Thread:Marvelous 345678/@comment-27496405-20180723185324/@comment-26838855-20181101012718

Sony's Universe of Marvel Characters (Ben 1,000,911, Mrmichaelt)
Ben 1,000,911 wrote: That'd be amazing honestly, bc the Kraven movie Sony is developing wants to have Spider-Man in it, and you're right even if it's the same actor that doesn't make it the Earth-199999 version. Spidey can be in Venom 2 with that logic, and idc either way now cuz that's perfect It was just a suggestion I was giving for a way out, if Sony did put Tom Holland in their films. It would be a bit of a weird situation if Feige did then come out and say that, but I wouldn't be complaining so long as it keeps the Sony stuff separate.

Mrmichaelt wrote: At least we can take solace that Universal can't and/or isn't making Hulk spin off character movies. As for Holland, well remember all that talk of him being in it during pre-production and principal? Turned out to be malarkey. So I'm still very skeptical of Kraven. One at a time, the next one is what -- Morbius? I'm sceptical as well. And yeah, supposedly Morbius is next, starting filming in a few months so I guess out around early 2020. I'm guessing they'll get a Venom sequel done by late 2020 as well. But we'll see if they actually get past that.

Daredevil: Season 3, and Its Relation to Iron Fist: Season 2 (Mrmichaelt, Marvelous 345678, Edward Zachary Sunrose, Astroarnav)
Mrmichaelt wrote: Surely, at least Danny would have heard about Daredevil and mentioned it in IF season 2 so DD season 3 is before IF season 2? But then again only Jessica is really left in Hell's Kitchen? I keep forgetting... Ugh. Daredevil: Season 3 on its own would place itself in late 2017, while Iron Fist: Season 2 on its own would place itself in early 2018. But Iron Fist: Season 2 should probably be before Daredevil: Season 3.

There is dialogue in Iron Fist: Season 2, Episodes 3 and 8 about Matt Murdock's mission, given to Danny when Matt "died" in The Defenders. But even when it's not being explicitly talked about, the reason Danny is acting the way he is is because of the mission Matt gave him. It's his new "purpose" he has found, as he discusses. If Matt were back, the mission wouldn't be so important.

On the other hand, there's nothing explicitly saying they still believe Matt is dead, just that Danny is following his mission. Matt could be back and Danny has just chosen to continue nonetheless, but the dialogue and implication was clearly written with the intention of it meaning Matt is still "dead", because that's how it plays, being released before Daredevil: Season 3, and the dialogue would be a bit weirder in the context that Matt is known to be alive - especially since Colleen mentions it to dissuade Danny, and it would be another point to dissuade him: "And Matt's alive and back anyway!"

And the Netflix shows have always been set chronologically, it would be a bit weird to suddenly change that, just by a slight discrepancy of a few months in the evidence and not like the Marvel Phase Three intentional jumping-around.

Ideally, it should go Iron Fist then Daredevil. Perhaps with some overlap. Presumably all of Iron Fist (except the epilogue) should have happened before Dex's attack on the Bulletin, although Fisk being moved from prison is pretty major news to not be mentioned if it happened during Iron Fist: Season 2 (unless it can slide during one of the small few-day jumps in that season).

Because, as I will get into, Daredevil: Season 3 can't really be later than late 2017, that would mean that Iron Fist: Season 2 has to be shuffled a few months earlier. It works fine with most things (and slightly better with some, like Misty still considering the captain job and "months" lines implied to be referring to times not long after Season 1), the only problems really are that they would have to be planning spring fair pretty early, and Misty's line about "next year's Christmas card" not making much sense if Christmas is a couple of months away. And also, as I'm about to mention, the weather not being quite right, and the iPhone X.

Once I've finished my Daredevil notes, I will definitely be working out how it can all fit together. But yeah, the other annoying thing is that both seem to be winter (and feature iPhone Xs apparently), but if Daredevil: Season 3 is late 2017 and the DA elections are approaching, ideally it would all be before early November 2017. But that would mean that Iron Fist: Season 2 and Daredevil: Season 3 all have to be before early November 2017, and October-November is not really winter, and is before the release of the iPhone X. So once I've worked it through, I'm going to have to look at whether it's more important to go by the November date (so October-November) or abide by the weather and iPhone X stuff (so more like November-December). There's evidence both ways. It would be a shame for it to be so close and yet not quite fit with the election.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: I am on episode 10. It is clearly winter for when the season takes place. So February-March 2018. It just has to be after Iron Fist and its Spring Fair Fest...

