Thread:Marvelus/@comment-26838855-20190116120806/@comment-26838855-20190517021338

Past Dates, for CirUmeUela (me)
BEJT wrote: Sorry it took me a while. The other Ant-Man and the Wasp dates are now done and can be found here.

And if you check February 2009 and February 2017, the Cloak & Dagger: Season 1 events are up now. Forgot to add, check April 2006, the Luis jukebox mention is up as well, based on it being as early as possible (odd to have a jukebox as late as 2006) while fitting with every song on the machine (last release from the jukebox was late March 2006). I think you asked for that moment's placement before.

Multiverse (Elledy92, The Wikia Editor)
Elledy92 wrote: I'm not fond of this explanation. I'll explain why. Considering the Marvel Cinematic Universe only, as an Earth, and comparing it with the classic definition of universe of Marvel Comics, the Dimensions that we witnessed since Doctor Strange were all "different layers" of the same reality, which is Earth-199999 (or Earth-616, i guess).

However, if they are classifying different Earth, that means something that exist in a completely different reality with his own set of layers (to be more specific: the Astral Dimension that we saw on the Alternate 2012 in Endgame is not the same Astral Dimension of the main universe). So i don't think that two different realities could exist on the same reality. The only thing that will probably clear up this doubt is when they'll start considered the MCU as a Multiverse, not a simple Universe. I think The Wikia Editor was saying dimensions are layers of each reality, and 616 is the name of the Earth layer of the 199999 dimension. I'm not sure I entirely agree, but that was his explanation I think.

The Wikia Editor wrote: I don't think it will be much of a problem as long they don't dive too much into making distinctions between "Dimensions" and "Realities".

At the moment, we can safely designate Earth as being in Dimension 616 of Earth-199999, which is at least consistent with it being part of the same Multiverse as the comics. I don't know about safely designate. We'll see.

The Wikia Editor wrote: Yeah, I had the same thought. Although I hope they utilize it more creatively than what ultimately happened in The Flash, namely that they end up introducing villains who could just as have been from Earth-1. As is, it ended up going from "persons gets powers, becomes villain" to "person gets powers, becomes villain, travels to Earth-1", which isn't really creative given the potential of the concept.

Also, it would be pretty funny if Far From Home ends with Spider-Man confronting the villainous Mysterio from his own reality who, rather than a sorcerer, is just a guy using weaponized special effects like in the comics. Lol yeah, I mean The Flash every year just finds a new well to tap for villains so they're not all the same but... they're still pretty much all the same.

The Wikia Editor wrote: I think you misunderstood me, I agree with you. I wasn't saying that Mysterio's Earth is from a "different layer" of the same reality as the MCU Earth, I was just pointing out that what he said could be interpreted as him saying that the MCU Earth exists in a "layer" that's designated Dimension 616 in the reality designated Earth-199999. Meanwhile, Mysterio himself is from a different reality designated Earth-833. There we go, I understood then. It's an interesting idea though it might be a bit of a stretch.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 6 (Edward Zachary Sunrose)
Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: EXACTLY. In fact it's quite the opposite, the agents saving the world ALLOWED Thanos to do the Snap.

Thor knew exactly what the Tesseract was, and was still firmly under the impression that it was destroyed when Asgard was. Meaning the Mind Stone was likely destroyed when Graviton absorbed Quake and wrecked the planet, preventing Thanos from getting the full set and making the Snap happen. Since the world was completely lost by 2018, it's not like Thanos used the Time Stone to fix it and find the Mind Stone, either. Yeah it was kinda sad a year ago thinking about how, well... the agents in saving the world also doomed half of the universe. At least for 5 years. You can debate whether the suffering of the universe for the 5 years only to be set back to mostly how things were (though the suffering still happened) is a more desirable outcome than just losing Earth and 99% of humanity, permanently.

I'm not sure that the Earth's destruction would've got rid of the Mind Stone. The Tesseract would've been at the centre of the explosion, whereas Vision would just have been on the planet as it cracked. But who knows what happened with magma and all sorts. Maybe knowing he was going to die from the destruction of Earth, Wanda got rid of the Mind Stone just before so at least that was gone. All sorts of possibilities, but it doesn't seem that Thanos won in that timeline. Then again, part of our reasoning for that was that all the main characters who didn't die in the events of the destruction conveniently would've had to have survived the Snap. Well, now we know that maybe that has more weight to it than initially believed.

