Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26838855-20190803131136/@comment-26838855-20191011005201

Spider-Man in the Future of the MCU and SUoMC (DaenerysTheMadKhal58, Assassin1and2, CirUmeUela, Ben 1,000,911, Aricco)
DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: Feige's quote: "He also happens to be the only hero with the superpower to cross cinematic universes, so as Sony continues to develop their own Spidey-verse you never know what surprises the future might hold.”

Makes me think that the SUMC will definitely stay separate from the MCU, regardless of Holland being Spider-Man in both. The phrasing is vague. The fact that he says "cinematic universes" rather than "universes" might suggest this is more about Tom Holland appearing as Spider-Man in different cinematic universes rather than literally crossing universes in the stories.

I can't keep up with the mess of what is or isn't happening with Tom Holland appearing in the SUoMC, I'm just going to wait for it to all settle.

Assassin1and2 wrote: "He also happens to be the only hero with the superpower to cross cinematic universes, so as Sony continues to develop their own Spidey-verse you never know what surprises the future might hold.”

I am a bit worried by this, does this mean no symbiote in MCU. What's the deal on other Spider-Man related characters which Sony is using in their films. The deal has been for a while now that Sony seem to basically claim certain characters for their SUoMC films so they won't end up used by Marvel in the MCU - Venom, Carnage, Morbius, Kraven, Black Cat, Silver Sable, Jackpot, Nighthawk, Madame Web. Theoretically those characters could still appear in the MCU, but Sony seem to not want confusion by lending them to Marvel as well as using them themselves, plus I think they desperately hope they can canonise their films to the MCU so won't want big contradictions.

CirUmeUela wrote: With Feige saying that and with rumors of them wanting to make a Madam Webb movie, I get the feeling that Tom Holland's Spider-Man will indeed show up in the Sony verse, but through an inter-dimensional portal. So the Sony verse will definitely not be MCU but a parallel universe that Spider-Man will go to. Whether this means there will be a Miles Morales or something in the Sony verse, I don't know but I feel like this might happen.

I also wonder what other MCU movie Tom Holland will show up in. Nothing announced so far seems obvious. So maybe Doctor Strange 2? Maybe that's where he will get caught up in the multiverse and end up in the Sony verse? Personally, I really hope the character doesn't literally cross over into that universe, because that still connects the SUoMC to the MCU and makes it part of his character biography and part of the list of things to watch/read for the full story.

Ideal situation to worst case scenario:
 * 1) Tom Holland never appears in the SUoMC.
 * 2) Tom Holland Spider-Man appears in the SUoMC but it's a J. K. Simmons situation where it's the same actor playing the same character but not literally the same character.
 * 3) Tom Holland's MCU Spider-Man literally crosses universes into the SUoMC.
 * 4) The SUoMC becomes part of the MCU.

And I don't think any of the films coming up in the next 2 years make sense for him to appear in, but it seems his appearance will be post-Spider-Man 3 anyway. So one of the confirmed ones after that: Thor: Love and Thunder, Blade, Black Panther II, Captain Marvel 2, or Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, or just something not yet confirmed. Of those ones, the most likely options seem to be Blade, Black Panther II, or Captain Marvel 2.

Ben 1,000,911 wrote: Could just be on hold for the future. Waiting for the Fantastic Four movie to be confirmed so Spidey goes in there? Idk Perhaps. Also, thank you, people have assumed that since Feige said that the Fantastic Four are coming that a Fantastic Four film is confirmed. I'm yet to find any confirmation.

Aricco wrote: Maybe he could show up in Ms. Marvel? That would be cool, but wouldn't be part of this deal. This deal allows for one other film. The contracts for shows are separate, not interchangeable.

The Daily Bugle Site (Mrmichaelt, Edward Zachary Sunrose, Elledy92, Assassin1and2)
Mrmichaelt wrote: The Daily Bugle site was updated about Jack, the stunt guy saying he committed fraud about being snapped back and injured. Probably because articles called out the fact that it didn't really line up with Feige's comments😂.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: The original statement said he blipped midway through a six-story stunt fall (aka around the third story), a third story fall can definitely injure you but it wouldn't necessarily kill you, so I never thought it contradicted Feige's statement about Hulk blipping everyone back somewhere safe, since the dude didn't die from snapping back three stories up. Especially after we saw one of the band members be trampled by a basketball player, meaning safety was a relative term.