Good thing about the Netflix shows being cancelled asap is that we will not deal with other timeline chaos like this one. I am sad about Luke Cage tho. Season 2 was perfect for me.

Fortunately, unless they mention something on episodes 11-13, the season must be like 22 months after The Defenders. It can work as we have a confirmation from the set that whereas the first episode begins right after The Defenders there is a significant timejump. We can make it work. So it is not the end of the world. But God I wish for more consistency between all this. With the "2 years" lines, it really can't be early 2018. There's just no way of calling that almost-exactly-3 years "2". While I agree with what you say later, that the Felix Manning line doesn't have to mean it's 2 years since Season 1, the Ben Donovan one does. Late 2017 still works as "2 years" since early 2015, and I think we have to go with that. It does also work better with "months" since The Defenders, the election stuff, and the "early Christmas" line. About 18 months on since The Defenders, which could still just about be called "months" - it's in the vague area I've mentioned before. Once you hit "2 years", you just absolutely can't call it "months".

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Fisk's lawyer says it's been two years since Fisk was charged with rackateering. Meaning it's late 2016, early 2017 during DD3. Which can't make sense at all, since it'd be just months after Defenders, and long before IF2 and LC2, where Dex posing as Daredevil would surely have been mentioned. Well, late 2017 still works as 2 years since early 2015.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: Daredevil S1 takes place in 2015. Not 2014...

But yeah. That kind of settles up that we are on 2017. Definitely 2017. Damn you Iron Fist. Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Well, I said late 2016 due to rounding, it might be less than two years and he simply rounded up. But yeah, it's 2017. Astroarnav wrote: So to be clear (and I'm new to this thread, so don't sue me), but we can confirm that the Netflix shows are now in 2017, and are all before Infinity War? Can confirm the Netflix shows are all before Infinity War. We've known that for a while, due to just the way the Netflix timeline works, and Jeph Loeb's comments.

Can kind of confirm they're in 2017. Daredevil definitely seems to be, and while Iron Fist initially placed itself in early 2018, it looks like it might have to be late 2017 as well.

The epilogue of Iron Fist: Season 2 is 2018, either way. But whether it's early 2018 ("months" on from late 2017) and before Infinity War or mid-2018 ("months" on from early 2018) and after Infinity War depends on when exactly Iron Fist: Season 2 is placed. But it looks like probably late 2017, meaning the epilogue can fit in before Infinity War.

Infinity War is also not concretely placed, but the only changes that would be made is that it would be later than its current March 2018 placement - no later than June. So it's not going to move earlier and suddenly be before these Netflix seasons.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: @Edward Zachary Sunrose, you believe that DDS1 is in 2014. If I am not wrong. That is why I said that it is 2017 not 2016.

@Astroarnav. Nice to have you in here. Welcome to the Timeline Discussion Thread!! Actually all the Netflix Shows are now in 2018. As Iron Fist S2 places itself on January-february 2018. Daredevil S3 must be in 2018 as well. I think Edward Zachary Sunrose was saying that ideally, "2 years" would mean late 2016/early 2017, from early 2015. He wasn't saying the furthest it could be pushed, which is late 2017.

And sorry to confuse you Astroarnav, it was indeed looking like things would be early 2018 because that's where Iron Fist placed itself, but it looks now like things might actually have to be late 2017.

Astroarnav wrote: W-wait, what? So...it takes place present or post-snap?! How? Why?

Also thanks for the greeting, I really appreciate it.

But still, HOW?! WHY?! 2018 doesn't mean present day. The initial placement we had for Iron Fist: Season 2 was January-February 2018, so 7-8 months behind present day (when it came out), and still before the Spring 2018 placement of Infinity War. And if Daredevil: Season 3 did take place in 2018, it would be around February as well, so still in the past, and still before Infinity War.

But anyway, it looks like Daredevil at least, and probably Iron Fist, will have to take place in late 2017 now.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: I am kind of bussy at the moment bro but Iron Fist S2 is set after Luke Cage S2 that places itself on 2017 (august-september), Iron Fist S2 presents hard evidence for a January-february 2018 placement showing the celebration of a Spring Fair Fest which is held on February 2018 in the UK. China and Chinatown, USA. Nice to see more collaborators.

Good yo have you around man!! And we are still pre Snap. Jessica Jones S3 that is set during Halloween 2018 (according set pics) does take place after Infinity War.

By the way. I just saw the mention if the 2 years. It is not a big deal. It is like the Battle of New York mention made on Season 1 of Daredevil. So as long as it is very early 2018 (February) it works.