I know the Lighthouse timeline would then be a second timeline in which "we win", but there's several explanations for this:
 * 1) The agents change the timeline hours before Strange looks into the future, so it is not a possible future from that point when he looks.
 * 2) That timeline is closed off once they change it anyway, there's no making things go that way.
 * 3) Thanos might've won in that timeline anyway. By this point, I think that is an absolutely fair reason, but if someone were to want more reasons:
 * 4) Earth being destroyed and 99% of the population dying isn't exactly a "win" anyway.
 * 5) If for some reason they're still not convinced, Strange technically didn't look into infinite futures so there could be a second timeline where they won. But I don't like this because the implication was that this is the only feasible way things can go where they win, like any other wins if they existed would have to be really bizarre occurrences, and you don't need to get to this point to justify it.

This Scepter'd Isle (Ben 1,000,911, Marvelus, Mrmichaelt)
Ben 1,000,911 wrote: Hey do y'all think the Age of Ultron "This Scepter'd Isle" prelude is canon anymore? I don't think so. In Endgame the HYDRA guys say that they're taking the Scepter right to Dr. List, in May 2012, when in the prelude comic SHIELD has it until January 2014. Did the HYDRA guys change their minds? That wouldn't make sense to me That's an official canon comic. It's not like the inspired canon that's disposable, it's canon no matter what. And as I was watching I just assumed that List/Pierce manipulated things so it would be less suspicious. It's pretty suspicious for the S.T.R.I.K.E. team to take it and it just disappears.

Marvelus wrote: There is some leniency. The Scepter was intercepted by Fury and gave to the scientists from the comic. I thinl Fury mentioned something about the Scepter at the end of The Avengers. Or who knows. Marvel needs to know what they consider canon and work with it to make it fit. They should do a bit better, though this I think was them addressing a question I've seen quite often over the years from people online of "How did Hydra get the sceptre?" - for people who aren't hardcore enough fans to actually know about the comic.

Mrmichaelt wrote: Plus just because they added a new scene 7 years after, it isn't an end all. They don't show another scene confirming List is given the Scepter right after. Something and/or someone prevents Agent Sitwell and STRIKE from taking the Scepter to Dr. List in May 2012. Fury radios Sitwell from the Helicarrier. Agent Blake, who in Item 47, was also helping with the recovery of alien weapons so maybe he might have unknowingly meddled.

Pretty sure Fury was talking about the Tesseract at the end, not the Scepter. There's leniency, it's fine. It should take a lot to discard an official canon comic (the same way it should take a lot to discard an official canon novel, I don't get why it had been decided that The Cosmic Quest: Vol. 2 is being thrown out, yet inspired canon that contradicts canon like Nick Fury: Spies like Us and Iron Man: Will Online Evils Prevail? remain...).

Kevin Feige's AM(A)A (Mrmichaelt, Edward Zachary Sunrose, Marvelus, me, DaenerysTheMadKhal58, Elledy92)
Mrmichaelt wrote: Feige is doing a Reddit AMA today starting at 8 p.m. ET. Marvelus wrote: Someone ask him about The Defenders!! 😭 Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: You'd be surprised, a ton of the questions have been about the Netflix heroes. I just asked him point blank if all the shows were still canon or not. Marvelus wrote: Oh man. I am so so scared :(((( BEJT wrote: Yeah I've been waiting for the AM(A)A since I found out about it earlier. I'm wary of the comments just asking about canon and scared that if he did reply, he might use the "canon" term loosely and cause a disastrous knock-on effect.

But I like some of the high-up comments' wording:

"Hi, Kevin! Many fans have been feeling a bit nervous when it comes to Marvel Television's entries in the MCU. They feel that the existence of Marvel Studios' Disney+ shows mean these shows we've grown to love and care for over various years are no longer canon and no longer matter in the grand scheme of the MCU."

"Hi, on behalf of all the millions and millions of Marvel TV fans I would like to say thank you for the first time ever bringing a TV character into a movie with Jarvis from Agent Carter to Avengers: Endgame. This gives me a lot of hope for other TV characters to join the movies. As Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. also is a Disney property with ABC like Agent Carter I would very much like it if you could bring more characters like Quake (Daisy Johnson) into the movies."