But I guess it makes sense to reveal he was making fraudulent all along. Do we know if his name is someone from the comics? I agree, I didn't have much of a problem with it either for the same reason, he wasn't going to come back only to die. But works better if he properly came back safely.

Mrmichaelt wrote: I thought so, too, but couldn't find anything. Maybe someone who worked at Marvel Comics or some on the movie crew. I thought about the movie title but realized a second later, probably an Endgame nod. Elledy92 wrote: So in the MCU the raid happened in 2024 instead of 2019. Curious. Yeah, mentioned that above. I feel like the MCU just went on hold for at least a chunk of that 5 years, where pop culture and similar things just hit pause.

I mean, the real reason is probably just that whoever made this website wasn't thinking too much about it.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: It's curious that it even happened in the MCU at all. The reason it happened in our world (outside of it being a joke that got way out of hand) was because people desperately wanted concrete proof of the existence of aliens, or of alien tech.

The MCU at large has known about aliens since 2012, and every single alien species we've met so far would EASILY escape something like Area 51. And presumably, the Avengers' close ties with the Guardians and Captain Marvel would result in some of their technology being brought over to Earth. So there's seemingly no reason why the raid should've happened at all in the MCU. Yeah, exactly. I think someone at Sony marketing went "We need some ideas for some fake articles. We're making him a conspiracy theory fringe online video blogger? The Area 51 raid, the kids like that, that's a hot topic at the moment."

Assassin1and2 wrote: The Snap delayed it lmao.

On the topic of the The Daily Bugle site, we obviously now also have the second video from there, of Flash in London, which can also be considered canon. Wonder if there'll be more.

Avengers: Damage Control (CirUmeUela, Assassin1and2, Nox23, Edward Zachary Sunrose)
CirUmeUela wrote: So this Damage Conrol VR game is definitely not canon right, because that would be weird. But it does make me wonder why there isn't some kind of program like this in the MCU. Vibranium Iron Man type suits is an interesting concept. Kevin Feige said this apparently, but that doesn't mean it's canon:

"We’re always looking for new stories and corners of the universe for our characters to explore. Now, after more than a decade of amazing support, we are excited to give fans the same opportunity: to be a part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Expanding how people can experience the MCU is something we’re always trying to do, and in Avengers: Damage Control, we wanted to give fans the chance to suit up alongside some their favorite heroes for the first time ever.” Yeah so this was a surprise and unclear announcement. I hope it's not canon because I think it's a very limited experience (I don't know much about VR games/experiences and all that) and I don't really see how a video game, which doesn't have one set order of events, can be canon. And the MCU feels like it's got really messy in the last few months with the Disney+ shows, the unclear/inconsistent order of how the Disney+ shows will come out alongside the films, the unclear/inconsistent information about what comprises Phase Four, the start of all the multiverse, the lack of feeling of structure and drive to the upcoming content, the various problems Marvel Television are going through including the cancellation of Ghost Rider, the Spider-Man debacle, the problem of the SUoMC. I don't need another messy thing.

Assassin1and2 wrote: Well it's produced by Marvel Studios and not Marvel Entertainment who usually produce stuff like this so it would appear that it is meant to be a canon side story. And Kevin Feige suggests that it is set within MCU. Nox23 wrote: I would call it as much canon as the GotG ride at Disneyland. Still a really cool concept though I hope it'll be available near me Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Seems like it's just an exhibit/ride where you go into an interactive VR bit. Like Nox23 said, I think it'll end up being as canon as the Collector's museum exhibit. AKA not really at all. Assassin1and2 wrote: Well Feige never claimed that the Guardians ride is MCU nor is it produced by Marvel Studios. Our opinions are irrelevant. Only what Marvel Studios says matters. From the latest trailer, it doesn't look like it's possible for it to be canon, fortunately, as there's no place in the MCU timeline it could take place.