We are fine! I wouldn't say the Iron Fist evidence is super hard. I guess if they're having a big spring fair, that could be months of preparation. There are many Christmas events that I know about in my life that plan for months, and Chinese New Year is a big deal in Chinatown. I do think that it suggests on its own that it's early 2018, but when it comes down to it, I think it can just about work in late 2017.

I don't think Donovan's "2 years" line can be likened to the Battle of New York line. The Battle of New York line was quite different. It was January, it referring to a business' years (suggesting more likely to be about comparing stats over complete years), and also referring to the cleanup rather than the exact time since the battle. So overall it could work fine as 2 years 8 months. It's January and Karen is referring to the business' success "in the last two years", 2013 and 2014, following the 2012 incident. And it's been significantly under 3 years.

But in this case, it's very explicit that it's referring to Fisk's conviction after Season 1 and there's none of the wiggle room of the business stuff either - plus it would be like 36 months, 3 whole years.

I do think that late 2017 works reasonably. While it's 2 years and 9 months, it's 2 calendar years and is definitely not outside the realm of possibility to be called "2 years". But I don't think that line can work crossing into 2018.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: In episode 12, Fisk says that Vanessa has been protected by Felix M. for 2 years. However, that does not imply that it's been two years since his capture and her flying abroad. It just means that since 2016 or late 2015 (probably November when Fisk finally managed to control the prison he was in as seen in Season Two) Vaneessa Marianna was put in charge of Felix under the orders of Fisk something that he greets on February-March 2018. We have a confirmation that Daredevil S1 cannot be in 2014 but 2015! I agree that the Felix line has wiggle room, but the Ben Donovan line doesn't really. And since the Donovan line does pretty much mean that it cannot be later than late 2017, then the Felix line does now pretty much work as just referring to the time since February 2015, and we don't need to make an assumption to make it work. It can just mean what it was intended to mean.

I agree though, this further confirms that Daredevil: Season 1 cannot be any earlier than 2015. If it were late 2014, Daredevil: Season 3 couldn't be taking place any later than like Spring 2017 (which would be just shy of 2.5 years, the limit for calling "2 years" if you are rounding), and it has to be later than that. So that further affirmation of the Netflix timeline makes me happy.

If we can make Iron Fist: Season 2 and Daredevil: Season 3 work, which, while not ideal, is far from the hardest problem we've faced, then everything 2015-2017 in the Netflix timeline is pretty much set in place.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: Just finished the season. Incredible. Lovely show. We know it MUST be set in 2018, and there is no information ignoring that. We have room to work on. I am happy that ee are safe for now. Until Punisher comes along and ruins everything again xD I really enjoyed this season, though I had some moments where I was a little bit disappointed. I thought around Episode 3 things were moving a bit frustratingly slow, like Episodes 1-5 could have been faster. I felt it took until about Episode 6 to properly kick into high gear. That's not to say I didn't enjoy a lot of the stuff in those first few episodes - I did. I thought Episode 1 was quite special and unique and Episode 4 obviously had some fantastic stuff, and throughout I thought it was never less than good. I had just been expecting a little more from the hype and reviews.

I don't know what it is with these Netflix shows, they so often start really slow, and I'm one of the people who actually defends a lot of them. Daredevil: Season 1 doesn't. Jessica Jones: Season 1 does, though it builds and I don't mind. Daredevil: Season 2 doesn't. Luke Cage: Season 1 has been said by many to start way too slowly (which seems in conflict with the common understanding that the first half of the season was great and the second half not), but I disagree, I find the opening few episodes engaging and with a great vibe, just setting up the relationships and characters really nicely without ever being boring. Iron Fist: Season 1, yeah. Really slow. The Defenders: Season 1 has been said by many to have started too slow, but I actually disagree, and maybe that's a part of why I really enjoyed it. I didn't mind waiting to see them come together (maybe also because I knew ahead of time that it took until Episode 3), it just excited me and excited me as they converged, and it felt really organic. And the first 2 episodes felt like these four shows I mostly enjoyed all happening together and slowly merging, I don't have a problem with that. The Punisher: Season 1 I do think starts too slowly. Around Episode 5 it kicked into gear and then it built and built and was really good, but yeah, the first few episodes were kind of frustrating. Jessica Jones: Season 2 is another one that has been criticised for starting too slow, but I actually preferred the first half to the second - finding it more engaging and fascinating than the things with Alisa. Luke Cage: Season 2 I thought got going pretty quickly. Iron Fist: Season 2 though, yeah, slow. The first few episodes just made me think, "But... nothing's happened yet...". And then this one. Was enjoying it from the get-go, but found it a bit frustrating. And while some of the ones often criticised I actually defend, overall, still, these shows often start weak, which can't help viewership. I am more happy with the premieres setting up all the players and settings and things than many other viewers, but after that, you've got to get moving.