"As a TV fan who would love some movie-side validation, is there any chance we see some two-way connectivity like we got in earlier seasons?

I understand the meme-verse went nuts over Howard the Duck but if he can make his way into the background in Endgame I am just surprised you guys didn't take the opportunity to take the significant chunk of your fans who absolutely love the hundreds of hours of TV content and give them a big win.

Having Robbie Reyes mixed in with the Sanctum Sorcerers would have not distracted any casual fans and at best might have reminded some folks that Ghost Rider is canon in the MCU and drive ratings to another Marvel owned property.

Sincerely, An obsessed TV fan"

I am glad that in the messages they're particularly emphasising their desperation for TV to be canon.

The highest TV-related message is more nerve-racking, more just asking yes or no. They say it's "debated" which I think is poor wording. Debated... because people ignore the official answer. Marvelus wrote: The first message you listed... I am very sure that is Edward's Mrmichaelt wrote: Oh, so looks like Feige doesn't come around until another half hour or so. Wow, that's a LOT of questions. No surprise. But still. Reddit doesn't put a cap on submissions I take it. BEJT wrote: He's answered several questions already. I'm refreshing his user page to see his new comments fairly frequently. See here. Mrmichaelt wrote: Thanks! I'm not familiar with the site at all. I don't use it that much. I find it a stressful place to look at. He said Jonathan Schwartz looks at the Marvel Studios Reddit though. Surprising to me, I would find looking at Reddit reacting to something you made would be quite tough.

Marvelus wrote: I am dying inside. Literally cannot wait for his answer. Please do not ignore it :( BEJT wrote: I'd rather he ignored it than said something disastrous. I think he'll probably ignore it. Mrmichaelt wrote: So far the big thing he revealed was there are plans to revisit the Ten Rings and introduce the real Mandarin. Maybe that could tie into how they're jumping around the timeline a little more. BEJT wrote: Yeah that was interesting.

He gave a facetious answer to the Russos vs. Markus/McFeely timeline question.

"Can you give us a definitive canon answer for this?"

"Yes." BEJT wrote: And it's over. We're safe. And hopefully he saw those comments. It was too big a question to answer flippantly in a Reddit AMA, I didn't think he would, I was only scared he would.

Other takeaways: DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: So yeah, he avoided every question about Marvel Television, and even gave a non-answer to the question about Cap's ending. About what I expected, to be honest.
 * Feige agrees with the Russos that Steve was always worthy and just being polite. I personally prefer the idea that keeping the secret from Tony was the last thing holding him back and after Civil War, now he's fully worthy. But that does mean he's quite audacious to believe he'll be able to lift it in Endgame, whereas the Feige/Russo explanation would mean he knew he could. And I guess also works better with Thor's "I knew it!"
 * They refer to the new version of Hulk as "Smart Hulk".
 * He likes to assume Martin Starr's two characters are both Professor Harrington. I hope one day it's confirmed that he's not Amadeus Cho.
 * People are thinking the Mandarin/Ten Rings might be for Shang-Chi.
 * He said he would like to bring back more characters that people think we've seen the last of, in response to a question about perhaps seeing Thunderbolt characters.
 * He kind of confirmed my feeling that the Disney+ shows are kind of replacing one-shots.

He said he considers Amadeus Cho and Mr. Harrington to be the same character, should we ignore that?

Edit: Pages were merged, I guess it doesn't contradict anything in the movies, and it's useful in case they ever decide to properly introduce Cho. I find this wiki's policies a bit odd. Sometimes you need super hard confirmation, and sometimes you just need a joke about Kevin Feige assuming it's the same person or James Gunn joking that he just made up on the spot that Laura Haddock's The First Avenger character is Meredith Quill's mother. There just seems to be inconsistency over level of confirmation needed for things. But in this case I'm not too bothered now that the slightly iffy idea of that being Amadeus Cho is thrown out.

BEJT wrote: Not really our problem. I don't think the way he phrased it is enough for confirmation so if I'm being consistent, because similar level comments I otherwise say I believe are not enough for canon, I would say that there shouldn't be a merging of the pages.

However, I also personally don't want that character to be Amadeus Cho so am not going to fight for no merging because I have no personal stake in that argument. Mrmichaelt wrote: That could be it.

