Thread:Marvelus/@comment-26838855-20190116120806/@comment-26838855-20190128035652

The To-Do List (CirUmeUela)
CirUmeUela wrote: BEJT, that page sounds like a good idea, so we know who will be working on what. I'm assuming that most of the stuff we do is putting synopses of the events on the timeline pages? So once we have calculated dates from you for the events, we just write those up? That would be great yeah. Even without dates things can be written up with like a "Day 1" "Day 2" format like Marvelus did for Runaways: Season 2, so that it's ready for when there are dates. But yeah, I think that would be the best you guys can help, if you're OK with doing a little bit of that (any is a bonus so feel zero pressure). Basically just writing up the events of the episodes in bullet point form, reasonably succinctly (Marvelus is better at that than me). If you look for example at Runaways: Season 1 in late 2017 and The Punisher: Season 1 in late 2016 which we just finished posting, that sort of thing, but if possible a little bit briefer just because I'm not very good at being brief.

The Punisher: Season 2, and How It Affects Avengers: Infinity War (CirUmeUela, Marvelus, Rman823)
CirUmeUela wrote: I'll post my notes for Punisher season 2 here later today probably. Or maybe I'll just wait because you haven't seen it all yet BEJT. I should finish the season tomorrow I think, so if it's OK by you I would appreciate you holding off just a little longer (even if I've sadly had a major thing spoiled).

Marvelus wrote: BEJT wrote: Move Infinity War to June and place The Punisher in May. I like this option Yeah, I just don't know. For 6 months now, every time I think, "Agh, realistically, it just has to end up going to June," I then also think, "But there's just no way that works with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.." So every time now that I think option 1 might be best, I then tell myself no it's not. It's such a tricky decision. I then find myself leaning to option 3, but I don't like parts of that either. On the one hand, it avoids the tricky decision because the whole problem is that there's not enough evidence to go for one particular option (if there were more evidence decisively placing it I would feel more comfortable with making the necessary sacrifices either way). It also means that I don't end up doing a bunch of extra work (having to rework all the Infinity War timings all over again because of the new sunrise/sunset times (shouldn't take as long as the first time but still will take time), changing references, calculating Ragnarok again, recalculating the Asgardian ageing again, redoing the things related to Asgardian ageing, recalculating the Maximoffs' dates of birth because it impacts the calculation since Wanda is in Infinity War, changing people's articles to reflect this update... it's a lot) for nothing because we just have to change it all over again a couple of months later. On the other hand, no change is still making a decision - it still means that the 2018 page says March, implying that's still our decided stance. I don't particularly want to do option 2 because I don't like ignoring Loeb's comment and because we don't know if it's feasible, but then it's not like the release order should affect the timeline decisions, everything is equally valid just Endgame hasn't come out yet, which takes me back to option 3, waiting, but then, again, there's the problems with that option.

The best thing would be if we could just put all the Ant-Man and the Wasp, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and Infinity War stuff under the title "Spring" on the 2018 page until Endgame comes out, which would allow us to take option 3 without the problem of still definitively saying. But then we wouldn't be able to distinguish between days, because we won't have numbers for them, and then it will all be a massive lump under "Spring". Maybe "Wednesday 1", "Thursday 1", "Friday 1", "Saturday 1", "Sunday 1", "Monday 2", "Tuesday 2", etc.? Just temporarily? Agh I don't know...

The reason I've said Spring 2018 to people for months now is because Infinity War is between Wednesday, March 28th and Thursday, June 28th which is almost exactly the official span of spring. What is more apt is to say that Ant-Man and the Wasp is definitively Spring 2018 because Scott's sentence ends somewhere between Wednesday, March 21st and Wednesday, June 20th, pretty much exactly the official span of spring. I guess because late June for Infinity War is a strong possibility I shouldn't really say Spring 2018 because it's not just "anywhere in that range" it's "a few possible points in this range, including one strong one distinctly out of spring", but it's just been the easiest thing to say.

This has been constantly on my mind for 6 months. It's so tricky. I just wish Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. didn't have Yo-Yo still recovering or the problem of the rift reopening or the "months" line which really, really tie it to December 2017 (along with the other things mentioned before).

Rman823 wrote: BEJT, not sure where exactly in May you're deciding to place The Punisher Season 2. But, if we go by Ant-Man & The Wasp's April 30th computer date, I think some point in May could be another option for Infinity War.

Ant-Man & The Wasp would be Late April-Early May. The Punisher Season 2 would be May (perhaps there's some overlap with Ant-Man & The Wasp). The back end of A.O.S. Season 5 and Infinity War would somewhere in May after The Punisher Season 2 ends.

Right now do you have the entire season of The Punisher in May because if need be I think it could easily start in Late April? Well can't decide for sure yet because I haven't finished it, but it looks like there's a while between that May calendar and the end of the season, plus there's the "13" which doesn't look like it can work for June (as you pointed out, it seems to say Wednesday which would make it June - but I don't think it's possible that it's at least 13 days at that point since the bank robbery) but could be fudged a little as being May 13th. So it looks like at the very earliest, the season ends (I have 4 more episodes to go though so don't know how much time they span) in mid-to-late May, so Infinity War would be absolute earliest late May/early June.