 * Before Civil War?
 * Spider-Man isn't friends with the heroes and doesn't have this suit, Wasp doesn't have her suit, Black Panther isn't friends with the heroes and doesn't have this suit, the heroes don't know Doctor Strange and he isn't a proper sorcerer yet, Hulk is off-world.
 * Between Civil War and Ant-Man and the Wasp?
 * Scott is under house arrest and not in contact with Hope, Hulk is off-world, the heroes don't know Doctor Strange.
 * Between Ant-Man and the Wasp and Infinity War?
 * Hulk is off-world, the heroes don't know Doctor Strange.
 * Between Infinity War and Endgame?
 * Spider-Man, Wasp, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, and Falcon are all dead, Hulk has stopped coming out and Bruce eventually becomes Smart Hulk, not normal Hulk.
 * Between Endgame and Far from Home?
 * Peter seems to use the Iron Spider suit in this time, Hulk looks like Professor Hulk rather than this Hulk.
 * After Far from Home?
 * Peter is a fugitive and his blue suit has been blown up/he has a black suit now, Hulk looks like Professor Hulk rather than this Hulk.

It would have to be set either: or All of that is a lot of assumption, and would be bizarre.
 * Between Endgame and Far from Home and, without us knowing, it turns out Smart Hulk actually went back to normal Hulk in this time for some reason, plus Peter did in fact use his red and blue suit in this time
 * Some time after Far from Home, presumably after the events of Spider-Man 3 and Peter is no longer a fugitive, and for some reason he has started wearing a copy of his old suit, and Hulk has gone back to normal Hulk.

Actors Playing Characters a Lot Younger Than Them (additional)
Just thought this was worth noting. I wasn't really aware of Brad Davis until Far from Home was just about to come out, so when Remy Hii, who plays him, turned up at the premiere, I assumed he was playing one of the teachers, because he looked like he was about 30. And then I found out he was playing a student and was surprised, but felt that in the actual film, it's not that unconvincing. But I thought the other day that I'd look up his age out of interest. He was about 32.08487 at the time of filming Far from Home (he's only 4 years younger than Martin Starr who plays Mr. Harrington😂). At most, Brad is 16.99178 in Far from Home, so Hii is playing no more than 0.52959 × his age. Thought it was interesting because it's probably now beaten Amanda Suk being about 31.1 playing no more than 16.997, so about 0.55 × her age as Amy Minoru, as the furthest (by percentage/fraction/decimal, whatever) from the actual actor's age in the MCU for someone playing a human with normal ageing.

Peter's To-Do List and How It Affects Things (additional)
You can watch Peter's To-Do List here. Still no passport shot. However, Ned asks Peter what he'll be doing on his last day in New York, implying that they leave tomorrow. This would imply that the events currently on July 2nd are June 27th, etc. to the end of the main events on July 7th being July 2nd. Except that's particularly far off from the dates we have been given. With the passport in the trailer, the posters, and recently the social media post of the passport as well - plus the fact that schools were so disrupted providing a fairly plausible reason for why school might finish 3 weeks later in the MCU in 2024 than you would otherwise assumed, I'm wondering if it might be worth adjusting for the provided dates after all. So July 24th for when Peter arrives in Berlin and the others arrive in London, the current July 6th events. Therefore July 2nd would become July 20th, and the last day of school and picking up the passport would become July 19th, lining up nicely with the fact that it should be the 19th or shortly after according to the trailer and social media post. It's a Friday, which works for the end of school.

The annoying thing being that this has a knock-on effect on Avengers: Endgame, taking it slightly implausibly to November, 5½ years on from the Snap and meaning that the supposed factual "October 2023" dates put onto the pages have to be changed - probably best to just "Fall 2023" for sticking to undeniable fact. Plus I'll have to have another look at the dates and how things change for a move to November.

I don't know, any input? I do think that I am personally probably leaning toward the main events of the film starting on July 19th rather than June 26th, now.

Jessica Jones Auction (additional)
Jessica Jones is getting an auction now like Daredevil, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist did, so will be sure to keep an eye out for it. Wonder if/when they'll do The Punisher.

Runaways Time Travel (additional)
At 22:48 in an NYCC Q&A, Allegra Acosta let slip that the Runaways "time t-" in Season 3, but then Stephanie Savage just went ahead and quietly fully confirmed it, "there's time travel". Yay, more time travel... was hoping for a break, until Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 7😂.