Anyway, then things got going and the season built and built, and I got more and more into it. There were specific moments that made me feel the next level of excitement/engagement, like the Bulletin fight or Hattley killing Winn and putting Ray under Fisk's employ. I was loving it. I didn't care much for Episode 10. I thought the Karen flashbacks were really poorly placed, because they're right as you're excited to see what happens next. So instead of being a tragic set of events that made me care more about Karen, it was more like 35 minutes of "I know this is going to end in Karen's recklessness unintentionally leading to Kevin's death, can we get back to the main story?" And it was a shame because I really like Karen (I don't get the hate around her) and this was clearly such an important event in her life, the reveal of which has been built up to for a while, but when it actually came, I just didn't feel anything. It was pretty much what I'd figured anyway from the dialogue before about the Kevin incidents, and seeing it for some reason did nothing more. Also, having seen Hereditary earlier this year, a very similar incident was much more upsettingly depicted there, so maybe that also factored in, just thinking, "Hereditary did this much better." Although the final third of Episode 10 was great.

But despite that blip, it was getting better and better, and by the end of Episode 12 I was 100% into it. Ray's death genuinely really hit me. I knew it was coming, they'd been building up to it for the last episode or two, but that didn't make it hurt less. However, I was concerned about the finale. I was worried it would encounter the same problems I had with the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 5 finale, similar to the problems I had with the finales for Runaways: Season 1 and Cloak & Dagger: Season 1. As with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., they had built up a seemingly unwinnable conundrum for the whole season (the fact that the timeline can't be changed, the fact that Fisk is unstoppable while alive but Matt cannot kill) and the problem is, either you now find a really clever and creative way to get out of the corner you've painted yourself into, making a really satisfying resolution and thus a satisfying season arc, or you just end up falling into the cliched solution that seemed to be the only way out. While I thought The End was a really well-executed episode and I do like it a lot, nonetheless, it predictably just resolved the unsolvable conundrum that time cannot be changed by... just finding out it can. And Runaways and Cloak & Dagger had slightly different, but similar problems. They both set up so many questions and mysteries but decided that they had to save every resolution for the end of the season, in the finale. So after Episode 9, you have a problem: either Episode 10 is incredibly rushed, cramming in way too much, or it just doesn't answer a lot of things, leaving things unresolved and unsatisfying. And as with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., they also just ended up being predictably disappointing, not answering most things. I didn't mind the Runaways finale because it was pretty interesting, but just in terms of season arcs and story, all three of these finales I've mentioned had painted themselves into corners and could either be really interesting and creative to get out of that corner, or just end up being disappointing. And they all ended up just being disappointing, in terms of resolving story.

And that was my worry going into the Daredevil finale. If Fisk lives, then the only answer really is that he has to go to prison. And if he goes to prison again, what was the point in all of this? Things just mostly go back to how they were, and it's just the Season 1 finale again. But if Fisk dies, you lose a great character and also make things feel a bit pointless. All this discussion all season about how he can't be killed, only to do it. All these things that happened because they let him go the first time, only for the lesson learned to be "We should've killed him last time." I'm not saying problems with Matt killing him, I'm saying problems with anyone killing him. But also, if they'd made Matt do it, that's especially problematic, because it's a line you cannot cross with that character. So how do they make this feel satisfying?

Well... they don't. In my opinion. I really enjoyed the first half of the finale, but the moment Matt and Fisk shook hands, I started to feel weird about it all. Fisk goes back to prison and everything starts to feel a bit pointless. Like, "Well, we had 11 episodes of fun with Fisk out of prison manipulating things again but he's back in prison now so oh well." And that tarnished my lasting taste on the season, feeling like it was all a bit pointless - which sucks. I wanted it to nail the ending so badly, because I really wanted to wholeheartedly love the season. But for me, it didn't. I didn't hate it or anything - far from it - but I was sad that it didn't end in a satisfying way. I also thought the rest of the ending was too happy. I don't know, maybe I'm just depressing, but things were all tied up far too neatly with a nice little bow. Everything turned out happy for everyone except for Lantom and Ray's deaths. Matt's happy, he's fixed things with his mother and friends, everyone's chilled and read to resume happy lives. It felt like all the build-up over the season amounted to very little in the end in terms of characters being in a different place to where they were. Because things basically just got reverted to how they were as of the end of Season 1. Also the very ending with Dex was odd.

