Thread:Elledy92/@comment-26838855-20190425183005/@comment-26838855-20190430210839

Teen Titans Forever! wrote: When Banner said "erase" he meant the dark effects on the timelines would never occur (or that's what I think he meant)

My main criticism of the movie is that they don't take much time on explaining their version of time travel. When I first watched the film I was like "Please slow down movie your time travel rules are different from most movies so you might not want to make your audience confused".

I love the movie but at first watched I had serious questions and that's a issue. "The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one of the stones and that flow splits. Now this may benefit your reality, but my new one, not so much. In this new branch of reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world would be overrun, millions will suffer. So tell me doctor, can your science prevent all that?" "No... we can erase it. Because once we're done with the stones, we can return each one to its own timeline at the moment it was taken, so chronologically, in that reality, it never left."

Banner specifies in response to "Can your science prevent all that?" that "no", specifying "erase" as different. The dark effects thing would just be preventing.

Unfortunately, with this new development, the time travel isn't actually that different from the Butterfly Effect, just instead of living in the newly corrected timeline, you are stuck returning to your original timeline, so are not changing the future you want to.

It makes slightly more sense (people returning to the new future never makes sense because does that mean that in that future, they also sent the heroes back in time? Why, if things are OK? And then where did those heroes go? You should end up with two versions of each hero in that timeline - a problem I've always wondered whenever The Flash does time travel), but it's not as unique as they acted like it was, which is a real shame.

DaenerysTheMadKhal58 wrote: Kinda annoying the Russos decided to go that route since it's the one that needs more explanations, and the movie didn't really care to explain.

So it's basically what happens in Star Trek (2009), the Narada goes back in time from 2387 to 2233 creating a new reality, and everything that happened after that was different. Except in Star Trek no one goes back to the original timeline.

Cap must be off his shits, not only did he leave all his friends in the present to go back to the past, but then left all his friends in the alternate timeline to go back to the original one. Just so he could give a shield...

I'm imagining Steve being publicly alive in the alternate timeline and then he's found in the ice and everyone is like "what?"

Also, imagine everyone wondering why Cap is suddenly an old man. Wish they had just killed him, what a mess. Yeah well it's like most timeline-changing films, just you that you can't go to the new future when you return. I guess their implication is that films like Back to the Future don't act like there's branching timelines but literally just like you're rewriting the one singular timeline, but I've always read any butterfly effect stuff as creating a new timeline anyway because, as they say, you can't literally rewrite a timeline.

Yeah this is a mess. It worked a lot better as just one timeline.

Teen Titans Forever! wrote: They have to mention it on the film's commentary. Agreed.

Elledy92 wrote: Not, rrally, is the one who need it less. The only thing we don't know is how Cap jumped in his old reality from the new one he lived. But we know he did. Depends how you look at it. This raises more questions in that the answers are not in the film itself. If it were one timeline, while some people might ask the whole "Why didn't Steve interfere?" thing (which was never a problem to me), all the logic answers are present, just maybe not the more personal questions about Steve. Here I guess the more personal questions are dealt with, but not the logic. Logic mattered more to me.

Thank you for engaging in good conversation for the past few days. You were right all along about the Russos' intention, but I hope I'm allowed to say I wasn't wrong? What I've been arguing for I still feel is the explanation most fitting with the film, and I personally think it's a shame the Russos' intention was not put forth correctly in the film, and that their explanation involves an unexplained element. I don't regret what I said and still stand by that that was the logical explanation from the information we had - just wish they'd given us this sooner.

MJLogan95 wrote: Q: Did Captain America's action at the end affect the timeline? Does that mean there was a time where two CA existed in a same universe?

A: To me, CA's action in the end wasn't the fact he wanted to change anything, it's more like me has made a choice. He chose to go back to past and lived with the one he loved for the rest of his life. The time travel in this movie created an alternate reality. He lived a completely different life in that world. We don't know how exactly his life turned out, but I'd like to believe he still helped many others when they were needed in that world. Yes, there were two CA in that reality, it's just like what Hulk said, what happened in the past has already happened. If you go back to past, you simply created a new reality. The characters in this movie created new timeline when they went back to the past, but it had no effect to the prime universe. What happened in the past 22 movies was still canon. https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/bj0it4/joe_russos_qa_about_the_plot_of_avengers_endgame/ Yeah thanks, I saw that online. Further confirmation.

CirUmeUela wrote: Yeah, I was just about to post that as well MJLogan95. They also confirm that Steve had to jump back to the prime universe to give Sam the shield. This makes a lot more sense now to me and means there were not two Steves in the prime universe, but there were two Steves in the alternate universe that Steve grew old in.

Q: EG's plot, is it a parallel universe or a closed time loop?

''A: Nope, not a time loop. Both Ancient One and Hulk were right. You can't change the future by simply going back to past. But it's possible to create a different alternate future. It's not butterfly effect. Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline. For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam.''

Now they just need to answer if a bunch of alternate timelines were created or if they were definitely undone. Is there a timeline with Loki running around with the space stone and Hydra thinking Captain America is one of them? Is there a timeline where Thanos and his army disappeared in 2014 to never return and the Guardians never met? It seems like that might be the case. Since the Russos answered those questions, I'm sure they will answer these questions as well. Yeah, also saw this. I mean, it pretty much is the Butterfly Effect, just like I said, I think they're going by the definition of the Butterfly Effect as simply rewriting the singular timeline, not creating a new one - and also ending up in that new future when you travel "back" to the future, when you should, they are right in saying, return to the timeline you left from.

This is a shame, I really liked what I thought they'd done with time travel here - how creative and unique it was, and pretty scientific if Infinity Stones are the only way to change time seeing as they are of course an exception to science. But if all time travel ca change time then that's not particularly scientific - only slightly more, with the way the timelines work, than the standard Butterfly Effect.

I'll be very disappointed if they also say those timelines were not cut off. Because that means it's especially not unique, and also that one of the film's important explanation scenes is even more poorly worded.

MJLogan95 wrote: Yeah, there is. The Gamora that's running around right now is from that timeline. That timeline exists in some fashion, and Thanos, Nebula, his army, and Gamora came from it. Whether it then got cut-off/erased, or just unfolded indefinitely, is still undetermined. But at this rate, with the Ancient One scene already not meaning what the dialogue implied, I would't be surprised if they go and say they unfolded indefinitely as well.

Teen Titans Forever! wrote: Now that we're understanding more and more what happened the dialogue makes more sense. Not at all. Now we know their intention, it means the dialogue in the film is actually not clear at all in presenting what they meant to. If it had been what I was suggesting, it would match the dialogue.