Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26838855-20190803131136/@comment-26838855-20190808233849

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: I'm only going to bring this up one last time, but yes. Agree to disagree.

Hulk's explanation to Rhodey about "changing the past cannot change the future" clearly establishes alternate timelines, and clearly sets up that every single trip we see is in fact a new branch off of the main timeline. But there's a difference between changing time and travelling in time. He never says that if you travel in time you create an alternate timeline. Hulk's points boil down to:
 * You can't change time.
 * If you were to change time, then it wouldn't be a rewriting of the timeline, i.e. the implication that isn't actually said by him is an alternate timeline.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: The Ancient One's explanation to Hulk about branches is only in relation to possible negative futures opened up by removing the Stones, from an already existing branch (in the Ancient One's hypothetical, this was likely alternate 2012 being vulnerable to Dormammu in 2017 because Hulk didn't return the Stone). We know she must be talking about an already existing branch, specifically her branch, because she explicitly is talking about the removal of the Stone, and not about time travel itself. This is the way you have to fudge it to make it fit the Russo rules, which is far from ideal. And there's still several more holes in the Russo explanation.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Returning the Stone does not clip off the branch and reset the timeline, it only makes it so that branch is no longer facing a chaotic future due to not having a specific Stone available (Cap returning the Stone ensures that Strange will be able to lock Dormammu into the time loop and scare him away). I'm not passionate about the erasing thing, though that is what the film says.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: That is how Cap can live a life in an alternate reality with Peggy. That is how 2012 Loki can have a Disney+ series about his life after escaping, despite Steve being clearly instructed to return the Stones to the exact moment they took them from (meaning the timeline would be reset before this Loki could ever do anything noteworthy), as that is what Bruce promised he would do to the Ancient One.

Also, it would take quite some time for Thanos and Ebony Maw to reverse engineer Pym Particles, gather the entirety of Thanos' army in one space and shrink everything down in order to go to 2023, no matter how smart they are and how much tech they have. If Steve returns the Orb even a second after Nebula leaves the Temple (when they got the Stone), that only leaves a few hours at most for Clint and Natasha to get the Soul Stone and for Steve to return it, obliterating this timeline. Cap's alternate reality wouldn't have anything to do with erasing.

They haven't taken any stones from the timeline yet when Loki escapes. But again, I'm not passionate about the erasing argument.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: That is how I've interpreted the rules as laid out by Endgame, that is how I've seen most people interpreting the rules, and I believe that's how the Russos are interpreting the rules and why they've stuck with the Alternate Timeline theory so vehemently. I just don't see why so many people are adding things to make it make sense, when the Markus and McFeely explanation needs barely anything added than just what the film shows you.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Whether or not Markus and McFeely interpreted the rules that way when they wrote them (which clearly they don't, since as of SDCC they still maintain it's a loop, and even brought in a science consultant to back them up), it's honestly no longer relevant. The final product is out of their hands now and it's in the public consciousness and can be interpreted in any number of ways. They didn't bring in Clifford V. Johnson to back them up. He was there for the Time Travel in the Quantum Realm panel and they discussed different ways of looking at time travel, and he put forwards why he thinks that explanation works.

I'm sorry that this keeps coming up. Just want to acknowledge your good work. You absolutely have taken the time to think it through and discuss this subject well.

"I wish we agreed on the time travel rules, I really do. I know you're doing what you believe in, and that's all any of us can do. That's all any of us should."

But Markus and McFeely are right😉.

Marvelus wrote: I thought this discussion was over months ago xD. This is going to haunt us for the rest of our lives, isn't it? I have not stopped talking to people about it for 3½ months, and have been writing a blog stripping every film, director, writer, and science adviser script to the bone for weeks. I am exhausted.