Yeah, Betsy Ross is a big ? since she was never referenced again unlike Abomination. I hope to see Betty again one day. If General Ross, Red Skull, Alexander Pierce, and Jasper Sitwell, all characters I never expected to see again, can pop up, surely Betty can.

Marvelus wrote: Did he answer about the TV Shows from Marvel TV? :( BEJT wrote: No, that's what I was saying above. Marvelus wrote: How hard was for him to say: "I think Marvel TV has been doing a great job expanding the Marvel universe". You wouldn't think it would be that hard. But here we are.

Elledy92 wrote: My guess is the Mandarin is actually the father of MCU's Shang-Chi. That will work nicely (Shang-Chi's father in the comics is the criminal overlord Zheng Zu, and was previously identified as the pulp literarature villain Fu-Manchu when Marvel still had the comic book rights // The Mandarin was inspired by Fu-Manchu and has no known birth name).

There is still the issue to how to deal with the Chinese movie market... I've seen this theory, and I would like this. I thought they were pretty much done with the Ten Rings outside of Easter eggs, but it seems like they could do some interesting stuff with it in Shang-Chi.

Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Yes, it is. I got 3x gold lol

I wasn't expecting an answer since I asked him a point-blank yes or no, but still... He didn't answer anyone's questions about the TV side. Oh awesome! Didn't realise you were quite that big on the Reddit. I loved the wording of your message. I reckon Feige read it and I'm really glad if he did. When else do we ever have the opportunity to communicate with Kevin Feige? That's awesome if he did read your question because the wording is exactly how I would put it, to make sure he hears of how much it means to people.

Marvelus wrote: That frustrates me... As I said on the discussions, I'm fairly sure his opinion is, "I don't want to talk about them because it's always going to be, "You're not getting any crossover," and if I'm perfectly honest which I will never be out of politeness, naturally as an executive at this level I kind of wish the whole universe were under my control, but I can't actually say non-canon because it's not fair."

Logically/rationally thinking, he could never say they were non-canon because of course it's a terrible idea of a thing to say.

Just obviously when we're scared it can feel like there's a danger.

Captain Marvel (Mister Explicit)
Mister Explicit wrote: ...BTW I'm back. I'd just like to put my two cents on something that may have already been covered, idk. I'd check, but there is a considerable chunk of messages above that I don't have the time to read so I'll just get to the point.

I might have concrete dates on the timeline for Captain Marvel. I didn't do any of this research, other than a quick google search to see if this fact stands.

Basically I was scrolling through YouTube minding my own business, I noticed that someone made a Guiness World Record for watching Capt. Marvel 116 times (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAPJfJz9l3E). At one point in the video (1:14), he mentions that he predicted the timeline for the movie to be June 13, 1995 (as per the night just before the Battle at Mar-Vell's Laboratory. He says that he was one to see that the night at the farm took place on a full moon, and says that with his research, he concluded the 13th to be the only night in Louisiana with a full moon in June of 1995.

Maybe this is concrete evidence. Perhaps not. I'm unfamiliar with what your guidelines are, since this group I take is the brains behind organizing the Timeline. I'm well aware that irregularities for the Timeline as a whole are bound to come up, but I figure that this small fact should be taken into account and utmost consideration.

...maybe this has already been covered above. I didn't bother to check (since again, you know, too many messages). Just thought I'd let you guys know and perhaps share your thoughts. I was going to bring this up next time I did a big reply, but you beat me to it!

Yes, someone brought this up on the discussions feature, and I agree. The film can take place anywhere in June 1995, it doesn't really make a difference - the anachronisms are all things from like August-October 1995, so it's not like being in late June rather than mid-June means you fit a certain thing that would otherwise be an anachronism. I was leaning towards late June just to get it as close as possible to working with the anachronisms, but there isn't that much difference and this gives us an actual date.

I didn't clock that it was a full moon in the film, so I appreciate this (assuming it's correct). Funnily enough, the same day of my second viewing of Captain Marvel, just hours later I was rewatching Iron Man (films 1 and 2 in the rewatch pre-Endgame) and clocked the moon in that film, thinking "That's a bit of evidence I should put in when I get around to my major timeline project" (in that case it makes no difference because there's so much evidence for Iron Man that this is too minor, but just that it was the first time I'd thought about that).

Good to have you back, Mister Explicit.