

The Wikia Editor wrote: It's tough to say who might be more correct. On the bright side, they did say Steve traveled to "about '48", so at least the events of Agent Carter aren't being ignored. They were producers on Agent Carter so this isn't surprising - but it's good nonetheless.

Marvelus wrote: It is relative to say who is more confident. Objectively, it should be M&M as they wrote the story. The Russos brought it to life with the script and with other thoughts on mind, but overall the writers set up the storyline as a whole. Yeah, just Markus and McFeely are more cautious in their explanation and so it's about even in this case.

Teen Titans Forever! wrote: I think the Russo Brothers wanted time travel and told M&M to write the time travel scene how they (Russo Brothers) want it to be explain and M&M just didn't understood the rules they were writing. M&M don't seem that interested in time travel like how the Russo Brothers are when explaining it so I think the Russo Brothers know all the answers and the writers actually didn't. We are getting a Loki series after all so if that series follows the alternate Loki from 2012 then the Russo Brothers are clearly right.

Currently I feel like it's up to interpretation how time travel works in the MCU but that can't last for long or at least it shouldn't.

Maybe for the commentary the directors and writers will have a debate on how they believe it works... There's no reason to believe they didn't understand the rules they were writing. They reached out to scientists to make sure they got it right, their use of "theory" here is more just them saying, "We left it slightly up to interpretation but this is the way we see it."

The writers wrote the film. It's like saying Tolkien knows less about the way The Lord of the Rings ' s story works than someone else. The only reason they don't necessarily take precedent here is their slightly less strong assertion than the Russos.

MJLogan95 wrote: It's honestly .... stupid for the writers & directors to have different ideas on how the major plot point worked as well as the ending to a major character's arc.

They should really work together more cohesively. Especially the Russos. They disregarded James Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy by making Gamora's people still be alive & flourishing like Thanos said, whereas the 2014 GoTG film established Gamora as the last of her species. The Nova Corps database claims she is the last survivor of the Zehoberei people & she even says herself that Thanos killed her race.

When asked during a Q&A, Joe Russo just responded: "Who are you gonna believe, her [Gamora] or Thanos?" which a) isn't really answering the question, and b) basically is saying, "who are you gonna believe, us or James Gunn?" One of the biggest films of all time and they couldn't coordinate the main premise's rules...

We don't know that the Russos disregarded it, it could've just been considered by Marvel to be an acceptable continuity fudge.

Also the Q&A answer wasn't meant to pit them against James Gunn, it was just them dodging the question under the guise of being mysterious because they definitely seemed blindsided by the question.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: James Gunn himself said if he could go back to Guardians 1, he'd remove that little tidbit about Gamora, and he provided the dialogue for all of the Guardians in both Infinity War and Endgame. You're acting as if the Russos bullied him out of creative control, when that is the farthest thing from the truth. Didn't know he'd said that.

Teen Titans Forever! wrote: Thanos doesn't lie so her people must still be alive. I always rationalised it as "Either Thanos is lying to manipulate" (which we now know is likely not true) "or the Nova Corps have bad information". Guess it's the Nova Corps having bad information, which seems hard to swallow but OK.

MJLogan95 wrote: No, that's not at all what I said. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm well aware Gunn was an executive producer on Infinity War and credited as such for Endgame ; Markus-McFeely wrote the dialogue but Gunn looked it over & rewrote parts in order to make sure the Guardians transitioed from his films to the Avengers seamlessly.

Gunn has implied he now wishes that line was not there only because of Infinity War contradicting this. The point I was making was that the Russos' answer to the retcon was stupid & dismissive in my opinion.

I don't see where you got the "bullying" from. MJLogan95 wrote: Either that, or he was wrong. Not the same thing as lying.

He thought by eliminating half of the universe's population, the remaining half would be grateful & would flourish. While we did not see the other worlds, Earth as we knew it stood still & struggled to move on. There were disturbances & civilian unrest, and Captain Marvel told the other Avengers that all the bad things that were happening on Earth were happening elsewhere. This is something 2014 Thanos realized once he time-traveled; that his plan was wrong, because the people did not flourish.

Basically, after killing half of them, he believed the other half flourished. He wasn't lying, it's maybe more-so that he never checked back on her people & the other half of them ended up extinct afterwards. They may retcon this in Vol. 3 but as of right now... True, maybe Thanos was wrong. Maybe he's just assuming his plan always works.

Marvelus wrote: Well. It has gotten retconned. MJLogan95 wrote: Gunn spoke during a panel last year & discussed retconning it in Vol. 3 which would mean that Infinity War didn't exactly retcon it? Or at least Gunn didn't view it as a retcon, hence why he is considering doing so? Hence why at the moment I'm taking it as Thanos simply telling us something contradictory simply because he doesn't know the truth. He killed half of the Zen-Whoberei people & believed that the remaining half would be grateful & flourish, being unaware that Gamora is considered the last of her people; he never checked back on their status & thus did not realize the remaining half died out. If you're referring to that comment he made about deliberating retconning something from the Nova Corps rap sheet in Vol. 3, I'm under the impression that that comment was not necessarily to do with this. My personal theory is that he wants to introduce Lylla but act like Rocket doesn't know her.

Pros and cons list (not including personal favourite things like the Russos for Sousa or Markus and McFeely for it being more poetic):
 * Russos' explanation
 * Pros
 * It works, aside from missing extra information.
 * The Russos have acknowledged that the information is needed, so it's not wrong.
 * The Russos seem more confident.
 * Cons
 * It's not the way the film is written.
 * It requires extra information we don't have.
 * They're only the directors not writers.
 * Markus and McFeely's explanation
 * Pros
 * It works aside from one fudge-y explanation over why the splits only occurring in the Infinity Stone-removing travels seem to begin before the Stones have actually been removed.
 * It's the way the film is written.
 * They're the writers who constructed the story.
 * Bonus: They took the care to say 1948.
 * Cons
 * They are less assertive/confident in their comment.
 * There is a slight (explainable) fudge involved.