While I think there was no easy wholly satisfying answer, I think there were ways of doing it better than this. Perhaps Matt spares Fisk after the moral battle we see him go through, but then Fisk is suddenly shot through the head, and it's revealed to be Karen, who took it upon herself to save Matt from killing and damaging his soul, when hers is already broken and she can take that burden. It pays off the idea that Fisk is unstoppable while alive while also not having Matt descend into killing and paying off all the talk of Karen's damaged soul. Or despite Matt's ultimate decision to spare Fisk, Dex then kills him, and Matt becomes angry with him, further setting up the Daredevil and Bullseye conflict. Something other than just "back to prison", to not make things feel pointless. And while I would definitely be sad to lose Fisk, I think that it would have been worth it. He's had a great run but there's not much further you can take his character (like what they did with Mariah in the Luke Cage: Season 2 finale) and in dying in this episode, his death can still have purpose in driving further story. And if you want to bring him back you can easily show flashbacks with things Fisk set in motion before his death or something.

But that all said, now that I've had some time since watching the finale, I'm managing to put it into perspective and not let it tarnish my feelings on the season as a whole too much - reminding myself how much I loved most of it. I know lots of people are saying it's the best Marvel Netflix season yet, but I cannot agree with that. Still, I think it might be my number 3 (beaten by Season 1 and Jessica Jones: Season 1), and it's really great for the most part.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: Daredevil S3 confirmed to be BEFORE the events of Avengers: Infinity War. (Source As with Luke Cage and Iron Fist, nice to have specified confirmation.

Mrmichaelt wrote: I hope he knows he can only say that for so long and isn't just making blanket statements. This was the reason I said that I don't think the statements need to be 100% strict. Because he pretty much is just making blanket statements. It's the only thing he can say, even if it's not entirely true.

If he is asked specifically about The Punisher: Season 2 and he makes these statements again (which he would, because it's the blanket statement he's been making), it could cause problems.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: I know, I just hope that he does not say that Jessica Jones S3 is before The Snap because we know it is not.

I am dying to see BEJT's opinion on the matter. But I know he agrees with me that the season is in 2018 and not in 2017. And that we have enough room to work it out. He shouldn't say that about Jessica Jones: Season 3 because it will be coming out after Avengers 4. Unless he's asked before the release of Avengers 4, which would be stupid of the interviewer, considering they should take into account the fact that by the time of release, Avengers 4 will have changed the status of things.

And yeah, I actually don't particularly agree that it is 2018 and not 2017. While I wish that could have been the case, I just don't think it can be later than late 2017. But it seems like you might kind of agree with that too?

Marvelous 345678 wrote: BEJT, when Karen says that she hasn't seen Matt in months just means that she is lying to Ray Nadeem. She would not say that she hasn't seen him in 2 years I considered that as a possibility, though I'm not sure. She's truthful about pretty much everything else, even if she avoids the question. She doesn't lie. I don't think the writers intended it as a lie, anyway, I think it was intended as a line meaning it's been "months" since The Defenders.

But yes, we can take it as being a bit of a lie or her intentionally underplaying it without lying, saying "months" but knowing she means "18 months" - longer than she knows she's implying by just saying "months", but not untrue. It's just that this, like with the "couple months" line, is us finding a loophole, not the writer intention.

Astroarnav wrote: Hmm...this is interesting...

https://screenrant.com/daredevil-agents-shield-marvel-netflix-continuity/

Unless of course you all already know about it, in which case I'm stupider than I realize... That was my first thought when I saw the blackout paper, but then I thought, "Oh no wait, wasn't that L.A.?"

Then I saw that article and it reminded me that while the episode was set in L.A., the Watchdogs did also black out other cities.

However, I did a "find in page" on the script for Uprising and didn't find New York as one of the listed locations. Maybe in the episode it's shown on a map or something, but at least in terms of dialogue, it doesn't appear to be mentioned. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anyhow, if it is a reference to Uprising, it works, since that was March 2017 and this is seemingly late 2017.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: thanks for the confirmation bro. I saw the Blackout article but never connected it to the Attack that happened in march 2017. So that kind of settles the fact that The defenders and the Punisher are before 2017 and helps us to set things up. That's a good point I didn't consider - that since it's a new article not shown in the previous times we've seen the office, then presumably it's something that happened between then now.

I'm still not sure that it is a reference to Uprising, but if it is, it works, as you say. March 2017 is after The Punisher: Season 1 and before Daredevil: Season 3.