They also discuss in the Q&A how Karolina and Chase are in the tubes (until they get out, Gregg Sulkin revealed and then realised he probably shouldn't have), it does seem like it will pick up shortly after Season 2 as expected, which is promising considering they have a 4-month window left to squeeze into if they want to avoid the Snap. Even if it means that the already-too-old actors are going to continue looking even further above their characters' supposed ages.

Helstrom Filming (additional)
Helstrom is filming now, which is good news. Judging by the turnaround with Runaways, being the only current MCU Hulu show to compare against, we should probably expect a Spring 2020 release.

Michelle "Jones" (additional)
Just because we recently discussed how it was very hard to find any official source on MJ's surname being Jones - though The Wikia Editor did find one at least from 2019 - I just thought it was worth mentioning that at 16:53 here, Tony Revolori calls her Michelle Jones. Far from an official source and he doesn't seem certain, he could also have just picked it up over time like so many people, but still, someone involved with the film saying it, thought some of you might like to know.

My Time Travel Blog Is Done! (additional)
What started as a small project probably back in May/June, just to compile and sort some of the contradictory quotes, turned over the last few months into an ever-growing project - discovering that I did in fact have to go through and find and dissect all the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. quotes when I found out that the rules there aren't actually universally agreed on, finding as I wrote that I had more and more spiralling thoughts about "But if this were this way then that would require this to this, so I need to add writing about this to this bit which then means copying this bit to here and connecting this bit to this bit", etc. etc.. It grew and grew and was so sprawling (you should see my handwritten notes trying to structure the 42 (fitting, for something about trying to understand how the universe works - for any of you Douglas Adams fans) questions' connections into something coherent).

It's been arduous and exhausting and boring and long and felt like it would never end, and has taken a lot of my wiki working time over the summer, a lot more than expected as the project grew. But I'm really happy it's actually done - it felt like I would never finish it - and it's uploaded.

It's not perfect, for reasons I note in the intro (developing my understanding of how I would write it as I go so some bits being better than others, trying to be impartial but maybe not quite as charitable as I could be in places). But I genuinely did try to just let the flow of the blog's structure take me to whatever results it gave, at no point did I consciously try to skew any results to my pre-existing interpretations.

I found even more problems and even more points relating to everything, and feel like my brain has been wrung like a sponge. But it's done, and it's up. And the main functions are twofold:
 * To achieve some clarity over what the sources seem, in my opinion at least, to overall point to being the rules in all the complicated scenarios.
 * But also, to just serve as a resource. Even if you disagree with the conclusions, it's a resource for collating and sorting all the quotes over time and all the questions, problems, interesting points, queries, flaws, and complications over all of it. And it will continue to be updated, and conclusions adjusted accordingly, over time as more information comes out. As the final question lays out, none of this is set in stone. Each conclusion is, I feel, the way things currently point, but that doesn't mean they will forever.

I think writing this has also given me a little more peace of mind over it all. It's felt like I'll be talking about old Captain America until the day I die. Well, now like the "8 years later" blog, I can just provide a link instead of rehashing everything. But also, I have put into place a system with in-built flexibility that is open to adapt and change and just express flaws in different interpretations and how much credence is currently behind each possibility, so if things do change, I might be more relaxed about it knowing that I still have all of the structure and explanation in there for why things pointed a certain way at a certain time and now point another certain way, or whatever.

And I'm really not trying to kick off any more debating here about how Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. ' s 2091 is the future of the universe until they branch off in 2018, not some entirely separate universe, or how Steve lived out his life with Peggy in the main timeline. I started writing this blog months ago, this isn't something that I've just come up with in the last few weeks as a "Ha! Here's my counterargument!", and ideally it would have been finished weeks ago. It just happens to be that I am finishing it now, when it might accidentally get perceived that way. It's not that. We're all exhausted by the debating and I don't want to have that debate.

All I'm saying is, I've finished the first version of a blog I put a lot of work into and I'm happy, and that it does contain the most thorough exploration of what formed by views but is not meant as some sort of argument, it tries to be impartial but I can't know how well I achieved that, but at the very least I think it's a good resource and attempt.

Here it is: Time Travel, Timelines, the Multiverse, and Related Topics: The Marvel Cinematic Universe's Rules.