Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26838855-20190803131136/@comment-26838855-20190811015736

Shabook wrote: An easy explanation of the loop, explaining the three Leo Fitz portrayed in Aos. I still don't understand why some people doubt the existence of at least three different universes in Season 5

... Thank you for taking the time to write this. I had been interested in the reasoning behind the theory, and figured it was something like this.
 * The Agents from Earth-A travel to the apocalyptic future of Earth-B, where they are joined by the native Leo Fitz from Earth-B. They travel back to Earth-A, but the planet is destroyed. They survive in the Lighthouse, A-Simmons and B-Fitz eventually have a grandson, while A-Fitz is frozen.
 * Given than Leo Fitz from Earth-B awoke in an apocalyptic future, that means the Agents from Earth-B travel to the apocalyptic future of Earth-C, where they are joined by the native Leo Fitz from Earth-C. They travel back to Earth-B, but the planet is destroyed. They survive in the Lighthouse, B-Simmons and C-Fitz eventually have a grandson, while B-Fitz is frozen.
 * Given than Leo Fitz from Earth-C awoke in an apocalyptic future, that means the Agents from Earth-C travel to the apocalyptic future of Earth-D, where they are joined by the native Leo Fitz from Earth-D. They travel back to Earth-D, but the planet is destroyed. They survive in the Lighthouse, C-Simmons and D-Fitz eventually have a grandson, while C-Fitz is frozen.
 * Given than Leo Fitz from Earth-D awoke in an apocalyptic future, that means the Agents from Earth-D travel to the apocalyptic future of Earth-E, where they are joined by the native Leo Fitz from Earth-E. They travel back to Earth-D, but the planet is destroyed. They survive in the Lighthouse, D-Simmons and E-Fitz eventually have a grandson, while D-Fitz is frozen.
 * Given than Leo Fitz from Earth-TRN676 awoke in an apocalyptic future, that means the Agents from Earth-TRN676 travel to the apocalyptic future of Earth-TRN679, where they are joined by the native Leo Fitz from Earth-TRN679. They travel back to Earth-TRN676, but the planet is destroyed. They survive in the Lighthouse, TRN676-Simmons and TRN679-Fitz eventually have a grandson, while TRN676-Fitz is frozen.
 * Given than Leo Fitz from Earth-TRN676 awoke in an apocalyptic future, that means the Agents from Earth-199999 travel to the apocalyptic future of Earth-TRN676, where they are joined by the native Leo Fitz from Earth-TRN676. They travel back to Earth-199999. They manage to save the planet and break the loop. TRN676-Fitz dies, while 199999-Fitz is frozen.

This theory is internally consistent and could work if necessary to deviate from what the show presents so as to fit some wider rule. But I have to nonetheless say that it is not necessary, when you can just stick to what the show presents, and this is not what the show presents, for the following reasons:
 * The MCU has not yet established entirely parallel universes, only universes created from splits in the timeline.
 * The White Monolith is purely a "time" Monolith, so would purely shift you in time, it's not a "time and parallel universe" Monolith.
 * Robin sees the future, not the future of an alternate universe.
 * Enoch is trying to change the future. There's no need if that's not the future.
 * The "74 years later" of Rewind is "74 years later", not "74 years later, in another universe".
 * The intention of Rewind is clearly that the Fitz you see at the end is the same character you've been following for the whole episode, as well as things like him then joining the rest of the team and showing them the weapons he hid in the wall. It's clearly meant to be him that put them there, not some other Fitz. This theory involves an added assumption that the show suddenly changes focus to a different Fitz during Rewind.
 * In The End, Simmons talks about how happy she is that it turns out time can be changed and is fluid (albeit through splintering the timeline). This theory involves no changing of time.
 * It is established as a time loop, not just "something that has occurred identically in a lot of alternate universes", which isn't a loop but more of a zig-zag: lots of straight parallel lines, with a diagonal jump across between each one, being the Fitz that travels across each time.
 * The team are obsessed with breaking the loop, and say that they know if one of them dies early who isn't supposed to, that will be proof that they have broken the loop. If one of them dies early and they're in a different universe to the one with the dystopian future, then that's not evidence of anything. That just means that unfortunately, in this universe, that character has died earlier than in most. They could still be on course for the end of the world. The importance of the idea of one of them dying is it means time has been changed (split), so they are no longer bound by predestination to not save the world.
 * Simmons says in Season 6 that they're not entirely sure how they changed time (again, changed time), implying it is not a scientific reason such as parallel universes.
 * Simmons, Fitz, and Yo-Yo go through various death-defying incidents and survive because the time loop is already established that they survive into the future, they can't die because they don't die. They don't die until their timeline's future, so they can't die until their timeline's future.
 * The timeline only splits in The End, as Robin declares that she feels the change in time, and everything is trapped in the time loop until that point, playing out identically to how it always did no matter how hard they try.
 * At numerous times, the agents try desperately for things to be even slightly different. They don't manage because that's the way time is. In this theory, they are not in any way bound by predestination.
 * In Past Life, future Yo-Yo tries desperately to say something different to what she heard herself say when she was younger. She then explains that everything she is saying is exactly what she heard herself say, and that even in saying that she is saying what she always said, in a frustrating, unavoidable predestination. If this is Earth-TRN676 2091 Yo-Yo speaking to Earth-199999 2017 Yo-Yo, by this theory, Earth-TRN676 Yo-Yo when she was her younger, 2091 self, would have spoken to Earth-TRN679 Yo-Yo - another universe's Yo-Yo. So there would be absolutely no reason why, no matter how hard she tries, she is caught in a frustrating, unavoidable predestination of the conversation to be identical to what she always heard.
 * If the White Monolith were to transport you to another universe, why would they end up back in their old one when they go from 2091 to 2017? It's not like they're just switching it backwards, because they don't go back to when they came from, they go back to 7 months after they left (that's not just a thing from timeline theories, it's absolute fact that it's over 6 months later because the Quinjet has been left where Fitz and Hunter parked it in Rewind, over 6 months after the agents left). Plus they don't have the Monolith that sent them there to work with and just reverse it, they're rebuilding the future version of that Monolith.
 * There is no need for three universes to have three versions of Fitz, as explained above, because there were two simultaneous Fitzes of different ages (a 30-year-old Fitz and a 104-year-old Fitz who was once the 30-year-old Fitz) around in 2018 when the timeline was split, therefore giving you two Fitzes in the new timeline, a 104-year-old who dies and a 30-year-old out in space no longer destined to become that 104-year-old. That's what happens in The End, essentially, "We lost our Fitz, but at least we have an old backup out there." And then they have to catch him up on what's happened since.

So I hope you'll see why I personally view this situation as: or
 * Go with what the show presents, a time loop that they manage to break
 * Try to fudge what the show presents quite a lot, so as to fit a different theory outside of what the show puts forward, with the only motive to go in this direction being to fit the way the comics rules work.

That's the way I perceive this, as I cannot see any other reason to want to try to make it not a time loop that's broken.

Again though, I greatly appreciate the time you have taken here, as it has allowed greater understanding and more informed conversation and points to be made.

ProBot1227 wrote: I'd Also like to add that Deke's multiverse theory was referenced again in S6, leading to the impression that the writers intend for that to be the reasoning. No one's disputing a multiverse. His comments about the multiverse are just like the Endgame comments about Back to the Future, it's establishing that you can't rewrite a singular timeline - they worry about Deke blinking out of existence if you can, but it turns out you can't, so Deke was right, you can split the timeline.