Astroarnav wrote: No problem. ;) Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Ooh, I didn't even catch that. Before I clicked on the article, I was guessing it was going to be the St. Agnes name drop in Episode 1, even though that's been known for a while, I still got excited when they mentioned the name of the orphanage, since that means Daisy and Matt grew up together. (Which again, we've known for a while but still made me giddy.) It's a shame they've never actually mentioned each other. I guess it's hard to organically slip in, like there's no particular reason Daisy would bring up the other kids at the orphanage and mention "a blind kid called Matt". But like maybe while discussing Matt being emotionally closed off, Maggie could've joked and said something like, "Well, you were difficult, but at least you weren't a pain in my ass. Remember [random name] and [random name], always sneaking around where they shouldn't be, or Mary Sue Poots - that girl always fancied herself as the rebellious type." Mary Sue Poots was revealed in Season 1 to have been Skye/Daisy's legal name at the orphanage. I put the other random names in to make it feel less forced, and also, if you just say "Mary Sue Poots" (which, really, is what Maggie should call her), I also feel that makes it seem more organic. She doesn't have to say, "Mary Sue Poots. Always wanted to be called Skye. I wonder what happened to her?" or something more on-the-nose. And with a line like that, it also doesn't hinder anyone's experience for people watching who don't get the reference. To them, it's just more development of their relationship, and fleshing out of Matt's childhood at the orphanage and the things these two characters would remember together.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: Actually that helps. We can put Season 3 after March 2017.

BEJT. I found the scene where we can put that big time jum that is necessary. In epidode 1 the only scene where we can put that big time jump is when Matt goes to the bath and starts bleeding and recovers from his momentary deaf. That is the only scene. He is already healed.

Also there is a scen before that where we see Karen and Foggy, however, while Foggy says that he will pay and makes Karen swear, that does not mean that Karen would stop doing it. Well there's a few places in Episode 1 that some gaps can occur. But yeah, Episode 1 is the only episode really with possible gaps, because at least up to Episode 6 (I've only fully completed my notes for the first 6 episodes), there's references to "today" and "last night" and "2 days ago" etc. in Episode 2 onwards tying everything together, giving no potential gaps.

And yeah you're right, Karen didn't necessarily hold to that promise.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: Seeing your notes BEJT, we can use the February 19th date!!! I am so happy. I listed it as a possibility from the lights shown, if February 2018 was going to be the necessary outcome. But as mentioned above, looks like it can't be any later than late 2017.

Astroarnav wrote: Glad to know that this is all helping! I'll remain on the lookout for news! Mrmichaelt wrote: Oh, so it's lining up well that part of Daredevil S3 is in 2017 and part is in 2018? Just late 2017, I feel.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: BEJT wrote: In Episode 11, it is said that it's been 2 years since Fisk was wrongfully convicted. I think it's going to have to be late 2017, not early 2018. It's a whole 3 years if it's February 2018. Late 2017 fits all the evidence reasonably well - the election, "early Christmas", works better as "months" since The Defenders as a year-and-a-half/1 calendar year rather than 2 years, works better with the feeling of the time since The Defenders, 2 calendar years since early 2015. We might have to move Iron Fist to late 2017 as well and assume that the spring fair planning committee were planning really early. Interesting proposal there... I see. I see. Keeping my quote in here as well because it will disappear from the original message soon, since that's my notes message and that was part of the rough observation notes to be replaced by my actual notes.

Yeah, I feel like late 2017 is the latest possible option. Do you think so?

Mrmichaelt wrote: Nice! That would take the Iron Fist season 2 ending to early 2018 and provide a lot of space for when Punisher season 2 takes place before the Snap. I wonder if Jessica Jones season 3 might be October 2017 rather than 2018 (or was this hashed out already?) Yeah it does help with the Iron Fist epilogue. As mentioned, moving Iron Fist to late 2017 isn't all bad - there are some things for which it works better. It's just that there's a bit more bad than good from having to move it, but in combination with Daredevil, it seems to be the best move.

Luke Cage Cancelled (Marvelous 345678, Mrmichaelt)
Marvelous 345678 wrote: Luke Cage gets cancelled by Netflix and Marvel This was really sad. Especially since just before Iron Fist ' s cancellation, rumours said that Luke Cage was about to get renewed.