I have it in my mind like there's three options for Infinity War: Wednesday, March 28th-Thursday, March 29th, Wednesday, May 9th-Thursday, May 10th, and Wednesday, June 27th-Thursday, June 28th. But you make a great point: actually, it's "there's three options for Ant-Man and the Wasp: Scott's sentence ending on Wednesday, March 21st, Wednesday, May 2nd/Thursday, May 3rd (depending on how the 4/30/2018 date is interpreted), and Wednesday, June 20th". And then Infinity War is just "at least a week after that, no later than June 28th due to Peter's school being in term". And yeah, we have it as 1 week later to get it as early as possible, but you're right, potentially Ant-Man and the Wasp could move to the April date and then the gap between it and Infinity War, even if it makes the fact that they still think they're under house arrest during Infinity War less plausible, could in fact be more like 4 weeks later in late May/early June, allowing The Punisher: Season 2 to slot in without pushing Infinity War all the way to that third and final possible placement in late June. But it does feel a bit like if it's being pushed right the way to 3 or 4 weeks before that option, it's almost like we should just take the June option at that point, since it works significantly better with Ant-Man and the Wasp.

Aggghhhhhh, I just want more evidence. I'm genuinely considering that "Spring" (or maybe "Spring/Summer") and "Monday 1", "Tuesday 1", etc. option to bide our time until Endgame. It might be the best option.

Marvelus wrote: You need to read his notes. I trust in him for the May placement. Thanks. Well I wasn't decisively saying the whole thing is in May, because I can't be decisive until I've finished and because I was more just referring to the bulk in the middle.

Marvelus wrote: @Rman823, mostly, the problem with June placement comes for Spider-Man: Far From Home, we know it will take place on July, we know it will begin minutes after Avengers: Endgame, it means there is not a big gap between AE and SFFH, either way, AIW and AE will get onto June 2018. Well that's not the problem with June 2018 (it would actually imply June 2018), and it's not the reason June 2018 has been suggested, that's Ant-Man and the Wasp. It's just something we've mentioned in discussion, but it doesn't factor in to any of our decisions yet because it's just guessing about a hypothetical.

Rman823 wrote: But we don’t know for certain how “minutes later” is handled. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some sort of time jump. Until Far From Home is released, we’re all just speculating anyway. Yeah I agree here, this is what I said before. We can't factor it into any decision-making at the moment other than to say "But we don't yet have all the information" because it's all guesswork about a hypothetical moment in a future film.

Marvelus wrote: Yeah, but we have Ant-Man and the Wasp evidence, which places Inifnity Ward and itself on June 2018, that is evidence. We kind of "speculate" sometimes when we don't have all things on the table, but in the aftermath we got it pretty right. Yeah that's the evidence. And sure we can speculate, but we just can't factor future speculation into any decisions/calculations.

Nick Fury (Steve993, CirUmeUela)
Steve993 wrote: I think this has been brought up and we really can't say anything until the movie comes out but one thing people have forgotten about regarding Fury in Captain Marvel is Winter Soldier. The initial assumption is he will lose the eye in Captain Marvel not to mention he seems to be in low rank.

But Winter Soldier through his friendship with Pierce indicates he was at least in combat rank and by the time we see them in that photo he still has the eye despite he looks more closer to his current day appearance. So when does all that take place?

Some people have also argued about whether he really knew Howard and are assuming it's a lie one of many he's told throughout the years.

But again we'll have to wait and see. Really as I've said before this and the flashback stuff for Ant-Man/Ant-Man and the Wasp make me want a prequel about them and also S.H.I.E.L.D. We had the opportunity with Agent Carter but sadly we didn't get far enough to tackle it. Yeah I joked with friends for a while about how everyone just assumes that because Fury has his eye, we will see how he loses it - because that's just the nature of prequel films, where every significant moment in a character's past happened to occur in the same week. But Samuel L. Jackson confirmed recently that we will see him lose his eye.

As for The Winter Soldier, that's one of the only films I'm not too knowledgeable on. Around Ant-Man was when I joined the wiki, so all the films prior to that were the ones where I wasn't involved in initially placing things. Phase One I went back and did a lot of thorough work on in 2017. Thor: The Dark World I rewatched before Ragnarok and happened to have the time to properly go through and check the time zones and everything for the 2013 page. But Iron Man 3, The Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Age of Ultron are the only four films where, while I know about the evidence in those films pertaining to their placement in present day and pertaining to major events, and I'm aware of there being things like that photo with Pierce, those four films are the ones where I have never actually checked that the wiki has it right in terms of time zones and how many days pass and learning the film's timeline details like the back of my hand. I don't know, I just never got around to doing that for those films. So right now, without having the time to check, I couldn't tell you my thoughts on the whole Pierce thing.

I don't see why Fury knowing Howard would have to be a lie, although I guess if he was still in a desk job 4 years after Howard died then maybe he didn't know Howard as well as he claims to in Iron Man 2.

CirUmeUela wrote: That is a good point. I was rewatching Winter Soldier yesterday and was wondering the same thing. I wonder when exactly Pierce promoted Fury and does he mean he promoted Fury to Director of SHIELD? What exactly was Pierce's position within SHIELD? I know that he was the secretary of the World Security Council, but was he secretary at the time he met Fury? It's all a little confusing and I'm not sure how it's all gonna fit together when Captain Marvel comes out.

Edit: I just checked the timeline pages and the Bogota incident where Fury saved Pierce's daughter isn't even on them, so it seems we don't have an estimated date for that on the wiki. I guess it was probably before the events of Captain Marvel and he was promoted to Director after Captain Marvel's events, or Pierce simply promoted him to a different position. Not sure how he was able to promote him, was he even a part of SHIELD? He said he worked for the "state department", whatever that means. As I've just mentioned, yeah, I haven't done thorough work on The Winter Soldier and so never placed that stuff, and I guess no one before my time placed it either. Will probably revisit that in March I guess.

I think Pierce is sort of like a chairman/governor-type thing for S.H.I.E.L.D.. He's not an actual member but he oversees them, he had the same alpha clearance as Fury in The Winter Soldier.