I really like Luke Cage and feel it got too much stick for people generalising the halves of the first season into "great" and "rubbish". While I do think on the whole, the second half was a marked step down from the first, the generalisation was a bit stupid because both halves had ups and downs, and the extremeness of the reactions (everything is "the best" or "the worst", no nuanced general reaction) was, as always, stupid. Some things are neither great nor terrible, and people need to stop pretending everything is either one or the other and then jumping on the bandwagon.

And then people didn't bother watching the great Season 2. The show wasn't perfect by any means, but on the whole was really good and it's a shame it didn't get enough love.

It's also a shame considering where the show left off - it was a great and intriguing ending to the season, but not a good ending for the show as a whole! (Same with Iron Fist.) Luke's character needs resolution.

Since Iron Fist has been said to come back in other shows, surely they'll bring Luke back as well, considering he's probably more popular. But I wonder if Luke Cage was the show in which they planned to bring Danny back - apparently the cancellation was quite sudden, and the reason that renewal rumour came up a week prior was because that was genuinely seemingly the case, they had begun work on scripts for a 10-episode Season 3, but there were sudden creative differences and budget problems and inability to successfully work together and it tipped Netflix over the edge (I think the show was just about hanging on before) to cancel it.

Netflix have said that this has nothing to do with the Disney streaming service, and that they're their shows to cancel (which was another thing that gave me hope for Luke Cage, as they said that days before they cancelled it), but I'm not sure. I don't know that this is purely coincidental timing. Maybe it is.

Netflix also cancelled American Vandal a week later, another popular show. They seem to have reached a point where they're deciding to kind of work their way up from the bottom of a list and cancel things that are not successful enough for them.

Also, to address all these Heroes for Hire hopes, I'm not so sure. While I really hope that a Heroes for Hire or Daughters of the Dragon show happens so Luke, Danny, Misty, and Colleen can continue to show up, I don't have high hopes it will actually happen. I feel like if it were to happen, they would have announced it with the cancellations - why let fans mourn? That said, if Luke Cage ' s cancellation was as swift as has been reported, maybe they were far from prepared with any plans for a team-up show, but are working on it now that they've seen the demand. But as much as I really want to be wrong, I'm not very hopeful.

Mrmichaelt wrote: That's messed up. Good luck Punisher and Jessica Jones. I think because the two shows were cancelled in quick succession, and because of the Disney streaming service, people are assuming that these are all going to get cancelled soon, but that's not necessarily the case. Daredevil is a really popular show on Netflix - the one which has broken out the most as not just a popular Marvel Netflix show, but a popular Netflix show full stop (or as Americans say, "period"), and Vincent D'Onofrio has hinted that there's no sense of it being cancelled nay time soon. When it comes to The Punisher, I feel like that was the closest they had come to a mainstream hit since 2015 when that came out, and was up there in audience popularity with Daredevil: Season 1 and Jessica Jones: Season 1, even if some critics weren't fully on-board. So if enough people watch Season 2, like they did Daredevil: Season 2, that show should be safe. And finally, Jessica Jones is the one that I am more concerned about. I was surprised they were so fast to renew it for Season 3, since Season 2 didn't seem to make much impact on the world in the way Season 1 did - I didn't really see people discussing it outside of just the top Marvel fans like us, and it wasn't too well-received, response was pretty lukewarm. So I guess it is just heavily dependent on Season 3's success.

Marvelous 345678 wrote: Good thing about the Netflix shows being cancelled asap is that we will not deal with other timeline chaos like this one. I am sad about Luke Cage tho. Season 2 was perfect for me. Again, not sure that they're all being cancelled A.S.A.P.. But I'd rather still have these shows and deal with timeline problems than not have them and not have to deal with the problems. I really do enjoy most of them, and agree Luke Cage: Season 2 was great. But yeah, judging by Cloak & Dagger (and Runaways to some extent), it's not like Netflix is the only place Marvel TV messes up their timeline.

Karen Flashbacks (MrRLopez, Marvelous 345678)
MrRLopez wrote: Daredevil episode 10 uses the laziest word to call a flashback: "Before"

Really? Was it that hard to especify the year or say "X years ago"? Marvelous 345678 wrote: I know right? 😂😂 I was laughing because of that. They're so scared to get the timeline wrong and yet they still do😂. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 4 did stuff like this as well, I think the Ivanov flashbacks said something like "some time ago", and the Ghost Rider flashbacks either said that or said something like "before" as well.

Anyway, it's seemingly winter during the flashbacks, and Freek-a-Leek by Petey Pablo is playing in the opening scene, which came out in December 2003. So it's likely Winter 2003-04 (late 2003/early 2004). Also, going by Deborah Ann Woll's age, Karen would've been born around 1984-1985 as well, suggesting she'd have graduated high school senior year around mid-2003. Since this is winter of her gap year, that would suggest it's about 6-8 months on from her graduation, so that would also give Winter 2003-2004, perfectly lining up.

So yeah, late 2003/early 2004, and if it had said "x years ago", it probably should've said "14 years ago".

WHiH (Marvelous 345678, CirUmeUela, Maurice.136, Mrmichaelt)
Marvelous 345678 wrote: WHiH Newsfront has deleted its YouTube Account. Agh that's annoying. They always do this with these YouTube things (and other social media marketing). After a while, they just delete them. I wonder if it costs them anything to keep them running, because otherwise, why do they bother deleting them? It's part of why I started the social media blog which I haven't had time to go back to, but I should probably screenshot and download these things in the future. I'm sure the WHiH videos are elsewhere, I remember seeing some of them uploaded to trailer sites and things. But it's inconvenient.

CirUmeUela wrote: Yeah I noticed they deleted it. I never downloaded them all! When I found that out, I went on a scavenger hunt trying to find them all from secondary sources. I think I found them all, but does anyone have all the originals downloaded just in case? Marvelous 345678 wrote: I do :D Nice, well done Marvelous. Yeah, they should all be available, CirUmeUela, but it's good to know Marvelous has them.

Luckily, I got my notes from the videos a while back.

Maurice.136 wrote: Disappointing this is. CirUmeUela wrote: @Maurice.136 Master Yoda, is that you?

@Marvelous 345678 Awesome, could you send a google drive link to them or something? :D Mrmichaelt wrote: Maybe it will resurface on the Disney streaming service. Nah, it's not a TV show. It's pretty much just glorified marketing, promos for Ant-Man and Civil War, that were so well-done they were kind of like a web miniseries.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Sad, but not surprising. They deleted their channel artwork quite some time ago. It's weird that they produced about 10 or 11 shorts, but only ever released 5 on the Ant-Man home media release.

Hopefully they upload them to the Marvel YouTube, but safe to assume WHiH is just another casualty in the long line of cancellations. (I know it's not a Marvel Television project or a TV show, but... It kinda counts? lol) I'm pretty sure it's not a casualty of the cancellations, they're completely unrelated. The two Netflix cancellations are TV shows that Netflix (not Marvel) have decided to end. This is just a set of marketing promos that Marvel did a while back and have now deleted after 2½ years of inactivity. They just tend to delete this stuff after a while, like the Stark Expo videos. I don't know why, but they do. But yeah, completely separate things. Some promos that Marvel did years ago and didn't continue that they just got around to deleting vs. two major TV shows run by Netflix, cancelled by Netflix.

Matt Murdock's Age (Mrmichaelt)
Mrmichaelt wrote: Does it track that Matt Murdock is about 30 years old? ComicBook.com article I saw another article about that and it annoyed me a bit, with the Reddit poster saying there's no other evidence for how old Matt is. There very much is... Matt's 32 in Daredevil: Season 3, and knowing that made me go, when Maggie said about being a nun for 30 years, "Oh that's going to be related. Because Matt was born just over 30 years ago, this is going to connect somehow." I noticed the line at the time because I knew Matt's age.

Early 2015 is 20 years since Stick left him, so that was c. 1995. That was a year or so after he was blinded, so that was c. 1994. As well as this, in the "10 years ago" scenes in Season 2, set in late 2005, Matt says it's been 10 years since his dad died, so that was c. 1995.

Jack's match was November 26th and was a "Saturday", fitting pretty nicely with Saturday, November 26, 1994. Matt was blinded a few months prior, mid-to-late 1994. Matt was 9 at the time. So he was born around early 1985. No later than mid-to-late 1985, and no earlier than 1984 (at a stretch he could have been born in early 1984 and blinded in early 1994, just before turning 10, but it really doesn't seem like there was too long between his blinding and his father's death, no more than a few months).

This also matches with the fact that his encounter with Elektra was in late 2005 and was in his final year at college. Meaning he started in autumn 2003, aged 18 - a common age to start college.

Runaways: Season 2 (Mrmichaelt)
Mrmichaelt wrote: To add to the info stated earlier this year about the timeline, ComicBook posted a Loeb interview about Runaways season 2 and he mentioned "We pick up almost minutes later." Thanks. That doesn't quite line up with what we heard before about 24-36 hours, but either way, yeah, it's pretty much straight after Season 1.

Assuming they don't talk about it being Christmas, hopefully there's enough room to just skim over it and start on Boxing Day.